Premillennialism contradicts scripture (1 Corinthians 15:50-54) by having mortal flesh and blood inheriting the kingdom of God when Jesus returns.

[covenantee]

Even so, Paul was not addressing God's promise to Israel in that context.

The relevance of physical attributes depends on the question being considered. In Paul's letter to the Galatians, the primary issue he addresses is the role of Christ in our justification. Paul agrees with Peter's view that, although they are not "sinners," they cannot achieve justification apart from Christ. Since justification is based solely on one's relationship with and orientation toward Christ, other human identity markers become irrelevant. Whether a person is circumcised or uncircumcised does not matter. In Christ, there is neither circumcision nor uncircumcision; there is neither male nor female, slave nor free, Jew nor Gentile.

Even so, we would be mistaken to take Paul's argument further than he intended. After all, the one who said that in Christ there is neither male nor female is the same man who said, "I refuse a woman to teach," and "wives should obey their husbands." While physicality is not relevant with regard to the attainment of God's justification, it remains relevant in other areas.

In Paul's epistle to the Romans, he discusses a promise that God made to his physical descendants. He does not suggest that God has dismissed the importance of physical lineage, as it plays a crucial role in the original promise. For example, God commanded that any king of Israel must be a direct descendant of David. Jesus' physical connection to David is a key qualification for his role as the Messiah, as outlined in Romans chapter one. If Jesus were not physically related to David, he would not qualify as the Messiah.

Paul understands that if God fails to keep His promise to His "kinsmen of the flesh," then that promise would be rendered ineffective. Given that physical lineage is a significant aspect of the original promise, Paul needs to explain how God will fulfill His promise despite his teaching that salvation comes through faith rather than through the works of the Law. It would be an error to interpret Paul as claiming, "Salvation is available to anyone, Jew or Gentile, who seeks justification by faith instead of by the works of the Law." While this statement is true, it does not directly address the objection at hand.

The answer lies in the concept of election: who did God choose, and for what purpose did He choose them? The Bible teaches that God chose the descendants of Jacob to be his holy people, choosing them to be distinctively associated with God among all the other peoples of the Earth. So, God chose all of Jacob's descendants to serve that purpose.

The key difference regarding God's promise to save Jacob's descendants once again centers on God's choice. He promised to save Jacob's descendants, and the physical lineage is the focus of this promise. But, as Paul argues, God reserves the right to select whom to save from among that lineage.

Among Jacob's descendants, those who will be saved are the individuals among them whom God has chosen to save. Paul argues, for instance, that God chose to bless Isaac because he was a child of promise. Not all of Jacob's descendants are children of promise.

In conclusion, we make a mistake in understanding Romans 9 through 11 as a repeat of Romans 1 through 8. When Paul says that not all of Israel is Israel, it is a mistake to hear him say, "Israel is now defined as all those whom God has chosen for salvation." That is not his point because in his epistle to the Galatians, Paul associates salvation with God's promise to Abraham, which he points out, came 430 years prior to the covenant at Mt. Sinai. That covenant did not nullify God's promise to Abraham.

But it would be a mistake to think that the covenant at Mt. Sinai was irrelevant or inconsequential. That covenant defined them as a unique people, a people chosen from all the other peoples of the world. The covenants and promises belong to them. Christ came from them. The promise of Salvation was made specifically to them. Romans chapters 9 through 11 set out to answer that question. What is to happen to them?

In God's New Will and Testament, all covenants and promises are fulfilled only in Christ, and in those who are in Christ.

The OT covenants and promises are the promissory clauses of God's Old Will and Testament, and they are both revoked and fulfilled in the promissory clauses of His New Will and Testament, written in the Blood of His Son Jesus Christ, the Divine Testator, coming into full force and effect upon His death.

If you have made your own Will and Testament, you will see that the very first clause states the following or its equivalent:

"I HEREBY REVOKE all former Wills and other testamentary dispositions by me at any time therefore made and declare this to be my Last Will and Testament."

This means that all former wills and testaments, and all of their promissory clauses in their entirety, are completely null and void. In their place, the promissory clauses of the current last new will and testament are the only ones in force and effect. Any promissory clause which appeared in the old will and testament, but does not appear in the new will and testament, is irrevocably null and void unless yet another new will and testament is made which re-includes it.

