Premillennialism contradicts scripture (1 Corinthians 15:50-54) by having mortal flesh and blood inheriting the kingdom of God when Jesus returns.

[Spiritual Israelite]

And you equally explain away passages that tend to prove Premil, thus disprove Amil. Such as Matthew 19:28. Such as Revelation 3:9. Such as Revelation 3:21 in light of Revelation 21:4, 6, and Matthew 25:31. So on and so on.

How do those disprove Amill? Matthew 19:28 says nothing about ruling over an earthly millennial kingdom after Jesus returns. Neither do Revelation 3:9 and Revelation 3:21. Your evidence for proving Premil is very flimsy.

Can you show me where Jesus refers to those who supposedly will populate the earth after He comes in Matthew 25:31-46?

And I didn't even need to bring the OT up and I still provided Scriptures that you have to explain way per Amil.

We don't have to explain away any OT prophecies. You are not even able to provide an interpretation of those prophecies that we supposedly explain away. Where is the clear, straightforward scripture that you use to support your doctrine?

 

[Davidpt]

Do you just forget everything that Amills ever tell you? We do not believe the beast (first beast) and the false prophet (second beast) are individual human beings, so what you're saying does not apply to what we believe. You just insist on misrepresenting Amill over and over again and it seems that you will never stop doing that.

Just because Amils don't believe the beast (first beast) and the false prophet (second beast) are individual human beings, doesn't mean I agree with them about the latter, nor does it mean the Bible even agrees with them about the latter. The latter might be meaning humans. Not one singular human, but humans that represent the false prophet, as in many of them. As to the former, I have no dispute with that. The latter though, is debatable. And I'm looking at it from the perspective it is debatable, therefore, I'm not misrepresenting your view. Your view does not undeniably prove you are correct about the latter as well.

I don't know why you keep conflating someone attempting to debunk your view, with that of misrepresenting your view? If I am correct that the FP is meaning humans, you then have to explain how any humans can be devoured by fire and not even die as a result of it. After all, Revelation 19:20 proves that the FP wasn't devoured by anything whatsoever, and that presents a problem with your view IF the FP is meaning humans.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Just because Amils don't believe the beast (first beast) and the false prophet (second beast) are individual human beings, doesn't mean I agree with them about the latter, nor does it mean the Bible even agrees with them about the latter.

I didn't say it did mean that. But, you need to address what we believe, not what you believe. If you want to argue that the beast and false prophet are human beings, then go ahead, but you should address Amil according to what we believe. And, based on our understanding of Revelation 19:11-21, it does not contradict Revelation 20:9.

The latter might be meaning humans. Not one singular human, but humans that represent the false prophet, as in many of them. As to the former, I have no dispute with that. The latter though, is debatable. And I'm looking at it from the perspective it is debatable, therefore, I'm not misrepresenting your view.

You ARE misrepresenting our view by trying to force your own view into our view.

Your view does not undeniably prove you are correct about the latter as well.

I didn't say it did. Good grief.

I don't know why you keep conflating someone attempting to debunk your view, with that of misrepresenting your view?

You come across as if there are no other options besides the beast and false prophet being human beings so that means we are automatically contradicting Revelation 19 with our view. But, obviously, what the beast and false prophet represent is debatable. So, prove that they are human beings then.

If I am correct that the FP is meaning humans, you then have to explain how any humans can be devoured by fire and not even die as a result of it. After all, Revelation 19:20 proves that the FP wasn't devoured by anything whatsoever, and that presents a problem with your view IF the FP is meaning humans.

Yes, that would be true in that case, but you need to prove that the false prophet refers to humans then. I see no evidence for that. The false prophet is also the second beast that comes up out of the earth and has two horns like a lamb and speaks like a dragon (Revelation 13:11). Explain to me how that describes human beings.

