Any Comments On combinning progression, elements, and "Types," from these texts as well as others in an end times commentary:Please post Your commetaries and takes on end times prophecies, and related texts, and please simply ignore any text of which You find no actual or symbolic details in aplication, to be derived from. As I present no conclusions here Myself, but some interesting textual possibilities from which You may work, as well as traditional and obvious passages in use, please feel free to only use and comment on the texts You use as relevant. Thank You.Ezekiel 28:11-19 " Again the word of the Lord came to me saying, 'Son of man, take up a lamentation over the King of Tyre, and say to him, 'Thus says the Lord God, 'You had the seal of perfection, Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The ruby, the topaz, and the diamond; The beryl, the onyx, and the jasper; The lapis lazuli, the turquoise, and the emerald; And the gold, the workmanship of your settings and sockets, Was in you, On the day that you were created, They were prepared. 'You were the anointed cherub who covers, And I placed you there. You were on the Holy mountain of God; You walked in the midst of the stones of fire. 'You were blameless in your ways From the day you were created, Until unrighteousness was found in you. 'By the abundance of your trade You were internally filled with violence, And you sinned; Therefore I have cast you as profane From the mountain of God. And I have destroyed you, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. 'Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; You corrupted your wisdom by reason of your splendor. I cast you to the ground; I put you before kings, That they may see you. 'By the multitude of your iniquities, In the unrighteousness of your trade, You profaned your sanctuaries. Therefore I have brought fire from the midst of you; It has consumed you, And I have turned you to ashes on the earth In the eyes of all who see you. 'All who know you among the peoples are appalled at you; You have become terrified, And you will be no more."Daniel 9:24-25 "Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up the vision, and the prophet, and to anoint the most holy place. 'So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress."Daniel 9:26-a "then after the sixty-two ( and seven ) weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing..."Daniel 9:26-b "....and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined, "Daniel 9:27-a "And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering;..."Daniel 9:27-b "...and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction,..."Daniel 9:27-c "...And One that is decreed, is poured out on the desolator."Isaiah 23:15-17 "Now it will come about in that day that Tyre will be forgotten for seventy years like the days of one king. At the end of seventy years it will happen to Tyre as in the song of the Harlot: 'Take your harp, walk about the city, O forgotten harlot; pluck the strings skillfully, sing many songs, That you may be remembered. And it will come about at the end of seventy years that the Lord will visit Tyre. Then she will go back to her harlot's wages, and will play the harlot with all the kingdoms on the face of the earth."Genesis 8:6-12 "Then it came about at the end of forty days, that Noah opened the window of the ark which he had made; and he sent out a raven, and it flew here and there until the water was dried up from the earth. Then he sent out a dove from him, to see if the water was abated from the face of the land; But the dove found no resting place for the sole of her foot, so she returned to him into the ark; for the water was on the surface of all the earth. Then he put out his hand and took her, and brought her into the ark to himself. So he waited yet another seven days; and again he sent out the dove from the ark. And the dove came to him toward evening; and behold, in her beak was a freshly picked olive leaf. So Noah knew that the water was abated from the earth. Then he waited yet another seven days, and sent out the dove; but she did not return to him again."***** With Matthew 24: etc..., as wellRevelation 9:1-12 "And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star from heaven which had fallen to the earth; and the key of the bottomless pit was given to him. And he opened the bottomless pit; and smoke went up out of the pit, like the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by the smoke of the pit. and out of the smoke came forth locusts upon the earth; and power was given them, as the scorpions of the earth have power. And they were told that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, nor any green thing, nor any tree, but only the men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads. And they were not permitted to kill anyone, but to torment for five months; and their was like the torment of a scorpion when it stings a man. And in those days men will seek death and will not find it; and they will long to die and death flees from them. And the appearance of the locusts was like horses prepared for battle; and on their heads, as it were, crowns like gold, and their faces were like the faces of men, And they had hair like the hair of women, and their teeth were the teeth of lions. And they had breastplates like breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was like the sound of chariots, of many horses rushing to battle. and they have tails like scorpions, and stings; and in their tails is their power to hurt men for five months. They have as king over them, the angel of th abyss; his name in hebrew is Abaddon, and in the Greek he has the name Apollyon. The first woe is past; behold, two woes are still comming after these things."Revelation 12:1-6 "And a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars; and she was with child; and she cried out, being in labor and in pain to give birth. And anothe sign appeared in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads were seven diadems. And his tail swept away a third of the stars of heaven, and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she gave birth he might devour her child. And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron; and her Child was caught up to God and to His throne. And the woman fled into the wilderness where she had a place prepared by God, so that there she might be nourished for one thousand two hundred and sixty days."Revelation 12:7-12 "And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. And the dragon and his angels waged war, and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven. And the great sragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, 'Now the salvation, and the power, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethern has been thrown down, who accuses them before our God day and night. 'And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they did not love their life even to death. 'For this reason, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them. Woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has come down to you, having great wrath knowing that he has only a short time."Revelation 12:13-17 "And when the dragon saw he was thrown down to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male child. And the two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, in order that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she was nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. And the serpent poured water like a river out of his mouth after the woman, so that he might cause her to be swept away with the flood. And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and drank up the river which the dragon poured out of his mouth. And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus."Revelation 13:1-18 "And he stood on the sand of the seashore. And I saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads, and on his horns were ten diadems, and on his heads were blasphemous names. And the beast which I saw was like a leopard, and his feet were like those of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. And the dragon gave him his power and his throne and great authority. And i saw one of his heads as if it had been slain, and his fatal wound was healed. And the whole earth was amazed and followed after the beast; and they worshiped the dragon, because he gave his authority to the beast; saying, 'Who is like the beast, and who is able to wage war with him? And there was given to him a mouth speaking arrogant words and blasphemies; and authority to act