Pre-Trib Rapture Danger To Your Soul

[Davy]

Jesus is on the earth with His angels from the 6th Seal until the 7th Trumpet. The first 6 Trumpets and 7 Thunders is the final harvest. It will not last for 3.5 years. That time keeps getting shorter, as it cannot even start until the Second Coming happens.

There's that false Pre-trib Rapture Theory view.

Lord Jesus doesn't even appear in Revelation until the 6th Seal, 7th Trumpet, and 7th Vial per the Revelation chronology.

Any idea that teaches that Jesus comes to rapture His Church prior to the 6th Seal, 7th Trumpet, and 7th Vial is instead pushing a doctrine of the devil.

 

[The Light]

You show your lack of understanding that very Scripture you posted.

Allow me to help you...

1 Thess 4:15-17
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

The word "prevent" there in the Greek means 'precede' (go beforehand). Those still alive shall not precede the "asleep" saints that have already died; means they are already with Christ, which is how He brings those with Him when He comes per 1 Thess.4:14.

16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

By that in red Paul gives us the TIMING of these events. It's when the resurrection of the dead happens. Just when is that resurrection to happen per God's Word? On the LAST DAY of this present world is the answer.

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
KJV


The above also parallels what Jesus taught about the day of His gathering His saints (Matthew 24:31 about the gathering of the "asleep" saints; and Mark 13:27 about the saints still alive that are "caught up" on that day). Thus Apostle Paul in 1 Thess.4 was actually paralleling what Lord Jesus had already taught in His Olivet discourse.

Your first problem is that the last day occurs at the 6th seal. It is the gathering from heaven and earth IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION and BEFORE THE WRATH OF GOD.

That's where it all falls apart for you. You want to make the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal, the coming of Jesus AFTER WRATH. By the word, we know that is not the case.

Now let me help you. The dead in Christ rise first. - The barley harvest.
The Lord returns for the alive that remained. - The wheat harvest. This completes the grain harvest.

Then comes the fruit harvest which is the gathering from heaven and earth at the last trump.

 

[Davy]

The crisis that you are looking for is the pretribulation rapture. There is course will be an explanation that they have been promoting for a long time. Aliens.

According to Apostle Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2, the coming false one is to exalt himself as God, and over all that is even called God, or that is worshiped.

For those in Christ Jesus, that means he will claim to be God The Christ, Messiah, The Son of God.

Whatever religion one believes that has an avatar, the false one coming will claim to be him.

God's Word for the end with the coming Antichrist is thus pointing directly to a one-world religion encompassing ALL... religions, and that includes those deceived of Christ's Church.

Lord Jesus even revealed how that coming false one will work 'great signs and wonders', that IF it were possible, would deceive even His very elect. That kind of comparison is very deep, and says a lot more than just in those simple words He used. The reason is because those 'sealed' with God's seal for the tribulation, they cannot... be deceived. Christ's very elect cannot be deceived, because He has shown them by The Holy Spirit.

So by Lord Jesus giving that kind of comparison about His very elect, that illustrates just how powerful in deception those 'great signs and wonders' are going to be, done by the coming false-Messiah. Even in 2 Corinthians 11, Apostle Paul warned about those who preach "another Jesus". Thus God's Word warns us about the coming false-Christ who will actually play our Lord Jesus in the last days just prior to our Lord Jesus' return.

How then, will YOU... know the difference between that first messiah coming working those great signs and wonders, saying he is The Christ, vs. knowing that Lord Jesus comes after that false one to destroy him? HOW... will you know the difference??

Will you know by wanting to FLY AWAY to the first messiah that comes working 'great signs and wonders', claiming to be The Christ???

 

[The Light]

Any idea that teaches that Jesus comes to rapture His Church prior to the 6th Seal, 7th Trumpet, and 7th Vial is instead pushing a doctrine of the devil.

Brother. With your lack of understanding, you are in for a surprise. And all things that you have spoken against the truth.........ouch. You might study to show thyself approved and stop listening to those who think they have replaced Israel.

 

[The Light]

Lord Jesus even revealed how that coming false one will work 'great signs and wonders', that IF it were possible, would deceive even His very elect. That kind of comparison is very deep, and says a lot more than just in those simple words He used.

The elect in this case is the Jews. Jesus is talking about the beast of the sea. He gives this warning:
Matthew 24
25 Behold, I have told you before.

