Premillennialism contradicts scripture (1 Corinthians 15:50-54) by having mortal flesh and blood inheriting the kingdom of God when Jesus returns.

[Spiritual Israelite]

Let's stay on topic and avoid distractions.

That's right. This is true of any inheritance. An inheritance is something we receive, typically after someone passes it down to us—whether it’s money, property, or even values and traditions. In a way, it’s both something we don’t currently have and something that’s destined for us in the future.


Whether spiritually or physically, if it is yet to be inherited, then it is not currently present.

Yes, and I will explain later. Do you deny that the kingdom of God is something to be inherited?

The Bible doesn't talk about the Kingdom of God as being a "spiritual" kingdom. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is a down payment on our inheritance, which is the kingdom of God. And since we inherit the kingdom of God, it is not currently present.


Describing the kingdom of God is not to admit that it currently exists. Paul says that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. Since you and I are flesh and blood, the kingdom of God is not currently present.

Did he? I don't think he did. He said that unless a person is born again, they won't see the kingdom of God. By "see" here, he means "recognize." Nicodemus was able to recognize the kingdom of God in the works of Jesus because Nicodemus was born of the Spirit. He also said that unless a person is born again, he can not enter the kingdom of God. Seeing the kingdom of God, is different than entering the kingdom of God. Entering the kingdom of God, as Paul said, is something we inherit when we reach that day.

Jesus never taught that the kingdom of God was currently present. Instead, he preached repentance because the kingdom of God was "at hand." This phrase meant that the kingdom was near because the King was present. Throughout his ministry, Jesus also instructed his disciples to "seek the kingdom of God and its righteousness." This task reflects our anticipation of the day when the kingdom will be fully realized.

Paul doesn't argue that the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is the kingdom of God. He argues that the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is an earnest of our inheritance. (Ephesians 1:14)

You are confusing two distinct kingdoms: the kingdom of God and the kingdom of His beloved Son. The kingdom of God is something to be inherited; it represents God's rule on Earth, where righteousness will prevail. However, what you are referring to is the kingdom of His beloved Son, which is a spiritual realm characterized by light, wisdom, enlightenment, knowledge, and a deep commitment to the teachings of Jesus.

Consider the following passage from Colossians.

Colossians 1:9-13 For this reason also, since the day we heard of it, we have not ceased to pray for you and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding, so that you will walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, to please Him in all respects, bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God; strengthened with all power, according to His glorious might, for the attaining of all steadfastness and patience; joyously 12 giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified us to share in the inheritance of the saints in Light. For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

Those whom God sanctifies are welcomed into the kingdom of His beloved Son. Paul recognizes that such individuals reside in Colossi, and he prays that they may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding. The kingdom of His beloved Son is characterized by light, enlightenment, spiritual wisdom, and understanding, enabling us to walk in a manner worthy of the Lord. We are now considered holy ones and share in the inheritance of the holy ones who walk in the light.

Many interpretations suggest that the kingdom of God has both a present and a future aspect. Some view it as God’s reign already manifesting spiritually through faith, righteousness, and transformed lives. Others emphasize that the kingdom will ultimately be fulfilled when God rules literally and completely on Earth, bringing justice, peace, and restoration.

However, as we have seen, those who hold this interpretation conflate the Kingdom of God with the Kingdom of His beloved Son. The so-called "present aspect" is the spiritual kingdom of his beloved son, which is a current reality, and the so-called "future aspect" is the kingdom of God when God rules literally and completely on Earth, bringing justice, peace, and restoration.

We accept that all of scripture is self-consistent and true. Therefore, since Paul said that the Kingdom of God is something to be inherited, we understand that Romans 14:17 references a future time when God rules the earth.

As long as you conflate the two concepts, you won't understand God's will for mankind.

I don't expect a cultist to understand that the kingdom of Christ that His followers are in now is the kingdom of God. It's the same kingdom. God the Father gave Jesus all power in heaven and earth (Matthew 28:18). Jesus is God, so His kingdom is God's kingdom. But, someone who denies the deity of Christ can't possibly understand this.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Why make up something for me to believe and then critique what you made up? How is that working out for you?

If you don't believe that mortals will inherit the kingdom of God then you are not even one of the people I'm intending to address in this thread. How is it working out for you to waste your time in a thread that isn't even addressed to someone who doesn't believe that mortals will inherit the kingdom of God?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

If you are perhaps trying to make a connection to Revelation 20:9 with that of Revelation 19:20, per Premil the former would be meaning at the beginning or just prior to the beginning of the millennium. The latter would be meaning after the millennium. Per Amil though, both passages would be meaning after the millennium. Probably doesn't matter in Amils' case since I don't think any of them are trying to make a connection to Revelation 20:9 with that of Revelation 19:20.

