Yes that appears to be the corrupt part. Instead of compelling them to Christ, he's satisfying them with a good conscious.
Pope Francis assures atheists: You don’t have to believe in God to go to heaven
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Yes that appears to be the corrupt part. Instead of compelling them to Christ, he's satisfying them with a good conscious.
'But without faith it is impossible to please Him:
for he that cometh to God must believe that He is,
and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him.'
(Heb 11:6)
Hello @Devin Wintch,
I checked on-line, and it is pronounced to be a fiction. Stating (quote):-
- Pope Francis Says Atheists Go to Heaven – Fiction! Summary of e-Rumor: Pope Francis said the traditional notion of God is outdated and it’s not necessary to believe in god to be a good person. The Truth: There’s no record of Pope Francis saying that the church is outdated, or that you don’t have to believe in god to be a good person.
'The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into His hand.
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life:
and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life;
but the wrath of God abideth on him.'
(John 3:35-36)
* It is not a matter of heaven or hell, but of life or death.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
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Well it's true according to several sources, including the National Catholic Reporter: Pope Francis' outreach to atheists not as controversial as it seems
It sounds like you might have found a different story altogether.
But it's been my understanding that the opposite of eternal life is the second death or the lake of fire.
'For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law:
and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
(For not the hearers of the law are just before God,
but the doers of the law shall be justified.
For when the Gentiles, which have not the law,
do by nature the things contained in the law,
these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts,
their conscience also bearing witness,
and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another )
In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ
according to my gospel.'
(Romans 2:12-16)
Hello @Philip James,
I agree that we are not to judge those that are 'without' (1 Corinthians 5:12-13 ), for it is God who will judge them, and that justly, because He knows their heart. However does not this portion of Scripture in Romans 2:14-16, speak concerning those who have NOT heard the gospel of the grace of God? Who when they stand before God on the day that He will judge the secrets of men's hearts He will judge on the basis described there.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
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Hello @Devin Wintch,
I will not derail your thread by entering into a discussion on the second death or the lake of fire, but stand by my statement that it is not a matter of Heaven or Hell as a destination on the day of judgement, but of life or death, for that is what is at stake.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Thanks for not derailing the thread, that seems to happen a lot in some of the threads.
But in defense of the Pope, I find an Islam and Judaic teaching about different heavens, and it mingles with Biblical teachings. It is that there are different degrees of heaven.
Deuteronomy 10:14
14 Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the Lord's thy God, the earth also, with all that therein is.
1 Kings 8:27
27 But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded?
And Paul taught of a third heaven:
2 Corinthians 12:2
2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
And if there are multiple degrees of heaven, then perhaps there is salvation for lesser righteous or something along those lines.
'I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago,
(whether in the body, I cannot tell;
or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth )
such an one caught up to the third heaven.
And I knew such a man,
(whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth )
How that he was caught up into paradise,
and heard unspeakable words,
which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
Of such an one will I glory:
yet of myself I will not glory,
but in mine infirmities.'
(2Corinthians 12:2-5)
Hello Devin,
With Paul I must say, 'God knoweth'. It is not for me to speculate where He remains silent. Moses said to the children of Israel:-
'The secret things belong unto the LORD our God:
but those things which are revealed
belong unto us and to our children for ever,
that we may do all the words of this law.'
(Deuteronomy 29:29)
but those things which are revealed
belong unto us and to our children for ever,
that we may do all the words of this law.'
(Deuteronomy 29:29)
* Ephesians 4:10 speaks of, 'all heavens' in connection with the Lord's ascension.
* There seem to be at least three parts of heaven itself. There are also three heavens in time, 1) the heavens that were of old' (2 Peter 3:5); 2) the heavens and the earth that are now (2 Peter 3:7); and 3) a new heavens and a new earth which are yet to be created (2 Peter 3:13 ).
* The Church which is the Body of Christ has a hope which is to be realized in heavenly places in Christ Jesus; and is, in God's sight, already sitting (spiritually) in Christ Jesus at God's right hand, far above all heavens.
Praise God!
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
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Ziggy
Well-Known Member
I don't know.
You think Jesus made a long distance journey to earth to just say, Hey, you don't need to believe in me, just do the right thing?
You think going through 3 and a half years of humilty and attacks was worth people just doing the right thing?