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

Jesus gives the warning of Nimrod who was and is not and will come again. Nimrod is Baal, who had the deadly wound of the sword and will live again. He is of the five have that have fallen and is the eighth who is of the seven.

How many mummy movies are they going to produce. They know what's coming. We should know what's coming as we have the Word of God. There is no new thing under the sun.

The reason is because those 'sealed' with God's seal for the tribulation, they cannot... be deceived. Christ's very elect cannot be deceived, because He has shown them by The Holy Spirit.

The Church is in heaven before the 7 seals are opened. Those that are sealed in Rev 7, the 144,000 do not go through the tribulation. For that matter they don't go through the wrath of God either.

So by Lord Jesus giving that kind of comparison about His very elect, that illustrates just how powerful in deception those 'great signs and wonders' are going to be, done by the coming false-Messiah. Even in 2 Corinthians 11, Apostle Paul warned about those who preach "another Jesus". Thus God's Word warns us about the coming false-Christ who will actually play our Lord Jesus in the last days just prior to our Lord Jesus' return.

There will be two other Jesus'. The beast of the earth and the beast of the sea. The beast of the earth is Horus also known as Apollo. This is a false savior that will come out of the king of the North. The beast of the sea is Nimrod.

How then, will YOU... know the difference between that first messiah coming working those great signs and wonders, saying he is The Christ, vs. knowing that Lord Jesus comes after that false one to destroy him? HOW... will you know the difference??

When Nimrod, the little horn comes back to life, many will be deceived. He was and is not and will be again.

We will know the difference because Christ will come as lightning from the east to the west.

Will you know by wanting to FLY AWAY to the first messiah that comes working 'great signs and wonders', claiming to be The Christ???

I won't be here as I will have already flown away as the bridegroom will come for the bride before the seals are opened. The second flying will take place at the 6th seal. I think all the Gentiles that believe will be killed prior to this as they are in the time of testing and this is Jacobs time of trouble.

 

[The Light]

Perhaps.

True. It's certainly of no coincidence that UFO's are now being discussed seriously in the mainstream media. The delusion is in place now.

2 Thessalonians 2
[9] Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
[10] And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
[11] And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
[12] That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. (KJV)

An interesting note about this UN covenant. It will be interesting to take note of who signs. If you see a former King of the North leader sign this as I suspect, that's like take triple note.

 

[Timtofly]

There's that false Pre-trib Rapture Theory view.

Lord Jesus doesn't even appear in Revelation until the 6th Seal, 7th Trumpet, and 7th Vial per the Revelation chronology.

Any idea that teaches that Jesus comes to rapture His Church prior to the 6th Seal, 7th Trumpet, and 7th Vial is instead pushing a doctrine of the devil.

I said the 6th Seal. You said the 6th Seal. Then you said the 6th Seal was wrong. You sound confused.

How then, will YOU... know the difference between that first messiah coming working those great signs and wonders, saying he is The Christ, vs. knowing that Lord Jesus comes after that false one to destroy him? HOW... will you know the difference??

Will you know by wanting to FLY AWAY to the first messiah that comes working 'great signs and wonders', claiming to be The Christ???

Why do you keep portraying the Second Coming and rapture as a TV commercial where one can pick and choose? Do you call out that you are ready to be raptured? Does God tap you on the shoulder, and ask if you have decided to let the Second Coming and rapture happen? How do you think one can choose beteeen the Second Coming happening and a false Christ walking around on the earth?

The event will happen so fast, you won't have time to think about it and choose.

 

[Only One King]

Do some study!!!​

A voice from the long past on Pre-tribulation Rapture​

As the time of the Rapture becomes closer and we see clearer signs of the nearness of the Tribulation the voice of Ephraim the Syrian comforts us in the knowledge that the Pre-tribulation Rapture is a valid eschatological belief for the church approaching the time of the tribulation.
On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World, written by Ephraim the Syrian (sometimes spelled Ephrem), an early church father, who lived from A.D. 306–373.
“For all the saints and Elect of God are gathered, prior to the Tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins.”
“For the elect shall be gathered prior to the tribulation, so they shall not see the confusion and the great tribulation coming upon the unrighteous world.” === Pray you be counted worthy to escape and be counted worthy!!!