for forty-two months was given to him. And he opened his mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme His name, and His tabernacle, that is, those who dwell in heaven. And it was given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them; and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him. And all who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain. If anyone has an ear, let him hear. If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed. Here is the perseverance and the faith of the saints. And I saw another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spoke as a dragon. And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence. And he makes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose fatal wound was healed. And he performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the presence of men. And he deceives those who dwell on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who had the wound of the sword and has come to life. And there was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast might even speak and cause as many as do not worship the image of the beast to be killed. And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand, or on their forehead. and he provides that no one should be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of man; and it's number is six hundred and sixty six."Revelation 16:12-16 "And the sixth angel poured out his bowl upon the great river, the Euphrates; and its water was dried up, that the way might be prepared for the kings from the east. And I saw coming out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits like frogs; for they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them together for the war of the great day of God, the Almighty. 'Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who stays awake and keeps his garments, lest he walk about naked and men see his shame. And they gathered them together to the place which in Hebrew is called Harmageddon."Revelation 17:1-6 "And one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and spoke with me, saying, 'Come here, I shall show you the judgment of the great harlot who sits on many waters, with whom the kings of the earth committed acts of immorality, and those who dwell on the earth were made drunk with the wine of her immorality. And he carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast, full of blasphemous names, having seven heads and ten horns. And the woman was clothed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a gold cup full of abominations and of the unclean things of her immorality, and upon her forehead a name was written, a mystery, 'BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH." And I saw the woman drunk with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus. And when I saw her, I wondered greatly. "Revelation 17:7-18 "And the angel said to me, 'Why do you wonder? I shall tell you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and ten horns. 'The beast that you saw was and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and to go to destruction. And those who dwell on the earth will wonder, whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast, that he was and is not and will come. 'Here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits, and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while. 'And the beast which was and is not, is himself also an eighth, and is one of the seven, and he goes to destruction. And the ten horns which you saw are ten kings, who have not yet received a kingdom, but they receive authority as kings with the beast for one hour. These have one purpose and they give their power and authority to the beast. These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of Lords and King of Kings, and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and faithful. And he said to Me 'The waters you saw where the harlot sits, are peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues. And the ten horns which you saw, and the beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her desolate and naked, and will eat her flesh and will burn her up with fire. 'For God has put it in their hearts to execute His purpose by having a common purpose, and by giving their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God should be fulfilled. And the woman whom you saw is the great city, which reigns over the kings of the earth."Revelation 18:1-11 "After these things I saw another angel coming doen from heaven, having great authority, and the earth was illumined with his glory. And he cried out with a mighty voice, saying, 'Fallen, Fallen is Babylon the great! And she has become a dwelling place of demons and a prison of every unclean spirit, and a prison of every unclean and hateful bird. 'For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the passion of her immorality, and the kings of the earth have committed acts of immorality with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich by the wealth of her sensuality. And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, 'Come out of her, my people, that you may not receive of her plagues; for her sins have piled up as high as heaven, and God has rembered her iniquities. 'Pay her back even as she has paid, and give back to her double according to her deeds; in the cup which she has mixed, mix twice as much for her. To the degree that she has glorified herself and lived sensuously, to the same degree give her torment and mourning; for she says in her heart, 'I sit as a QUEEN and I am not a widow, and will never see mourning. For this reason in one day her plagues will come, pestilence and mourning and famine, and she will be burned up with fire; For the Lord God who judges her is strong. And the kings of the earth, who committed acts of immorality and lived sensuously with her, will weep and lament over her when they see the smoke of her burning, standing at a distance because of the fear of her torment, saying, 'WOE WOE, the great city, Babylon, the strong city! For in one hour your judgment has come. And the merchants of the earth weep and mourn over her, because no one buys their cargoes any more;"May Christ Richly Bless Those Who Love Him, AmenMike:bible:
possible Elements of end times prophecies
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All of the Above passages were chosen for obvious reasons, or for passages mentioed in this site for interesting theories of inclusion in prophetic relevance or prophetic "Type" elements found within them. Please feel free in your comments and commentaries to leave out elements You do not see Yourself, but rather present You conclusions, if You would be so kind to do so - as I have provided no conclusions myself, but rather lists of elements mentioned as having prophetic elements, as well as obvious prophetic texts. I thank You for your end times take on prophecy, to each and everyone who wishes to participate.At the very least for example the raven has been interpreted as representing satan, and the dove the Holy Ghost, And the Olive leaf Christ; with even richer symbolism found within the passage. The King of Tyre was Lucifer as The Anointed Cherub Who Covers, Judged for His rebelion against God. And then after the 70 years, like the days of one king, during which time Tyre had been forgotten, only to be revisited by the Lord so Trye will go back to Her Harlots wages, in which she will play the harlot with "all the kingdoms on the face of the earth." And is it relevent that "At the end of seventy years / and it will come about at the end of seventy years," mentioned twice significant in relation to the 70th week of Daniel, the 70th week of 70 weeks of 7 years. Because At 1st does it seem that disimilar terms of ( 70 sevens ) and ( 70 years ) can coincide as being of the same end point in the 70th week ** Or not??? So include or exclude whichever passages in the Bible You wish, and share with us, 'What is Your particular "Take" on End Time Events????'In addition Daniel has been Translated as saying "seal up vision and prophecy," where others have clearly pointed out that it says to seal up "The prophet," and the article can be implied with "The vision," but the sealing up of vision(s) about "The Prophet," is intriguing, as Christ is many things including Prophet of Prophets, via Daniel's reference, as He is also King of Kings, and Lord of Lords. So again I only ask of You, Your Take on things, including or excluding what Bible verses You so chooese??????????? May Christ Richly Bless Those Who Truly Love Him, Amen :bible:Mike.