 

[WPM]

And you equally explain away passages that tend to prove Premil, thus disprove Amil. Such as Matthew 19:28. Such as Revelation 3:9. Such as Revelation 3:21 in light of Revelation 20:4, 6, and Matthew 25:31. So on and so on. And I didn't even need to bring the OT up and I still provided Scriptures that you have to explain away per Amil.

This is all noise and no substance. This is exactly how Jack Van-Imp operates. Make sweeping extra-biblical claims, don't quote Scripture, just reference it, and think that the rest of us are foolish enough to take your word for it. No! We have learned the danger of that. None of these teach Premillennialism. Quite the opposite! They teach Amillennialism.

Matthew 19:28

When Jesus comes in His glory, Jesus said, in Matthew 19:28, “Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration [Gr. paliggenesia] when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.”

Where does this mention or support a future sin-cursed goat-infested death-blighted Premil millennium? Nowhere! This is more adding to Scripture on your behalf.

This Greek word paliggenesia simply means renewal, restoration recreation, and regeneration. The word often used to denote the restoration of a thing to its pristine state.

Premils have no answer to the fact that Scripture shows the regeneration of the earth, heavens and elements to occur at Christ’s return, not after some supposed future millennial kingdom blighted with sin and sinners, dying and crying, disease and decay, corruption and crime, riots and rebellion, war and terror and Satan and his minions of the Premil scenario, including the pointless slaughter of countless innocent animals during that period.

The fact is: sin, death, disease, Satan, the wicked, wickedness and decay corrupt this current age, but are banished from the age to come at the end with the regeneration of the whole cosmos.

I agree with what Albert Barnes says on “the regeneration" here: “the word also means any great change, or a restoration of things to a former state or to a better state. In this sense it is probably used here. It refers to that great revolution-that restoration of order in the universe-that universal new birth which will occur when the dead shall rise, and all human things shall be changed, and a new order of things shall start up out of the ruins of the old, when the Son of man shall come to judgment. The passage, then, should be read, ‘Ye which have followed me shall, as a reward in the great day of the resurrection of the dead, and of forming the new and eternal order of things-the day of judgment, the regeneration – be signally honored and blessed’.”

Other translations seem to agree with this conclusion, interpreting this passage:

• "In the new world" ESV
• “In the new creation” Weymouth NT
• "When the world is made new" NLT
• "At the renewal of all things" NRSV

Revelation 3:9

Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

Where is your future millennium mentioned or inferred here? This shows how bereft you are of any corroboration.

Revelation 3:21

Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Where is your future millennium mentioned or inferred here? This shows how bereft you are of any corroboration.

I am sure you would agree that it would have to be a mighty big throne to sit all the redeemed at the one time on. Is this what it is literally saying? Or, is there a spiritual meaning here?

I believe He is talking about the spiritual standing we enjoy “in Christ” through our spiritual union with him. When you are united to Christ you possess spiritual power and authority. Anything that we are, or anything that we possess, that is of any spiritual worth, emanates solely from what Christ has done for us and how we partake in that.

Our Lord promises that we will one day sit with Him on His throne and share His power and authority.

Matthew 25:31-33

Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

Where is you're supposed imaginary millennium mentioned here? Nowhere! This actually teaches the opposite. It forbids your doctrine.

This is the second coming and the general judgment. All mankind are before the same throne at the same time: sheep on right, goats on left. Simple! Saved or lost, heaven or hell, caught up or caught on

It is “the sheep” alone (vv 32-33), who are identified as “ye blessed” (v 34) and “the righteous,” that “inherit the kingdom” (v 34), which in turn is shown to be “life eternal” (v 46). Only the glorified elect can fulfil this description. This proves that inheritance into the kingdom of God is also inheritance into eternity bliss. Surely none could deny that entrance into eternal life equals eternal inheritance. To equate this company with unbelievers is to butcher the text, bless what God curses, curse what God blesses, redefine clear and explicit biblical terms and invent a third group of people that Scripture knows nothing about.