Isaiah 26:20-21 shares an interesting point of view of what seriously looks like the pre-trib Rapture.

Come, my people, enter your chambers,
And shut your doors behind you;
Hide yourself, as it were, for a little moment,
Until the indignation is past.
21 For behold, the Lord comes out of His place
To punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity;
The earth will also disclose her [l]blood,
And will no more cover her slain. NKJV

John 14:1-3 “Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 In My Father’s house are many [a]mansions; if it were not so, [b]I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.

The Tribulation is for earth dwellers (Rev 3) and those who rejected the pardon of Jesus Christ as well as the time of Jacob's trouble. It's a different program. Great Tribulation is not needed for Christians who have given their lives to Christ. Jude points out where we'll be coming from when it is all over.

Jude 14-15 Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, 15 to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”

Isn't interesting that the one taken out of the way before the flood would make such an awesome statement.
See Revelation 19:14-And the armies in heaven, clothed in [f]fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses.

I also find it interesting that Jesus promised in Matthew 16 that Satan would not prevail against the church yet in Revelation he is found prevailing against the tribulation saints (not the church). It seems to be them who believed after they were left behind and later believed.

Also, if the rapture was at the end of the tribulation who would be left to populate the earth during the millennium?

There are major differences between the Harpazzo and the Second coming. They just don't fit unless it calls for a pre-trib rapture.
In the rapture as described by Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4 Jesus only comes down to collect those in His body (church) and returns to heaven. He does not come to the earth at that time. Only the church sees Him not every eye.

The doctrine of imminence is throughout the NT and seems that it could only be referring to a pre-trib event otherwise we would easily know the time, which has not been given....not even to Jesus in order that Satan is thrown of guard when it happens.

Very interesting is that in Revelation 13:9 when speaking of the mark of the beast it says- If anyone has an ear, let him hear.

Notice in Revelation 2-3 that sentence always ended with "what the Spirit says to the churches.... yet the churches are not mentioned at the end of Revelation 13:9. Why? because it has gone to be with the Lord.

I'll take my chances with 1 Thessalonians 1:10 and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

He is our blessed hope and does need to put his bride through the Great Tribulation. There is a difference. If I'm wrong. Lord forgive me as I would never want to mislead anyone or seek to share such a wonderful hope and promise.

Maranatha

 

[Only One King]

Man's theory of a Pre-tribulational Rapture is dangerous to one's soul who believes it.

The reason is because that idea by men is designed to lead you to worship of the devil in the last days.

Lord Jesus showed that His coming to gather His Church is AFTER... the tribulation He forewarned us about (Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27).

The Pre-tribulational Rapture theory was never a doctrine of the early Church.

Pre-trib began to first be taught in certain churches in 1830's Great Britain by Edward Irving and John Nelson Darby. Prior to that ALL Christian Churches held to the Biblical Post-tribulational coming by Christ Jesus to gather His Church.

In Matthew 24 and Mark 13, Jesus warned about the coming of a pseudo-Christ (i.e., false Messiah) PRIOR to His return and gathering of His saints (His Church).

Christ's Book of Revelation reveals that coming false one to Jerusalem at the end will be the "dragon", the devil himself.

Men's false Pre-trib Rapture theory wrongly teaches that the Church are the first ones 'taken' in Christ's parable about the one taken, and the other left, at the end of Luke 17:34-37.

Jesus showed the first one 'taken' will be to where the fowls are gathered to eat on a dead carcase (Luke 17:37; see also the parallel in Matthew 24:28). That points to the devil's servants, and where the devil will be.

Hmmmmm.... How can the promise of the blessed hope be dangerous?

Isaiah 26:20-21 shares an interesting point of view of what seriously looks like the pre-trib Rapture.

Come, my people, enter your chambers,
And shut your doors behind you;
Hide yourself, as it were, for a little moment,
Until the indignation is past.
21 For behold, the Lord comes out of His place
To punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity;
The earth will also disclose her [l]blood,
And will no more cover her slain. NKJV

John 14:1-3 “Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 In My Father’s house are many [a]mansions; if it were not so, [b]I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.

The Tribulation is for earth dwellers (Rev 3) and those who rejected the pardon of Jesus Christ as well as the time of Jacob's trouble. It's a different program. Great Tribulation is not needed for Christians who have given their lives to Christ. Jude points out where we'll be coming from when it is all over.