Thus we see:

Hebrews 9
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Hebrews 10
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

Hebrews 8
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

God`s New Will and Testament is everlasting:

Hebrews 13
20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant.

There is none greater.

We see other new promissory clauses of the New Will and Testament in:

Matthew 21:33-45
In this parable, the son, who is identified as the heir, typifies Christ.

Galatians 3:16
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

2 Corinthians 1:20
For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Hebrews 1:1,2
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

In them, we see that the Heir and Beneficiary is Christ alone, that all of the promises are affirmed and confirmed in Him, and that He is Heir of all things. All includes the OT land promises, the restoration promises, the blessings promises, and all else. There are no exceptions.

God has appointed His Son alone as heir of all things. Unbelieving Israel is not an heir. Galatians 4:30-31.

His New Will and Testament contains even better promises:

Hebrews 8
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Such as:

Hebrews 11
16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Additional promissory clauses in...:

Romans 8:16-17
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Galatians 3:29
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

...declare that those who are in Christ are joint heirs with Him.

But it is undeniable:

There are no promissory clauses for anyone, Jew or Gentile...

Who is not in Christ.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Did God make a separate promise to Jacob's children than He made to Abraham and Isaac's children, of which Jacob was one? I don't believe so. What do you think God promised to Jacob and his children that didn't also apply to Abraham and Isaac's children? Are you talking about a land promise? If so, please read this...

Hebrews 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. 9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: 10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

In the book of Genesis, we learn that God promised Abraham that he would become the father of a great nation and, ultimately, the father of many nations. Because of this promise, God renamed Abram to Abraham, meaning "Father of Many Nations." In his letters to the Romans and the Galatians, the Apostle Paul argues that Abraham is considered the father of our faith. According to Paul, salvation is based on God's declaration that "In you, all the nations will be blessed." This means that those who share Abraham's faith will also be blessed.

In Romans 4, Paul argues that Abraham is the father of the faith to the uncircumcised because Abraham was declared "righteous" while he was uncircumcised. He also notes that Abraham received the sign of circumcision as an act of faith. This is an important qualification because not all those who receive the sign of circumcision do so as an act of faith. Abraham is the father of faith to all those who share the same faith as Abraham, whether circumcised or not. But circumcision is not a prerequisite to justification.

As to the question of what God promised to Jacob, we need only go as far as the opening verses of chapter 9, where Paul makes that claim. In verse 4, he says that the "adoption as sons" belongs to them. He reiterates this theme in Romans 11:26, drawing upon Isaiah 59:20-21, which speaks of a redeemer coming to Zion to turn transgressions away from Jacob. God uses this passage to emphasize God's plan for Israel's salvation.

How does God turn transgressions away from anyone, including Israel? He circumcises their heart and opens their eyes to see that Salvation is in Jesus Christ.

 

[CadyandZoe]

There were Israelites in the Galatian Church.

So you're claiming that Galatians 4:28 was not addressed to them.

Better tell Paul.

I thought you understood the difference between what a statement is about and to whom the statement is addressed.

 

[Davidpt]

To me this is all a mystery. Why does Revelation 22:15 mention the "dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie" as though they still exist - just not in the holy city?

Maybe everything exists "in the presence of" the Lamb (God) and His holy angels? He is above all things. Does that not mean He cannot see all things?

Maybe you are just looking at some of it somewhat wrong? That's possible, right? Maybe verse 15 is not being applied to the NHNE in the future but is being applied to the here and now spiritually? Let's look at things a bit closer.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.


I would think we have to interpret verse 15 in light of verse 14.

Verse 14 says--Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

When does one do His commandments, in order to blessed, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city?

Revelation 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.


Don't they have to first fulfill this in this age---him that overcometh---before they can be blessed in the next age with having right to the tree of life, and that they may enter in through the gates into the city?

These in Revelation 22:15 will not be blessed in the next age with having right to the tree of life, that they may enter in through the gates into the city, the fact in this age they are not overcomers, they are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

If nothing else, what I just submitted here might prove Amil not Premil. You never know.