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***** For example I again post this quote from a post By Kriss."First lets make it clear here the Antichrist is Satan himself come to earth his spirit now roams the earth but he is being held by Michael (He was conquered by the death on the cross) We are told in Revelation Woe to earth for Satan the devil has come down to earth. There is silence in heaven because Satan has just been kicked to earth so is no longer accusing the saints.(luke says there is lightning when Satan gets kicked out) Luk 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. Rev12:7there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, Rev 12:9And the great dragon (Satan)was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.Rev 12:10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and nighRev. 12:11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.Rev12:12 Therefore rejoice, [ye] heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.Rev12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man [child].Now that we know who Antichrist is what will he be doing. He will be pretending to be christ (antichrist means instead of christ)As you probably know the he is supposed to be here 7 years(dived into two 3 1/2 time periods he comes peacfully and prosperously he will come pretending to be the lamb he will be making friends and infulenceing peopleand will become the One World leader and set up a one world government then in mid/week 3 1/2 years into his one world system he changes rolesand comits the Amomination of Desolation and declares himself to be God And sets up his one world religious system for 3 1/2 years Now I believe that this time he is here is shortened to a 5month period dived into two 2 1/2month periods based on the description of Satans Locust army (of fallen Angels) who are kicked down with him but are only here 5 months. God also says if he did not shorten the time no one would be left so for the Elects sake he shortened the time.Rev 9:5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment [was] as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.Rev9:10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power [was] to hurt men five months."Again May Christ Richly Bless Those Who Truly Love Him, Amen :bible:Mike. :study: :shepard:
Because The Ark experience is so rich in Biblical Types, I am looking to see if You also see end times Types and Typing within it's imagery. I for one have always help part of the anti-theology of the number of the beast involves the twist and fruitless attempt to think one can spiritualy reverse engineer being like Jacob in type having traveled to Egypt with 66 persons, having to somehow being reverse engineered secrety to be taken as meaning one has to reverse the timing and order of Genesis, to walk backwards with the symbolism of jacob and 66, backwards thru the 600'th year of Noah's life -when the flood came - to re-enter a falsely held belief in secretly pseudo-restoring the original state of "peace," and harmony in the Garden of Eden, where instead we are to move foward, to the only New Eden possible, Salvation from Our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus --And the anti-theology of their 666 -if I am correct in seeing it as such, it would be nothing but God's assignment in name to their evil -which lucifer/satan try and place within ones mind, heart, soul, spirit, etc.., i.e. the lost person as a whole, and the 666 is god's revelation of what the enemy is about -so who cares if this reverse means to them shedding the meaning of the number as they think they progress fowards by going backwards, or feel they retain the additive nature of the number -Because God says they and their system retain this number of the beast and it's sytem, unless one repents and is saved.However, I did not place that Genesis text here to explain My theory on that aspect of the meaning of the schemes of the enemy. nor to discuss the following: That in the Symbolism also seen in the evil nature of the raven, which leaves to only serve it's own evil desires, as the evil desires of the lost Inner Man of the heart, seeking it's lost state and it's sins, while Noah would be a "Type," for the Heart in this case, and as such Noah retains no place in His heart for the sinful nature, in letting the raven go. But in having responed to the witness of Christ allways deep within us as convictions not seen, Noah sends His repentance and acceptance of Christ in type, when He sends the accepted witness back to God, as yes -symbolised by the dove, In which case God sends Christ back to the heart of the Man symbolised by the Olive Leaf , as the Inner Man of the Heart had repented, and Christ -symbolised by the returning dove, returns to bring salvation to the Man, and sup with Him, and to leave the deposit of the Holy Ghost with the man as well as the Indwelling of God the Father, Christ and the Holy Spirit-symbolised by the olive leaf, and the dove again symbolising Christ's and the Trinities Authority as a whole authority which the Dove witnesses to, has to be let go of, in the aspect of having saved the man, but having left the Father, Christ, and the Holy Spirit Indwellinng as the downpayment of our future in Heaven with Christ The Father and the Holy Spirit, The "Authority of Rule" must return to Heaven, and thus the dove is released for the last time, even though the Indwelling means in a way We are already in Heaven Eph 2:6, of Eph 2:4-10. Now the seven days between the three events involving the dove symbolise rest. And One could go on, and find more. But not every detail in a story seen as symbolic and of types, will reslolve every single litteral detail with the historic account, and also requires faith to see, we have allways had the witness of Christ before we Have recieved Him -and therefore the role of the dove would have to "Morph" slightly in it's "Aspects" of these roles -if the symbolism and types are indeed true - or is it reading into the account something which can not be taken as symbolism and type, one must determine how they feel?????But in having given these possibilities, it seems that Noah, and the ark experience is so rich in symbolism, that do we also see end time symbolism there or not????? I only ask if there has been symbolism, and end times theory, You do or do not see in the narative????? I intend to force no such symbolism or theory upon anyone, but ask what You see in only the texts You feel play a role in end times "texts," and such symbolism which can be seen in texts You do use?????????????????May Christ Richly Bless Those Who Truly Love Him, Amen. :bible:
