Pre-Trib Rapture Danger To Your Soul
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The Light
Well-Known Member
Can you name any pretribber that does not believe Jesus returns after the tribulation? You are laughing so hard, you ought to be able to come up with someone.
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There is NO WAY I am ever going to allow my 'head' to be where YOURS is today, with you being DECEIVED by heeding men's doctrines of a false pre-trib rapture theory instead of listening directly to Christ in His Word of Truth.
Lord Jesus Christ returns ONLY ONE TIME, not 2 or 3 like your false prophets lie to you about.
And Lord Jesus told those who listen to Him just when... that will be, per Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27, which is AFTER the tribulation to gather His Church.
Now since that above Scripture proof of when Lord Jesus said He returns to gather His Church has been written for almost 2,000 years, the QUESTION REGARDING YOUR BELIEF is what is in great suspect, because of who you are listening to instead of Lord Jesus.
Brethren in Christ:
the false prophets behind the creation of the false Pre-trib Rapture theory wrongly teach that the 'rapture' is separate from Jesus' 2nd coming. That is what @rebuilder 454 is talking about in the above statement.
The Biblical Fact is -- Lord Jesus comes ONLY ONE TIME, and that will be on the last day of this present world to END the time of "great tribulation" and gather His Church, and take them with Him to the Mount of Olives in Jerusalem, on earth.
These FACTS are written in Matthew 24:29-31, Mark 13:24-27; 2 Thessalonians 2; Revelation 16:15-17; Zechariah 14, and in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17.
I don't think anyone can say definitively when the Rapture will occur because the Scriptures are mysterious in regard to the timing. So, unless someone has been blessed like the prophet Daniel to receive such divine information, it's all speculation and conjecture. The Rapture may be pre, it may be mid, it may be post, but it will certainly happen because the Scriptures are clear in this regard.
1 Thessalonians 4
[15] For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
[16] For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
[17] Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
[18] Therefore comfort one another with these words.
1 Thessalonians 4
[15] For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
[16] For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
[17] Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
[18] Therefore comfort one another with these words.
Are you definitively stating on record that the "covenant with many" spoken of by the prophet Daniel will occur this September during the Feast of Trumpets?
The Light
Well-Known Member
Read my post. We need to note or be aware of this covenant as it falls in the prophetic timeline as it is a 7 year covenant. I would consider a 7 year covenant by the UN something to note. Who makes 7 year covenants?
I am unaware of a seven-year covenant by the UN this September. Can you provide information? If you're referring to the 2030 Agenda, that was established back in 2015. There are seven years yet to achieve the goal.
The Light
Well-Known Member
Oh now the pre trib trib rapture is created by false prophets. Since you seem to be an expert, could you identify who these prophets are?
The rapture of the Church is seperate from the second coming. It's also separate from the second adent.
Here is the Lord coming immediately after the tribulation for a harvest. He sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. THIS HAPPENS BEFORE THE WRATH OF GOD AS MARKED BY THE SIGNS OF THE SUN, MOON AND STARS.
Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Here is the Lord coming at the end of wrath with the armies of heaven.
Revelation 19
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
So you are unable to understand that the Lord comes immediately after the tribulation and sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. Then after the marriage supper the Lord returns to earth with the armies of heaven at the end of wrath..........AND YOU SEE ONLY ONE COMING?
And then of course the pretrib rapture that you are unable to see when the Lord Himself comes for the Church.? Seems like three.
These verses are the gathering from heaven and earth immediately after the tribulation and BEFORE WRATH.
These verses occur during the wrath of God
This is the pretribulation rapture when the Lord Himself comes for the bride.
There is a red car and a blue car and a car with no engine, and all you can see is A car.
The Light
Well-Known Member
It was established in 2015 as you say. They are going to strengthen this with a 7 year confirmation to be signed on the last day of the feast of trumpets. Definitely something to note.
Are you stating on record that this is the "covenant with many" spoken of by the prophet Daniel?
"The SDG Summit, in September 2023, must signal a genuine turning point. It must mobilize the political commitment and breakthroughs our world desperately needs. It must deliver a rescue plan for people and planet.At the center of this rescue plan, Heads of State and Government must recommit to seven years of accelerated, sustained, and transformative action, both nationally and internationally, to deliver on the promise of the SDGs. Leaders can show their resolve by adopting an ambitious and forward-looking political declaration at the SDG Summit and presenting global and national commitments for SDG transformation.Delivering change at the speed and scale required to achieve the SDGs by 2030 will demand that political leaders make bold decisions to match their ambitions. It will require transferring resources from one sector to another, creating new regulatory environments, deploying new technologies, and mobilizing of a wide range of actors to advance disruptive change. Doing so can strengthen trust and social cohesion." - 7 Years of Accelerated, Transformative Action to Achieve SDGs
The Light
Well-Known Member
One thing that we can say for certain is that there will be a post tribulation rapture. This will occur at the 6th seal immediately after the tribulation and before the wrath of God. The real question is WHO is getting raptured and where are they getting raptured from.
Additionally, there seems to be a pretribulation rapture before the seals are opened as there are 24 elders in heaven, before the throne, WITH CROWNS.
The Light
Well-Known Member
Is there anything in my post that would cause you to conclude this statement?
If I said that woman has pretty eyes, would you ask if that was a proposal for marriage?
Post #346 - The Light wrote: "Do you understand that there is going to be a 7 year covenant with many confirmed or strengthened this Feast of Trumpets that needs to be noted as it falls in line with the prophetic timeline?"