Jude 14-15 Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, 15 to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”

Isn't interesting that the one taken out of the way before the flood would make such an awesome statement.
See Revelation 19:14-And the armies in heaven, clothed in [f]fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses.

I also find it interesting that Jesus promised in Matthew 16 that Satan would not prevail against the church yet in Revelation he is found prevailing against the tribulation saints (not the church). It seems to be them who believed after they were left behind and later believed.

Also, if the rapture was at the end of the tribulation who would be left to populate the earth during the millennium?

There are major differences between the Harpazzo and the Second coming. They just don't fit unless it calls for a pre-trib rapture.
In the rapture as described by Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4 Jesus only comes down to collect those in His body (church) and returns to heaven. He does not come to the earth at that time. Only the church sees Him not every eye.

The doctrine of imminence is throughout the NT and seems that it could only be referring to a pre-trib event otherwise we would easily know the time, which has not been given....not even to Jesus in order that Satan is thrown of guard when it happens.

Very interesting is that in Revelation 13:9 when speaking of the mark of the beast it says- If anyone has an ear, let him hear.

Notice in Revelation 2-3 that sentence always ended with "what the Spirit says to the churches.... yet the churches are not mentioned at the end of Revelation 13:9. Why? because it has gone to be with the Lord.

I'll take my chances with 1 Thessalonians 1:10 and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

He is our blessed hope and does need to put his bride through the Great Tribulation. There is a difference. If I'm wrong. Lord forgive me as I would never want to mislead anyone or seek to share such a wonderful hope and promise.

Maranatha

 

[Davy]

Isaiah 26:20-21 shares an interesting point of view of what seriously looks like the pre-trib Rapture.

It's still not about a Pre-trib Rapture though. God's Word does not contradict itself, because it was given by The Holy Spirit.

Jesus revealed that the time of His coming and gathering of His saints will be AFTER... the tribulation, as written in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27. And those 2 Scripture evidences directly parallel what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 4 about the day of Christ's coming to gather His Church, on the LAST DAY of this world. Paul reveals it will happen on the LAST DAY, because he showed the "asleep" saints must be RESURRECTED FIRST per 1 Thess.4:16. The future resurrection only happens on the last day of this world, which is when Jesus comes, NOT prior to the great tribulation like man's false pre-trib rapture theory teaches (also see John 5:28-29 by Lord Jesus).

John 14:1-3 “Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 In My Father’s house are many [a]mansions; if it were not so, [b]I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.

The false Pre-trib Rapture School loves to misinterpret that too. The Greek for the KJV word "mansions" there is simply a word that means 'abodes', or chambers.

What Lord Jesus was pointing to are the chambers of the priests in God's House described in Ezekiel 40 forward regarding Christ's future "thousand years" temple on earth. I'm sure many of the Pre-trib Rapture school scholars know about this, and probably hope most of their deceived believers never open up their Old Testament and study about those priest's chambers in God's House written of in the Book of Ezekiel.

I even had a friend who went to a Pre-trib Rapture Church that even taught those Ezekiel 40 thru 48 chapter line upon line, and STILL missed the John 14 link of those priest's chambers in Christ's future Millennial temple called there God's House!

The Tribulation is for earth dwellers (Rev 3) and those who rejected the pardon of Jesus Christ as well as the time of Jacob's trouble. It's a different program. Great Tribulation is not needed for Christians who have given their lives to Christ. Jude points out where we'll be coming from when it is all over.

FALSE. All that is MADE UP and is NOT written anywhere in God's Word.

Lord Jesus and Apostle Paul especially revealed that His Church will... go through the coming "great tribulation", and told us how to not be deceived by the coming Antichrist-false Christ.

Apostle Paul taught the faithful Church is to remain sober (spiritually) and not drunken in the night (spiritually) like the deceived will be who will be saying, "Peace and safety" when the "sudden destruction" comes upon them with the day of Christ's coming that will surprise them (see 1 Thessalonians 5). Those spiritually drunken Paul pointed to are the deceived who are in darkness, meaning per that chapter those who DO NOT KNOW the "times and the seasons" of Christ's future coming on the "day of the Lord" (LAST DAY of this world).

