Pray Instead?

[Lute]

recently i have seen a lot of posts an threads about president Obama. almost all are negative an have mostly put downs in them. has anyone thought to pray for the man? like idk maybe the people that prayed for me when i was in sin and rebellion. the people that loved me prayed for me. they didnt put me down an say oh he is no good lets be glad he is gone. it is my understanding that God is in control(over even the president). and if this country is in a downhill spiral its the peoples fault. not the governments. i see the degradation in the family as the most hurtful thing to this country. and the most important thing to turn around and change. we as a people have done this to ourselves. i say prayer is the thing that will most make a difference in this country. when we stop getting in all these drag out dog fights in politics over things that are ridiculous. i dont even pray that much. as much as i should. and im always trying to pray more and more. but one thing i know is that Obama does not need ridicule. he needs the one true God. and the only thing that will lead him to that is prayer by others. and the Word of God.


just my thoughts...

 

[Lute]

...so...nobody thinks we should pray for the guy...? i was hoping to get some input on this.

 

[Nomad]

...so...nobody thinks we should pray for the guy...? i was hoping to get some input on this.

Yes, we should pray for Obama. Praying for our leaders is thoroughly Biblical.

1Ti 2:1 First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people,
1Ti 2:2 for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way.

 

[[email protected]]

Yes, we should pray for Obama. Praying for our leaders is thoroughly Biblical.

1Ti 2:1 First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people,
1Ti 2:2 for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way.

Your attitude and your intentions are commendable, but your scripture quotations and your reality are skewed.

Isa 59:2 but your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, so that he will not hear.

Job 35:13 Surely God will not hear an empty cry, Neither will the Almighty regard it.

Amo 5:21 I hate, I despise your feasts, and I will take no delight in your solemn assemblies.

God WILL NOT hear the prayer of the sinner and the rebellious unless forgivess is first asked for and the fruit of repentance is visible.
In America today, we see evidence of neither.

For years, for years, for years we've all heard and read that we should pray for our leaders.
Exactly what are we to ask for?
Usually its for wisdom - that decisions may be made for the good of the country and in rightness of heart.

Instead of wisdom we have seen foolishness. Instead of actions for the good of the nation we've seen greed and corruption on a scale unheard of in human history.
The theme now is that America is too big to fall.
You've heard it and read it or at least know its the attitude of the day.....

Pro 16:18 Pride goeth before destruction, And a haughty spirit before a fall.

Does any truthful man deny that America is proud and vain?
Certainly God sees these things and certainly God has pronounced judgment against America.

The judgment is this;
#1 America has chosen the counsel of the foolish instead of the counsel of the Almighty.
Therefore God has abandoned us to foolishness.
Prayers for wisdom to be imparted to our leaders HAVE NOT been heard.
Don't believe it? Look around and tell us what you see.
When was the last time our leaders acted in wisdom on ANY subject?
When did ANY supposed solution WORK?
We always seem to be jumping out of the frying pan into the fire.

#2 America has chosen the path of arrogance and military power.
Therefore God has abandoned us to war.
We have not chosen the protection of God's mercy and the way of a humble heart.
Therefore God has abandoned us to a greater and greater lust for blood, bombs and destruction.
In the height of the Roman Empire, the Caesars established nearly forty foreign military bases.
In the great days of the British Empire nearly eighty foreign military bases were built.
The Pentagon has publicly admitted to over 780 foreign military bases and facilities (and some critics say there are more).
Do we really need a navy that is larger than the next 17 nations combined?

We as a nation are drunk on war.
Liberty is a gift from God, not a right, and we are losing ours as a result.

" Don't let anybody make you think that God chose America as His divine messianic force to be a sort of policeman of the whole world.
God has a way of standing before the nations with justice and it seems that I can hear God saying to America,
'You are too arrogant. If you don't change your ways I will rise up and break the back bone of your power.'"
Rev Martin Luther King Jr. (circa 1967)

What is the backbone of US power?
Money and military might.
Our economy is in ruins and fast approaching melt down. Our military is in deep trouble.
Listen to the vets returning from the wars in the middle east. Few bring encouraging news.
Vets speak the truth.
Our media and our government is lying to us. Things are not going well anywhere.

I do not pray for our leaders or our government.
I prefer to pray for a live body rather than a dead one.

The live body is composed of those who seek Christ in humility and in truth.
Many pray for those who are called by His name.

....and those prayers are being answered....
There are thousands of quiet revivals going on all over the country.
People are getting right with God and God is listening to their prayers and hastening to their aid.

