POPE'S OFFICE IN THE BIBLE

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epostle1

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Bibliocentrist said:
So the sfmd question is what are the "keys of the kingdom of the heavens" (and/or what is the "key of (the house of) David", &/or the key of knowledge (&/or the keys of death & hades))?
"Keys" are a metaphor for authority most of the time. See my opening post for the usage of "keys" for authority.

I accept that the evidence does seem that Peter/Cephas was the rock/stone. What evidence is there linking Peter and Rome/Papacy though?
Jesus certainly did not plan for the inflated and corrupt popes of the popular imagination. He intended to found a church, but the church was not democratic in structure. It was established with clear individual leadership. In Matthew 16.18-19 Jesus says to Simon Peter, “You are Peter, and on this Rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hell will not overcome it.” So, Jesus established his church not on a congregational model, but on the model of personal leadership.

Was this a monarchical papacy? In a way it was. In Matthew 16 Jesus goes on to say to Peter, “I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” This is a direct reference back to Isaiah 22.22, where the prophet recognizes Eliakim as the steward of the royal House of David. The steward was the Prime Minister of the Kingdom. The keys of the kingdom were the sign of his personal authority delegated by the king himself.

Jesus never intended a monarchical papacy in the corrupt sense of the Pope being an absolute worldly monarch, but the church leadership Jesus intended was ‘monarchical’ in the sense that it was based on his authority as King of Kings.

The reference to Isaiah 22 shows that the structure of Jesus’ kingdom was modeled on King David’s dynastic court. (not AT&T, not Microsoft) In Luke 1.32-33 Jesus’ birth is announced in royal terms. He will inherit the throne of his father David. He will rule over the house of Jacob and his kingdom shall never end. Like Eliakim, to whom Jesus refers, Peter is to be the appointed authority in this court, and as such his role is that of steward and ruler in the absence of the High King, the scion of the House of David. That Peter assumes this pre-eminent role of leadership in the early church is attested to throughout the New Testament from his first place in the list of the apostles, to his dynamic preaching on the day of Pentecost, his decision making at the Council of Jerusalem and the deference shown to him by St Paul and the other apostles.

Did Jesus plan the monarchical papacy? He did not plan for the sometimes corrupt, venal and worldly papacy that it has sometimes become down through history, but Jesus did plan for one man to be his royal delegate on earth. He did plan for one man to lead the others (Lk.22.32) He did plan for one man to take up the spiritual and temporal leadership of his church. This is shown not only through the famous passage from Matthew 16, but also in the final chapter of John’s gospel where Jesus the Good Shepherd hands his pastoral role over to Peter.

Was the early church de-centralized?

Independent Evangelical churches follow the Baptist Successionist idea that the early church was de-centralized. They like to imagine that the early Christians met in their homes for Bible study and prayer, and that in this pure form they existed independently of any central authority. It is easy to imagine that long ago in the ancient world transportation and communication was rare and difficult and that no form of centralized church authority could have existed even if it was desirable.

The most straightforward reading of the Acts of the Apostles shows this to be untrue, and a further reading of early church documents shows this to be no more than a back-projected invention...

...After the martyrdom of James the leadership shifts to Peter and Paul. The authority is not centered on Jerusalem, but through their epistles to the various churches, we see a centralized authority that is vested in Peter and Paul as apostles. This central authority was very soon focused on Rome, so that St Ignatius, a bishop of the church in Antioch would write to the Romans in the year 108 affirming that their church was the one that had the “superior place in love among the churches.’”

Historian Eamon Duffy suggests that the earliest leadership in the Roman church may have been more conciliar than monarchical because in his letter to the Corinthians, Clement of Rome doesn’t write as the Bishop of Rome, but even if this is so Duffy confirms that the early church believed Clement was the fourth Bishop of Rome and read Clement’s letter as support for centralized Roman authority. He also concedes that by the time of Irenaeus in the mid second century the centralizing role of the Bishop of Rome was already well established. From then on, citation after citation from the apostolic Fathers can be compiled to show that the whole church from Gaul to North Africa and from Syria to Spain affirm the primacy of the Bishop of Rome as the successor of Peter and Paul.
read more here

List of Popes:
  1. St. Peter (32-67)
  2. St. Linus (67-76)
  3. St. Anacletus (Cletus) (76-88)
  4. St. Clement I (88-97)
  5. St. Evaristus (97-105)...
...262..Paul VI (1963-78)
263. John Paul I (1978)
264. St. John Paul II (1978-2005)
265. Benedict XVI (2005-2013)
266. Francis (2013—)
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12272b.htm

Though the first gentiles were through Peter, "Peter was to Jews, Paul to gentiles". Was the "Babylon" that Peter's letter was to Babylon or Rome?

1 Peter 5:13 - Some Protestants argue against the Papacy by trying to prove Peter was never in Rome. First, this argument is irrelevant to whether Jesus instituted the Papacy. Secondly, this verse demonstrates that Peter was in fact in pagan Rome. Peter writes from "Babylon" which was a code name for Rome during these days of persecution. See, for example, Rev. 14:8, Rev. 16:19, Rev.17:5, Rev.18:2,10,21, which show that "Babylon" meant Rome. Rome was the "great city" of the New Testament period. Because Rome during this age was considered the center of the world, the Lord wanted His Church to be established in Rome.

"Through envy and jealousy, the greatest and most righteous pillars [of the Church] have been persecuted and put to death. Let us set before our eyes the illustrious apostles. Peter, through unrighteous envy, endured not one or two, but numerous labours and when he had at length suffered martyrdom, departed to the place of glory due to him."
Clement of Rome, The First Epistle of Clement, 5 (c. A.D. 96).

"I do not, as Peter and Paul, issue commandments unto you."
Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Romans, 4 (c. A.D. 110).

'You have thus by such an admonition bound together the plantings of Peter and Paul at Rome and Corinth."
Dionysius of Corinth, Epistle to Pope Soter, fragment in Eusebius' Church History, II:25 (c. A.D. 178).

"Matthew also issued a written Gospel among the Hebrews in their own dialect, while Peter and Paul were preaching at Rome, and laying the foundations of the Church."
Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 3:1:1 (c. A.D. 180).

Is the rock connected with Tarshish? Matthew ("Levi") (in which the Peter verse is) was "to Jews", Mark (Peter/Paul) "to Romans", Luke (Paul) "to Greeks" (John "to world"). Cephas is Aramaic, Peter is Greek. Could cephas be related to cephalic (golgotha/calvary)? The shet(iyah) foundation stone of the world in Jerusalem?? 3 types ( https://senatorspark.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/3-types-3.jpg)?

Kepha is Aramaic, Cephas is Greek.

Retrobyter's post yet again shows the importance of original languages meanings of words. Could the geode actually be the Earth?


I don't think I understand your question. Matt. 16:13 - from a geographical perspective, Jesus renames Simon to rock in Caesarea Philippi near a massive rock formation on which Herod built a temple to Caesar. Jesus chose this setting to further emphasize that Peter was indeed the rock on which the Church would be built.
 

Bibliocentrist

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I have spent over 12 hours researching/studying to try find out what the history of Peter, Rome, and the Church are. (Peter could be connected with any of 7 places: Babylon, Jerusalem, Joppa, Antioch, Bithynia, Rome, the metropolis of Padarn.) It seems that "Babylon" of 1 Peter 5 is either Babylon or Rome, and it looks like it may be Babylon not Rome. My tentative provisional finding is that the first 3 churches in Revelation 2-3 went Babylon -> Bithynia -> Rome. This makes sense because it mirrors the history of B.C. religions/mythologies all coming from Sumer/Babel; and so does the christian/catholic church; so Babel is the mother of all harlots. "Ephesus" the shrine of Divine-Mother may connect with Eridu the shrine of the mother & child (and some like Rohl believe Babel was Eridu).

Tentative identification of the 7 churches:

1 Ephesus ~ Babylon/Seleucia/Ctesiphon (Peter)?
2 Smyrna ~ Nikomedia (Diocletian)?
3 Pergamum ~ Rome (Telemachus)
4 Thyatira ~ Constantinople??
5 Sardis ~ reformation?
6 Philadelphia ~ Puritan
7 Laodicea ~ modern western chruch(es).

My list of considered candidates for each of the 7 churches:


7 Churches / 7 candlesticks [1 Menorah? / 7 Menorahs (x7 = 49)?] (in an arc [or a circle maybe?]) (between things seen, things that are, and things that shall be)
~ 7 ecumenical councils? 7 patriarchates (artashat, seleucia-ctesiphon, antioch, jeru, alex, const, rome)? 7 continents? 7 church ages? 7x7 candlesticks/pipes Zechariah? Pentecost/jubilee 50/49 (7x7)? 7 hills Rome? 7 fishes, & 7 baskets of pieces left over from feeding 4000? 7 churches Paul wrote to? Europe is peninsula of (Eur(o)(-))Asia? 7 shepherds & 8 princes Micah 5? 7 sacraments?

1st Ephesus ("desirable / overseer", gateway, east, oldest, seaport, Asia, proconsul, Divine-Mother/Artemis/Diana) ~
Eve/woman? Semiramis? Esther? essenes? Isis? virgo? Babalon/Eridu?* pharos? Cybele? early/apostolic church? Ephesians? Ephesus 193? Ephesus/Mary Mother of God 431/1965? Epiphany? Ebionite? Edessa? Ctesiphon?