In the Pagan world in which we live in, and are not to be part of, symbolism has allways been abused, and in many places coppied from, and modified from Biblical stories, which does not negate the use of, but requires that we be dilligent in it's proper use.I have just found the following short article in a quick online search:"In the Hebrew Version of the use of Dove and Raven Symbolism in the Biblical flood story, Noah first sends the Raven and then the Dove, which returns the second time it is sent, with an olive leaf in it’s mouth.In the Pagan world, sacred Doves are usually associated with their “Sepulchral” cults. The “Dove Shrines” for example of ancient Mycenrea are also connected with their, and the use of , “Sacred Trees,” and “Pillars.” In Christian art however, The Dove is the Symbol of the Holy Ghost. And it’s use is usually pre-eminently the emblem of the soul, and is thus seen issuing from the lips of dying martyrs.As Symbolising the Holy Spirit it Hovers about the Virgin, and was also given to certain saints, who were believed to be Divinely inspired.The White Dove has traditionally been a symbol of peace and safety since ancient times.In the Pagan world, Birds not only symbolized the soul, sun, wind, storms, Fecundity, growth, and immortality, but were also the “Fates.” And certain birds had the gifts of “presage,” and “ill omen,” and “death,” etc..,Paraphrased and slighty alterd from an online article by Jennifer Emmick."And as I have prefaced above, has anyone hear also seen any end time symbolism in the Narative. I have seen some possible use of end time symbolism in the narative Myself, but this thread is not about any conclusions I may or May not have made.And these subsequent explainatory posts I have made to My original thread is only to point out I chose that "Pivitol," text because of the richness of possible symbolism found, so as to explain that we should not get "hung up," over, or argue over that text if no one finds any end time aplications for it, but rather that we present events as we see them.Therefore I do not want us to be mired by any texts we do not see as applicable in the list, but that we simply move on to what we feel is relelvant in the list, as I pose no conclusions here other than a list, for You to present Your conclusions, and want to start no controversy over any implications of a starting list of passages I have given You to work with.May Christ Richly Bless Those Who Truly Love Him, Amen. :bible::study: :shepard:
Quoted From post By "Cooolway" :"The Earth is degenerating today.Bribery and corruption abound.Children no longer obey their parents,every man wants to write a book, andit is evident that the end of the world is fast approaching."Assyrian tablet, c. 2800 BCEQuoted From post by "Mighty Bear" :“The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed, nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There!’ for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you.” (Luke 17:20-21)Both were quoted from an end times thread showing that it has allways been observed that the end is nigh. However does not the premise of the Kingdom of God having been established as being here for those who believe, and belong to Christ, have to be qualified from end times events????? And even though Chicken Little may have allways said "The Sky is Falling, The Sky is Falling," are we not to take the end times events as an obligation to understand and have a theory of, from our study of scripture???And in this starter series of posts in My Thread, I am in no way implying What other possibly-Evangelical Brother posts ( I am sorry to say I don't know their work yet, and thus have no knowledge how they stand on anything - and only wish to remain truly nuetral on anything they may or may not have ever said ), may or may not have meant by their posts, nor do I intend to put words in their mouths, but rather am attempting to inspire Your "Takes," and "Explainations," ( and My hope that certain previously ignored texts may or may not fit into your take on things ??? )And therefore I am not attempting to only cover, already covered ground to no purpose, but am genuinly interested in, if there are any change of opinions, or explainations I am not aware of, and would deeply apreciate, for Myself, as well as all of Us, any elucidation on the subject of end times prophecy and events.I thanky You again for Your time,And May Christ Richly Bless Those Who Truly Love Him, Amen. :bible::study: :shepard:
I posed this topic to see what take others may have on end times events. I do not want to pose any interpretations, as I am asking for views on texts given. However as the mix may have confused some, if I may I will disscuss a few O.T. texts, to see if from the very beginning if texts hinted at Christ, the Bible, and End Times events, if I may:1st) In Gen 3:15 It has been pointed out that the "Seed" of the Woman mentioned is in the singular, while the "Seed" of the Seprent is plural.2nd) It has been pointed out in "Symbolism," and "Type," that the details of the account of Noah as given in Gen 8:7-12 "....and he sent out a raven, and it flew here and there until the water was dried up from the earth. Then he sent out a dove from him, to see if the water was abated from the face of the land; but the dove found no resting place for the sole of her foot, so she returned to him into the ark; for the water was on the surface of all the earth. Then he put out his hand and took her, and brought her into the ark to himself. So he waited yet another seven days; and again he sent out the dove from the ark. And the dove came to him toward evening; and behold, in her beak was a freshly picked olive leaf. So Noah knew that the water was abated from the earth. Then he waited yet another seven days, and sent out the dove; but she did not return to him again."So let Us now look at the traditional symbolism of the account given: and as type/and symbolism a story/or thing stands outside of place and time/ and thus is usualy not 100% perfect in the context of it's story, if for example part of the symbolism witnesses to the need of faith, which Noah already had exhibited, unless it were to mean to a deeper lever, for example:A) The waters = the old world system/ways = sin.