 

[covenantee]

I thought you understood the difference between what a statement is about and to whom the statement is addressed.

Did Paul understand the difference?

 

[CadyandZoe]

In God's New Will and Testament, all covenants and promises are fulfilled only in Christ, and in those who are in Christ.

The OT covenants and promises are the promissory clauses of God's Old Will and Testament, and they are both revoked and fulfilled in the promissory clauses of His New Will and Testament, written in the Blood of His Son Jesus Christ, the Divine Testator, coming into full force and effect upon His death.

If you have made your own Will and Testament, you will see that the very first clause states the following or its equivalent:

"I HEREBY REVOKE all former Wills and other testamentary dispositions by me at any time therefore made and declare this to be my Last Will and Testament."

This means that all former wills and testaments, and all of their promissory clauses in their entirety, are completely null and void. In their place, the promissory clauses of the current last new will and testament are the only ones in force and effect. Any promissory clause which appeared in the old will and testament, but does not appear in the new will and testament, is irrevocably null and void unless yet another new will and testament is made which re-includes it.

Thus we see:

Hebrews 9
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Hebrews 10
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

Hebrews 8
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

God`s New Will and Testament is everlasting:

Hebrews 13
20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant.

There is none greater.

We see other new promissory clauses of the New Will and Testament in:

Matthew 21:33-45
In this parable, the son, who is identified as the heir, typifies Christ.

Galatians 3:16
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

2 Corinthians 1:20
For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Hebrews 1:1,2
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

In them, we see that the Heir and Beneficiary is Christ alone, that all of the promises are affirmed and confirmed in Him, and that He is Heir of all things. All includes the OT land promises, the restoration promises, the blessings promises, and all else. There are no exceptions.

God has appointed His Son alone as heir of all things. Unbelieving Israel is not an heir. Galatians 4:30-31.

His New Will and Testament contains even better promises:

Hebrews 8
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Such as:

Hebrews 11
16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Additional promissory clauses in...:

Romans 8:16-17
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Galatians 3:29
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

...declare that those who are in Christ are joint heirs with Him.

But it is undeniable:

There are no promissory clauses for anyone, Jew or Gentile...

Who is not in Christ.

I understand the temptation to rip verses out of context to prove a doctrine you already believe. I get that, which is why I said that the meaning of a passage depends on the question being answered. Unless we resist the temptation, we come to a verse seeking an answer to our question, rather than seeking to understand the Biblical author's question. If you bring your covenant theology to the Bible, you will see it everywhere. But if you or I want to understand the theology that Jesus and the Apostles held, then we need to set aside our beliefs and allow them to correct us if necessary.

What is the central question in Romans 9? What objection to Paul's understanding of salvation is addressed in Romans 9 through 11? Galatians 3 responds to a completely different objection. What distinguishes the topic in Romans 9 from the topic in Galatians 3?

 

[covenantee]

I understand the temptation to rip verses out of context to prove a doctrine you already believe. I get that, which is why I said that the meaning of a passage depends on the question being answered. Unless we resist the temptation, we come to a verse seeking an answer to our question, rather than seeking to understand the Biblical author's question. If you bring your covenant theology to the Bible, you will see it everywhere. But if you or I want to understand the theology that Jesus and the Apostles held, then we need to set aside our beliefs and allow them to correct us if necessary.

What is the central question in Romans 9? What objection to Paul's understanding of salvation is addressed in Romans 9 through 11? Galatians 3 responds to a completely different objection. What distinguishes the topic in Romans 9 from the topic in Galatians 3?

If you have Scriptures disproving the Scriptures that I present, then please present yours.

If you are unable to understand the Scriptures that I present, then just leave them for those who are.

Only a remnant of Israel will be saved. Isaiah 10:22; Romans 9:27

Two Israels.

Romans 9
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

1. Of Israel:
Not all Israel
The children of the flesh
Not the children of God
Not the children of the promise
Not counted for the seed

2. All Israel:
Not of Israel
Not the children of the flesh
The children of God
The children of the promise
Counted for the seed

Only one of these two Israels shall be saved.