* Nicolaus (1st/Ephesus, 3rd/Pergamum)
~ Anacletus/Cletus? Anicetus? Victor (nika)? Callistus (Matt 16)? Novatian? Melchiades? Nicomedia? council of Nicea 325? Antioch (Peter/264/346)? Laodicea 364? St Nicholas 4th cent? Gnostic Nicolaites? Diotrephes? priests/laymen 500? Latin 600?

* synagogue of Satan "who say they are jews and are not" (2nd/Smyrna, 6th/Philadelphia)
~ replacement theology? BI? Masonry? Khazars? rabbinic? Cabalist? Talmudist? Jamnia? Mormons (Lamanites)? Ratana? gnostics? Nennius? holy grail? Synod of Whitby? Setian Gnostics? Calanians?

2 Smyrna ("myrrh/Myrrha", seaport, free civic life, imperial cult)
~ Lugdunum? Jamnia? James? Simon? Simony? Syria 346? Arminium 361? Ancyra 314? Neocaesarea 314? Myra (St Nicholas 4th cent)? Sara? Mary Mother of God Ephesus 431? Mary 600/1854/1950/1965? Maria 1508/1593? Nicomedia? Sirmium?

10 days tribulation (2nd/Smyrna)
~ 10 yrs Diocletian persecution 303-313 (St Alban)? 10 persecutions to 313?

3rd Pergamos/Pergamum ("tower/heights", to/from, emperor worship, Satan's seat/throne)
~ Rome/"Babylon"/Amor/Catholic/Papacy? hiera? marriage? Pisa? Pelagian? Purgatory 593/1439? Barlaam? Parma?

Antipas ("like the father", faithful, witness/martyr, died in midst/among, in satan's seat) (3rd/Pergamum/Pergamos "tower")
~ Telemachus/Almachus (died in coloseum in Rome, ca 400)?* Anastasius 399-401?* antipope? Anterus 235? Alban/Aaron? [Amphibalus]? most popes upto Eusebius c 310 were martyred? Sant iago? Antioch 264/346? Athanasius? 2 witnesses?
{john Baptist? jesus? james Zebedee? stephen? james just? peter (Upsidedown)? andrew (X)? timothy? justin martyr? ursula (& virgins)? sebastian (arrows)? edward the martyr (st edmunds)? joan of arc? thomas More? rasputin?}

* Balaam (3rd/Pergamum)
~ Merlin? Simon Magus? Amphibalus? Berosus/Bel? Valencia? Barlaam/Bilawhar/Balauhar/Balahvar & Josaphat/Joasaph/YuzAsaf/Yud(h)asaf/Bfidisaf/Buddsaf (2nd-4th cent/7th cent/8th cent/1028/1048/10th cent/11th cent/12th cent/17th cent)? Lama/Blama? flamen? brahmin? Alamut? Baphomet?

* Nicolaus/Nicolatians (1st/Ephesus, 3rd/Pergamum)
~ Anacletus/Cletus? Anicetus? Victor 198 (nika)? Callistus (Matt 16)? Novatian? Melchiades? council of Nicea? Ghibelline? inquisition? victory 569? St Nicholas/Santa Claus? Laodicea 364? Niccolo Machiaveli? laymen forbidden 1229/1414? Ignatius?

4th Thyatira ("incense", northern Lydia, borders, valley of Meander, wool/dyed fabrics/dye, orichalc feet)
~ Byzantium/Constantinople (silk)? Phoenicia? frankincense? Avignon? Chalcedon 451/754?

Jezebel (idols, 4th/Thyatira)
~ Theodora 530 (icons)?* Irene 800 (icons)? Helena 328? pope Joan 854? Theodora 10th cent? Marozia 928? Medici 1519? Guglielma? Manfreda 1300? Lucretia Borgia 1500? Catherine Benincasa? Theodora 1050? the harlot Babalon? Isabel (Spain, 1483)?* Isabelle (Jerusalem 1200)?

Plague (4th/Thyatira)
~ epidemic/plague betw 590-604? black death/epidemic/bubonic plague 1347/14thC-15thC-18thC? plague of poverty c 530s? run of bad harvests, famines, epidemics & mortality 1315-1319?

5th Sardis (red? regained importance)
~ Renaissance/Medici? Reformation?

book of life (5th/Sardis)
~ bible (tyndale, gutenberg, k james)? bible forbidden 1229? Apocrypha 1546?

6th Philadelphian ("brotherly love", descs of Macedonians, ancestral bravery & self-reliance, whole earth)
~ Colonial/Puritan? Booth? Sixtus/Sistine 1593? pastor helping me with water?

synagogue of Satan (2nd/Smyrna, 6th/Philadelphia)
~ replacement theology (church replace israel)? British Israel/Christian identity (Lost tribes)? Masonry? Khazars? rabbinic? Cabalist? Talmudist? Jamnia? Mormons? Ratana? gnostics? Nennius? Jehovah's Witness (144000)? Zionism? Zog/Jog? protocols of Zion? Marx?

7th/last Laodicea(ns) (laos "people" + dike "justice", god of medicine, eyesalve, manufacturing & commercial centre, large jewish popn, Jesus on outside, lukewarm, throne, "rich")
~ modern western church(es) (creationists, many churches/demoninamtions/sects, democracy/republic, medication, japhethite, judgment day, corporatism/free-trade/economy, tubal & meshech)? Laodicea 364? 7th Day Adventists?
 

epostle1

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Bibliocentrist said:
I have spent over 12 hours researching/studying to try find out what the history of Peter, Rome, and the Church are. (Peter could be connected with any of 7 places: Babylon, Jerusalem, Joppa, Antioch, Bithynia, Rome, the metropolis of Padarn.) It seems that "Babylon" of 1 Peter 5 is either Babylon or Rome, and it looks like it may be Babylon not Rome. My tentative provisional finding is that the first 3 churches in Revelation 2-3 went Babylon -> Bithynia -> Rome. This makes sense because it mirrors the history of B.C. religions/mythologies all coming from Sumer/Babel; and so does the christian/catholic church; so Babel is the mother of all harlots. "Ephesus" the shrine of Divine-Mother may connect with Eridu the shrine of the mother & child (and some like Rohl believe Babel was Eridu).
If few Fundamentalists know the history of their religion—which distressingly few do—even fewer have an appreciation of the history of the Catholic Church. They become easy prey for purveyors of fanciful "histories" that claim to account for the origin and advance of Catholicism.
Anti-Catholics often suggest that Catholicism did not exist prior to the Edict of Milan, which was issued in 313 AD and made Christianity legal in the Roman Empire. With this, pagan influences began to contaminate the previously untainted Christian Church. In no time, various inventions adopted from paganism began to replace the gospel that had been once for all delivered to the saints. At least, that is the theory.
Pagan Influence Fallacy
Opponents of the Church often attempt to discredit Catholicism by attempting to show similarities between it and the beliefs or practices of ancient paganism. This fallacy is frequently committed by Fundamentalists against Catholics, by Seventh-day Adventists, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, and others against both Protestants and Catholics, and by atheists and skeptics against both Christians and Jews.
read more here
Tentative identification of the 7 churches:

1 Ephesus ~ Babylon/Seleucia/Ctesiphon (Peter)?
2 Smyrna ~ Nikomedia (Diocletian)?
3 Pergamum ~ Rome (Telemachus)
4 Thyatira ~ Constantinople??
5 Sardis ~ reformation?
6 Philadelphia ~ Puritan
7 Laodicea ~ modern western chruch(es).

My list of considered candidates for each of the 7 churches:

7 Churches / 7 candlesticks [1 Menorah? / 7 Menorahs (x7 = 49)?] (in an arc [or a circle maybe?]) (between things seen, things that are, and things that shall be)
~ 7 ecumenical councils? 7 patriarchates (artashat, seleucia-ctesiphon, antioch, jeru, alex, const, rome)? 7 continents? 7 church ages? 7x7 candlesticks/pipes Zechariah? Pentecost/jubilee 50/49 (7x7)? 7 hills Rome? 7 fishes, & 7 baskets of pieces left over from feeding 4000? 7 churches Paul wrote to? Europe is peninsula of (Eur(o)(-))Asia? 7 shepherds & 8 princes Micah 5? 7 sacraments?

1st Ephesus ("desirable / overseer", gateway, east, oldest, seaport, Asia, proconsul, Divine-Mother/Artemis/Diana) ~
Eve/woman? Semiramis? Esther? essenes? Isis? virgo? Babalon/Eridu?* pharos? Cybele? early/apostolic church? Ephesians? Ephesus 193? Ephesus/Mary Mother of God 431/1965? Epiphany? Ebionite? Edessa? Ctesiphon?

* Nicolaus (1st/Ephesus, 3rd/Pergamum)
~ Anacletus/Cletus? Anicetus? Victor (nika)? Callistus (Matt 16)? Novatian? Melchiades? Nicomedia? council of Nicea 325? Antioch (Peter/264/346)? Laodicea 364? St Nicholas 4th cent? Gnostic Nicolaites? Diotrephes? priests/laymen 500? Latin 600?

* synagogue of Satan "who say they are jews and are not" (2nd/Smyrna, 6th/Philadelphia)
~ replacement theology? BI? Masonry? Khazars? rabbinic? Cabalist? Talmudist? Jamnia? Mormons (Lamanites)? Ratana? gnostics? Nennius? holy grail? Synod of Whitby? Setian Gnostics? Calanians?