There is hope today, but not in our corrupt and greedy government.
Our hope is in the power of real religion...
in the power of humbly and honestly seeking God...
and in the power of answered prayer and divine guidance.

All of the hours I've spent in prayer have been dedicated to God and His people.
I will not waste one second on our corrupt government or its leaders.

 

[Nomad]

Your attitude and your intentions are commendable, but your scripture quotations and your reality are skewed.

Isa 59:2 but your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, so that he will not hear.

Job 35:13 Surely God will not hear an empty cry, Neither will the Almighty regard it.

Amo 5:21 I hate, I despise your feasts, and I will take no delight in your solemn assemblies.

God WILL NOT hear the prayer of the sinner and the rebellious unless forgivess is first asked for and the fruit of repentance is visible.
In America today, we see evidence of neither.

Who said anything about God hearing the prayers of the unrepentant? The question asked by the OP concerns the propriety of believers offering prayer for President Obama, or any other leader for that matter. Paul tells us very plainly in 1 Timothy 2:1-2 that this is exactly what should be done. Your Scripture quotations do absolutely nothing to change this fact.

Your attempt to neutralize a very clear passage of Scripture with a barrage of irrelevant out-of-context texts, which are completely unrelated to the question at hand, shows that quite to the contrary of your charge, it's your Scripture quotations and reality that are 'skewed.'

 

[[email protected]]

Who said anything about God hearing the prayers of the unrepentant? The question asked by the OP concerns the propriety of believers offering prayer for President Obama, or any other leader for that matter. Paul tells us very plainly in 1 Timothy 2:1-2 that this is exactly what should be done. Your Scripture quotations do absolutely nothing to change this fact.

Your attempt to neutralize a very clear passage of Scripture with a barrage of irrelevant out-of-context texts, which are completely unrelated to the question at hand, shows that quite to the contrary of your charge, it's your Scripture quotations and reality that are 'skewed.'

That God does not hear the prayers of the unrepentant is a fact supported by experience and by scripture.
That God does not hear the prayers of the rebellious, the proud and the arrogant is also a fact, also supported by experience and by scripture.

The passage you quoted is relevant in times of Godly humble leadership. Those times for America are gone.
You can hang onto a fantasy of what America once was, or what we had hoped it would become, but you will be doing yourself a disservice.

Answer this question.
WHY ARE PRAYERS FOR LEADERSHIP WISDOM NOT BEING ANSWERED?
Do you deny that Washington is saturated in foolishness, greed and debauchery?

You can quote scripture all day to support your argument, but historic precedent and current events demands an answer.
Prayers for wisdom for our leaders have been raised up for decades. Have you no memory of this?
Yet these prayers are not answered. Why? Because they have not been heard.

God does not grant petitions of the rebellious, the unjust and the proud unless the attitude is FIRST adopted which cries out for forgiveness in the spirit of humility and repentance.

Scripture must be used to find answers.
If one uses it to support a bankrupt dogma, then the path taken will forever be darkened for it is not the way of truth.

Attacks on Obama or support of Obama are irrelevant and miopic. The problem is much wider and deeper than partisan regional politics.
Pray for the president if you wish, or do not pray for him that is your choice.
You can also choose to watch TV without plugging in the power, just don't complain when you don't see anything.

God indeed answers prayer, but not all prayers by all people for all reasons.
For prayer to be heard and answered it must be uttered according to God's will.
Scripture may be used to find God's will, it cannot be employed to force it.

 

[[email protected]]

if this country is in a downhill spiral its the peoples fault. not the governments.

Blind support of the government will not solve our problems.
Have you no memory of laws passed by cities and states according to the will of the PEOPLE - only to be overturned by the GOVERNMENT?

For example, here in Florida a bill was passed early in 2010 to put an amendment on the November ballet regarding Obama care.
It is the custom here that amendments to the Florida constitution be voted on BY THE PEOPLE. Passage requires 60% majority vote.

The amendment presented the issue to the citizens of Florida to accept or reject Obama's rule that everyone MUST buy medical insurance.
Seventeen states have already ruled against it.

A Federal judge ruled that the item had to be removed from the November ballot - effectively removing the right of citizens to vote on this issue.

GOVERNMENT is the oppressor and the originator of wickedness in America, NOT THE PEOPLE.

Government is and ought to be OF the people, BY the people, and FOR the people. Not the other way around.