Romans 11
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Only faithful obedient spiritual "all Israel" in Christ, comprised of the believing elect beloved remnant from Israel (Romans 9:27; Romans 11:1-5,26,28), and believers from among the Gentiles (Romans 11:11), shall be saved.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Did Paul understand the difference?

Of course. All we need to do is to reflect on what it is like to read a letter written to someone else. Sometimes the letter contains information that we both need to hear, and sometimes the letter contains information that the recipient needs to hear.

Reading a letter meant for someone else is like stepping into a conversation you were never meant to be part of—a glimpse into a world that isn’t entirely yours. There’s a certain intimacy to it, even if the letter isn’t deeply personal.

Reading an epistle feels like stepping into someone else's correspondence, except that it's written for a broader audience. You get the sense that you're witnessing a conversation between the writer—often Paul or another apostle—and the recipients, whether a church, a group of believers, or an individual. There's a personal tone, yet the words are meant to instruct, encourage, and even correct.

Unlike an ordinary letter, an epistle carries deep theological weight. It isn’t just about sharing news or emotions—it’s about guiding people in faith, shaping doctrine, and responding to challenges faced by the early church. There's an urgency in the words, a sense of conviction, and often an appeal to remember the truths of God.

What makes epistles especially fascinating is that while they were written to specific people in specific times, they still speak powerfully to modern readers.

However, an epistle can be written to recipients about someone else or another group. Some epistles address specific individuals or communities while speaking about other groups. For example, Paul often wrote to churches but included teachings or warnings about other groups, such as unbelievers, Judaizers, or even fellow believers in different cities.

 

[Zao is life]

Maybe you are just looking at some of it somewhat wrong? That's possible, right?

LOL. Yes, that's possible. To be honest I don't know how to interpret what God's new creation looks like after the time of the LoF/second death.

Maybe verse 15 is not being applied to the NHNE in the future but is being applied to the here and now spiritually?

Yes, that should be obvious but it's mentioned as existing outside the city - and the city still has gates that some may enter into the city through but others may not. So what exists outside those gates? Well Revelation 21:27 and Revelation 22:15 both mention something existing outside those gates. Or do those described there no longer exist because they have been cast into the LoF, which is the second death, and have ceased to exist?

Is the Lake of fire that Satan and the beast and false prophet will be thrown into (Revelation 19:20 & 20:10) a different lake of fire than the one described in Revelation 20:14-15 and Revelation 21:8?

IMO it's one and the same lake of fire, and the duration of the torment experienced by them who worshiped the beast, which is mentioned in Revelation 14:11 seems to be the same as the duration of the torment experienced by Satan, which is mentioned in Revelation 20:10. Are we meant to notice this? Or is it just coincidence?

It seems to me that the lake of fire is one and the same lake of fire, but not all created things which are destined for it will be thrown into it at the same time. The first is the beast & false prophet. And that lake of fire is the second death, according to both Revelation 2014: and Revelation 21:8.

The duration of Satan's torment in Revelation 20:10 is the same as the duration for which the smoke of the torment of those who worshiped the beast ascends in Revelation 14:11 - to the ages of the ages.

I have no idea as to whether or not it's talking about ECT, and either no one has of yet ever given me an insight that is truly insightful, or someone has, but I failed to notice.

Let's look at things a bit closer.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

I would think we have to interpret verse 15 in light of verse 14.

Where is "without" in relation to the city being spoken about in verse 14?

Verse 14 says--Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

When does one do His commandments, in order to blessed, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city?

Before the GWT, at least. But that does not explain my previous question.

Revelation 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.


Don't they have to first fulfill this in this age---him that overcometh---before they can be blessed in the next age with having right to the tree of life, and that they may enter in through the gates into the city?

Yes but that does not explain my first question. Where is "without the city"? It's the lake of fire, obviously. But why is it spoken of as existing without the city?

These in Revelation 22:15 will not be blessed in the next age with having right to the tree of life, that they may enter in through the gates into the city, the fact in this age they are not overcomers, they are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Yes but not if those who are deceived by Satan at the close of the first thousand years of the ages of the ages are immortals who are deceived like Adam was and take part in that final rebellion. Such would also be included in the dogs, sorcerers etc - and they will not be included during this age into that group of people - not even if they were immortals as most Premils and I believe yourself also seem to think they will be.