2 Smyrna ("myrrh/Myrrha", seaport, free civic life, imperial cult)
~ Lugdunum? Jamnia? James? Simon? Simony? Syria 346? Arminium 361? Ancyra 314? Neocaesarea 314? Myra (St Nicholas 4th cent)? Sara? Mary Mother of God Ephesus 431? Mary 600/1854/1950/1965? Maria 1508/1593? Nicomedia? Sirmium?

10 days tribulation (2nd/Smyrna)
~ 10 yrs Diocletian persecution 303-313 (St Alban)? 10 persecutions to 313?

3rd Pergamos/Pergamum ("tower/heights", to/from, emperor worship, Satan's seat/throne)
~ Rome/"Babylon"/Amor/Catholic/Papacy? hiera? marriage? Pisa? Pelagian? Purgatory 593/1439? Barlaam? Parma?

Antipas ("like the father", faithful, witness/martyr, died in midst/among, in satan's seat) (3rd/Pergamum/Pergamos "tower")
~ Telemachus/Almachus (died in coloseum in Rome, ca 400)?* Anastasius 399-401?* antipope? Anterus 235? Alban/Aaron? [Amphibalus]? most popes upto Eusebius c 310 were martyred? Sant iago? Antioch 264/346? Athanasius? 2 witnesses?
{john Baptist? jesus? james Zebedee? stephen? james just? peter (Upsidedown)? andrew (X)? timothy? justin martyr? ursula (& virgins)? sebastian (arrows)? edward the martyr (st edmunds)? joan of arc? thomas More? rasputin?}

* Balaam (3rd/Pergamum)
~ Merlin? Simon Magus? Amphibalus? Berosus/Bel? Valencia? Barlaam/Bilawhar/Balauhar/Balahvar & Josaphat/Joasaph/YuzAsaf/Yud(h)asaf/Bfidisaf/Buddsaf (2nd-4th cent/7th cent/8th cent/1028/1048/10th cent/11th cent/12th cent/17th cent)? Lama/Blama? flamen? brahmin? Alamut? Baphomet?

* Nicolaus/Nicolatians (1st/Ephesus, 3rd/Pergamum)
~ Anacletus/Cletus? Anicetus? Victor 198 (nika)? Callistus (Matt 16)? Novatian? Melchiades? council of Nicea? Ghibelline? inquisition? victory 569? St Nicholas/Santa Claus? Laodicea 364? Niccolo Machiaveli? laymen forbidden 1229/1414? Ignatius?

4th Thyatira ("incense", northern Lydia, borders, valley of Meander, wool/dyed fabrics/dye, orichalc feet)
~ Byzantium/Constantinople (silk)? Phoenicia? frankincense? Avignon? Chalcedon 451/754?

Jezebel (idols, 4th/Thyatira)
~ Theodora 530 (icons)?* Irene 800 (icons)? Helena 328? pope Joan 854? Theodora 10th cent? Marozia 928? Medici 1519? Guglielma? Manfreda 1300? Lucretia Borgia 1500? Catherine Benincasa? Theodora 1050? the harlot Babalon? Isabel (Spain, 1483)?* Isabelle (Jerusalem 1200)?

Plague (4th/Thyatira)
~ epidemic/plague betw 590-604? black death/epidemic/bubonic plague 1347/14thC-15thC-18thC? plague of poverty c 530s? run of bad harvests, famines, epidemics & mortality 1315-1319?

5th Sardis (red? regained importance)
~ Renaissance/Medici? Reformation?

book of life (5th/Sardis)
~ bible (tyndale, gutenberg, k james)? bible forbidden 1229? Apocrypha 1546?

6th Philadelphian ("brotherly love", descs of Macedonians, ancestral bravery & self-reliance, whole earth)
~ Colonial/Puritan? Booth? Sixtus/Sistine 1593? pastor helping me with water?

synagogue of Satan (2nd/Smyrna, 6th/Philadelphia)
~ replacement theology (church replace israel)? British Israel/Christian identity (Lost tribes)? Masonry? Khazars? rabbinic? Cabalist? Talmudist? Jamnia? Mormons? Ratana? gnostics? Nennius? Jehovah's Witness (144000)? Zionism? Zog/Jog? protocols of Zion? Marx?

7th/last Laodicea(ns) (laos "people" + dike "justice", god of medicine, eyesalve, manufacturing & commercial centre, large jewish popn, Jesus on outside, lukewarm, throne, "rich")
~ modern western church(es) (creationists, many churches/demoninamtions/sects, democracy/republic, medication, japhethite, judgment day, corporatism/free-trade/economy, tubal & meshech)? Laodicea 364? 7th Day Adventists?
The book of Revelation, quipped Ambrose Bierce, is "a famous book in which St. John the Divine concealed all that he knew. The revealing is done by the commentators, who know nothing." And G. K. Chesterton wrote, "Though St. John the Evangelist saw many strange monsters in his vision, he saw no creature so wild as one of his own commentators."

Indeed, the book of Revelation, also known as the Apocalypse, is fascinating and mysterious. Like an enchanting woman, the book attracts admirers of every sort. Many attempt outlandish feats of interpretation in order to gain attention. They usually do more damage than good, their fevered explanations reflecting their biases and presumptions rather than any true insight.
read more here

Book of Revelation and the Mass
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IH8rHVb2vJw

Agape Bible Study Revelation Lessons

The Book of Revelation and the Holy Mass
The Book of Revelation shows us glimpses of the heavenly liturgy – Jesus Christ’s once and for all sacrifice eternally present in heaven. This is why the Church has always incorporated the elements that John saw in the heavenly liturgy into her earthly liturgy, for they are one and the same liturgical action of Jesus Christ our High Priest.
list of verses
 

mjrhealth

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If few Fundamentalists know the history of their religion—which distressingly few do—even fewer have an appreciation of the history of the Catholic Church. They become easy prey for purveyors of fanciful "histories" that claim to account for the origin and advance of Catholicism.
The problem is God is opening the eyes of teh blindso the ycan see, and so they are deserting the religion of men in there droves. As for the catholic church, histroy speaiks for itsel. What did Jesus say.

Joh_8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

And the catholic church is guilty of all of the above, the worst part is it was done in the name of God.

Rev 19:2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

God will not forget.

In all His love
 

Bibliocentrist

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I think/feel or hope that i already was fairly objective/open (though i did believe some of the now seemingly not wholly true protestant claims), and that i have become and am and try to be even more neutral/non-confrontational now from all i have learned/learnt here. There are seeming bad and good things in their overall church. I always try to seek the truth in my studies (though the truth is a person), and i resist being forced to go along with wrong (by persecution). It is sad how protestants and catholics are fighting (though not totally if they really are wrong/bad). I am pretty sure that the general 7 churches i posted seems roughly right (eg the Plague is certainly either the black death or the earlier Byzantine time one). I have found a few more possible candidate matches after studying abit more including on the papacy / Catholic church. We can't edit posts on this forum after a short time so sorry for having to repost the 7 churches candidates lists again to give/show the additions. The catholic ones may interest Kepha (eg the universally loved & philadelphia) (generally they are the last few additions to each item). Either the matches could be in catholic church or it is like are also parallel matches in catholic church (perhaps abit like Cainite & Sethite names/meanings similar (though no moral assumption judgment meant on catholic church)).


7 Churches / 7 candlesticks [1 Menorah? / 7 Menorahs (x7 = 49)?] (in an arc [or a circle maybe?]) (between things seen, things that are, and things that shall be)
~ 7 ecumenical councils? 7 patriarchates (artashat, seleucia-ctesiphon, antioch, jeru, alex, const, rome)? 7 continents? 7 church ages? 7x7 candlesticks/pipes Zechariah? Pentecost/jubilee 50/49 (7x7)? 7 hills Rome? 7 fishes, & 7 baskets of pieces left over from feeding 4000? 7 churches Paul wrote to? Europe is peninsula of (Eur(o)(-))Asia? 7 shepherds & 8 princes Micah 5? 7 sacraments? 7 deacons?

1st Ephesus ("desirable / overseer", gateway, east, oldest, seaport, Asia, proconsul, Divine-Mother/Artemis/Diana) ~
Eve/woman? Semiramis? Esther? essenes? Isis? virgo? Babalon/Eridu (centre of the world)?* pharos? Cybele? early/apostolic church? Ephesians? Ephesus 193? Ephesus/Mary Mother of God 431/1965? Epiphany? Ebionite? Edessa? Ctesiphon? Charax? Via Appia? episcopal? Hippo?

* Nicolaus (1st/Ephesus, 3rd/Pergamum) ("rule people" / "antinomian")
~ Anacletus/Cletus? Anicetus? Victor (nika)? Callistus (Matt 16)? Novatian? Melchiades? Nicomedia? council of Nicea 325? ignatius/antioch c108/110? Antioch (Peter/264/346)? Laodicea 364? St Nicholas 4th cent? Gnostic Nicolaites? Diotrephes? priests/laymen 500? Latin 600? Agnes/Anglicus?

* synagogue of Satan "who say they are jews and are not" (2nd/Smyrna, 6th/Philadelphia)
~ replacement theology? BI? Masonry? Khazars? rabbinic? Cabalist? Talmudist? Jamnia? Mormons (Lamanites)? Ratana? gnostics? Nennius? holy grail? Synod of Whitby? Setian Gnostics? Calanians?

