Preaching About Sin.
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Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Well you are correct. Technically god does not condemn. The lost condemn themselves by rejecting Jesus and the Father simply executes the sentence their rejection has earned them.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
My question is, does God even do this? and I would use Judas as an example. Judas condemned himself, Jesus didn't; he washed his feet a few hours earlier. It was Judas who as a result of self condemnation suicided, it wasn't God who executed him.
.....another reference; when Jesus returns in breathtaking glory in the clouds, those opposed to him call for the rocks and the mountains to fall on them. (Revelation 6:15-16) This sounds like mass suicide to me.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Well revelation says for the rocks to hide them. Not kill them.
As I said sinners condemn themselves. However God is the judge and He pronounces sentence for their rejection of Jesus , which is eternal torment in the lake of fire.
I have a question if you don't sin anymore how long have you done it. Its pretty hard to do in this world.I think you mean Jesus will die for all your sin all time past and future.Jesus did stress over and over not to Judge others because everyone is a sinner. So if you were there with the adulteress woman you would be free to cast the first stone because your free of sin - your not a sinner right so stone away at sinners if thats what you believe.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Love doesn't torment anyone overtly. Those who reject it will no doubt be tormented....as was Judas. Ultimately, he couldn't live with himself.
The lake of fire is the second death.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
No that is misreading the passage.
The second death is death and the grave being destroyed before anyone is tossed into the lake of fire.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
too many believers forget that Gods first and foremost attribute is His absolute Holiness. The Lake of fire is a forever torment that is earned for rejecting Jesus.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Ohhhh Ronald, God's character is not that of needing 'sacrifice' as in tormenting people forever. Sacrificing, whether they earned it or the idea that God wants some sort of macabre satisfaction never entered his mind (Jeremiah 19:5)
We have Jesus for the very purpose of knowing what God is like. Yup, he's the brightness of God's Glory (Hebrews 1:3)
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
The eternal punishment is not a sacrifice, it is payment for ones rejection of Jesus!
Jesus and the Bible both say that those who are lost suffer day and night without end. That is Gods truth as expressed in His word.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
1....Does love really require payment?
2...The loss of existence is the suffering. The wicked and sin will be no more. The Universe is cleansed not by violence perpetrated by God. The example of Judas' choice and subsequent action is not to pass us by.
The issue of sin is tackled in the gospel. The modern translation translates a liberation from sin (aphesis) as a mere "forgiveness"...or turning a blind eye to sin...and that is based on unbelief in the gospel. Jesus came to save the world...from their sins...not IN their sins, as many prefer. So the translations follow what people WANT to hear. So we have a problem with those who trust a flawed translation...made by men, in the face of an actual text that is part of the Christian Canon. We have Concordances where people can look at what words are used...being careful to not redefine the words to what we believe...rather than adapt what we believe to what is actually written in either Hebrew or Greek,
Also, we know that unless a person is crucified in the outer man that people WILL sin. The way in to the gospel promises is through the power of the cross...that liberates the captive sinner from the power of sin that is embedded in the soul.
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Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
YOur answer contradict what God said in His Word.
Justice requires punishment as well as reward. God is just
It is not about payment but justice.
Sorry but ceasing to exist is not biblical.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
According to this logic we are punished or rewarded because of the things we do, that's the upshot of it ........yet if Jesus died for sinners which we all are then hasn't the punishment been taken by him.......otherwise, what's that all about. So you are saying folk get whipped really really really hard forever because they chose not to acknowledge the former. Well, if that's the kind of God running the show, maybe Lucifer had a point?
No, don't bother explaining Ronald, I know how all that convoluted and concealed works oriented rational goes....it's enough to make any thinking person get bent outta shape.....which mind you, plenty do.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
You are using faulty logic. Jesus paid for every sin. But in order to receive the benefit of HIs death, one has to appropriate His death to themself by faith. To reject means one has to pay for their sins themselves.
People are saved apart from works and people are lost apart from works.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Only one. If one rejects the payment Jesus made for them, then they have to pay the bill. It is just the way it is as spelled out in SCripture.
In order for the payment Jesus made to be valid individually, one has to receive it by faith in this life!
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Well it may sound like it but it is not.
One is a potential payment (receiving Jesus) Jesus death only potentially pays for ones sin, it must be actualized by receiving it by faith.
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
ohhh, so the whipping Jesus received along with all the other abuse was somehow only potential?
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Sin is not a complicated topic until people get a hold of it.
Some people cannot stop sinning because they do not know what sin is.
Some people think that Yeshua’s sacrifice on the cross forgave all sins for everybody or at least those that believe in Him, so it more or less functions as a license to sin.
Some think that if you cannot be perfect then why try at all?
Some think they have sinned so bad in the past that they cannot get forgiveness for sins.
Then you have theological sins and modern sins.
Then you have sins that are committed by not doing something.
Then to address the mental side of sin….in other words if you cannot control yourself and praying about it does not help, you should get professional help, you need to seek professional help before you hurt somebody or yourself or end up in prison.
Lifestyle sins are the most threatening….things like LGBTQ issues, and drugs.
Does that sound complicated? Still not complicated. I call my misery the Johnny Appleseed of Truth and my mottos are
As Christ said, Love God and Each Other.
Be good and do good.
Give evil no mercy, no tolerance, and no quarter.
Be good and do good, I would say sins are a matter of common sense but then some do not have common sense….So most sins are listed in the scriptures….
1st Corinthians 6:9-10 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor those habitually drunk, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God”
Galatians 5:19-21 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
And it goes without saying murder is a sin and there are a few modern sins.
On the other hand there are man-made sins that are of little significance. Like drinking, smoking, dancing, playing games, and swimming pools.
That does not mean you cannot turn these into real sins.
It is important to understand that when you are born again through baptism that all sins of your past are gone and forgotten and you start with a clean slate. From there it is a matter of actions and intent. Be good and do good the best you honestly can, forgiveness is yours through Christ. That is both the truth and the hard facts….the best you can may land you in Hell, because you cannot do more than the best you can. That is why the Bible says… work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; Philippians 2:12
No one is perfect and perfect is not possible. Christ….the Son of God….went through the Passion and crucifixion to offer forgiveness for sins and that judgment is His to judge. That is why they say judge the sin not the sinner. But do not think you can play Yeshua for a fool. Which means do not keep coming to Him for the same sins….Which is why I said that lifestyles sins are the most threatening.
And again I will say, if you find you cannot control your actions, and praying about it does not help, you should get professional help.
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