But that still doesn't explain my first question.

If nothing else, what I just submitted here might prove Amil not Premil. You never know.

It proves neither Amil nor Premil IMO.

 

[CadyandZoe]

If you have Scriptures disproving the Scriptures that I present, then please present yours.

That isn't how it works. As I said earlier, you have ripped verses out of context, and I warned you that when we rip verses out of context to make a point, we are in danger of making them say whatever we want them to say.

Only a remnant of Israel will be saved. Isaiah 10:22; Romans 9:27

I agree with you, and I have never said otherwise.

However, I disagree with your interpretation of Romans 9:6. Paul does not argue that there are two ways to define "Israel:" physically and spiritually. He uses the term "Israel" twice: once about the people of the promise and again about Jacob, their progenitor. He means to say that not all those descended from Jacob will comprise the "Israel" of the promise.

Romans 11
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Only faithful obedient spiritual "all Israel" in Christ, comprised of the believing elect beloved remnant from Israel (Romans 9:27; Romans 11:1-5,26,28), and believers from among the Gentiles (Romans 11:11), shall be saved.

Once again, Paul discusses the Israel of the promise, indicating that God will remove ungodliness from Jacob. It’s important to note that he specifies God will remove ungodliness from Jacob rather than from all of humanity or mankind. This suggests that there will come a time in the future when God will focus on the descendants of Jacob and eliminate ungodly individuals from among them specifically.
.

 

[covenantee]

That isn't how it works. As I said earlier, you have ripped verses out of context, and I warned you that when we rip verses out of context to make a point, we are in danger of making them say whatever we want them to say.

I agree with you, and I have never said otherwise.

However, I disagree with your interpretation of Romans 9:6. Paul does not argue that there are two ways to define "Israel:" physically and spiritually. He uses the term "Israel" twice: once about the people of the promise and again about Jacob, their progenitor. He means to say that not all those descended from Jacob will comprise the "Israel" of the promise.

Once again, Paul discusses the Israel of the promise, indicating that God will remove ungodliness from Jacob. It’s important to note that he specifies God will remove ungodliness from Jacob rather than from all of humanity or mankind. This suggests that there will come a time in the future when God will focus on the descendants of Jacob and eliminate ungodly individuals from among them specifically.
.

God is not a racist.

Nor can He be contorted into one. Romans 2:28,29

 

[CadyandZoe]

God is not a racist.

Nor can He be contorted into one.

Did Paul say that Jesus' pedigree was one of his qualifications to be the messiah? Romans 1:3

 

[WitnessX]

Age of Creation
The first four Onahs make up the first 2000-year Age, 1-2000 AM or 3925-1925 BC.

Age of Torah
Onahs five through eight make up the second 2000-year Age, 2001-4000 AM or 1926 BC - AD 75.

Age of Grace
Onahs nine through twelve make up the third 2000-year Age, 4001-6000 AM or AD 75-2075.

Age of the Kingdom
Onahs thirteen and fourteen make up this fourth Age which only lasts 1000 years. It is commonly called the Millennium, 6001-7000 AM or AD 2076-3075.

we are absolutely premellennialism. We are in the last jubilee period of the age of grace. 2025-2075. Jesus Christ‘s first coming was 29-32 AD, His second return will be within this jubilee, and likely sooner rather than later. Just as He came early on in the last jubilee of the age of Torah. 2032 AD would be exactly 2000 years.

I'm not endorsing the catholic church theology, that being said that’s exactly why you have the last pope prophecy, Leo is the last pope.

God is not a liar.

be careful or get ready.

 

[covenantee]

Did Paul say that Jesus' pedigree was one of his qualifications to be the messiah? Romans 1:3

Did Peter say that anyone's pedigree was their salvation? Acts 10:34,35

 

[WPM]

Age of Creation
The first four Onahs make up the first 2000-year Age, 1-2000 AM or 3925-1925 BC.