The only other group that Christ recognizes is “the goats” (vv 33 & 34), who are labelled as “ye cursed” (v 41); who are cast “into everlasting fire” (v 41) and receive “everlasting punishment” (v 46).

Please note: both of these sentences carry eternal consequences. They are final. They cannot be overturned. The eternal state of man is fixed here. The righteous and the wicked simultaneously receive their eternal reward at the glorious return of Christ. The judgment they experience involves the righteous and the unrighteous entering either God’s eternal kingdom or being banished to eternal punishment, the lake of fire. The second coming distinctly ushers in eternity.

 

[CadyandZoe]

What are you talking about? The righteous are going to inherit the regenerated earth - the new heavens and new earth, not some imaginary semi-glorious/semi-corrupt kingdom that is half-liberated and half-bound.

This is beside the point. The Kingdom of God is something to be inherited, and since it is inherited, it is not a present reality. Both can't be true at the same time.

 

[WPM]

This is beside the point. The Kingdom of God is something to be inherited, and since it is inherited, it is not a present reality. Both can't be true at the same time.

This is gibberish.

 

[CadyandZoe]

That is complete nonsense. Why do you make no differentiation between the spiritual kingdom of God we're in now due to having been born again (born of the Spirit) and the future coming of the kingdom of God in its fullness that we will inherit with immortal bodies?

Your question is irrelevant and shows your lack of knowledge. Anything that is yet to be inherited is not a present reality. You should know this.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

We don't jump from verse to verse seeking a haven for our mistaken ideas. We face the facts squarely and allow the Bible to correct our errors. The Kingdom is something to be inherited; as such, it is not a present reality, but rather a future grant. Only when we are certain of that fact can we enter the Gospel of John and understand that you have misunderstood what Jesus said.

He is not suggesting that an individual enters the kingdom of God the moment they are born again. Rather, he emphasizes that entering the kingdom of God is a profound inheritance that awaits us. This inheritance signifies a future reality, one that will be revealed in its fullness when God chooses to manifest it in His perfect timing.

I'm not talking about right now.

You seem a bit confused on that point.

 

[jeffweeder]

This is beside the point. The Kingdom of God is something to be inherited, and since it is inherited, it is not a present reality. Both can't be true at the same time.

1Pet 1
4 [born anew] into an inheritance which is imperishable [beyond the reach of change] and undefiled and unfading, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are being protected and shielded by the power of God through your faith for salvation that is ready to be revealed [for you] in the last time.

 

[Davidpt]

1Pet 1
4 [born anew] into an inheritance which is imperishable [beyond the reach of change] and undefiled and unfading, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who are being protected and shielded by the power of God through your faith for salvation that is ready to be revealed [for you] in the last time.

1 Peter 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,


We are to believe that something incorruptible, and that fadeth not away, can fit in an age that is corruptible and fadeth away? After all, it's not like this present age is not going to fade away at some point. It's impossible to fit something involving all of eternity into something that isn't involving all of eternity, such as this present age. It's clues like this that should help us determine where something can logically fit and where it can't logically fit.

 

[jeffweeder]

1 Peter 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,


We are to believe that something incorruptible, and that fadeth not away, can fit in an age that is corruptible and fadeth away? After all, it's not like this present age is not going to fade away at some point. It's impossible to fit something involving all of eternity into something that isn't involving all of eternity, such as this present age. It's clues like this that should help us determine where something can logically fit and where it can't logically fit.

Eph 3
16 May He grant you out of the riches of His glory, to be strengthened and spiritually energized with power through His Spirit in your inner self, [indwelling your innermost being and personality], 17 so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through your faith. And may you, having been [deeply] rooted and [securely] grounded in love, 18 be fully capable of comprehending with all the saints (God’s people) the width and length and height and depth of His love [fully experiencing that amazing, endless love]; 19 and [that you may come] to know [practically, through personal experience] the love of Christ which far surpasses [mere] knowledge [without experience], that you may be filled up [throughout your being] to all the fullness of God [so that you may have the richest experience of God’s presence in your lives, completely filled and flooded with God Himself].