One of the main topics of that "times and the seasons" is to know the "day of the Lord" is when Jesus comes which is on the FINAL DAY of this present world, and NOT prior to the tribulation. The false pre-trib rapture doctors even try to change the timing of that "day of the Lord" by teaching their deceived followers that happens prior... to the tribulation! So beware.

Both Apostles Paul and Peter showed the "sudden destruction" and burning of man's works off this earth by God's consuming fire happen on the "day of the Lord" which will come "as a thief in the night". Notice that Lord Jesus showed His coming is on that day also...

Rev 16:15-17
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

16 And He gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
KJV


So how much common sense does one need to understand that when God's consuming fire and the sudden destruction Paul taught, comes upon this earth, that all working by man and by Satan's host on earth will be OVER? And that because of all the kingdoms of this world then becoming the kingdoms of The Father and His Son, as written in Rev.11.

So it is IMPOSSIBLE for the time of great tribulation and Satan's beast kingdom of Rev.13 to still be going on when the "day of the Lord" event happens "as a thief in the night" like Apostles Paul and Peter showed. See 2 Peter 3:10 and 1 Thessalonians 5.

 

[Davy]

Hmmmmm.... How can the promise of the blessed hope be dangerous?

Don't be deceived brethren by those on man's false Pre-trib Rapture Theory that use those type of single verses pulled out of CONTEXT to TRY and prop up their false pre-trib rapture theory.


Titus 2:13
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
KJV

That is Apostle Paul saying that above.

Paul is simply pointing to how THOSE FAITHFUL WAITING FOR CHRIST'S COMING await that future event as a "blessed hope"!

Is there anything... said there by Apostle Paul in that verse about a Pre-tribulational Rapture idea? ABSOLUTELY NOT!

And what does Revelation 22 say about those who try to ADD to Bible Scripture like the Pre-trib Rapture school does with taking that "blessed hope" idea out of Scripture CONTEXT? Did you know Satan tried to do the same thing with Jesus in Luke 4 when tempting Him?

Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
KJV

So it's pretty obvious the pre-trib rapture doctrine of men is a FALSE doctrine of devils, simply because they COMPLETELY REJECT Lord Jesus' Own Words of when He comes AFTER the tribulation...

Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

What about the rest of Only One King's post? After his false pre-trib rapture theory usage of that "blessed hope" phrase, the rest of his post is just cannon fodder used to try to deceive you!

So why should any true believer on Jesus Christ want to listen to those who heed a doctrine created by false prophets like the false Pre-trib Rapture Theory that was first preached in 1830's Great Britain by a man named John Nelson Darby??

 

[rebuilder 454]

Can you name any pretribber that does not believe Jesus returns after the tribulation? You are laughing so hard, you ought to be able to come up with someone.

he does not know what we believe.
That is part of this debate.
They not only refute the bible, but think they know the pretrib doctrine.
They don't.

 

[rebuilder 454]

It's still not about a Pre-trib Rapture though. God's Word does not contradict itself, because it was given by The Holy Spirit.

Jesus revealed that the time of His coming and gathering of His saints will be AFTER... the tribulation, as written in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27. And those 2 Scripture evidences directly parallel what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 4 about the day of Christ's coming to gather His Church, on the LAST DAY of this world. Paul reveals it will happen on the LAST DAY, because he showed the "asleep" saints must be RESURRECTED FIRST per 1 Thess.4:16. The future resurrection only happens on the last day of this world, which is when Jesus comes, NOT prior to the great tribulation like man's false pre-trib rapture theory teaches (also see John 5:28-29 by Lord Jesus).



The false Pre-trib Rapture School loves to misinterpret that too. The Greek for the KJV word "mansions" there is simply a word that means 'abodes', or chambers.

What Lord Jesus was pointing to are the chambers of the priests in God's House described in Ezekiel 40 forward regarding Christ's future "thousand years" temple on earth. I'm sure many of the Pre-trib Rapture school scholars know about this, and probably hope most of their deceived believers never open up their Old Testament and study about those priest's chambers in God's House written of in the Book of Ezekiel.

I even had a friend who went to a Pre-trib Rapture Church that even taught those Ezekiel 40 thru 48 chapter line upon line, and STILL missed the John 14 link of those priest's chambers in Christ's future Millennial temple called there God's House!



FALSE. All that is MADE UP and is NOT written anywhere in God's Word.

Lord Jesus and Apostle Paul especially revealed that His Church will... go through the coming "great tribulation", and told us how to not be deceived by the coming Antichrist-false Christ.