Over and over again, the people of this nation have voted AGAINST policies which CONTINUE to be followed by our corrupt government.
Are you blind to this precedent or are you in favor of removing the rights of our citizens to vote and to influence policy?

It seems to me that you have a different agenda that that framed by our founding fathers and by the Bible.

 

[TexUs]

Your attitude and your intentions are commendable, but your scripture quotations and your reality are skewed.

Isa 59:2 but your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, so that he will not hear.

Job 35:13 Surely God will not hear an empty cry, Neither will the Almighty regard it.

Amo 5:21 I hate, I despise your feasts, and I will take no delight in your solemn assemblies.

God WILL NOT hear the prayer of the sinner and the rebellious unless forgivess is first asked for and the fruit of repentance is visible.

You cannot arrive at that conclusion based upon what you posted.

In fact, your argument contradicts itself. If God does not hear the prayer of the sinner, then he will also not hear the prayer asking for forgiveness.

Acts 10:4, prayers were heard.
Numbers 22:12, God hears the prayer of the rebellious. In fact, Peter labels Balaam a sinner in 2 Peter 2:15. And Jude 1:1.

I think you'll find a study of the context of the above-quoted passages will net you a different understanding than will quoting them out of context.

Certainly God sees these things and certainly God has pronounced judgment against America.

The judgment is this

I'm sorry but all of your assertions are laughable. You do not know the mind of God and I suggest you stop trying to proclaim whom he has and has not turned his anger to.

"This judgement is this", huh? You can now speak for God?

The passage you quoted is relevant in times of Godly humble leadership.

Please, show us where in 1 Timothy 2 this is found.

WHY ARE PRAYERS FOR LEADERSHIP WISDOM NOT BEING ANSWERED?

All prayers are answered, just not answered with the answer in which we seek. You can even see sinners (like Balaam) praying, and God does answer their prayers, but he doesn't answer them in the way the person was seeking.

Your entire assumption is, "God will answer my request exactly as I asked for it".

Do you suppose, looking at First Century Christians that actually saw Christ, these people were praying for Roman leadership? And yet, Nero still destroyed them. Why? Is it because they weren't heard, or is it because God's answer is greater than their own?

Have you no memory of laws passed by cities and states according to the will of the PEOPLE - only to be overturned by the GOVERNMENT?

For example, here in Florida a bill was passed early in 2010 to put an amendment on the November ballet regarding Obama care.
It is the custom here that amendments to the Florida constitution be voted on BY THE PEOPLE. Passage requires 60% majority vote.

The amendment presented the issue to the citizens of Florida to accept or reject Obama's rule that everyone MUST buy medical insurance.
Seventeen states have already ruled against it.

A Federal judge ruled that the item had to be removed from the November ballot - effectively removing the right of citizens to vote on this issue.

Please, stop lying to support your ramblings.
The FLORIDA Supreme Court removed the FLORIDA ballot question.
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/48315/20100901/florida-court-healthcare-obama.htm

 

[[email protected]]

?

 

[[email protected]]

In fact, your argument contradicts itself. If God does not hear the prayer of the sinner, then he will also not hear the prayer asking for forgiveness.

I didn't write that. Go back and read my post carefully.
A sinner must first repent and humbly petition God's forgiveness before other requests can be heard.

I'm sorry but all of your assertions are laughable. You do not know the mind of God and I suggest you stop trying to proclaim whom he has and has not turned his anger to.

This is a cry of the rebellious sinner often heard in these wicked days.
Despite the clear invocation of the word of God, the wicked claims (as Satan did in the Garden) that God did not say it or that one did not hear it.
The mind of God is clearly revealed in His word and in history.
If I cease to proclaim what I see and know God to be doing, I shall become as debauched as those who deny it outright.

"This judgement is this", huh? You can now speak for God?

Again you reveal that you failed to read my post.
Do you not see what is happening in the world?
Do you not read the newspapers, listen to the reports on TV and radio, and in magazines?
It doesn't take a prophet or a rocket scientist to see what is happening and why.

It does take a deluded mind to reject all this and claim it can't and isn't happening.
The attitude is not unlike that of many passengers aboard Titanic who refused to believe that the ship was sinking until it was too late.
BTW that too was a judgment of God and it doesn't take a seer to pick up on that either.

Please, stop lying to support your ramblings.
The FLORIDA Supreme Court removed the FLORIDA ballot question.
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/48315/20100901/florida-court-healthcare-obama.htm

According to my representative in the legislature it was a Circuit Court judge who threw it out on July 29th.
Circuit court is one of four types of courts in Florida including Supreme Court, District Courts of Appeal and County Courts.