 

[Zao is life]

How does one in an immortal bodily state get devoured by fire to begin with? To be devoured by fire in this manner surely means to die, something impossible for anyone in an immortal bodily state to do since that would contradict what Luke 20:36 plainly tells us--Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels.

I'm going to make a statement and then attempt to explain how I get there:

IMO immortality for CREATED human beings does not mean we cannot be destroyed - soul and body - by the God who created us. Only God has life that is indestructible in Himself and only the Son of God possesses in Himself His own immortality, according to scripture.

I believe the churches misconstrue what it means to be immortal. To be immortal simply means your body is alive forever - UNLESS you stop abiding in the Vine of life - the source of life of all creation, and sin, and the God who CREATED you, destroys you - soul and body - by fire.

Through my studies in the scriptures I've come to realize that immortality - which is associated with being alive in a human body that does not die - is dependent upon having eternal life,

and it's extremely important to carefully consider this, because firstly, life exists IN God alone, and only because God exists. Without the existence of God there is no life. Paul said, "In Him (God) we live | are alive [zao], and move, and have our being; For we are also his offspring." (Acts 17:28).

Life is in God alone - and in the Logos:

"The Logos of God was in the beginning with God. In Him was life [zōḗ], and the life [zōḗ] was the light of men." (John 1:2 & 4).

"And the Logos became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we (John the apostle and his companions) beheld his glory (the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.)" (John 1:14).

Secondly, among human beings, only the Son of God has life in Himself:

"For as the Father hath life [zōḗ] in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life [zōḗ] in himself." (John 5:26).

Eternal life is in Christ alone.

The eternal life in Christ that God has given to CREATED human beings who do not have eternal life in ourselves, is in Christ alone, and He alone possesses eternal life in Himself:

"God has given to us eternal life [zōḗ], and this life [zōḗ] is in His Son: He that has the Son has (eternal) life; and he that has not the Son of God has not (eternal) life [zōḗ]." (1 John 5:11-12).

No CREATED human being has eternal life in himself. The eternal life of any created human being who has been given eternal life is in Christ: Jesus told those who believed in Him:

"I am in my Father, and ye (will be) in me, and I in you."
(John 14:19b-20b)

In Colossians 1:27 Paul talks about "the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints, which is Christ IN you, the hope of glory."

So if anyone - any CREATED human being - has been given eternal life by God, your eternal life is not in yourself, but IN CHRIST, who alone has life IN HIMSELF. Christ in you = eternal life in you.

Jesus said, "The kingdom of God does not come with external evidence that can be observed. Nor will they say, 'Look, here it is!' or 'It's over there!' For take heed, be discerning, and perceive this: The kingdom of God is within you." (Luke 17:21).

Jesus also told us that unless we are born of the Spirit of God we cannot see or experience the Kingdom of God.

Paul said, "When Christ, who is our life [zōḗ], shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory." (Colossians 3:4).

IMPORTANT: This explains why, even though (BEFORE he sinned, and BEFORE death came to mankind), Adam was alive, had eternal life, and was able to eat of the tree of life freely (he was immortal), yet he died the moment he sinned.

Satan had said to him, "You will not surely die".

Thirdly, I have come to realize that - just ike Adam (BEFORE he sinned and BEFORE death came to mankind) - though we be immortal following the resurrection of our bodies, yet because we will never possess eternal life in ourselves (only God does), CREATED human beings can never possess our immortality in ourselves:

Immortality: To live | be alive [zao] forever (never dying).

"He (Christ) alone possesses immortality and lives in unapproachable light, whom no human has ever seen or is able to see. To him be honor and eternal power! Amen." (1 Timothy 6:15-16).

"For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has given to the Son to have life within Himself" (John 5:26).

So part of the New Covenant is that CREATED human beings will once again have immortal bodies when our dead bodies have been resurrected from the dead, but since Adam sinned and died - and forever - the death of CREATED human beings is the evidence of the fact that only Christ possesses (His own) immortality because only Christ has eternal life in Himself.