2 Smyrna ("myrrh/Myrrha", seaport, free civic life, imperial cult)
~ Lugdunum? Jamnia? James? Simon? Simony 996? Syria 346? Arminium 361? Ancyra 314? Neocaesarea 314? Myra (St Nicholas 4th cent)? Sara? Mary Mother of God Ephesus 431? Mary 600/1854/1950/1965? Maria 1508/1593? Nicomedia? Sirmium? Caesarea Philippi? Constantinople? dark age 891-1048? Santa Maria de Bretona? Milan 313?

10 days tribulation (2nd/Smyrna)
~ 10 yrs Diocletian persecution 303-313 (St Alban)? 10 persecutions to 313?

3rd Pergamos/Pergamum ("tower/heights", to/from, emperor worship, Satan's seat/throne, purge of religion)
~ Rome/"Babylon"/Amor/Catholic/Papacy? hiera? marriage? Pisa? Pelagian? Purgatory 593/1439? Barlaam? Parma? German 996? zenith 1200? Arminium 361?

Antipas ("like the father", faithful, witness/martyr, died in midst/among, in satan's seat) (3rd/Pergamum/Pergamos "tower")
~ Telemachus/Almachus (died in coloseum in Rome, ca 400)?* Anastasius 399-401?* antipope? Anterus 235? Alban/Aaron? [Amphibalus]? most popes upto Eusebius c 310 were martyred? Sant iago? Antioch 264/346? Athanasius? 2 witnesses? artashat? Agnes/Anglicus? Anastasius iii 855?
{john Baptist? jesus? james Zebedee? stephen? james just? peter (Upsidedown)? andrew (X)? timothy? justin martyr? ursula (& virgins)? sebastian (arrows)? edward the martyr (st edmunds)? joan of arc? thomas More? rasputin?}

* Balaam (3rd/Pergamum)
~ Merlin? Simon Magus? Amphibalus? Berosus/Bel? Valencia? Barlaam/Bilawhar/Balauhar/Balahvar & Josaphat/Joasaph/YuzAsaf/Yud(h)asaf/Bfidisaf/Buddsaf (2nd-4th cent/7th cent/8th cent/1028/1048/10th cent/11th cent/12th cent/17th cent)?* Lama/Blama? flamen? brahmin? Alamut? Baphomet?* Benedict 1400? Mercurius 534? Silvester 2 "magician" 1000? John 21 scientist/laboratory 1277? Babylonian captivity 1305?

* Nicolaus/Nicolatians (1st/Ephesus, 3rd/Pergamum)
~ Anacletus/Cletus? Anicetus? Victor 198 (nika)? Callistus (Matt 16)? Novatian? Melchiades? council of Nicea? Ghibelline? inquisition? victory 569? St Nicholas/Santa Claus? Laodicea 364? Niccolo Machiaveli? laymen forbidden 1229/1414?* Ignatius? Nicholas Breakspear 1159?* Agnes/Anglicus? Innocent 11 "firm upholder of his office"? lay-investiture 1077?* Curia 1590?

4th Thyatira ("incense", northern Lydia, borders, valley of Meander, wool/dyed fabrics/dye, orichalc feet)
~ Byzantium/Constantinople (silk)? Phoenicia? frankincense? Avignon? Chalcedon 451/754? trebizond? trier? trent? tartessos? worms? Tyrrhenia (Pisa)? venice? Theophylactus? Zacharias/Joan? Tarentaise 1276? della Rovere 1503? Tarot?*

Jezebel (idols, 4th/Thyatira)
~ Theodora 530 (icons)?* Irene 800 (icons)? Helena 328? pope Joan 854? Theodora 10th cent? Marozia Theophylactus 928? Medici 1519? Guglielma? Manfreda 1300? Lucretia Borgia 1500? Catherine Benincasa? Theodora 1050? the harlot Babalon? Isabel (Spain, 1483)?* Isabelle (Jerusalem 1200)? Cabala?

Plague (4th/Thyatira)
~ epidemic/plague betw 590-604? black death/epidemic/bubonic plague 1347/14thC-15thC-18thC? plague of poverty c 530s? run of bad harvests, famines, epidemics & mortality 1315-1319?

5th Sardis (red? regained importance)
~ Renaissance/Medici? Reformation? spain 1408? Savoy 1440? schism? sixtus? Innocent 11 "saintly reformer" 1680? French revolution? Cardinals "red" (1389/1409)? restored 1370? Xystus 5 a reformer 1590? Carducci? Swiss chard? Chardonnay/Chardonel (white grapes, Burgundy)? Cadiz? Sardinian?

book of life (5th/Sardis)
~ bible (tyndale, gutenberg, k james)? bible forbidden 1229? Apocrypha 1546?

6th Philadelphian ("brotherly love", descs of Macedonians, ancestral bravery & self-reliance, whole earth)
~ Colonial/Puritan? Booth? Sixtus/Sistine 1480/1593? pastor helping me with water? Caesarea Philippi? Philadelphia (USA)? Pius? John 23 "universally loved"? missionary zeal Leo 12 (1829)? Marcellus 2 universally loved 1555? fraternity?

synagogue of Satan (2nd/Smyrna, 6th/Philadelphia)
~ replacement theology (church replace israel)? British Israel/Christian identity (Lost tribes)? Masonry? Khazars? rabbinic? Cabalist? Talmudist? Jamnia? Mormons? Ratana? gnostics? Nennius? Jehovah's Witness (144000)? Zionism? Zog/Jog? protocols of Zion? Marx?

7th/last Laodicea(ns) (laos "people" + dike "justice", god of medicine, eyesalve, manufacturing & commercial centre, large jewish popn, Jesus on outside, lukewarm, throne, "rich")
~ modern western church(es) (creationists, many churches/demoninamtions/sects, democracy/republic, medication, japhethite, judgment day, corporatism/free-trade/economy, tubal & meshech, nationalism)? Laodicea 364? 7th Day Adventists? London? Lateran? French revolution? revolution 1848? social questions 1800? Benedict 15 gave away so much cash 1922? Lucrezia 1480? Lamanites?
 

mjrhealth

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It matters not that protestants and catholics are fighting, they are the world and they conform to the ways of the world just as every other religion does.The cathlics are not more special than teh protestans, nor the JW's ot teh 7th day, the yare all just as guilty and will all be judged.

In all His Love
 

Bibliocentrist

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As usual i made some d**m dumb mistakes, but am not all-wrong as many make-out.
It looks like Ephesus is Jerusalem church. Paul calls Jerusalem "the mother of us all" ~ Ephesus centre of divine/great mother. Ephesus is maybe abit like Jebus. I had thought that Ephesus as "gateway, east, oldest, divine mother, seaport, Asia" fitted Babylon (Peter). For Jerusalem the gateway might match the Way, or the golden gate?? Ephesus was seat of proconsul, as was Jerusalem/Judea. Not sure about the seaport though, maybe Joppa?
Whether Peter was in Babylon or Rome is not totally certain though. They may be right that the 10 days persecution is the 10 persecutions not just the last 10 years one, since myrrh matches persecution/martyr.
 

Bibliocentrist

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Far out, I "can't believe it" i have solved it. The pope is not Peter's successor, the pope is Caesar's/Emperor's successor. At least the first 19 popes names/meanings/details/dates definitely match the Emperors down to Maximus Thrax (sorry i can't do any more as i have other things i need/want to do after today). You can see the popes details in Wikipedia list of Popes.

1 Peter/Cepa ~ Augustus Caesar / Caligula to Nero / Vitelius
2 Linus ~ Galba &/or Otho &/or Vitelius &/or Vespasian
3 Anacletus/Cletus ~ Vespasian & Titus &/or Domitian
4 Clement ~ Domitian (persecution policy/declaration, Timothy)? &/or Nerva?
5 Evaristus ~ Trajan (sound administration, improved social conditions, modest)
6 Alexander ~ Trajan (fine soldier extended empire, Ignatius)
7 Sixtus/Xystus ~ Hadrian
8 Telesphorus ~ Hadrian (Wall)
9 Hyginus ~ Hadrian(us) (Ignatius)? &/or Antoninus Pius?
10 Pius ~ Antoninus Pius
11 Anicetus ~ Antoninus Pius? &/or Lucius Verus?
12 Soter ~ Marcus Aurelius (Stoic/study)
13 Eleutherius ~ Commodius (Aurelius/Hercules/pleasure)
14 Victor ~ (Commodius &/or) civil wars
15 Zephyrinus ~ Septimus Severus (&/or MAA &/or Geta)
16 Callistus ~ (Macrinus &/or) Elagabalus/Heliogabalus
17 Urban ~ Severus Alexander (Aurelius)?
18 Pontian ~ Severus Alexander
19 Anterus ~ Maxim(in)us Thrax (Verus).
 

epostle1

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Bibliocentrist said:
Far out, I "can't believe it" i have solved it. The pope is not Peter's successor, the pope is Caesar's/Emperor's successor. At least the first 19 popes names/meanings/details/dates definitely match the Emperors down to Maximus Thrax
Wrong. There is no association whatsoever. Here's the link to Wikipedia List of Popes that you mention below. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_popes

(sorry i can't do any more as i have other things i need/want to do after today). You can see the popes details in Wikipedia list of Popes.