I guess the point being, in the event you are attempting to make this connection, this connection seems more plausible per Amil than Premil, except Amils are apparently not trying to make this connection. And if I were an Amil I might be trying to make this connection myself, except that is me not them. Can't tell them what to do or not to do, it's entirely up to them what they might do or might not do. But in my case, only if I were an Amil, except I'm not, but if I were one, I could see myself trying to make that connection.

Why would Amils make a connection between a verse relating to the lake of fire (Rev 19:20) to a verse that is not about the lake of fire (Rev 20:9)?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I'm battling to understand whether you are just making a comparison between what I'm saying about this and what Amil would believe about this.

I believe in a literal millennium to follow the return of Christ that commences at the same time as the NHNE - the first one thousand years of the ages of the ages.

I believe that not all Christians who have ever died in Christ who will be raised from the dead were handed over to tribulation or martyred or had to overcome when faced with a choice between life or death.

I believe that only those who overcome are promised that the second death will not have any authority over them, and I believe that the people who will believe Satan's deception at the close of the millennium are not mortals but they are immortals who had died in Christ and were resurrected when He returned, but became apostate - even as immortals - at the close of the millennium, having been deceived by Satan, just as Adam had been, and had become apostate as a result.

The events of the last three chapters of the Bible are a final conclusion of the events of first three chapters.

So I make no connection between those who will receive the mark of the beast at the close of this age (Revelation 19) and the above (Revelation 20).

The beast and false prophet will be thrown alive into the lake of fire at the close of this age. The lake of fire is also the destiny of all humanity whose names are not written in the Book of Life because Revelation tells us that all humanity will worship the beast, except those whose names are written in the Book of Life, and Revelation also tells us that the destiny of those who receive the mark of the beast and who worship the beast is the lake of fire.

That leaves only resurrected Christians who are immortal but had become apostate even as immortals (like Adam had done) to fulfill what Revelation 20 tells us about the deception of Satan and the Gog-Magog nations.

To me the fire coming down from God out of heaven and devouring them is the same as saying they were destroyed both soul and body in the lake of fire.

The rest of the dead who lived not again until the thousand years are finished, those whose names are not found written in the Book of Life, will be the final group to be thrown into the lake of fire.

I don't see mortals in the millennium.​

I'm trying to understand what you're saying here, but it's a view that I've never seen before. So, bear with me. If I'm understanding you right here, you believe that some Christians who have died will be resurrected with immortal bodies when Jesus returns, but then will live on the earth for a thousand years and then be tested by Satan and some of them (all of them?) will fall away from the faith and end up in the lake of fire? Do I have this right?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Ignore what all I said about Revelation 20:9 and Revelation 19:20, since I now see it has no relevance to your view. If nothing else, as of this post I am at least finally beginning to understand your position, I think.

What I have to question first is your understanding of Adam's state when he is created. You seem to think, unless you tell me otherwise, therefore making me wrong to assume you seem to think this, that God created Adam immortal. Let's start with this then. Assuming that is what you think, why would you think that in light of the following---But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die(Genesis 2:17).

How can someone created immortal be threatened with death, something that obviously contradicts immortality? To me immortality and death are opposites, thus are contradictory if someone immortal can die, yet is not contradictory if someone that dies can then become immortal. Except no one, meaning any human, can become immortal to begin with unless they die first then are bodily raised later, the latter being when they initially put on immortality. I guess with the exception of those still alive and remaining when the 2nd coming occurs. But even then they can't become immortal in the meantime. They too have to be changed in the twinkling of an eye at the last trump.

I am very confused about what he believes because the word "immortal" means this:

immortal (adjective): living forever; never dying or decaying.

If someone is immortal then they can never die. Yet, he has the bodies and souls of immortals being destroyed in the lake of fire. How can immortals be destroyed when the word immortal means that you live forever and can never die?

He also says those immortals were Christians when they died and then they were resurrected as immortals and end up falling away later. But, scripture says that believers will be resurrected unto eternal life (Daniel 12:2, John 5:28-29), so it's not possible that they could be resurrected and then later be destroyed in the lake of fire.

 

[WPM]

Let's stay on topic and avoid distractions.