No created human being possesses eternal life in itself. Only Christ possesses eternal life in Himself.

No created human being who does not possess (eternal) life [zoe] in itself can of itself live | be alive [zao] forever, without dying (possess its own immortality).

Satan told mankind: "You will not surely die".

"For this reason Christ died [apothnesko] and rose again from the dead [anistemi], and lived again [anazao: lived again in a body that is not dead], so that he may be the Lord of both the dead [nekros] and living [zao: those who are alive in a body that is not dead]." (Romans 14:9).

Jesus said, "Do not fear, I am the First and the Last, and the Living One, and I became dead, and behold, I am alive for ever and ever, Amen. And I have the keys of hades and of death." (Revelation 1:17-18)

"God has saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us IN Christ Jesus before the world began, but is now made visible by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ,
who has broken the power of death, and has brought life (zoe) and immortality to light through the gospel." (2 Timothy 1:9-10).

Jesus the Messiah is the Vine of (eternal) life [ZOE]. Eternal life is in Christ, who alone has life [zoe] in Himself. Only God has life [zoe] in Himself (John 1:2 & 4; John 5:26; 1 John 5:11-12); and He said:

--- I am the vine, ye are the branches. Abide in me, and I in you, because if a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned, and as the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. --- (John 15:4-6, verses rearranged).

So, in other words. I do not believe in the validity of your argument regarding CREATED human beings who are alive in human bodies that do not die, not being capable of being destroyed both soul and body in the fire by the CREATOR who created us. I.O.W, I do not believe in OSAS either now, or when we have become immortal.

I believe the churches misconstrue what it means to be immortal. To be immortal simply means your body is alive forever - UNLESS you stop abiding in the Vine of life - the source of life of all creation, and sin, and the God who CREATED you, destroys you - soul and body - by fire. ​

 

[Davidpt]

I'm going to make a statement and then attempt to explain how I get there:

IMO immortality for CREATED human beings does not mean we cannot be destroyed - soul and body - by the God who created us. Only God has life that is indestructible in Himself and only the Son of God possesses in Himself His own immortality, according to scripture.

I believe the churches misconstrue what it means to be immortal. To be immortal simply means your body is alive forever - UNLESS you stop abiding in the Vine of life - the source of life of all creation, and sin, and the God who CREATED you, destroys you - soul and body - by fire.

Through my studies in the scriptures I've come to realize that immortality - which is associated with being alive in a human body that does not die - is dependent upon having eternal life,

and it's extremely important to carefully consider this, because firstly, life exists IN God alone, and only because God exists. Without the existence of God there is no life. Paul said, "In Him (God) we live | are alive [zao], and move, and have our being; For we are also his offspring." (Acts 17:28).

Life is in God alone - and in the Logos:

"The Logos of God was in the beginning with God. In Him was life [zōḗ], and the life [zōḗ] was the light of men." (John 1:2 & 4).

"And the Logos became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we (John the apostle and his companions) beheld his glory (the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.)" (John 1:14).

Secondly, among human beings, only the Son of God has life in Himself:

"For as the Father hath life [zōḗ] in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life [zōḗ] in himself." (John 5:26).

Eternal life is in Christ alone.

The eternal life in Christ that God has given to CREATED human beings who do not have eternal life in ourselves, is in Christ alone, and He alone possesses eternal life in Himself:

"God has given to us eternal life [zōḗ], and this life [zōḗ] is in His Son: He that has the Son has (eternal) life; and he that has not the Son of God has not (eternal) life [zōḗ]." (1 John 5:11-12).

No CREATED human being has eternal life in himself. The eternal life of any created human being who has been given eternal life is in Christ: Jesus told those who believed in Him:

"I am in my Father, and ye (will be) in me, and I in you."
(John 14:19b-20b)

In Colossians 1:27 Paul talks about "the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints, which is Christ IN you, the hope of glory."