Age of Torah
Onahs five through eight make up the second 2000-year Age, 2001-4000 AM or 1926 BC - AD 75.

Age of Grace
Onahs nine through twelve make up the third 2000-year Age, 4001-6000 AM or AD 75-2075.

Age of the Kingdom
Onahs thirteen and fourteen make up this fourth Age which only lasts 1000 years. It is commonly called the Millennium, 6001-7000 AM or AD 2076-3075.

we are absolutely premellennialism. We are in the last jubilee period of the age of grace. 2025-2075. Jesus Christ‘s first coming was 29-32 AD, His second return will be within this jubilee, and likely sooner rather than later. Just as He came early on in the last jubilee of the age of Torah. 2032 AD would be exactly 2000 years.

I'm not endorsing the catholic church theology, that being said that’s exactly why you have the last pope prophecy, Leo is the last pope.

God is not a liar.

be careful or get ready.

These are invented terms that disagree with Scripture.

 

[WitnessX]

These are invented terms that disagree with Scripture.

False, you saith that. God is not a liar. it’s proven. You’re lack of understanding doesn’t make it not true.

 

[Davidpt]

Is the Lake of fire that Satan and the beast and false prophet will be thrown into (Revelation 19:20 & 20:10) a different lake of fire than the one described in Revelation 20:14-15 and Revelation 21:8?

That might be like asking, if two convicted criminals get sent to prison for their crimes, where one gets 5 years the other gets life, does this mean they can't be the same prison both are sent to? Obviously, it can be the same prison without everyone sent there, their fates having to be the same. Just because one prisoner gets life in prisoner, that doesn't mean everyone sent there also gets life. I'm not implying Universal-ism, though. I'm not implying anyone ever gets out of the LOF eventually. What I am saying, maybe after they have paid for what they have done in life, they then become as if they had never existed? IOW, some suffer longer than others before they become as if they had never existed.

IMO it's one and the same lake of fire, and the duration of the torment experienced by them who worshiped the beast, which is mentioned in Revelation 14:11 seems to be the same as the duration of the torment experienced by Satan, which is mentioned in Revelation 20:10. Are we meant to notice this? Or is it just coincidence?

As to this, maybe you could be correct, since I have thought along these lines myself, regardless that I appear to be arguing that no humans will be tormented for ever and ever. And if so, this couldn't be including every single human cast into the LOF, though. What happens to the other humans cast into the LOF where worshiping the beast is not applicable to them? Or do you believe as Amils believe? That all of the lost since the beginning of time that are cast into the LOF, it is because they worshiped the beast and it's image?

But then again, maybe I was right to begin with, that no humans will be tormented in the LOF forever without end. And that I'm arguing that verse 10 does not mention the 2nd death, but verses 11-15 do. And that verses 11-15 does not mention being tormented forever and ever, but verse 10 does. And that Revelation 21:8 calls it the 2nd death, only mentioned in Revelation 20:11-15 and not in verse 10 as well.

 

[WPM]

False, you saith that. God is not a liar. it’s proven. You’re lack of understanding doesn’t make it not true.

OK then. Show us these terms in God's Word! I will not hold my breath.

 

[WitnessX]

OK then. Show us these terms in God's Word! I will not hold my breath.

Seek and you shall find, that math is in Gods word. It’s not rocket science. Men just like to complicate things and the devil likes to hide them and cause confusion. Seven days, a day as a thousand years, seven thousand years, we’ve nearly completed six thousand, we have a thousand more, the kingdom is coming. He tells us plainly, don’t miss it by 18”.

Did not Christ not come first in 28/29? was he not crucified in 32/33? The last jubilee period of that era was 25-75 AD. Was not the Temple destroyed in 70 AD? The Age of Grace was fully implemented by 75 AD. Are we not almost 2000 years exactly from His first coming?

and on the seventh day God rested, the Millennium kingdom, will be the last thousand Years, and for a little season, and in the last jubilee of that period, the last 50 years, who knows but God, satan will be dealt with for eternity.

God Bless and much love, you’ll see soon. Tribulation is coming and soon, but our Blessed Hope will come back on a white horse and with a sword, Amen and Glory to God.