Apostle Paul taught the faithful Church is to remain sober (spiritually) and not drunken in the night (spiritually) like the deceived will be who will be saying, "Peace and safety" when the "sudden destruction" comes upon them with the day of Christ's coming that will surprise them (see 1 Thessalonians 5). Those spiritually drunken Paul pointed to are the deceived who are in darkness, meaning per that chapter those who DO NOT KNOW the "times and the seasons" of Christ's future coming on the "day of the Lord" (LAST DAY of this world).

One of the main topics of that "times and the seasons" is to know the "day of the Lord" is when Jesus comes which is on the FINAL DAY of this present world, and NOT prior to the tribulation. The false pre-trib rapture doctors even try to change the timing of that "day of the Lord" by teaching their deceived followers that happens prior... to the tribulation! So beware.

Both Apostles Paul and Peter showed the "sudden destruction" and burning of man's works off this earth by God's consuming fire happen on the "day of the Lord" which will come "as a thief in the night". Notice that Lord Jesus showed His coming is on that day also...

Rev 16:15-17
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

16 And He gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
KJV


So how much common sense does one need to understand that when God's consuming fire and the sudden destruction Paul taught, comes upon this earth, that all working by man and by Satan's host on earth will be OVER? And that because of all the kingdoms of this world then becoming the kingdoms of The Father and His Son, as written in Rev.11.

So it is IMPOSSIBLE for the time of great tribulation and Satan's beast kingdom of Rev.13 to still be going on when the "day of the Lord" event happens "as a thief in the night" like Apostles Paul and Peter showed. See 2 Peter 3:10 and 1 Thessalonians 5.

Rev 14
Your doctrine declares so recklessly the dead in christ gathered AFTER the living of rev 14.

You have no basis at all for a postrib rapture

 

[rebuilder 454]

You show your lack of understanding that very Scripture you posted.

Allow me to help you...

1 Thess 4:15-17
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

The word "prevent" there in the Greek means 'precede' (go beforehand). Those still alive shall not precede the "asleep" saints that have already died; means they are already with Christ, which is how He brings those with Him when He comes per 1 Thess.4:14.

16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

By that in red Paul gives us the TIMING of these events. It's when the resurrection of the dead happens. Just when is that resurrection to happen per God's Word? On the LAST DAY of this present world is the answer.

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
KJV


The above also parallels what Jesus taught about the day of His gathering His saints (Matthew 24:31 about the gathering of the "asleep" saints; and Mark 13:27 about the saints still alive that are "caught up" on that day). Thus Apostle Paul in 1 Thess.4 was actually paralleling what Lord Jesus had already taught in His Olivet discourse.

way off.
Only the dead IN CHRIST resurrect at the rapture.
The general resurrection is after the mil.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Don't be deceived brethren by those on man's false Pre-trib Rapture Theory that use those type of single verses pulled out of CONTEXT to TRY and prop up their false pre-trib rapture theory.


Titus 2:13
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
KJV

That is Apostle Paul saying that above.

Paul is simply pointing to how THOSE FAITHFUL WAITING FOR CHRIST'S COMING await that future event as a "blessed hope"!

Is there anything... said there by Apostle Paul in that verse about a Pre-tribulational Rapture idea? ABSOLUTELY NOT!

And what does Revelation 22 say about those who try to ADD to Bible Scripture like the Pre-trib Rapture school does with taking that "blessed hope" idea out of Scripture CONTEXT? Did you know Satan tried to do the same thing with Jesus in Luke 4 when tempting Him?

Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
KJV

So it's pretty obvious the pre-trib rapture doctrine of men is a FALSE doctrine of devils, simply because they COMPLETELY REJECT Lord Jesus' Own Words of when He comes AFTER the tribulation...

Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

What about the rest of Only One King's post? After his false pre-trib rapture theory usage of that "blessed hope" phrase, the rest of his post is just cannon fodder used to try to deceive you!

So why should any true believer on Jesus Christ want to listen to those who heed a doctrine created by false prophets like the false Pre-trib Rapture Theory that was first preached in 1830's Great Britain by a man named John Nelson Darby??