So if anyone - any CREATED human being - has been given eternal life by God, your eternal life is not in yourself, but IN CHRIST, who alone has life IN HIMSELF. Christ in you = eternal life in you.

Jesus said, "The kingdom of God does not come with external evidence that can be observed. Nor will they say, 'Look, here it is!' or 'It's over there!' For take heed, be discerning, and perceive this: The kingdom of God is within you." (Luke 17:21).

Jesus also told us that unless we are born of the Spirit of God we cannot see or experience the Kingdom of God.

Paul said, "When Christ, who is our life [zōḗ], shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory." (Colossians 3:4).

IMPORTANT: This explains why, even though (BEFORE he sinned, and BEFORE death came to mankind), Adam was alive, had eternal life, and was able to eat of the tree of life freely (he was immortal), yet he died the moment he sinned.

Satan had said to him, "You will not surely die".

Thirdly, I have come to realize that - just ike Adam (BEFORE he sinned and BEFORE death came to mankind) - though we be immortal following the resurrection of our bodies, yet because we will never possess eternal life in ourselves (only God does), CREATED human beings can never possess our immortality in ourselves:

Immortality: To live | be alive [zao] forever (never dying).

"He (Christ) alone possesses immortality and lives in unapproachable light, whom no human has ever seen or is able to see. To him be honor and eternal power! Amen." (1 Timothy 6:15-16).

"For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has given to the Son to have life within Himself" (John 5:26).

So part of the New Covenant is that CREATED human beings will once again have immortal bodies when our dead bodies have been resurrected from the dead, but since Adam sinned and died - and forever - the death of CREATED human beings is the evidence of the fact that only Christ possesses (His own) immortality because only Christ has eternal life in Himself.

No created human being possesses eternal life in itself. Only Christ possesses eternal life in Himself.

No created human being who does not possess (eternal) life [zoe] in itself can of itself live | be alive [zao] forever, without dying (possess its own immortality).

Satan told mankind: "You will not surely die".

"For this reason Christ died [apothnesko] and rose again from the dead [anistemi], and lived again [anazao: lived again in a body that is not dead], so that he may be the Lord of both the dead [nekros] and living [zao: those who are alive in a body that is not dead]." (Romans 14:9).

Jesus said, "Do not fear, I am the First and the Last, and the Living One, and I became dead, and behold, I am alive for ever and ever, Amen. And I have the keys of hades and of death." (Revelation 1:17-18)

"God has saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us IN Christ Jesus before the world began, but is now made visible by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ,
who has broken the power of death, and has brought life (zoe) and immortality to light through the gospel." (2 Timothy 1:9-10).

Jesus the Messiah is the Vine of (eternal) life [ZOE]. Eternal life is in Christ, who alone has life [zoe] in Himself. Only God has life [zoe] in Himself (John 1:2 & 4; John 5:26; 1 John 5:11-12); and He said:

--- I am the vine, ye are the branches. Abide in me, and I in you, because if a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned, and as the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. --- (John 15:4-6, verses rearranged).

So, in other words. I do not believe in the validity of your argument regarding CREATED human beings who are alive in human bodies that do not die, not being capable of being destroyed both soul and body in the fire by the CREATOR who created us. I.O.W, I do not believe in OSAS either now, or when we have become immortal.

I believe the churches misconstrue what it means to be immortal. To be immortal simply means your body is alive forever - UNLESS you stop abiding in the Vine of life - the source of life of all creation, and sin, and the God who CREATED you, destroys you - soul and body - by fire. ​

When the lost is cast into the LOF, how are you interpreting their fate? Does it mean eternal conscience torment or does it mean annahilation eventually? In order for the former to be true one has to obviously be immortal first, both body and soul, since ECT can't logically apply to someone not in an immortal body and soul state. Therefore, my position is the latter not the former. I don't know what your position is, thus why I ask.