That's right. This is true of any inheritance. An inheritance is something we receive, typically after someone passes it down to us—whether it’s money, property, or even values and traditions. In a way, it’s both something we don’t currently have and something that’s destined for us in the future.


Whether spiritually or physically, if it is yet to be inherited, then it is not currently present.

Yes, and I will explain later. Do you deny that the kingdom of God is something to be inherited?

The Bible doesn't talk about the Kingdom of God as being a "spiritual" kingdom. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is a down payment on our inheritance, which is the kingdom of God. And since we inherit the kingdom of God, it is not currently present.


Describing the kingdom of God is not to admit that it currently exists. Paul says that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. Since you and I are flesh and blood, the kingdom of God is not currently present.

Did he? I don't think he did. He said that unless a person is born again, they won't see the kingdom of God. By "see" here, he means "recognize." Nicodemus was able to recognize the kingdom of God in the works of Jesus because Nicodemus was born of the Spirit. He also said that unless a person is born again, he can not enter the kingdom of God. Seeing the kingdom of God, is different than entering the kingdom of God. Entering the kingdom of God, as Paul said, is something we inherit when we reach that day.

Jesus never taught that the kingdom of God was currently present. Instead, he preached repentance because the kingdom of God was "at hand." This phrase meant that the kingdom was near because the King was present. Throughout his ministry, Jesus also instructed his disciples to "seek the kingdom of God and its righteousness." This task reflects our anticipation of the day when the kingdom will be fully realized.

Paul doesn't argue that the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is the kingdom of God. He argues that the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is an earnest of our inheritance. (Ephesians 1:14)

You are confusing two distinct kingdoms: the kingdom of God and the kingdom of His beloved Son. The kingdom of God is something to be inherited; it represents God's rule on Earth, where righteousness will prevail. However, what you are referring to is the kingdom of His beloved Son, which is a spiritual realm characterized by light, wisdom, enlightenment, knowledge, and a deep commitment to the teachings of Jesus.

Consider the following passage from Colossians.

Colossians 1:9-13 For this reason also, since the day we heard of it, we have not ceased to pray for you and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding, so that you will walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, to please Him in all respects, bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God; strengthened with all power, according to His glorious might, for the attaining of all steadfastness and patience; joyously 12 giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified us to share in the inheritance of the saints in Light. For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

Those whom God sanctifies are welcomed into the kingdom of His beloved Son. Paul recognizes that such individuals reside in Colossi, and he prays that they may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding. The kingdom of His beloved Son is characterized by light, enlightenment, spiritual wisdom, and understanding, enabling us to walk in a manner worthy of the Lord. We are now considered holy ones and share in the inheritance of the holy ones who walk in the light.

Many interpretations suggest that the kingdom of God has both a present and a future aspect. Some view it as God’s reign already manifesting spiritually through faith, righteousness, and transformed lives. Others emphasize that the kingdom will ultimately be fulfilled when God rules literally and completely on Earth, bringing justice, peace, and restoration.

However, as we have seen, those who hold this interpretation conflate the Kingdom of God with the Kingdom of His beloved Son. The so-called "present aspect" is the spiritual kingdom of his beloved son, which is a current reality, and the so-called "future aspect" is the kingdom of God when God rules literally and completely on Earth, bringing justice, peace, and restoration.

We accept that all of scripture is self-consistent and true. Therefore, since Paul said that the Kingdom of God is something to be inherited, we understand that Romans 14:17 references a future time when God rules the earth.

As long as you conflate the two concepts, you won't understand God's will for mankind.

Denying the deity of Christ colors your view of every scriptural doctrine. That is why you invent various kingdoms within the kingdom of God. Because you do not believe that Jesus is God, you differentiate between the kingdom of His Son and the kingdom of God. That's what heresy produces.

 

[WPM]

If you are perhaps trying to make a connection to Revelation 20:9 with that of Revelation 19:20, per Premil the former would be meaning at the beginning or just prior to the beginning of the millennium. The latter would be meaning after the millennium. Per Amil though, both passages would be meaning after the millennium. Probably doesn't matter in Amils' case since I don't think any of them are trying to make a connection to Revelation 20:9 with that of Revelation 19:20.

I guess the point being, in the event you are attempting to make this connection, this connection seems more plausible per Amil than Premil, except Amils are apparently not trying to make this connection. And if I were an Amil I might be trying to make this connection myself, except that is me not them. Can't tell them what to do or not to do, it's entirely up to them what they might do or might not do. But in my case, only if I were an Amil, except I'm not, but if I were one, I could see myself trying to make that connection.