The "covenant with many" is a reference to what was spoken of by the prophet Daniel. Your statement above would make no sense if you were not making reference to this prophecy.
The Light
Well-Known Member
I think it would a good idea to note this covenant and keep an eye on it. How many 7 year covenants have you seen in your lifetime? Additionally, I would have to conclude that the UN should be considered many.
I would also note the timeline and conclusion in 2030. Ezekiel 4 makes that interesting. I would note it.
Timtofly
Well-Known Member
Which is still the post-trib view.
Jesus is on the earth with His angels from the 6th Seal until the 7th Trumpet. The first 6 Trumpets and 7 Thunders is the final harvest. It will not last for 3.5 years. That time keeps getting shorter, as it cannot even start until the Second Coming happens.
But it has a defined end point. The 7th Trumpet sounding brings that time to an end. The 70 weeks stop, when the 7th Trumpet stops sounding. The 70 weeks are declared finished when the 7th Trumpet starts sounding.
The population of this earth is drastically reduced from the 6th Seal to the 7th Trumpet. And the church is removed first. Then the sheep and goats. Then the tares and the wheat. All are removed. They are not chosen and then hang out on earth. The sheep wait on the sea of glass. The goats tossed into the LOF. Many will also just physically die, and placed in Death. Only a remnant will be alive at the 7th Trumpet. That is the many the Atonement Covenant is confirmed with. Those left during the days of the 7th Trumpet will either receive a mark. Or they will have their head chopped off to avoid the mark. Only two types of people as today. If they are confirmed as all taking the mark, then the winepress of God's wrath happens in Revelation 14. No one is left on the earth. The Millennium begins in Revelation 14. That is it, no 42 month extension, for people to choose Jesus as Messiah and Prince.
The 7th Trumpet is declaring Jesus as the 7th and final kingdom. The 7th kingdom is not part of the 7 headed dragon, the 7 headed beast out of the sea, and the 7 heads heads of the scarlet beast.
The 7 heads include Satan as one of the heads in all renditions of this world system. Satan has been part of, but never completely in charge of human government. The 8th kingdom would place the 7th kingdom on hold, not replace the 7th kingdom. The 7th kingdom is still the Millennium kingdom.
"And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."
The 7th Trumpet declares Jesus is King of the 7th Kingdom.
This is explained here: Revelation 17:8-11
"And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition."
So Satan was of the 7 heads, but the 8th kingdom. The 7th Kingdom was not of these 7 heads, but Jesus as represented as the stone cut out without hands in Daniel 2. This is Satan:
"The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is."
The symbolic red dragon in Revelation 12 and 20 is Satan's involvement in human government throughout history brought to a close when Satan is bound for a thousand years. Daniel 2 only gives us the first 5 kingdoms. The 6th Kingdom is the mortal wound kingdom of Revelation 13, because this kingdom has been held in check by the church, on earth, the unseen kingdom represented by the mountain that filled the whole earth. The 6th Kingdom is given life after the church is removed at the 6th Seal.
The 7th Trumpet ends the 6th Kingdom. That is when Jesus is declared as the 7th King and Kingdom, not part of the dragon. After 3.5 days, it will be determined if Satan is allowed his kingdom as the 8th kingdom, and this is the point of Daniel 9:27. Revelation 19 is the 7th Kingdom taking back control from the 8th Kingdom at Armageddon. The 8th kingdom was only allowed 42 months. Those 42 months allowed for those still in Adam's dead corruptible flesh to choose Jesus by chopping their heads off. No salvation by faith. It was removing one's head by faith.
So noted. However, for you to use the phrase "a covenant with many" harmed your argument of a pre-tribulation Rapture, as that phrase was given by the Angel Gabriel to the prophet Daniel specifically in regard to the 70th week. To your credit, however, the seven-year accelerated plan by the UN is interesting. World government is pretty much in place now. One more COVID19 pandemic-type crisis and the man of sin could make his entrance. I have heard of speculation that climate change lock downs are coming, and it may be the crisis needed for world government to take over. The elites will claim that we will need to become citizens of the world to save our very existence. No more delay. It will be forced on us. The people will succumb to it through fear, or go along to get along, just like during the COVID19 pandemic.
You show your lack of understanding that very Scripture you posted.
Allow me to help you...
1 Thess 4:15-17
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
The word "prevent" there in the Greek means 'precede' (go beforehand). Those still alive shall not precede the "asleep" saints that have already died; means they are already with Christ, which is how He brings those with Him when He comes per 1 Thess.4:14.
16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
By that in red Paul gives us the TIMING of these events. It's when the resurrection of the dead happens. Just when is that resurrection to happen per God's Word? On the LAST DAY of this present world is the answer.
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
KJV
The above also parallels what Jesus taught about the day of His gathering His saints (Matthew 24:31 about the gathering of the "asleep" saints; and Mark 13:27 about the saints still alive that are "caught up" on that day). Thus Apostle Paul in 1 Thess.4 was actually paralleling what Lord Jesus had already taught in His Olivet discourse.
The Light
Well-Known Member
The crisis that you are looking for is the pretribulation rapture. There is course will be an explanation that they have been promoting for a long time. Aliens.
Perhaps.
True. It's certainly of no coincidence that UFO's are now being discussed seriously in the mainstream media. The delusion is in place now.
2 Thessalonians 2
[9] Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
[10] And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
[11] And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
[12] That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. (KJV)
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