1 Peter/Cepa ~ Augustus Caesar / Caligula to Nero / Vitelius
2 Linus ~ Galba &/or Otho &/or Vitelius &/or Vespasian
3 Anacletus/Cletus ~ Vespasian & Titus &/or Domitian
4 Clement ~ Domitian (persecution policy/declaration, Timothy)? &/or Nerva?
5 Evaristus ~ Trajan (sound administration, improved social conditions, modest)
6 Alexander ~ Trajan (fine soldier extended empire, Ignatius)
7 Sixtus/Xystus ~ Hadrian
8 Telesphorus ~ Hadrian (Wall)
9 Hyginus ~ Hadrian(us) (Ignatius)? &/or Antoninus Pius?
10 Pius ~ Antoninus Pius
11 Anicetus ~ Antoninus Pius? &/or Lucius Verus?
12 Soter ~ Marcus Aurelius (Stoic/study)
13 Eleutherius ~ Commodius (Aurelius/Hercules/pleasure)
14 Victor ~ (Commodius &/or) civil wars
15 Zephyrinus ~ Septimus Severus (&/or MAA &/or Geta)
16 Callistus ~ (Macrinus &/or) Elagabalus/Heliogabalus
17 Urban ~ Severus Alexander (Aurelius)?
18 Pontian ~ Severus Alexander
19 Anterus ~ Maxim(in)us Thrax (Verus).
Wikipedia is not a reliable source for Catholic history or theology. But since you seem to accept it over my list of popes in post 21, here is a wikipedia source for the list of martyred popes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_murdered_popes
Who do you think killed the first 30 popes? The Jesuits?
 

Bibliocentrist

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Please do not claim i / it is wrong without proving that you have read/studied my list showing correspondences between the names, meanings, details and dates of the first 20 (now done upto/past 70) Popes. The correspondences are clear/stark and undeniable. I did not just use wikipedia i used a number of sources including orthodox/conventional history books. Of course you & they are going to deny it as long as possible.

I sacrificed another 12/24 hours day doing more down to 800. There is no doubt that there are positive correspondences/matches down to at least the end of the Western Roman Empire, and maybe down to Gregory 1, or the first 70 popes, or right down to Charlemagne? I have not done the years 800 to 1048 (and i am not going to as i have other things i need/want to do). The first historical popes date back to at least 1048 it seems. I am not sure about the period 800-1048. So, not sure where the line between "fake" and "real" popes is between Romulus Augustus and 1048. We have made an amazing discovery within this discovery that King Arthur 1 & 2 is in there (confirming my Sutton Hoo thesis and 12 battles = Saxon Shore thesis)!

1 Peter/Petrus/Cepa/Simon (Herme's house) ~ Augustus Caesar / Caligula to Nero / Vitelius, [Jupiter? Patrician?] Paul (house)?
2 Linus ~ Galba / Otho / Vitelius / Vespasian
3 Anacletus &/or Cletus ~ Vespasian & Titus / Domitian
4 Clement (1Clement) ~ Domitian (persecution policy/declaration, Timothy)? &/or Nerva?
5 Evaristus (79) ~ Trajan (sound admn, imp soc con, modest)
6 Alexander ~ Trajan (fine soldier extended emp, Ignatius)
7 Sixtus/Xystus ~ Hadrian
8 Telesphorus ~ Hadrian (Wall)
9 Hyginus ~ Hadrian(us) (Ignatius)? &/or Antoninus Pius?
10 Pius ~ Antoninus Pius
11 Anicetus ~ Antoninus Pius? &/or Lucius Verus?
12 Soter ~ Marcus Aurelius (Stoic/study)
13 Eleutherius (161) ~ Commodius (Aurelius/Hercules/pleasure)
14 Victor ~ (Commodius &/or) civil wars
15 Zephyrinus ~ Septimus Severus (/ MAA / Geta)
16b Hippolytus ~ Heliogabalus? ********
16 Callistus ~ (Macrinus &/or ) Elagabalus
17 Urban ~ Severus Alexander (Aurelius)?
18 Pontian ~ Severus Alexander
19 Anterus ~ Maxim(in)us Thrax (Verus)

20 Fabian(7) ~ (Maximus, Gordian,) Pupienus M , Balbinus, (Gordian, Philippus, Decius)
21 Cornelius ~ Gallus, (Hostilianus, (Aemilian,)) [Gordian?]
21b Novatian
22 Lucius ~ (Aemilian,) Valerian & Gallien (Licinius)
23 Stephen ~ Valerian (martyrs) / Gallien(Egnatius)
24 Sixtus/Xystus ~ Valerian / Gallien?
25 Dionysius ~ Gallien?
26 Felix ~ Claudius, Quintillus, Aurelian , Ulpia Severina?
27 Eu-tychian ~ US, Tacitus, Florian, Probus (farming)?
28 Caius (martyred) ~ (Carinus, Numerian), Diocletian (Gaius , persecution) , (Maximian)
29 Marcellinus ~ (Diocletian), Maximian (Marcus)
30 Marcellus ~ Galerius, Maximian (Marcus), MD , Constantine, LDA, Maxentius (Marcus), Licinius
31 Eusebius ~ Galerius, MD, Constantine, Maxentius , Licinius?
32 Miltiades/Melchiades ~ Maximinus Daia, Constantine (Milan), LDA, Licinius
33 Silvester (Nicea, St Croce) ~ Constantine (cross) , Licinius
34 Mark ~ Constantine 1/2, Constans, Constantius? , Magnus Magnentius?
35 Julius (2) ~ (Constantine 2), Constans (Julius) , Constantius (Julius)
36 Liberius ~ Constantius, Julian [apostate], Jovian , Valentinian, Valens, Procopius?
36b Felix
37 Damasus ~ (Valentinian), Gratian , (Valens, Procopius,) Valentinian, Theodosius (christianity)?
37b Ursicinus ~ Aurelius Ursicinus (Hoxne hoard) / Theodosius (brown bear)? [Caledo?] [general Ursicinus?]
38 Siricius/Sicirius ~ Magnus Maximus, Flavius Victor, Theodosius 1, Valentinian, Eugenius, Honorius? Arcadius?
39 Anastasius ~ Honorius? Arcadius.
40 Innocent (Visigoths) ~ Honorius (Visigoths)? Arcadius? Theodosius 2 (hunting injuries)? Pulcheria?
41 Zosimus ~ (Honorius? &/or) Theodosius2.
42 Boniface ~ Honorius (Telemachus), (Constantius? Theodosius 2?)
43 Coelestinus ~ Honorius (Coloseum), Constantius , (Valentinian? Theodosius 2?)
44 Sixtus Tertius ~ Valentinian 3. Theodosius 2?
45 Leo Magnus (Huns 451) ~ Valentinian, P Maximus, Avitus, Julius Majorian (fine soldier, peace treaty Vandals 461),Marcian?, Leo1.
46 Hilarius ~ Libius Severus? [Lucius Tiberius/Hiberius?] [cf Honorius?] Leo1?
47 Simplicius ~ Anthemius (Riothamus), Olybrius, Glycerius, Julius Nepos, RA, Odoacer? Leo 1/2, Zeno, Basiliscus, Aurelius Memmius Symmachus 485?
48 Felix ~ Odoacer? Zeno?
49 Gelasius (Africa,vicar) ~ Theodoric? Anastasius? [Gaiseric (477)? Pelagian?]
50 Anastasius (Acacian) ~ Anastasius (Byzantine).
50b Laurentius ~ [Lancelot?]
51 Symmachus ~ Theodoric? Anastasius? Aurelius Memmius Symmachus 485? [quintus Aurelius symmachus 446?]
52 Hormisdas ~ Anastasius? Justinus? Theodoric? Ermenrich/Yormon, [Ambrosius?] [Romulus Augustus?] [Ahura Mazda?]
53 John/Giovanni ~ Justinus? Theodoric?
54 Felix Tertius/Quartus ~ Athalaric? Justinian?
55b Dioscorus
55 Boniface (Ostrogoth) ~ Athalaric? Justinian?
56 Mercurio/Ioannes/John ~ Theodahad? Justinian/Theodora? Amalasuntha?
57 Agapetus ~ Theodahad? Amalasuntha? Justinian? [Capet?]
58 Silverius ~ Witigis? Justinian?
59 Vigilius ~ Witigis. (Theodebald? Eraric? Totila? Teia? Justinian?)
60 Pelagius (basilica) ~ Justinian/Theodora (Hagia Sophia).
61 Catelinus/Ioannes/John ~ Justinian/Theodora? Justin? Alboin? Cleph?
62 Benedict ~ Justin 2? interregnum?
63 Pelagius (basilica S Lorenzo le Mura) ~ interregnum? Authari? King Arthur 1? [Pelagian?] Tiberius Constantinus? Mauricius (Tiberius)? Lucius Tiberius? [(Sutton Hoo?)]
64 Gregory Magnus (OSB, serv dei, P.M., dialogist) ~ Romanus? Theodelinda? Agilulf? Phocas? Mauricius?

65 Sabinian ~ Theodelinda? Agilulf? Phocas?

66 Boniface ~ Theodelinda? Agilulf? Phocas.
67 Boniface (Benedict) ~ Agilulf? Theodelinda? Phocas? Heraclius? [Beneventum?]