The Raven = satan &= his witness to Noah, rejected by Noah, so it seeks to fly over the "waters beneath" to seek out new and willing homes.C) The Dove =the witness of the Holy Spirit =sent out by Noah =sent to complete it's mission over the "lower waters" of life to witness salvation thru faith to Noah. But the Dove found no dry ground -as Noah faces the question of righteousness thru faith. And the witness of the Dove returns to Noah.D) The Seven Days = rest = completion of an elements puropse at that stage of the story/ symbolism/type.E) And Again He sent out the Dove = symbolising He had responded to the witness of the Holy Spirit, and the Dove=Holy Spirit returns with the Olive Leaf = Christ and they dwelt with those who accepted Christ thru faith.F) The Seven Days = rest = the Indwelling of the Spirit of God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is complete.G) The Dove again being released = witness to the Fact that, even with the Indwelling, that God Rules from Heaven Above.But as often the case all elements, though they May be almost 100%, if not 100% right on target to some, may seem almost perfect only to others: As does the story also have a Second witness in Symbolism and Type, not only witnessing "Salvation," but the 1st and 2nd Commings of Christ, and are thus prophecy of that as well:A) The waters = old world system/ways = sin. = the world of the "Tares," which we must endure as Wheat.
The Raven = satan & = his witness to the lost world of "Wheat," and "Tares," hoping the tares will only foccuss on the waters beneath of sin and death, and not seek salvation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!C) The Dove's 1st occurance= the "Preterist" view of Revelation, which holds the the book of Revelation had been fully completed in the early history of the Church, holding to that interpretation to see "The Kingdom of Heaven," as being complete -which it is Eph 2:4-10, but in which it is not now fully realised as being perfect in it's aparent fullfillment on earth, because of the "Tares," which grow amongst the "Wheat," and thus that perfection is realised to the extent that the "Indwellings" of God in our renewed Heart, etc.., brings Us up Eph 2:6, rather than brings the totality of the perfection of the Kingdom of God down here among the tares --- And so the "Witness" of the Dove/kingdom's appearance is not complete, and thus the Dove returns to Noah/Us.D) The Seven days = rest = acceptance of what ( in point "C" cannot be ).E) The Dove & Olive Branch = Our understanding seeking the deeper things of God, in the Spirit, and how can these things be = the "Historic" and the "Idealist" views of Revelation -which sees a building up of a historic fullfillment of portions of revelation in the ongoing "History" of the Church thru time, and the "Idealist" interpretation seeing the "Spiritual," fullfillment of Revelation as being a continous and ongoing spiritual state of things, but which also does not seem to be the complete story either??????F) The Seven days =rest= acceptance of what ( in point "C," 'E" cannot be ).G) The Final Release of the Dove = Faith in the fact that the majority of Revelation must be fullfilled as a "Futurist" interpretation, in which only elements of, or the apearence of elements of the other "Three," theories must be only a part of the overall "Futurist," whole, or only the apearence of a viable theory -as the 1st Dove occurance having found no Dry Land, can only mean that the "Preterist," view can only be a missunderstanding of Ephesians 2:6, etc.., etc.., etc..,So now You can see why I included this text: for the appearance of O.T.revelations of God's plan -even though such mysteries as the inclusion ofthe Gentiles as co-heirs with the Jews, was not made known as clearlyunderstood at all -until such time as God revealed it as so ( not evencovering of cource what it means to be the remnant of the Jews/Israel ),because I am still waiting on Your take on prophecy??????? God did not hide these things from the beginning, but Our understanding of them even though is now only possible, once God's Revelation was made fully complete: So what is Your take on which ever one of the above mentionedScriptures You may wish to use or not, including My "Multiple," meanings ofthe application of the pivitol, and Key story of Noah, in the "Prophetic" naration as a whole????????????????May Christ Richly Bless Those Who Truly Love Him, Amen.:bible:Mike.:study:
Though your explation for waters is somewhat correct I find it much more acurate and understandable when we let the scriptures interpet themselvesRev 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the ***** sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. Its better when we can to let scripture interpt scriptureGod Bless
And in addition to the above mentioned texts so far given, which include some O.T. texts which possibly show how God had planned to be incharge of His Word from the beginning:1) Before the Bible was Broken down into "Chapter" and "Verse," God's reveltaion was so "Perfect as to establish several key elements of Symbolism and Type into His Word: For Example in establishing "Number," in Scripture, God established the Number-5 as meaning Grace, while the Number-8 means New Beginnings; so Noah's name realy being Noach in the Hebrew only contains 2 letters "N" = 50 = ( 5 * 10 ) = ( grace * Perfect Divine Order ), and "Ch" = 8 = New beginnings.2) And in addition, when God creates a "Value," to something in Scripture, numerical or otherwise; God is also showing the defeat of the enemy, and contrasting the works of the Enemy; So We do not know if the Number 5 would have meant Grace to God, before or after what Lucifer had done in the following; but as the number 5 is Grace by God's design it clearly contrasts what the enemy had done ----because the Enemy had created the 5 "I will's of Isaiah 14:12-15 ( mixed reading ) "How you have fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, You who have weakened the nations! 'But you said in your heart, 'I will ascend to heaven; 'I will raise my throne above the stars of God, 'and I will sit on the mount of assembly in the recesses of the north, 'I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; 'I will make myself like the Most High. Nevertheless you will be thrust down to Sheol, to the recesses of the pit..."3) And like I said, before God established the divisions of the Bible into a combination of O.T. and N.T., and with a division of "Chapters and Verse," God established a witness of Grace, of His perfect intentions:A) God gave Jeremiah the inspiration for the Book of Lamentations maybee around 586 B.C.