I misquoted my representative. You referenced an inaccurate news item.

Does it make any difference which court takes away one's right to vote?

This debate boils down to two central issues.

- Why are you opposed to citizens rights?
- Why do you so vehemently deny that God is capable or intentioned of judgment?

Your replies refuse to consider these two important points.

Why?

 

[TexUs]

I didn't write that. Go back and read my post carefully.
A sinner must first repent and humbly petition God's forgiveness before other requests can be heard.

So God CAN hear the sinner's prayers.

The mind of God is clearly revealed in His word and in history.

I'm sorry, I don't recall America being mentioned. Care to provide the reference?

Again you reveal that you failed to read my post.
Do you not see what is happening in the world?

I can give a flying flip what's going on in the world. Who are you, tiny brained human, to proclaim America's circumstances are the judgement of God?

I misquoted my representative.

How convenient.

Does it make any difference which court takes away one's right to vote?

Yes, because your argument is that they are unconstitutionally and oppressively shutting that ballot initiative down. That'd be true if it was a FEDERAL judge, but since that was a "misquote", the fact it was a FLORIDA court places the entire thing in both constitutional and legal standing.
You don't like the way Florida works, move to a different state, or elect different judges. Easy as that.

- Why are you opposed to citizens rights?
- Why do you so vehemently deny that God is capable or intentioned of judgment?

Your rights as a citizen including voting the people out and trying the ballot initiative again. Nobody has messed with your rights. It's your failure to understand your rights that you're basing your argument on.
Where did I deny God is capable of judgement? That's as much crap as you trying to speak for God.

 

[Foreigner]

Meanwhile, back at the ranch...


Yes, we should pray for our President and elected leaders, whether we voted for them or support them.

Pray that they are granted wisdom and strength so that what is best for all comes to pass.


If you for some reason strongly dislike an elected oficial, you should still pray for them.

Are we not required to pray for our enemies?

 

[Lute]

eeeek... O.O im sorry rjp34652, but after reading your posts i doubt your salvation very much.and that makes me sad. im none to judge but i call it as i see it. my bible says in romans 12 20,21 "therefore if your enemy is hungry feed him; if he is thirsty give him a drink; for in so doing you will heap coals upon his head". do not be overcome by evil; but overcome evil with Good.>>>on to chapter 13>>> let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. for there is no authority except from God. and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. therefore whoever resists the authority; resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves."


unless obama is forcing people to sin. and go against God. then we should not speak evil of him. if he does something evil or is in sin we should by all means point it out for sure. but we are not to get angry with him or hate him in our hearts. that is wrong to assume judgment over circumstances. we need to love him and pray without ceasing.

 

[[email protected]]

...so...nobody thinks we should pray for the guy...? i was hoping to get some input on this.

Yes. God bless him and keep him.....FAR AWAY FROM ME.

 

[[email protected]]

Meanwhile, back at the ranch...


Yes, we should pray for our President and elected leaders, whether we voted for them or support them.

Pray that they are granted wisdom and strength so that what is best for all comes to pass.


If you for some reason strongly dislike an elected oficial, you should still pray for them.

Are we not required to pray for our enemies?

If government is under the ordinance of God, it is also under the judgment of the most high.

If it is wrong and we acknowledge the righteousness of God, ought we not to oppose it?

Nationalism aside, we need to weigh what our leaders are doing and act accordingly.

Pray for them that despitefully use us - pray that they get a stiff prison term - pray for justice.

Pray for deliverance.

 

[Angelina]

Hi Lute!

...so...nobody thinks we should pray for the guy...? i was hoping to get some input on this.

I think that we should always pray for our leaders and more so...for those who are in authoritative positions like the President of your country. He, like so many others, are just puppets for the ushering in, of the NWO

Jude 1
21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
22 And of some have compassion, [G1653 - eleeō] making a difference: [G1252 - diakrinō]
23 And others save [G4982 - sōzo] with fear, pulling [G726 - harpazō] them out of the fire;[G4442 - pur] hating [G3404 - miseō] even the garment spotted[G4696 - spilos] by the flesh.[G4561 - sarx]


G1653 eleeō - compassion
From G1656; to compassionate (by word or deed, specifically by divine grace)have compassion (pity on), have (obtain, receive, shew) mercy (on).