68 Adeodatus/Deusdedit ~ Adaloald?* Heraclius? Theodelinda?*

69 Boniface ~ Adaloald? Heraclius? [Beneventum?] Theodelinda?

70 Honorius (heretic) ~ [Cereticus?] Rothari? Heraclitus?* Theodelinda?

71 Severinus ~ Rothari? Heraclius (military & admin reform)?
72 john/ioannes/giovanni quartus ~ Rothari? Constantine 3? Heracleonas?

73 Theodore (Palestine, Lateran) ~ Rothari? Constans 2?

74 Martin (martyr) ~ Rothari? [Cadwalon/Cadwaladr? King Arthur 2? Arthus (Sweden)?] Rodoald? Aribert? Constans 2? kill all Lombard dukes?
75 Eugene ~ Aribert? Constans 2 Pognatus? Constantine 4?
76 Vitalian ~ Aribert? Bertharitus? Gondibert? Grimoald? Garibald? Constans 2? Constantine 4?
77 Adeodatus/Deusdedit (OSB) ~ Garibald? Bertharitus? Constantine 4?
78 Donus ~ Bertharitus? Constantine 4?
79 Agatho ~ Bertharitus? Constantinte 4?
80 Leo(ne) ~ Bertharitus? Constantine 4?

81 Benedict/Benedetto (duchy, Byzantine) ~ Bertharitus? Constantine 4? [Beneventum?]

82 john/ioannes/giovanni quintus ~ bertharitus? justinian 2?
83 Conon ~ Bertharitus? Justinian 2 Rhinometus? Leontius?

# Theodorus
84b Paschalis

84 Sergius/Sergorio (agnus dei) ~ Cunibert? Luitbert? Ragimbertus? Leontius? Tiberius Tertius Aspimar?
85 john/ioannes/giovanni ~ Tiberius Aspimar? Ragimbertus? Aribert?
86 john/ioannes/giovanni ~ Aribert? Justinian 2?

87 Sisinnius ~ Aribert? Justinian 2.
88 Constantine (Greece, 708) ~ Justinian 2? Philippicus? Anastasius? Constantine 5 (born 718), Aribert? Luidprand?
89 Gregory ~ Luidprand? Theodosius 3? Leo 3? Constantine 5 Copronymus?
90 Gregory ~ Luidprand? Leo 3? Constantine 5 Copronymus?
91 Zacharias (Maria/Minerva) ~ Luidprand? Hildebrand? Rachis?* Aistulf? Constantine 5?

# Stephen ~ Pepin? Aistulf? Constantine 5? [Capet?]
92 Stephen ~ Pepin? Aistulf? Constantine 5?

93 Paul/Paolo ~ Desiderius? Constantine 5?

# Constantine ~ Constantine 5.

# Philippus
94 Stephen (Lateran) ~ Desiderius? Constantine 5th? Charlemagne?

95 Hadrian ~ Desiderius? Charlemagne? Pepin? Constantine 5? Leo 4? Irene? Constantine 6?
96 Leo(ne) 3 ~ Charlemagne? Bernard? Pepin? Irene? Nicephorus? Stauracus? Michael? Leo 5?
 

epostle1

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I'll take 3 samples from your list.

4. Clement (1Clement) ~ Domitian (persecution policy/declaration, Timothy)? &/or Nerva?
Pope St. Clement I (mentioned in Scripture) was probably killed by the emperor Domitian, one of the worst persecutors in the early Church. He most likely knew Timothy. Nerva was another pagan Roman emperor.

According to Tertullian, writing c. 199, the Roman Church claimed that Clement was ordained by St. Peter (De Praescript., xxxii), and St. Jerome tells us that in his time "most of the Latins" held that Clement was the immediate successor of the Apostle (Illustrious Men 15). St. Jerome himself in several other places follows this opinion, but here he correctly states that Clement was the fourth pope.

Going halfway down your list lands us at 49 (lest I be accused of being hyper selective.)

49. Gelasius (Africa,vicar) ~ Theodoric? Anastasius? [Gaiseric (477)? Pelagian?]
Theodoric was an Arian and political leader, often attacking Catholic lands. The emporer Anastasius (not to be confused with St. Anastasius) always tried to manipulate Gelasius. The Pelagian heresy (one aspect was salvation by works) was condemned by the Councils of Orange (Catholicism does not teach salvation by works yet the myth prevails). Pelagius had nothing to do with Pope Gelasius.
96 Leo(ne) 3 ~ Charlemagne? Bernard? Pepin? Irene? Nicephorus? Stauracus? Michael? Leo 5?
Pope St. Leo crowned Charlemagne (which seems weird to our standards but normal in the 4th century). .....

...Prompted by jealousy or ambition, or by feelings of hatred and revenge, a number of the relatives of Pope Adrian I formed a plot to render Leo unfit to hold his sacred office. On the occasion of the procession of the Greater Litanies (25 April, 799), when the pope was making his way towards the Flaminian Gate, he was suddenly attacked by a body of armed men. He was dashed to the ground, and an effort was made to root out his tongue and tear out his eyes. After he had been left for a time bleeding in the street, he was hurried off at night to the monastery of St. Erasmus on the Cœlian.

There, in what seemed quite a miraculous manner, he recovered the full use of his eyes and tongue. Escaping from the monastery, he betook himself to Charlemagne, accompanied by many of the Romans. He was received by the Frankish king with the greatest honour at Paderborn, although his enemies had filled the king's ears with malicious accusations against him. After a few months' stay in Germany, the Frankish monarch caused him to be escorted back to Rome, where he was received with every demonstration of joy by the whole populace, natives and foreigners. The pope's enemies were then tried by Charlemagne's envoys and, being unable to establish either Leo's guilt or their own innocence, were sent as prisoners to France (Frankland).

In the following year (800) Charlemagne himself came to Rome, and the pope and his accusers were brought face to face. The assembled bishops declared that they had no right to judge the pope; but Leo of his own free will, in order, as he said, to dissipate any suspicions in men's minds, declared on oath that he was wholly guiltless of the charges which had been brought against him. At his special request the death sentence which had been passed upon his principal enemies was commuted into a sentence of exile.

There are 9 "Bernard's" listed in the Catholic Encyclopedia.

Pepin...no association with Pope St. Leo III
Mayor of the Palace of the whole Frankish kingdom (both Austrasia and Neustria), and later King of the Franks; born 714; died at St. Denis, 24 September, 768.

Sr. Irene...no association with Pope St. Leo III
Born in London, England, 12 May, 1823; died in New York, 14 August, 1896. At the age of nine emigrated to Brooklyn, New York, with her parents, and in 1850 joined the community of the Sisters of Charity at Mount St. Vincent, New York, taking in religion the name of Irene. She founded orphanages.

St. Nicephorus, Patriarch of Constantinople, 806-815, no association with Pope St. Leo III.

Stauracus is not found in any search engine.

St. Michael is an archangel.

Leo 5. ...no association with Pope St. Leo III

Very little is known of him. We have no certainty either as to when he was elected or as to exactly how long he reigned. It is highly probable that he was pope during August, 903.
__________________________________________
Bibliocentrist, your associations or correspondences are vague, or non-existent. Could you summarize what you are trying to accomplish?

New Advent Encyclopedia - List of Popes hyperlinked
 

Bibliocentrist

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You only picked-out 3 & only supposedly/seemingly weakest ones and ignored all the stark/strong/definite ones (as people always do on net/web forums) which is indeed "hyper-selective". There are plenty/tons enough horizontal correspondences and successive/sequential matches all through the first 40 to 50 popes which shouldn't be ignored but should also be equally considered. Plus, as i said it , it is only be the first 40 to 50 popes that look deifinite, so is not fair to mainly only pick ones after that.

Ok here is more detailed explanation on our Clement ~ Domitian match which you picked out.
Clement 4th pope ~ Domitian 4th from Nero (excluding the 3 usurpers).
Clement 1st pope & immediate successor of "Peter" ~ Domitian reincarnation of Nero Caesar.
Peter/Cepha(s) crucified upsidedown in Nero's reign ~ Nero anti-christ 616/666.
Clement "prob knew Timothy" ~ Domitian?
Cletus ~ Titus; Clement ~ Titus F Domitian?
Clement 88-97/99 ~ Domitian 81-96.
"Probably", "most likely", "according to ... claimed", "most of the Latins held", "opinion", "hyper selective".
Clement clemency &/or issued '1 Clement' basis of apostolic authority [dominus?] for clergy ~ Domitian persecution policy/declaration??

I am not sure of the correct match for Gelasius. Only the popes down to 40s are certain, the ones after we aren't sure if fake or genuine. Gaiseric or Geiselic are maybe the most likely of our candidates so far.

I am not "trying to accomplish" anything other than that i was objectively trying to find out the truth about the Peter/Pope keys claim and in doing so i found that the list of Popes from Peter to at least the 40th/50th certainly match the Roman Emperors in names, meanings, detials & dates and so is "fake", and christians should know the truth. People are free to deny it; if people do see the stark matches then they are free to either conclude that the early popes list mixed the christian and Roman/imperial (which i do), or else that christian is fake corruption from Roman (which i don't). If it is mixed then either it was a bad lie, or else the popes names just represent genuine christian history periods not actual christian persons names. (One other possibility is that some popes were emperors, but that seems unlikely/stretching from my study of the list since so many matches. Liekwise it is unlikely that the popes were namesakes of contemporary rulers.)