You are the last person on these forms that has the right to speak on behalf of Amils. There's no one who is more clueless on that position. Stop doing it!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You are confusing two distinct kingdoms: the kingdom of God and the kingdom of His beloved Son. The kingdom of God is something to be inherited; it represents God's rule on Earth, where righteousness will prevail. However, what you are referring to is the kingdom of His beloved Son, which is a spiritual realm characterized by light, wisdom, enlightenment, knowledge, and a deep commitment to the teachings of Jesus.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

If "the kingdom of His beloved Son" is a completely different kingdom than "the kingdom of God" then how can it be that the Father's beloved Son will deliver up His kingdom to God the Father? What do you think, that when Jesus delivers the kingdom to God the Father it then becomes a completely different kingdom? That doesn't make any sense.

Think about when Prince Charles became King Charles recently. Was the kingdom he inherited a completely different kingdom than his mother Queen Elizabeth reigned over? No. It's the same kingdom. The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. So, it is with the kingdom Jesus reigns over. It is the kingdom of God and He will deliver it to God the Father when He comes at the end.

 

[Zao is life]

You seem to think that God created Adam immortal.

Let's start with this then.

How can someone created immortal be threatened with death, something that obviously contradicts immortality? To me immortality and death are opposites, thus are contradictory

My view of the immortality of what is created - the creature - is different to yours. Most Christians misunderstand what immortality is, I've noticed. Not all Christians - but most.

ABSOLUTE TRUTH: Immortality is dependent on life - eternal life - forever and ever.

The only source of life is the Creator. The only source of all life is the only source of immortality, because immortality is dependent on life - eternal life.

Consider God's creation, but do not consider the life God gives to the created thing AS THOUGH the created thing is the Creator (the source of that life). If you do you will misunderstand the immortality of the created thing:

Genesis 2:7 (Septuagint): καὶ ἔπλασεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν ἄνθρωπον χοῦν ἀπὸ τῆς γῆς καὶ ἐνεφύσησεν εἰς τὸ πρόσωπον αὐτοῦ πνοὴν ζωῆς καὶ ἐγένετο ὁ ἄνθρωπος εἰς ψυχὴν ζῶσαν.

"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life [zoe]; and man became a living [zao] soul [psuche]."

Zoe: life. Source: God, who is Spirit.
Zao: to be alive | to be living. In the case of created human beings, always associated with living in the body God created human beings to exist in.
Eternal Zao: Immortality.
Eternal Zoe: Eternal life. Source: God

Before Adam began to die, he was living | alive [zao] forever, freely able to eat of the tree of life. God had breathed the Spirit of life [zoe] into Him and he had become a living [zao] being. That's immortality.

On the other hand, Zoe (life) - the source - is associated with the Spirit of Christ / God, in Whom is life.

In the case of human beings who are created, zao (not zoe) is always associated with being alive | living in THE created human body that God designed human beings to live in. (God did not create a spirit and place it on the earth calling it Adam).

Adam died. He died because the creature - the created thing - is not the source of the (eternal) life that it's dependent on. Adam lost the only source of his life - and because immortality (being alive forever) is dependent on eternal life, Adam began to die.

Life is in the Word of God - the Logos - the Creator of all things. (John 1:4). The Word of God said to Adam:

"Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." (Genesis 2:16-17).

In the Hebrew it reads, "dying you will die".

But Satan deceived mankind - and the deception started with these words:

"Ye shall NOT surely die". (Genesis 3:4).

Before he sinned, Adam believed the lie. Believing the lie was in effect calling God a liar.

Those who believe that it's impossible for the CREATED thing - that does not possess eternal life in itself - to lose its immortality if it sins against God, do not understand what immortality is, because immortality is dependent on having eternal life.

Also, because the created thing is not the source of life, the created thing could also NOT produce its own resurrection from the death of its body. Only the Word of God - who is the Creator of all things - could do that - by taking on human flesh, and dying for the created human being AS a created human being (though not a created human being Himself),

and rising again.

Eternal life (zoe] is in the Word of God, and only comes through believing the Word of God.

Having the Spirit of Christ in you is the gospel - because the Spirit of Christ in you will make your mortal (dying) body alive and your mortal body will be resurrected from the dead, and then you will have become zao forever - immortal.

