Pre-Trib Rapture Danger To Your Soul

[The Light]

We all know Israel is there again, but so many won't let go of their views that arose from disbelief, and that require changing the meanings of many many Scriptures.

You would think this idea that the Church had replaced Israel would have disappeared when the nation of Israel was reborn. Instead, this following of unbelieving men has spread like leprosy. They don't seem to understand that they are the foolish virgins. That door will be shut soon.

Following unbelieving men should be their first clue that the doctrine is false. It is reasonable to think that unbelievers would be honored by God to carry the correct doctrine? I don't think so.

 

[marks]

You would think this idea that the Church had replaced Israel would have disappeared when the nation of Israel was reborn.

Look at how much is invested in that idea, though. Institutional church organizations have been incorporating that for a long time. I think of "the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience", that is to say, there is a spirit working in the disobedient, called "the power of the air", which has a ruler, a prince "archon".

Perhaps that spirit, perhaps that ruler, perhaps they may have a stake in subverting the teaching concerning God's chosen nation? His promises to His people?

Much love!

 

[Only One King]

It's still not about a Pre-trib Rapture though. God's Word does not contradict itself, because it was given by The Holy Spirit.

Jesus revealed that the time of His coming and gathering of His saints will be AFTER... the tribulation, as written in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27. And those 2 Scripture evidences directly parallel what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 4 about the day of Christ's coming to gather His Church, on the LAST DAY of this world. Paul reveals it will happen on the LAST DAY, because he showed the "asleep" saints must be RESURRECTED FIRST per 1 Thess.4:16. The future resurrection only happens on the last day of this world, which is when Jesus comes, NOT prior to the great tribulation like man's false pre-trib rapture theory teaches (also see John 5:28-29 by Lord Jesus).



The false Pre-trib Rapture School loves to misinterpret that too. The Greek for the KJV word "mansions" there is simply a word that means 'abodes', or chambers.

What Lord Jesus was pointing to are the chambers of the priests in God's House described in Ezekiel 40 forward regarding Christ's future "thousand years" temple on earth. I'm sure many of the Pre-trib Rapture school scholars know about this, and probably hope most of their deceived believers never open up their Old Testament and study about those priest's chambers in God's House written of in the Book of Ezekiel.

I even had a friend who went to a Pre-trib Rapture Church that even taught those Ezekiel 40 thru 48 chapter line upon line, and STILL missed the John 14 link of those priest's chambers in Christ's future Millennial temple called there God's House!



FALSE. All that is MADE UP and is NOT written anywhere in God's Word.

Lord Jesus and Apostle Paul especially revealed that His Church will... go through the coming "great tribulation", and told us how to not be deceived by the coming Antichrist-false Christ.

Apostle Paul taught the faithful Church is to remain sober (spiritually) and not drunken in the night (spiritually) like the deceived will be who will be saying, "Peace and safety" when the "sudden destruction" comes upon them with the day of Christ's coming that will surprise them (see 1 Thessalonians 5). Those spiritually drunken Paul pointed to are the deceived who are in darkness, meaning per that chapter those who DO NOT KNOW the "times and the seasons" of Christ's future coming on the "day of the Lord" (LAST DAY of this world).

One of the main topics of that "times and the seasons" is to know the "day of the Lord" is when Jesus comes which is on the FINAL DAY of this present world, and NOT prior to the tribulation. The false pre-trib rapture doctors even try to change the timing of that "day of the Lord" by teaching their deceived followers that happens prior... to the tribulation! So beware.

Both Apostles Paul and Peter showed the "sudden destruction" and burning of man's works off this earth by God's consuming fire happen on the "day of the Lord" which will come "as a thief in the night". Notice that Lord Jesus showed His coming is on that day also...

Rev 16:15-17
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

16 And He gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
KJV


So how much common sense does one need to understand that when God's consuming fire and the sudden destruction Paul taught, comes upon this earth, that all working by man and by Satan's host on earth will be OVER? And that because of all the kingdoms of this world then becoming the kingdoms of The Father and His Son, as written in Rev.11.

So it is IMPOSSIBLE for the time of great tribulation and Satan's beast kingdom of Rev.13 to still be going on when the "day of the Lord" event happens "as a thief in the night" like Apostles Paul and Peter showed. See 2 Peter 3:10 and 1 Thessalonians 5.

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree. I love my Lord and Savior and do not love deceiving anyone, thank you. The contrasts between the Second coming and the Harpazo are numerous and call for serious examination as there is a major difference between the two.

You use John Darby as your foundation but that is not where the pretrib rapture view began. Ignoring that fact does not help your point of view regardless of how many Scriptures you use while ignoring the obvious contrasts. The day of His second coming will not take believers as a thief as it is apparently clear at that time when the Lord returns that the earth will be in darkness and wrecked beyond repair.