Lamentations contains 5 Chapters = -----( and 5 = Grace )C) Each of the verses of the 1st 4-Chapters of Lamentations are written in "Acrostics," meaning each verse starts with each subsequent letter, of the 22 initial letters of the hebrew Alphabet
) Only the 3rd chapter of Lamentations starts using a new Hebrew letter every 3rd verse, so:E)*****when "Verses" were begun to be assigned to the Bible, because the "Acrostics" of Lamentations created a ready made guide, the veses of the 5 chapters of Lamentations is counted as following:1) Chapter 1 has 22 verses2) Chapter 2 has 22 verses3) Chapter 3 has 66 verses4) Chapter 4 has 22 verses5) Chapter 5 has 22 versesF) So in the Center of Lamentations God anticiptated the 66 verses, as representing the 66 Chapters which the Book of Isaiah would be divided into,and the 66 Books of the Protestant Bible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!and other usage of 66 to forshadow God's plan was Genesis 46:26 "All the persons belonging to Jacob, who came to Egypt, his direct descendants, not including the wives of Jacob's sons were sixty-six persons in all..."G) So God can and has planned the use of 66, but despises it when, like the Raven which represents lucifer/satan, who are looking bacwards to the "Old" "waters beneath," of their sin of death -and who convinces the lost world to revese engineer a pseudo-restored-garden-of-eden, who look backwards to spiritualy think they are reversing the flood of Noah, which occured in the 600th year of His life, they combine the 66 of blessing with the reversed-600 of death and curse to create : 666 the number of the beast.H) However with the 1st 4-Chapters being the only ones which are "Acrostics," the1) 1st Chapter = 22 verses2) 2nd Chapter = 22 verses3) 3rd Chapter = 66 verses4) 4th Chapter = 22 verses.I see the 22+22+22 = the 66 books of roughly three divisions of I) books 1-22= Law/psalms/writtings, II) books 23-44 = prophets/gosples/acts, III) books 45-66 = the rest/epistles thru to revelation, and thus 3 major divisions being anticipated,I) also the 66 of Chapter 3 ----existing between the 2nd and 3rd divisions, = the "Acrostics," of Lamentations ( with the 3rd chapter having 66 verses ), found ( as the 3rd book ) within the prophetic books, and the Book of Isaiah consisting of 66 Chapters, also being the 1st of the prophetic books.J) and then there is the "Enigmatic," 5th chapter of Lamentations, also consisting of 22 verses, but not as an "Acrostic," in which each of the subsequent verses would start with the subsequent letters of the Hebrew alphabet ----thus being 22 verses in length /but not an acrostic within the book, is obviously related but different =the 66th book of the Bible, or the 22 chapters of Revelation, sohowing,K) 22+22+22=66 /=the 66 also of the 3rd cahpter, and the ( last 22 verses, not being acrostics, = the 22 chapter of revelation, which sums up the entire prophetic nature of the scriptures, and thus being of the rest of them, and the 66 books of a whole ---but being of a differnt nature ). Now to see the numerical plan God has laid out in His Bible, as "Number In Scripture," as is used in "Type," and "Symbolisim," does not mean a litteral one-to-one corespondance with Type A) and Object
---and thus the beauty of Symbolism of "Symbols," and "Types," just as "Parables," are also symbolic stories, ment to convey a deeper meaning, other than just the telling of a story for story sake,So with that NO DIRECT ONE-TO-ONE CORESPONDANCE RULE for Symbols and Types, ONE CANNOT LOOK FURTHER INTO CREATING FURTHER CONNECTIONS, AND CORESPONDANCES between Lamentations 5, and Revelations.********But these are just some of the things I see in "Symbol," and "Type," which while HIGHLY USEFULL TO SHOW GOD IS INDEED INCHARGE, AND ANTICIPATES SUCH PROBLEMS AS THE 4 INTERPRETATIONS OF REVELATIONS CREATING PROBLEMS, UNLESS THE WITNESS OF NOAH IN TYPE SHOWS THE FUTURIST INTERPRETATION IS THE MOST CORRECT,then one would be correct, and NOT ABUSE-THE-MEANING-AND-SOMETIMES-USAGE-OF SYMBOL-AND-TYPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!So when not abused /used incorrectly, how do You interpret the events of Prophecy, also seeing that God has anticipated the problems a believer will encounter, but uses the Symbol and Type, to show Us to be Bold, and Do not compromise Your Faith and Convictions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!May Christ Richly Bless Those Who Truly Love Him, Amen :bible:Mike. :study:
) Only the 3rd chapter of Lamentations starts using a new Hebrew letter every 3rd verse, so:E)*****when "Verses" were begun to be assigned to the Bible, because the "Acrostics" of Lamentations created a ready made guide, the veses of the 5 chapters of Lamentations is counted as following:1) Chapter 1 has 22 verses2) Chapter 2 has 22 verses3) Chapter 3 has 66 verses4) Chapter 4 has 22 verses5) Chapter 5 has 22 versesF) So in the Center of Lamentations God anticiptated the 66 verses, as representing the 66 Chapters which the Book of Isaiah would be divided into,and the 66 Books of the Protestant Bible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!and other usage of 66 to forshadow God's plan was Genesis 46:26 "All the persons belonging to Jacob, who came to Egypt, his direct descendants, not including the wives of Jacob's sons were sixty-six persons in all..."G) So God can and has planned the use of 66, but despises it when, like the Raven which represents lucifer/satan, who are looking bacwards to the "Old" "waters beneath," of their sin of death -and who convinces the lost world to revese engineer a pseudo-restored-garden-of-eden, who look backwards to spiritualy think they are reversing the flood of Noah, which occured in the 600th year of His life, they combine the 66 of blessing with the reversed-600 of death and curse to create : 666 the number of the beast.H) However with the 1st 4-Chapters being the only ones which are "Acrostics," the1) 1st Chapter = 22 verses2) 2nd Chapter = 22 verses3) 3rd Chapter = 66 verses4) 4th