G1252 diakrinō - difference
From G1223 and G2919; to separate thoroughly, that is, (literally and reflexively) to withdraw from, or (by implication) oppose; figuratively to discriminate (by implication decide), or (reflexively) hesitate: - contend, make (to) differ (-ence), discern, doubt, judge, be partial, stagger, waver.

G4982 sōzō - save
From a primary word σῶς sōs̄ (contraction for the obsolete σάος saos, “safe”); to save, that is, deliver or protect (literally or figuratively): - heal, preserve, save (self), do well, be (make) whole.

G4442 pur - fire
A primary word; “fire” (literally or figuratively, specifically lightning): - fiery, fire.

G4696 spilos - spotted
Of uncertain derivation; a stain or blemish, that is, (figuratively) defect, disgrace: - spot.

G4561 sarx - flesh
Probably from the base of G4563; flesh (as stripped of the skin), that is, (strictly) the meat of an animal (as food), or (by extension) the body (as opposed to the soul (or spirit), or as the symbol of what is external, or as the means of kindred, or (by implication) human nature (with its frailties (physically or morally) and passions), or (specifically) a human being (as such): - carnal (-ly, + -ly minded), flesh ([-ly]).

G726 harpazō - pulling
From a derivative of G138; to seize (in various applications): - catch (away, up), pluck, pull, take (by force).

G3404 miseō - hating
From a primary word μῖσος misos (hatred); to detest (especially to persecute); by extension to love less: - hate (-ful).

Blessings!

 

[calbhach]

...so...nobody thinks we should pray for the guy...? i was hoping to get some input on this.

I totally agree. While people may be angry at his actions, prayer is the best thing we can do to help him!

 

[burningfire]

If government is under the ordinance of God, it is also under the judgment of the most high.

If it is wrong and we acknowledge the righteousness of God, ought we not to oppose it?

Nationalism aside, we need to weigh what our leaders are doing and act accordingly.

Pray for them that despitefully use us - pray that they get a stiff prison term - pray for justice.

Pray for deliverance.

It is not our choice for how God specifically deals with them. In truth, we should pray for our leaders to come to realization of Christ as their Lord and Savior. Pray for a disciple of Christ is placed in the way of the leaders to share the love of Christ. Ask God to show favor on those who love Him, even though this country, as a whole, does not. I do not want to pray for a stiff prison term, because then that means more of my money is going towards people's imprisonment. I would pray for our leaders to fall and repent and full acknowledge Christ as their Savior. Remember, God places authority in place to fulfill His plan. Our current administration is there for a reason. I agree with your first sentence though, that our government is under the ordinance of God, so yes, they are also under the judgment of God, meaning that the nation as a whole will be judged because of our government's actions against God. That does not mean that individuals will be judged the same way. God can, and will, bless those that love Him.

God judges, not us. Just because you feel that they deserve a prison term, does not mean that God feels the same way. The end is not here quite yet, God can still turn this country around. How big is your faith? Is it big enough to believe God to turn this country around, or do we just throw our hands up in the air and ride the wave and do nothing about it?

 

[aspen]

recently i have seen a lot of posts an threads about president Obama. almost all are negative an have mostly put downs in them. has anyone thought to pray for the man? like idk maybe the people that prayed for me when i was in sin and rebellion. the people that loved me prayed for me. they didnt put me down an say oh he is no good lets be glad he is gone. it is my understanding that God is in control(over even the president). and if this country is in a downhill spiral its the peoples fault. not the governments. i see the degradation in the family as the most hurtful thing to this country. and the most important thing to turn around and change. we as a people have done this to ourselves. i say prayer is the thing that will most make a difference in this country. when we stop getting in all these drag out dog fights in politics over things that are ridiculous. i dont even pray that much. as much as i should. and im always trying to pray more and more. but one thing i know is that Obama does not need ridicule. he needs the one true God. and the only thing that will lead him to that is prayer by others. and the Word of God.


just my thoughts...

Lute - God Bless you!

What an awesome idea! You know, I disagreed with the former President on practically all accounts, but I never prayed for him - never. I was wrong. I was angry and let my anger dictate my faith in regard to the man behind the office - shame on me.

Frankly, I have been placed in impossible situations in my life that are much less important that the Presidency and I felt so alone!

No matter what political party - no matter have we feel about policy - we are called to pray for our leaders. I will start with my state leaders, whom I disagree with, but God allowed to be in office for a reason.

 

[Disciple]

Thanks angelina for the post! was very helpful.