The Amillennial stance, which is Roman Catholic must be reconsidered being that Catholicism is not biblical in any way or form. The rock isn't Peter it's Jesus, whereby eschatology cannot be based off of it's foundation. Back in the days of Augustine when Christianity was legalized men were paid to preach by the government so of course they would never say Jesus was coming to put down their evil rulers, hence the dawn of allegory was embraced. Sadly, after the reformation it was never changed and brought back to where it was before such heresy.

I guess I could accuse you of loving to twist the Scriptures in your favor by trying to steal the blessed hope from well meaning believers due to your misunderstanding of the mystery and miracle of the church itself. It is clear in the Bible that the Church is a separate entity called the Bride of Christ and cannot be combined with the various dispensations listed. It appears that your issue is not based on Eschatology but Ecclesiology. But I digress.... because it is clear that both of us believe we're right based on our ecclesiastical upbringing.

Be well and loved

 

[Davy]

he does not know what we believe.
That is part of this debate.
They not only refute the bible, but think they know the pretrib doctrine.
They don't.

Those brethren of course are purposefully misleading statements. Those who heed God's Word as written that reveals Christ's coming to gather His Church AFTER... the tribulation well understand the FALSE IDEAS that the false Pre-trib Rapture school tries to push. Only someone who puts their trust in men instead of God in His Word would fall for their lies.

 

[Davy]

Rev 14
Your doctrine declares so recklessly the dead in christ gathered AFTER the living of rev 14.

You have no basis at all for a postrib rapture

The Doctrine I have declared about Christ's coming and gathering of His Church is HIS DOCTRINE, not mine!

You've pretty well revealed who you are to my Christian brethren here that actually heed God's Word as written. You really aren't fooling anyone like you 'think'... you are!

The True Christian will believe what Jesus said in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27, even though it goes DIRECTLY AGAINST men's false Pre-trib Rapture theory.

 

[Davy]

way off.
Only the dead IN CHRIST resurrect at the rapture.
The general resurrection is after the mil.

That idea is NOWHERE written in God's Word. You are only quoting MEN'S DOCTRINES that you've been taught that are not in God's Word.

Per John 5:28-29, on the day of Jesus' coming, ALL IN THE GRAVES will come forth, He said, either to the "resurrection of life", or to the "resurrection of damnation". And at THAT POINT, on the day of His coming to gather His Church, is when THAT RESURRECTION WILL HAPPEN, as written.

John 6:39
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent Me, that of all which He hath given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
KJV

That's Lord Jesus speaking there. Why don't you believe HIM?


That "last day" is when Jesus comes to gather His Church, which is when... the asleep saints are resurrected.

 

[The Light]

Those brethren of course are purposefully misleading statements. Those who heed God's Word as written that reveals Christ's coming to gather His Church AFTER... the tribulation well understand the FALSE IDEAS that the false Pre-trib Rapture school tries to push.

Again, we all know Christ comes after the tribulation, but this does NOT prevent Him from coming before the tribulation when He comes in an hour that you think not.

Only someone who puts their trust in men instead of God in His Word would fall for their lies.

This is a laugher. You put your trust in men that did not believe God's Word. They claimed that the Church had replaced Israel because they had no faith that God would keep His Word. The blind following the blind.

 

[The Light]

That idea is NOWHERE written in God's Word. You are only quoting MEN'S DOCTRINES that you've been taught that are not in God's Word.

I was able to find it in the Word of God.
1 Thes 4
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Per John 5:28-29, on the day of Jesus' coming, ALL IN THE GRAVES will come forth, He said, either to the "resurrection of life", or to the "resurrection of damnation". And at THAT POINT, on the day of His coming to gather His Church, is when THAT RESURRECTION WILL HAPPEN, as written.

John 6:39
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent Me, that of all which He hath given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
KJV

That's Lord Jesus speaking there. Why don't you believe HIM?


That "last day" is when Jesus comes to gather His Church, which is when... the asleep saints are resurrected.

Jesus returns for a harvest IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION and then Jesus returns at the end of the trumpets to set up His kingdom.
And of course He comes for the Church before the seals are opened. At which of the comings is the one coming only that the dead are raised?

 

[Davy]

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree. I love my Lord and Savior and do not love deceiving anyone, thank you. The contrasts between the Second coming and the Harpazo are numerous and call for serious examination as there is a major difference between the two.

You'll never convince those who heed God's Word as written (like myself), that Jesus comes to rapture His Church PRIOR to the "great tribulation" He warned of.