Chapter = 22 verses.I see the 22+22+22 = the 66 books of roughly three divisions of I) books 1-22= Law/psalms/writtings, II) books 23-44 = prophets/gosples/acts, III) books 45-66 = the rest/epistles thru to revelation, and thus 3 major divisions being anticipated,I) also the 66 of Chapter 3 ----existing between the 2nd and 3rd divisions, = the "Acrostics," of Lamentations ( with the 3rd chapter having 66 verses ), found ( as the 3rd book ) within the prophetic books, and the Book of Isaiah consisting of 66 Chapters, also being the 1st of the prophetic books.J) and then there is the "Enigmatic," 5th chapter of Lamentations, also consisting of 22 verses, but not as an "Acrostic," in which each of the subsequent verses would start with the subsequent letters of the Hebrew alphabet ----thus being 22 verses in length /but not an acrostic within the book, is obviously related but different =the 66th book of the Bible, or the 22 chapters of Revelation, sohowing,K) 22+22+22=66 /=the 66 also of the 3rd cahpter, and the ( last 22 verses, not being acrostics, = the 22 chapter of revelation, which sums up the entire prophetic nature of the scriptures, and thus being of the rest of them, and the 66 books of a whole ---but being of a differnt nature ). Now to see the numerical plan God has laid out in His Bible, as "Number In Scripture," as is used in "Type," and "Symbolisim," does not mean a litteral one-to-one corespondance with Type A) and Object
Kriss: of Course I can not argue against the seperate usage of water in Revelation, Isaiah and elsewhere, but was using Genesis story as a specific prophetic "Type," which has to be "seen," and "Interpreted," from the story, but as such, does it face and stand up to criticism???????????Or again does it or does it not have to meet The Criticism You posed, and interesting question???????? does a "Type," which goes in a different direction than another scripture, mean it is saying so in such a way as to contradict that new scripture, I personaly think Not. Are their not a different set of apocalyptic horse descriptions in Zechariah 1:8-17, which may complement the 4 horsemen in Revelation 6:1-8, and still Types are seen and taken from stories, and as such are specific, and do not have to equal each and every other use of a particular term. If the Waters of the flood in the Story have to and only have to be the same as used in Revelation, then one may either have to modify My type????, or conclude that it is wrong????? And no matter how the two Horse-passages may or may not be related, why does the water drying up in the story of Noah, as is used in My "Type," anyway contradictory of revelation's use of water in anyway I ask???But why do they have to be the same useage "In The Type," so derived by Me, and yet the passages can also be linked in type again with identical meanings as You would prefer to see?????????So I have also given examples of "Type," and Revelation from the Book of Lamentations, which also asks the question of Why does a "type," have to be perfect in every respect, when a "Type," by nature can be of different catergories a) The Perfect Type, and
the aproximate Type, etc..,I see in Lamentations no implication to take the numerical analysis too far, and yet I see it is there??????????Why can not the analysis be more perfect than I am able to see, and therefore I only see something, and point the way, and someone else fixes it???????????And yes I can be wrong, just as much as I can be right ( or maybee wrong even more so )So thanky You for responding, as I want other opinions and takes on prophecy, and events, even if it were to mean rejection of My Noah and Lamentaion "Types,"So for all who disagree or agree with the texts for thought I have provided, I thank You for either agreeing or disagreeing with Me, as I seek refinements of understanding, no matter who is the smartest kid on the block ( because our being the smartest kid, while not important in the least - but the insights so provided are !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)So we come here to express our take on Scripture, and see where we agree, and disagree, and I do not, and will not attempt to answer many of the posts at all, but am interested in what everyone has to say????????????I am only adding this update to apologize once again for My poor ability to express Myself when I am more tired and run down, and am better at expressing Myself when I am not: because I believe I have knowledge -which it is My pleasure to share -and others have knowledge which it is their pleasure to share, all for the glory of Christ. But when I can not challenge My writing to be better, I try to challenge others for their writings to make up where I lack. And there are strict rules for use of symbol and type which are even more strict and difficult, than straightfoward passage investigation. Because the proper discovery of "Type," and "Symbol," which God has intended must stand an even stronger test than usual, but You know it's right when God's Spirit convicts You it is right, and others also "get it," and get the same conviction. I believe My poor ability to polish My presentation /and sometimes think My type and symbol presentations thru, when tired, makes Me do a poor job with some of My expression or "prose," and sometimes with details ----however when I come off trying to sound I am correcting Kriss, when I instead am trying to inspire a further need for Kriss to continue and elaborate /so We can all see the strngths and weaknesses of My poor grasp and expression at times -so a stronger theory will result. And I guess when I try to inspire others to recieve a nudge from Me to say more themselves, by Me arguing fine point details of correction and update to what I see in My head, but what I can not seem to say, I certainly don't want to scare away responses to My posts -not that Kriss expresses a fear to figth for the best post and response he can -because it should never be about Us fighting eachother -but for the best expression of our ideas, so