And I don't mean You I mean I'm thinking out loud in general.
You think sending all those prophets over thousands of years to tell us..no warn us what was coming, just so we do the right thing?
I mean anyone can just do the right thing.
But if that right thing don't include asking for forgiveness,
And you have to be asking it from someone greater than yourself..
Then you have to believe in the one your asking forgiveness from.
I don't think you get a pardon unless you plead to the Judge.
If you don't believe there is a judge, then how can the pardon stand????
I don't know,
whaddaya think?
Speaking of Judges..
Amy got confirmed last night for the Supreme Court!
What an awesome day!!
HUGS
You think Jesus made a long distance journey to earth to just say, Hey, you don't need to believe in me, just do the right thing?
You think going through 3 and a half years of humilty and attacks was worth people just doing the right thing?
And I don't mean You I mean I'm thinking out loud in general.
You think sending all those prophets over thousands of years to tell us..no warn us what was coming, just so we do the right thing?
I mean anyone can just do the right thing.
But if that right thing don't include asking for forgiveness,
And you have to be asking it from someone greater than yourself..
Then you have to believe in the one your asking forgiveness from.
I don't think you get a pardon unless you plead to the Judge.
If you don't believe there is a judge, then how can the pardon stand????
I don't know,
whaddaya think?
Speaking of Judges..
Amy got confirmed last night for the Supreme Court!
What an awesome day!!
HUGS
Coming from someone who thinks fallen angels should be forgiven, I'm not at all surprised. Enoch interceded on behalf of the Watchers but God said no. There is no reason why "aliens" should be baptized.
The RCC is built on a faulty foundation, aka sin. Everything built on it is out of plumb, thus making it out of line with God's word. Truth. But we live in a world that thinks hard truth is evil. Shalom.
Some people can't look at the hard truth, because of fear of their beliefs being shaken.
"At that time His voice shook the earth, but now He has promised, "Once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens."
I once had a faulty foundation for my soul. God dealt with it. He shook me until only that which was of Him remained.
The foundation laid by the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus being the chief cornerstone, is to be laid in the heart of every new believer through the God-given revelation that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God.
So whether you are with RCC or it's many daughters, God's truth remains.
I hate dead religion in all its ugly manifestations because it keeps the children of Yahweh from their rightful inheritance. Which is Christ in us through repentance and the practice of the daily cross (death to self).
Whether one is in the RCC or another related group, the truth remains the same: Jesus is the Messiah of mankind, the Son of the Living God, as put forth in John 3:16. Confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead and you will be saved.
Saying that one will be shown mercy by God if they follow their conscience is speaking by the spirit of antiChrist. The question here is, do you have eyes to see this? Shalom.
I would think the sin would be delivering Atheists into the worship of false gods, but yes I see some evil in it. But also encouraging to be good people is not the worst evil in the world. So it's quite a twisted statement. But that's not entirely what the Pope said, he said: "God’s mercy has no limits if you go to him with a sincere and contrite heart". So he's side-winding the question and also encouraging them to seek God.
Philip James
Well-Known Member
Hello charity,
I would think so, yes. And does not Jesus tell us His standard in Matt 25: 31-46 ?
Love! Not some squishy feeling but laying down ones life to serve those around us...
As John says ' all who love are born of God'
And Paul warns us 'if I have faith to move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing...
Further, I would suggest that those who know (or claim to know!) Jesus, will be held to a higher standard, for:
'to him who has been given much, much will be expected'
And:
'its a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God'
Peace be with you!
Jesus,
For the sake of your sorrowful passion,
Have mercy on us, and on the whole world!
This is totally misleading. See Mark 16:15,16.
And He [Christ] said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the Gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Romans 1:19-20 (NKJV)
19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
Mike Waters
Well-Known Member
Work out your own salvation with awe and trembling.
Sufficient to the objective is the complexity thereof, without trying to work out the salvation of others.
Sufficient to the objective is the complexity thereof, without trying to work out the salvation of others.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Too bad we can't have a moratorium on Catholic bashing, along with threads protecting Trump
It is "Pope Francis bashing" and rightly so. He is a traitor to the Catholic Church and to Christianity, but you have no objection to his treason. Every time he opens his mouth publicly, he puts his foot in it. That is shameful for one who claims to be a pope.
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