Jesus was clear in the Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 Scriptures that His coming to gather His Church is only AFTER the tribulation of those days He warned. Either one accepts that as written like He said, or they do not.

Now those who refuse... to accept what Lord Jesus said there, as written, reveal to those who heed Jesus there that they are not listening to HIM in HIS WORD of TRUTH.


Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall He send His angels, and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
KJV

So why... should any Bible-believing Christian pay any attention to the false doctrines you are on?

 

[The Light]

Now those who refuse... to accept what Lord Jesus said there, as written, reveal to those who heed Jesus there that they are not listening to HIM in HIS WORD of TRUTH.


Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall He send His angels, and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
KJV

So why... should any Bible-believing Christian pay any attention to the false doctrines you are on?

Those that seem unable to grasp what is written in the Word of God are those that seem to cry the louder.

I have shown you that Jesus comes for a harvest IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION and then the WRATH OF GOD BEGINS.

Jesus then returns with the armies of heaven at the end of wrath and sets up His kingdom on the earth.

And you are only able to see one coming?

I know that you are unable to address these questions as the Word of God proves you wrong.

Additionally, your teachers come from the root of those that did not believe Gods Word. Do you think that God will allow the correct doctrine to be passed through unbelieving men?

 

[Davy]

Those that seem unable to grasp what is written in the Word of God are those that seem to cry the louder.

Just more false statements from the deceived Pre-trib Rapture theory crowd, that is.

They have no valid recourse against what Lord Jesus Himself said in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 that His coming and gathering of His Church is AFTER... the tribulation. Because of that, they then try to attack the credibility of those who stay... with what Lord Jesus said there!

And their fake attack is still actually against the very words of Lord Jesus in those chapters.

So I really feel sorry for those who do that attack that don't know any better. Yet I'm convinced there are some on that false pre-trib rapture theory that do it on purpose too, and those will have the weightier punishment by Lord Jesus when He returns to gather His Church after the great tribulation He warned His faithful saints about.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Those brethren of course are purposefully misleading statements. Those who heed God's Word as written that reveals Christ's coming to gather His Church AFTER... the tribulation well understand the FALSE IDEAS that the false Pre-trib Rapture school tries to push. Only someone who puts their trust in men instead of God in His Word would fall for their lies.

Again, if your doctrine is true, why the omissions of verses, and reframing of what is written in mat 24, mat 25, rev 14, and rev 19?
In our doctrine the rapture verses AUTHENTICATE the doctrine.

Look, you guys have never posted a verse POINTING TO a postrib rapture.
Instead, you leap into oblivion with a " one coming " theory that is TOTALLY debunked.( ahem, by rev 14)
Your banner , your cornerstone, your ONLY verse, says AFTER the trib there is a gathering by angels in heaven. ( psssst...we all believe he RETURNS postrib. You prove nothing, then act like you did)

Read it like it says and you have no verses at all.

 

[rebuilder 454]

You'll never convince those who heed God's Word as written (like myself), that Jesus comes to rapture His Church PRIOR to the "great tribulation" He warned of.


Jesus was clear in the Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 Scriptures that His coming to gather His Church is only AFTER the tribulation of those days He warned. Either one accepts that as written like He said, or they do not.

Now those who refuse... to accept what Lord Jesus said there, as written, reveal to those who heed Jesus there that they are not listening to HIM in HIS WORD of TRUTH.


Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall He send His angels, and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
KJV

So why... should any Bible-believing Christian pay any attention to the false doctrines you are on?

So your advice would be to ignore the command of Jesus to pray to be WORTHY to escape??? ( ahem, exactly like the virgin parable. Worthy vs unworthy)

I am so glad i can read my bible and let doctrine come after comprehension.
Amazing that your doctrine corrects Jesus about 10 times.
Just amazing.

Side note;
Even the foolish virgins were watching. Just weren't ready.
No extra charge

 

[rebuilder 454]

That idea is NOWHERE written in God's Word. You are only quoting MEN'S DOCTRINES that you've been taught that are not in God's Word.

Per John 5:28-29, on the day of Jesus' coming, ALL IN THE GRAVES will come forth, He said, either to the "resurrection of life", or to the "resurrection of damnation". And at THAT POINT, on the day of His coming to gather His Church, is when THAT RESURRECTION WILL HAPPEN, as written.

John 6:39
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent Me, that of all which He hath given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
KJV

That's Lord Jesus speaking there. Why don't you believe HIM?


That "last day" is when Jesus comes to gather His Church, which is when... the asleep saints are resurrected.

Omit the resurrection after the mil and pooof!, your doctrine continues the incubation!

Ever wonder why the postrib doctrine is based on cliches'?
Last day
Lahaye
Darby
Last trump
Seventh trump
After
Brides maids
Trump
Trumpet
....and on and on.
Then thinking you proved noah never rose into the clouds.