The first time a created human being lost his immortality, he died. But the created thing is STILL not the Creator, so we will always need to have a reverential fear of Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in gehenna,

and we need to fear Him and know that He is able to destroy both soul and body in gehenna even when we have become immortal - because even though immortality means being alive in your own created (and resurrected) body forever, (without dying),

it does not mean that you possess the eternal life [zoe] in yourself that your immortality will always, always, always be dependent on.

This is why Christ (the Son of the living God) ALONE possesses life [zoe] in Himself (from eternity):

"For as the Father hath life [zōḗ] in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life [zōḗ] in himself." (John 5:26).

Jesus has (eternal) life [zoe] in Himself. This is why He ALONE possesses His immortality:

"Who alone possesses immortality and lives in unapproachable light, whom no human has ever seen or is able to see. To him be honor and eternal power! Amen." 1 Timothy 6:16

I'm not surprised that @Spiritual Israelite is also confused by this. It's scary how FEW Christians there are in 2025 who understand it. They think immortality means God created other Gods besides Himself that will possess eternal life in themselves (like ONLY GOD does) which (eternal life) is the source of immortality.

But God - the Spirit of God - is the ONLY source of all life.

So the way most Christians understand immortality, they seem to think that immortality means that God created other Gods besides Himself, because they think that the source of our immortality is ourselves - instead of GOD being the source.

If the source of immortality is eternal life and the source of eternal life is not YOU, then you CAN lose your immortality..

The first time a created human being lost his immortality, he died. But the created thing is STILL not the Creator, so we will always need to have a reverential fear of Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in gehenna,

This is the lie those who believed they cannot lose the source of immortality (Adam & Eve) believed:

"You will NOT surely die".​

 

[Zao is life]

If someone is immortal then they can never die.

"And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die."(Genesis 3:4).

Who was, and will be the source of the life of any created person who is immortal (including your own life and immortality)? You?

I am very confused about what he believes because the word "immortal" means this:

immortal (adjective): living forever; never dying or decaying.

You need to have eternal life [zoe] in God through the Spirit of God abiding IN YOU in order to remain eternally alive | immortal [zao].

Your theology teaches that that eternal life and source of being alive forever is yourself.

Who is the source of immortality? You?

The source of life [zoe] is the Spirit of God. The source of eternal life [zoe] is the Spirit of God.

Though your definition of immortality - based on your understanding of immortality - implies that God created other Gods besides Himself with eternal life [zoe] in themselves so that the source of their eternal zao (immortality) is themselves, this idea is a lie, Spiritual Israelite.

It's the first lie.

The source of immortality (eternally alive - zao in a resurrected body) is the same as the only source of eternal life.

You need to have eternal life [zoe] in God through the Spirit of God abiding IN YOU in order to remain eternally alive | immortal [zao].

Your theology teaches that that eternal life and source of being alive forever is yourself.

Yet, he has the bodies and souls of immortals being destroyed in the lake of fire. How can immortals be destroyed when the word immortal means that you live forever and can never die?

Who is the Creator who is able to destroy both soul and body in the lake of fire?

You?

He also says those immortals were Christians when they died and then they were resurrected as immortals and end up falling away later. But, scripture says that believers will be resurrected unto eternal life (Daniel 12:2, John 5:28-29),

Whose Spirit is the source of eternal life?

Yours?

The Almighty Creator is able to destroy both soul and body in the lake of fire. The created human being who is immortal can choose to no longer abide in the Vine of life.

That choice will still be there when it will be offered one last time at the close of the thousand years when Satan uses the same lie he used with Adam and Eve to deceive immortals.

It's no too difficult. Most seem to believe it already, because their theology teaches it - as your post shows.

so it's not possible that they could be resurrected and then later be destroyed in the lake of fire.

So according to you the Creator of all things will unable to destroy both soul and body in the lake of fire - so not ALL things are possible with God?

And this according to you is because though the source of immortality is eternal life, the source of the eternal life is not God, but the created thing?

The source of eternal life [zoe] is the Spirit of God. The source of immortality (eternally alive - zao) is the same source.

You need to have eternal life [zoe] in God through the Spirit of God abiding IN YOU in order to remain eternally alive | immortal [zao].

Your theology teaches that that eternal life and source of being alive forever is yourself.

The Almighty Creator is able to destroy both soul and body in the lake of fire. The created human being who is immortal can choose to no longer abide in the Vine of life.

That choice will still be there when it will be offered one last time at the close of the thousand years when Satan uses the same lie to deceive immortals.

You already believe and adhere to the same theology that is based on the first lie and you are repeating it on his behalf, unknowingly.

If someone is immortal then they can never die.

"And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die".(Genesis 3:4).