they may Stand or Fall, upon Us having given them their best shot. And if I am able to correct these last few posts, so as to make them flow with "Eloquent Expression," then I will pull this apology as not being neccessary, if I am able to correct My expression, and so as also to sound like I am not hurt, and going after points Kriss makes as being hurt or missunderstood, but rather I go after only select points He makes, because I am confident that His corrections, express better than mine, and He is at this juncture a better writter than I, and therefore is able to get the point accross of multiple usage, when I bring it up to show My expression of one usage for example, makes it seem like I do not understand othere usage in places such as Revelation and Types in the Narative of Noah complimenting the "Typing" I have found in Noah -but I should have foreseen the need to state that that in and of itself does not negate the straightfoward use of meaning in Revelation, with it's own meaning, which is not qualified, or corrected by the earlier "Typing," usage in Noah - but when I try and say so, I come across like I am writting stereo instructions ( Beetlejuice movie ). So Iactualy apreciate the challenge of forcing Us to qualify My poor use of the English language ---when it sounds like I am writting stereo instructions. And I will correct My posts ----for clarity sake only, when I am able to walk away, and look back and see what I have done.God Bless :bible:Mike
I wasn't criticizing you mike rather expanding upon what you had said to put it more biblical context Genesis is absolutely directly related to Revelation they are the beginning and the end the alpha and the omega. They are complementary books one is related to the other so perfectly within biblical structure to use one to explain the other. Thats why I say there is structure rules to the bible interpreting itself that keeps it in context as to what is being shown to us. (see bible appendix below) http://www.angelfire.com/nv/TheOliveBranch/append3.htmlAnd as far as your symbol/types like waters yes we do have to use the biblical explanations its how God teaches if you could just put your own types of symbols or explanations on them your not getting Gods word you are getting your interpretation of Gods word. Types are little more open to interpetation but must have a biblical orginal to type it to. Examples:antichrist= Hitler type of antichrist (an obvious opinion)/Jonah in the whale belly = type of Christ in the tomb(biblical type)If you notice God always uses the same symbols stars are angels,men/nations are trees ,waters are people,field is the world,seed is the Word ect. when he isnt using it as a symbol its litteral. If we dont have rules to follow in interpeting it just becomes disjoined factsThat being said the symbols/types can have expanded meanings but we must stick to the basic for contextExample: a star = an angel,the angel can be: evil, good, fallen, upright, but if we lose the basic thought that we are discussing an angel we lose the context.
we are going into prophecy.Zechariah 1:8 "I saw by night, and behold a man riding upon a red horse, and he stood among the myrtle trees that were in the bottom; and behind him were there red horses, speckled [sorrel], and white."The "bottom" is "in the valley". This verse should be bring our attention to Revelation 6. We see here a man riding on a re horse. However, this is not a man of war, but this man riding the red horse is a scout. Why then do we see this scout standing amongst the myrtle trees? We are told in Nehemiah 8:15 that the myrtle tree's branches were used in the "feast of the tabernacles", also called the "feast of the harvest [or scooths]". Those branches were used because of their odor, and to dress up the booths. So we see Zachariah is drawing our attention to the use of these "feast of harvest" times, and connecting them to this end time prophecy, with the man on the red horse.The end time harvestThe man is an angel of God, scouting all earthly kingdoms.Zechariah 1:9 "Then said I, O my lord, what are these? And the angel that talked with me said unto me, I will shew thee what these be."Zechariah 1:10 "And the man stood among the myrtle trees answered and said, These are they whom the Lord hath sent to walk to and fro through the earth."This man that God sent to walk between the myrtle trees is riding the red horse. He is sent on a mission to scout out the nations of the earth. He is to check the times, and actions of the peoples on the earth to see if it is time to pull the plug, and allow the end times events to start. The harvest to begin the tares are first to be gathered.This man is to see all those that have returned to God, and those that have not not.
Here we see the continuation of the same subject but a different view of it this is what is happing on earth where above we are told what events the scout is watching for here we see the action of the event taking place on earthRevelation 6:4 "And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword."The term "red" in the Scriptures has two meanings, "war", and "Esau". We are living in the time of the end, and as such, lets take a special look at Esau [Russia, or Rosh]. "Power was given to take peace from the earth." True peace is that peace that comes only from God, through our Lord Jesus Christ.This second rider on the "red" [Esau] horse is out to remove "Christ, and the living God from the earth". Under this [red] rider, he will come in peacefully, but will remove Christ from every fabric of your life. The time of war is over, for Russia fell in one day so the terms between the Russian people and Israel [the Christian nations] are considered peaceable. This war of deception is well underway, and it will be fierce. You simply will not stand against the rider of the red horse, unless you are prepared with your armor completely on and in place, and mentally ready for their spiritual attacks [see Ephesians 6:10-20
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