Your darby deal has been debunked thoroughly.
But it is interesting you posted that AFTER the trib there is a gathering BY ANGELS, NOT JESUS...and that gathering is IN HEAVEN.
You are oblivious that that is a pretrib rapture dynamic, because rev 19 has the church in heaven DURING the trib.
THEY are in fact gathered to ride horses down to earth.
You are way, way off with that tired doctrine.

 

[The Light]

he does not know what we believe.
That is part of this debate.
They not only refute the bible, but think they know the pretrib doctrine.
They don't.

There are 5 wise virgins and 5 foolish virgins. They don't realize that they speak against the truth and the door will be shut. If they ever did any actual RE-search they would find out what their leaders tell them are not the facts.

 

[The Light]

Don't be deceived brethren by those on man's false Pre-trib Rapture Theory that use those type of single verses pulled out of CONTEXT to TRY and prop up their false pre-trib rapture theory.


Titus 2:13
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
KJV

Let's put things in context. Those that look for He will appear a second time.

Hebrews 9
So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

That is Apostle Paul saying that above.

Paul is simply pointing to how THOSE FAITHFUL WAITING FOR CHRIST'S COMING await that future event as a "blessed hope"!

Is there anything... said there by Apostle Paul in that verse about a Pre-tribulational Rapture idea? ABSOLUTELY NOT!

And what does Revelation 22 say about those who try to ADD to Bible Scripture like the Pre-trib Rapture school does with taking that "blessed hope" idea out of Scripture CONTEXT? Did you know Satan tried to do the same thing with Jesus in Luke 4 when tempting Him?

Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
KJV

And there were five wise virgins and five foolish virgins and the wise had lamp oil to see. The foolish only had enough lamp oil to see one coming. And the door shut.

So it's pretty obvious the pre-trib rapture doctrine of men is a FALSE doctrine of devils, simply because they COMPLETELY REJECT Lord Jesus' Own Words of when He comes AFTER the tribulation...

Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

How is it that you are unable to comprehend that all pretribbers understand He comes after the tribulation? I asked you to name one pretribber that does not believe that the Lord comes after the tribulation and have been met with silence.

You always claim that pretribbers are liars. It seems you are misrepresenting what the pretribbers believe to justify your failed doctrine.

What about the rest of Only One King's post? After his false pre-trib rapture theory usage of that "blessed hope" phrase, the rest of his post is just cannon fodder used to try to deceive you!

The only deceit I have seen is you misrepresenting that the pretribbers don't think He comes after the tribulation. We all know He does. We also know that we can escape all these things that will come to pass and stand before the Son of Man. That's something that you look past, the Word of Truth.

So why should any true believer on Jesus Christ want to listen to those who heed a doctrine created by false prophets like the false Pre-trib Rapture Theory that was first preached in 1830's Great Britain by a man named John Nelson Darby??

John Darby, despite there not being a nation of Israel for over 1700 years correctly preached that God would restore Israel as a nation and keep His promise to the Chosen. However, the men you follow failed to believe God's Word and proclaimed that the Church had replaced Israel. Their faith in the Word of God had failed after a mere 300 years or so.
If you would take just one hour of your life and do some actual unbiased RE-search you would find you are in the wrong camp. Get some lamp oil so you can see.

 

[marks]

John Darby, despite there not being a nation of Israel for over 1700 years correctly preached that God would restore Israel as a nation and keep His promise to the Chosen. However, the men you follow failed to believe God's Word and proclaimed that the Church had replaced Israel. Their faith in the Word of God had failed after a mere 300 years or so.

Yes, for hundreds of years Isreal wasn't in their land and people didn't believe they ever would be, so they had to try to figure out what all these passages of Scripture must mean, since they didn't believe it could still mean the historical Israel. And they came up with Replacement theory, and over things like that.

Yes, Darby, Sir Anderson, Larkin, these still believed the Bible, and assumed it was true, and interpretted it that way. And as Jesus said . . . Wisdom is justified by her children.

We all know Israel is there again, but so many won't let go of their views that arose from disbelief, and that require changing the meanings of many many Scriptures.

Much love!

 

[marks]

he does not know what we believe.
That is part of this debate.
They not only refute the bible, but think they know the pretrib doctrine.
They don't.

It's very poor form!! It would be a lot better discussion if we all used good manners, and avoided fallacies.

Much love!

 

[Rockerduck]

I always tell people about the return of Jesus and the taking away of the elect.

Expect the unexpected