Lots of work, no progress

 

[rebuilder 454]

@Davy

...and yet you say all that and prove your folly, because your "last day" pivot point of a resurrection, is AFTER the gathering of rev 14.
Ahem...the rev 14 gathering is DURING THE TRIB.
help us Lord

 

[rebuilder 454]

You'll never convince those who heed God's Word as written (like myself), that Jesus comes to rapture His Church PRIOR to the "great tribulation" He warned of.


Jesus was clear in the Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 Scriptures that His coming to gather His Church is only AFTER the tribulation of those days He warned. Either one accepts that as written like He said, or they do not.

Now those who refuse... to accept what Lord Jesus said there, as written, reveal to those who heed Jesus there that they are not listening to HIM in HIS WORD of TRUTH.


Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall He send His angels, and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
KJV

So why... should any Bible-believing Christian pay any attention to the false doctrines you are on?

Omission is not your friend.
Jesus outlined 2 comings in mat 24.

 

[The Light]

Just more false statements from the deceived Pre-trib Rapture theory crowd, that is.

They have no valid recourse against what Lord Jesus Himself said in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 that His coming and gathering of His Church is AFTER... the tribulation.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Completely unscriptural. There is no mention WHATSOEVER of the Church being raptured after the tribulation. The rapture in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 is the gathering from heaven and earth.

Mark 13
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

The Church is mentioned 19 times in the first three chapters of Revelation. Then that door opens in heaven and suddenly NO MORE MENTION OF THE CHURCH. However, we do see 24 elders in heaven before the throne with crowns. You don't get crowns until Jesus returns. FACT. We also see kings and priests in heaven which is what the Church is promised in Revelation 1.

So what you speak is total baloney. There is absolutely no mention of the Church being raptured after the tribulation other than they are those that are gathered from heaven in the gathering from heaven and earth.

Because of that, they then try to attack the credibility of those who stay... with what Lord Jesus said there!

We have to listen to the disproven John Nelson Darby yada, yada, yada nonsense from those following the teachings of men that had no faith in the word of God. Darby despite no nation of Israel for 1700 plus years had faith in the Word of God. And you follow men that rejected the truth of the Word of God and think that the Church has replaced Israel. In summary, you follow the doctrine of unbelieving men, those that did not believe that God was able to keep His written word. And if you look at the source of these men that you follow you would understand why they chose to lead others astray.

And their fake attack is still actually against the very words of Lord Jesus in those chapters.

You run around attacking the truth that the Lord will come for those watching and ready as instructed and teach other a false religion that the Lord is not going to keep His Word and take us to a place that He has prepared for us.

So I really feel sorry for those who do that attack that don't know any better. Yet I'm convinced there are some on that false pre-trib rapture theory that do it on purpose too, and those will have the weightier punishment by Lord Jesus when He returns to gather His Church after the great tribulation He warned His faithful saints about.

There are 5 wise virgins that have lamp oil and there are five foolish virgins that don't think the Lord will keep His promise to His Church. Just like the men that they follow in false teachings, they don't believe that God is going to keep His Word and take the Church to a place that He has prepared.

I have shown you that the Lord comes at the 6th seal for a harvest and the Lord returns at the end of wrath to set up His kingdom. All scriptural, for which you have no answer. That doesn't even count that the Lord will return for His bride the Church before the tribulation just as He said He would.

Those that are not watching will not see His appearance as He comes for those that believe the written Word of God.

Hebrews 9
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

The final week will start very soon. To those not watching and ready as instructed the door will be shut. It's not too late to do to as the Lord instructs, but soon it will be.

 

[Davy]

Again, if your doctrine is true, why the omissions of verses, and reframing of what is written in mat 24, mat 25, rev 14, and rev 19?
In our doctrine the rapture verses AUTHENTICATE the doctrine.

Look, you guys have never posted a verse POINTING TO a postrib rapture.
Instead, you leap into oblivion with a " one coming " theory that is TOTALLY debunked.( ahem, by rev 14)
Your banner , your cornerstone, your ONLY verse, says AFTER the trib there is a gathering by angels in heaven. ( psssst...we all believe he RETURNS postrib. You prove nothing, then act like you did)

Read it like it says and you have no verses at all.

Brethren in Christ, notice how they REFUSE to heed Jesus in the Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 Scriptures where He revealed His coming to gather His Church is AFTER THE TRIBULATION.

Brethren in Christ, if you will remember those Scriptures by Jesus, and present them to one who claims to believe in Jesus Christ, if they refuse to heed what Jesus said there, then you KNOW they are not following Jesus Christ, but have another agenda instead.