May answer the rest of Leo 3 & candidates next/later if situation & condition permits. But only the first 40 something popes matches are definite, and Leo 3 is way after the first 40 something popes. (Pope Leo 3 not Leo 5.) Leo 5 of Byzantium not Leo 5 of papacy. (I said the matches are of popes with Roman emperors.) Michael 1 of Byzantium not the archangel. Nicephorus 1 of Byzantine emp not the patriarch of Constantinople [note both these have same name and same date!]. Stauracius of Byzantium (sorry miss spelt as Stauracus). (Not sure whether you genuinely misunderstood/ignorant or putting obstacles and trying to make fakely look all-wrong.) Bernard & Pepin of Carolingian Italy. (All matches have roughly same dates, and all are emperors or of Rome/Romans.) The most likely match out of our contemporary Roman/imperial candidates for Leo 3 is either/both Leo 5 &/or Charlemagne. irene of byzantium not of modern times.

We have found matches before Peter/Augustus that we didn't realise/include:

00 John the Baptist ~ Gnaeus Pompeius (Egypt)
0 Jesus Christ (trinity, crucified, cross, baptised, jc, ad/bc calendar, condemned by 70/72 sanhedrim, Galilean, king of jews, revolutionary)
~ Julius Caesar (triumvir, crucified pirates, cross rubicon, jc, calendar, assasinated by 60+2 in senate, Gallia/Gaul, aimed at kingship, reform)

#. 3 pillars ~ 2nd triumvirate??
mark antony (east/egypt) ~ john &/or andrew [antony]?
marcus aemilius lepidus [lapidus] ~ james &/or peter/cephas [lapidus]?
caius julius caesar octavian ~ cepha(s) &/or john?
 

Bibliocentrist

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Sorry, in the posting of the list of 90 Popes & Roman Emperors matches I should have said that if you can't easily see the matches then you may need to spend a little time reading/studying our lists of candidate matches (& thinking and researching), and i should have explained that i have given all possible contemporary candidates for each Pope (and that all candidates are roughly same date and are all emperors and/or of Rome / (West/East/Holy) Romans), and that the correct candidate may be any one or more or all (or none) of the candidates (and i should have asterisked/boldened/highlighted the most likely candidate/s, to lessen the gooder candidates being detracted/cluttered out by the bader candidates). So in the below, the ones with more asterisks are more likely than candidates with less asterisks (only within each one indidividual pope candidates row, not between all popes candidates vertically). I will try to bolden/highlight the most stark/certain matches. Sorry to have to repost the whole list again since we can't edit posts here after awhile. Some popes may match more than one emperor, some emperors may be more than one pope.
Unfortunately i am sorry that i do not have the free time and health and situation to be able to explain in detail every jot and tiddle of the more obscure matches. I am been having heart pains, and i have other things i seriously need/want to do, and people will not accept and will keep me busy until i have spent years writing thousands of pages explaining & proving & correcting/refining/perfecting/improving.

00 John the Baptist (Bapho-met) ~ Gnaeus Pompeius (Egypt)*.
0 Jesus Christ (JC, trinity, crucified, cross, baptised, bc/ad calendar, 30 yrs, condemned by 70/72 sanhedrim, virgin, successor Cephas)
~ Julius Caesar (JC, triumvir, crucified pirates, cross rubicon, calendar, assasinated by 60+2 in senate, Gallia/Gaul, aimed at kingship, reform, [venus], successor Caesar Augustus laurel wreath, [p.m.?])?* comet?


1 Peter/Petrus/Cepa(s)/Simon (Hermes' house, upsidedown, Caesarea Philippi) ~ Augustus Caesar** / Caligula to Nero (666)** / Vitelius, [Jupiter? Capitol? Patrician? Praetor?** Pontiff?] Paul (house)?** Lepidus?* Simon Magus?* [Paderborn? imperator/emperor?]
2 Linus ~ Galba & Otho & Vitellius* (&/or Vespasian)
3 Anacletus &/or Cletus ~ Vespasian* & Titus* / Domitian?
4/2 Clement (1 Clement, Timothy) ~ Domitian (persecution policy/declaration, Timothy)?** (&/or Nerva?*)
5 Ev-aristus (79) ~ Nerva?** Trajan (sound admin, improved social conditions, modest)?*
6 Alex-ander ~ Trajan (fine soldier extended empire, Ignatius)*
7 Sixtus/Xystus ~ Hadrian*. [Sextae? LA Castus? 12 Caesars?]
8 Telesphorus ~ Hadrian (Wall)*.
9 Hyginus ~ Hadrian(us) (Ignatius)?** &/or Antoninus Pius?*
10 Pius ~ Antoninus Pius*.
11 Anicetus ~ Antoninus Pius? &/or Lucius Verus?
12 Soterus ~ Marcus Aurelius (Stoic/study)?* or Lucius Verus?
13 Eleutherius (161) ~ Commodius (Aurelius/Hercules/pleasure)* or Marcus Aurelius?
14 Victor ~ (Commodius &/or) civil wars*
15 Zephyrinus ~ Septimus Severus* (/ MAA / Geta)
16b Hippolytus ~ Heliogabalus?*
16 Callistus ~ (Macrinus &/or ) Elagabalus*.
17 Urban ~ Severus Alexander (Aurelius)?*
18 Pontian ~ Severus Alexander
19 Anterus ~ Maxim(in)us Thrax (Verus)*.

20 Fabian (7) ~ (Maximus, Gordian,) Pupienus M*, Balbinus*, (Gordian, Philippus, Decius)
21 Cornelius ~ Gallus, (Hostilianus, (Aemilian*,)) [Gordian*?]
21b Novatian
22 Lucius ~ (Aemilian,) Valerian & Gallien (Licinius)*.
23 Stephen ~ Valerian (martyrs**) / Gallien (Egnatius*)?
24 Sixtus/Xystus ~ Valerian / Gallien?
25 Dionysius ~ Gallien?
26 Felix ~ Claudius, Quintillus, Aurelian , Ulpia Severina*?
27 Eu-tychian ~ US, Tacitus**, Florian, Probus (farming)?
28 Caius (martyred) ~ (Carinus*, Numerian), Diocletian (Gaius, persecution)**, (Maximian)
29 Marcellinus ~ (Diocletian), Maximian (Marcus)*, [Licinius*].
30 Marcellus ~ Galerius, Maximian (Marcus)*, MD , Constantine, LDA, Maxentius (Marcus)*, Licinius
31 Eusebius "good" ~ Galerius, MD*, Constantine, Maxentius, Licinius?
32 Miltiades/Melchiades ~ Maximinus Daia, Constantine (Milan), LDA, Licinius
33 Silvester (Nicea, St Croce) ~ Constantine (cross)*, Licinius
34 Mark ~ Constantine 1/2, Constans, Constantius? , Magnus Magnentius*?
35 Julius (2) ~ (Constantine 2), Constans (Julius)*, Constantius (Julius)*
36 Liberius ~ Constantius, Julian [apostate]*, Jovian , Valentinian, Valens, Procopius?
36b Felix
37 Damasus ~ (Valentinian), Gratian , (Valens, Procopius,) Valentinian, Theodosius (christianity)*?
37b Ursicinus ~ Aurelius Ursicinus (Hoxne hoard)* / Theodosius (brown bear)?* [Caledo?] [general Ursicinus?]
38 Siricius/Sicirius ~ Magnus Maximus, Flavius Victor, Theodosius 1, Valentinian, Eugenius, Honorius? Arcadius?* [Scirians?]
39 Anastasius ~ Honorius? Arcadius*.
40 Innocent (Visigoths) ~ Honorius (Visigoths)?* Arcadius? Theodosius 2 (hunting injuries)?* Pulcheria?
41 Zosimus ~ (Honorius? &/or) Theodosius 2*.
42 Boni-face ~ Honorius (Telemachus)*, (Constantius? Theodosius 2?)
42b Eulalius ~ Almachus/Telemachus? Alaric/Arian?** [Aelle?]
43 Coelestinus ~ Honorius (Coloseum*), Constantius**, (Valentinian? Theodosius 2?) [Ceawlin/Cealwin?]
44 Sixtus Tertius ~ Valentinian 3*. Theodosius 2?
45 Leo Magnus (Huns 451) ~ Valentinian, P Maximus*, Avitus, Julius Majorian (fine soldier, peace treaty Vandals 461)**, Marcian?, Leo 1*.
46 Hilarius ~ Libius Severus?** [Lucius Tiberius/Hiberius?] [cf Honorius/Alaric?*] Leo1?
47 Simplicius ~ Anthemius* (Riothamus), Olybrius, Glycerius, Julius Nepos, RA, Odoacer?* Leo 1/2, Zeno, Basiliscus*, Aurelius Memmius Symmachus 485?*
48 Felix ~ Odoacer? Zeno? Euric?
49 Gelasius (Africa,vicar) ~ Theodoric? Anastasius? [Gaiseric (477)?* Pelagian? Geiselico?*]
50 Anastasius (Acacian) ~ Anastasius (Byzantine)*.
50b Laurentius ~ [Lancelot?* Urien(s)?]
51 Symmachus ~ Theodoric? Anastasius? Aurelius Memmius Symmachus 485?* [quintus Aurelius symmachus 446?] Mihirakula 500-28?
52 Hormisdas ~ Anastasius? Justinus? Theodoric? Ermenrich/Yormon**, [Ambrosius/Merlin?*] [Romulus Augustus?] Mihirakula 500-28? [Ahura Mazda?]

53 John/Giovanni ~ Justinus?* Theodoric?* Mihirakula 500-28?
54 Felix Tertius/Quartus ~ Athalaric?** Justinian?*
55b Dioscorus
55 Boniface (Ostrogoth) ~ Athalaric? Justinian?
56 Mercurio/Io-annes/John ~ Theodahad?* Justinian/Theodora?* Amalasuntha?*

57 Agapetus ~ Theodahad?* Amalasuntha? Justinian? [Capet?]
58 Silverius ~ Witigis? Justinian?
59 Vigilius ~ Witigis***. (Theodebald? Eraric?** Totila?* Teia? Justinian?) [Uther?]
60 Pelagius (basilica) ~ Justinian/Theodora (Hagia Sophia)*. King Arthur?**

61 Catelinus/Ioannes/John ~ Justinian/Theodora?* Justin?* Alboin? Cleph?
62 Benedict ~ Justin 2? interregnum?
63 Pelagius (basilica S Lorenzo le Mura) ~ interregnum? Authari?* King Arthur 1 (Carduel)?* [Pelagian (British)?] Tiberius Constantinus? Mauricius (Tiberius)?* Lucius Tiberius?* [(Sutton Hoo?)*]
64 Gregory Magnus (OSB, serv dei, P.M., dialogist) ~ Romanus?*** Theodelinda? Agilulf?**** Phocas?* Mauricius?** Reccared?****

65 Sabinian ~ Theodelinda?* Agilulf? Phocas?

66 Boniface ~ Theodelinda? Agilulf? Phocas*.
67 Boniface (Benedict) ~ Agilulf? Theodelinda? Phocas?* Heraclius? [Beneventum?*]

68 Adeodatus/Deusdedit ~ Adaloald?* Heraclius? Theodelinda?*

69 Boniface ~ Adaloald? Heraclius? [Beneventum?*] Theodelinda?

70 Honorius (heretic) ~ [Cereticus?] Rothari? Heraclitus?* Theodelinda? Ardashir 628?

71 Severinus ~ Rothari? Heraclius (military & admin reform)?*
72 john/ioannes/giovanni quartus ~ Rothari? Constantine 3? Heracleonas?

73 Theo-dore (Palestine, Lateran) ~ Rothari?* Constans 2?

74 Martin (martyr) ~ Rothari?* [Cadwalon/Cadwaladr?* King Arthur 2?* Arthus (Sweden)?*] Rodoald? Aribert? Constans 2? kill all Lombard dukes?* recceswinth 649-72?
75 Eu-gene ~ Aribert? Constans 2 Pognatus?* Constantine 4? recceswinth 649-72?
76 Vitalian ~ Aribert? Bertharitus?* Gondibert? Grimoald? Garibald? Constans 2? Constantine 4? recceswinth 649-72? Whitby?*
77 Adeodatus/Deusdedit (OSB) ~ Garibald? Bertharitus? Constantine 4?
78 Donus ~ Bertharitus? Constantine 4?
79 Agatho ~ Bertharitus? Constantinte 4?
80 Leo(ne) ~ Bertharitus? Constantine 4?*

81 Benedict/Benedetto (duchy, Byzantine) ~ Bertharitus?* Constantine 4? [Beneventum?*] [Benedict-Bran?]

82 john/ioannes/giovanni quintus ~ bertharitus? justinian 2?*
83 Conon ~ Bertharitus? Justinian 2 Rhinometus?* Leontius?**

# Theodorus
84b Paschalis

84 Sergius/Sergorio (agnus dei) ~ Cunibert? Luitbert? Ragimbertus?* Leontius? Tiberius Tertius Aspimar?*
85 john/ioannes/giovanni ~ Tiberius Aspimar? Ragimbertus? Aribert?
86 john/ioannes/giovanni ~ Aribert? Justinian 2?*

87 Sisinnius ~ Aribert? Justinian 2*.
88 Constantine (Greece, 708) ~ Justinian 2?* Philippicus? Anastasius?* Constantine 5 (born 718)**, Aribert? Luidprand?
89 Gregory ~ Luidprand? Theodosius 3? Leo 3? Constantine 5 Copronymus?*
90 Gregory ~ Luidprand? Leo 3? Constantine 5 Copronymus?*
91 Zacharias (Maria/Minerva) ~ Luidprand? Hildebrand? Rachis?* Aistulf? Constantine 5?

# Stephen ~ Pepin?* Aistulf?* Constantine 5?* [Capet?]
92 Stephen ~ Pepin?* Aistulf?* Constantine 5?*

93 Paul/Paolo ~ Desiderius? Constantine 5?

# Constantine ~ Constantine 5*.

# Phil-ippus
94 Stephen (Lateran) ~ Desiderius?* Constantine 5th?* Charle-magne?

95 Hadrian ~ Desiderius?* Charlemagne?* Pepin? Constantine 5?* Leo 4? Irene? Constantine 6?* Adriatic?*
96 Leo(ne) 3 ~ Charlemagne?* Bernard (Italy)? Pepin (Italy)? Irene? Nicephorus? Stauracus? Michael (Byzantine)? Leo 5 (Byzantine)?*
 

epostle1

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Emperors had temporal, civil jurisdiction, Popes had religious jurisdiction. Sometimes there was an overlap, I.e. the Arians were causing civil problems that needed a religious solution, hence the Council of Nicae of 325. Some emperors were not all friendly to the pope. A historical parallel (emperors and popes reigning at the same time) does not necessitate continuous collaboration.

The first 30 popes were killed, but you still haven't told me who killed them.
 

mjrhealth

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Maybe we should start listing all teh people the catholic church murdered???
 

epostle1

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mjrhealth said:
Maybe we should start listing all teh people the catholic church murdered???
That's a good idea. To be fair, we can list all the people killed in the name of Protestantism. It amounts to a rock throwing contest that goes nowhere.

The Protestant Inquisition: "Reformation" Intolerance and Persecution

The OP is The Pope's Office in the Bible. So far, no one has accused Jeremiah and Daniel of being false prophets.
Jer. 33:17
Dan. 2:44
No one has denied the distinct parallel, almost identical wording, of [SIZE=13pt]Matthew 16:19 [/SIZE][SIZE=13pt]with [/SIZE][SIZE=13pt]Revelation 3:7[/SIZE]

The Pope's office is in the Bible, in both the OT and the NT.
In order to justify their rebellion, the reformers were forced to artificially discredit the papacy.
 

epostle1

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50 New Testament Proofs for Petrine Primacy and the Papacy
The Catholic doctrine of the papacy is biblically based, and is derived from the evident primacy of St. Peter among the apostles. Like all Christian doctrines, it has undergone development through the centuries, but it hasn't departed from the essential components already existing in the leadership and prerogatives of St. Peter. These were given to him by our Lord Jesus Christ, acknowledged by his contemporaries, and accepted by the early Church. The biblical Petrine data is quite strong and convincing, by virtue of its cumulative weight, especially for those who are not hostile to the notion of the papacy from the outset. This is especially made clear with the assistance of biblical commentaries. The evidence of Holy Scripture (RSV) follows: read more here
 

Bibliocentrist

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I am not wasting anymore time/effort. You are seemingly using common tactics of ignoring, dismissing, evading and covering-up etc, and no one else seems to care or be interested in our discovery (or else they do not see how stark the matches are (maybe because i have not presented it well enough)). Obviously God doesn't want your Julian/Caesarean/Praetorian ("Jesuit/Christian/Cephas/Petrine") papacy exposed yet so i won't push it lest he punishes me and lest they easily destroy me. And really it doesn't matter because there are many other liars and enemies in the world too.
It is not just "some overlap" the matches are quality and qauntity throughout, matching in names, meanings, details and dates.
Can you deny that "pope" Zephyrinus matches Severus in name, meaning, details & date?
Can you deny that "pope" Alexander matches Trajan who was a fine soldier and extended the empire and is stated in history book to have been "thinking aloud of Alexander the Great" when he was in Charax, and has pretty much the same date?
Can you deny that "pope" Fabian matches either/both Balbinus &/or Pupienus in name and date?
Can you deny that "pope" Pius 1 matches Antoninus Pius in name and date?

"Who killed the first 30 popes"? It doesn't matter &/or we have proven that the first 30 popes are really the Roman Emperors. Some of them were the killers of Christians; some of them died various ways. What historical evidences/sources/proofs are there for the 1st 30 "popes" and their alleged martyrdoms?

"Rebelion" smacks of Roman/Imperial/Caesarean claim to rule the whole Empire/Europe.

I am no able to waste any more time studying the alledged "biblical proofs" of Petrine pope. And they don't matter anyway because we have proven that the first 40+ "popes" and "Peter" are really Roman emperors and so the Petrine succession is lie/false/fake/fraud. Some "biblical" maybe false interpreations. The bible is true; the popes down to at least 461 or at most 1048 (or at absolute most 1191?) are semi-fake.

All humans are bad. I have not physically killed anyone as far as i know. I have been poisoned etc most of my "life". Cain killed Abel not v-v. Some claims of various people are lies.
 

mjrhealth

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The pope has no position in teh bible no ,matter how you try to justify a lie it will always be a lie.