Premillennialism contradicts scripture (1 Corinthians 15:50-54) by having mortal flesh and blood inheriting the kingdom of God when Jesus returns.

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Spiritual Israelite

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Peter is writing about Israel
Nope. He is writing about the church there.

1 Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. 6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. 7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, 8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. 9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Notice here that same ones who Peter says are "a royal priesthood" he also says "are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood" and that spiritual house has Jesus Christ as its "chief corner stone". That is a description of the church similar to how Paul described the church here:

Ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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We arent kings and priests Israel is and they arent reigning currently Exodus 19;6
John said Jesus made us (the church) kings and priests (Rev 1:5-6) and Peter said we (the church) are "a royal priesthood" (1 Peter 2:9). You are not accepting what scripture teaches, which I noticed about you before when we have talked. I don't think you interpret even one single verse of scripture correctly. It seems that your religion may be Judaism rather than Christianity.
 

Doug

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The destruction Peter and Paul describe occur immediately when the day of the Lord's coming arrives unexpectedly and not 1,000+ years later. Despite that destruction, Peter says we look forward to the new heavens and new earth, so God is going to renew the heavens and earth by fire when Jesus comes, resulting in the new heavens and new earth.
The new heavens and earth that Peter is looking forward to dont occur til after the 1000yrs Rev 20:7
 

Spiritual Israelite

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The new heavens and earth that Peter is looking forward to dont occur til after the 1000yrs Rev 20:7
Correct. But, Peter indicated that they will be ushered in as a direct fulfillment of the promise of Christ's second coming (2 Peter 3:13), so that places the timing of His second coming after the thousand years.

Peter indicates that the heavens and earth will be burned up unexpectedly when Jesus comes as a thief in the night (2 Peter 3:10-12). Why do you have the burning up of the heavens and earth occurring 1,000+ year after that when Peter indicated no such thing? Paul also said that "sudden destruction" from which "they shall not escape" will occur when the day of the Lord's coming comes as a thief in the night (1 Thess 5:2-3). He indicated that the "sudden destruction" will occur immediately when the day of the Lord comes, not 1,000+ years later. You are not accepting what passages like 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 and 2 Peter 3:10-13 teach.
 

Doug

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Nope. He is writing about the church there.

1 Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. 6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. 7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, 8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. 9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Notice here that same ones who Peter says are "a royal priesthood" he also says "are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood" and that spiritual house has Jesus Christ as its "chief corner stone". That is a description of the church similar to how Paul described the church here:

Ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
Only believing Israel was said to be a priesthood Paul never says this
 

Doug

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John said Jesus made us (the church) kings and priests (Rev 1:5-6) and Peter said we (the church) are "a royal priesthood" (1 Peter 2:9). You are not accepting what scripture teaches, which I noticed about you before when we have talked. I don't think you interpret even one single verse of scripture correctly. It seems that your religion may be Judaism rather than Christianity.
You cant find where Paul says we are a royal priesthood
 

Doug

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Correct. But, Peter indicated that they will be ushered in as a direct fulfillment of the promise of Christ's second coming (2 Peter 3:13), so that places the timing of His second coming after the thousand years.
Christ comes at the end of the tribulation and ushers in the day of the Lord
The day extends to the new heavens and earth
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Only believing Israel was said to be a priesthood Paul never says this
You're not addressing my point. I'll try one more time. If you don't actually address what I say here, then I'm done with you.

1 Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. 6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. 7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, 8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. 9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Notice here that the same ones who Peter says are "a royal priesthood" he also says "are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood" and that spiritual house has Jesus Christ as its "chief corner stone". That is a description of the church similar to how Paul described the church here:

Ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Do you think there is any difference between the "holy priesthood" and the "spiritual house" that was "built up" with Jesus as its chief cornerstone that Peter described and the "household of God" that was "builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit" with Jesus as its chief cornerstone that Paul described?
 
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TribulationSigns

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You cant find where Paul says we are a royal priesthood

Spiritual Israelites is correct. We, the church, are a royal priesthood—a spiritual house where Christ is the chief cornerstone of that building. Paul confirmed what Peter said; you need to read what he wrote again carefully! You denied the Word of God through Peter and Paul.

1 Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. 6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. 7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, 8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. 9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
Notice here that same ones who Peter says are "a royal priesthood" he also says "are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood" and that spiritual house has Jesus Christ as its "chief corner stone". That is a description of the church similar to how Paul described the church here:
Ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
 
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Doug

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You're not addressing my point. I'll try one more time. If you don't actually address what I say here, then I'm done with you.

1 Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. 6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. 7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, 8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. 9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Notice here that the same ones who Peter says are "a royal priesthood" he also says "are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood" and that spiritual house has Jesus Christ as its "chief corner stone". That is a description of the church similar to how Paul described the church here:

Ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Do you think there is any difference between the "holy priesthood" and the "spiritual house" that was "built up" with Jesus as its chief cornerstone that Peter described and the "household of God" that was "builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit" with Jesus as its chief cornerstone that Paul described?
There can be two households one of believing Israel and one the body of Christ,,,,,,,,that doesnt mean the body of Christ is a priesthood
There are two churches one of believing Israel and one the body of Christ just as there can be two households
 
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Doug

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Spiritual Israelites is correct. We, the church, are a royal priesthood—a spiritual house where Christ is the chief cornerstone of that building. Paul confirmed what Peter said; you need to read what he wrote again carefully! You denied the Word of God through Peter and Paul.

1 Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. 6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. 7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, 8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. 9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
Notice here that same ones who Peter says are "a royal priesthood" he also says "are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood" and that spiritual house has Jesus Christ as its "chief corner stone". That is a description of the church similar to how Paul described the church here:
Ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
This is exactly what Siritual Isralite wrote in post #988 here above you
Are you both getting this from the same source?
Here is the answer I gave him,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
There can be two households one of believing Israel and one the body of Christ,,,,,,,,that doesnt mean the body of Christ is a priesthood
There are two churches one of believing Israel and one the body of Christ just as there can be two households
 
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WPM

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This is exactly what Siritual Isralite wrote in post #988 here above you
Are you both getting this from the same source?
Here is the answer I gave him,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
There can be two households one of believing Israel and one the body of Christ,,,,,,,,that doesnt mean the body of Christ is a priesthood
There are two churches one of believing Israel and one the body of Christ just as there can be two households
Not true!

Our Savior is seen challenging the Jewish leaders of His day, in John 8:32, saying, ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”

To which they responded, “We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?” (v 33).

Jesus replied, “I know that ye are Abraham's seed (obviously speaking naturally); but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you. I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father(vv 37-38).

The Jews then boasted,Abraham is our father” (v39).

Christ responds to this misguided boast of these hypocrites, saying, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant [or slave] of sin. And the servant [or slave] abideth not in the house for ever: but the son abideth ever. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you. I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father” (John 8:34-38).

There is such a battle going on here between the natural and the spiritual. The unbelieving religious Jews are pushing their genetic pedigree here as proof of their connection to Abraham, whereas Christ is trying to show them a spiritual truth – showing them that Israel’s inheritance is not secured by native heritage but rather by spiritual means What Jesus was basically saying is: ‘you might be a physical descendent of Abraham and yet not qualify to be a son or a child of God. What then would your ethnic DNA matter?’ He is showing them that faith matters!

These religious Jews had no revelation of their own innate sin. They were depending upon their own self-righteousness. Little did they know it, but man’s only deliverer from sin was standing in their midst. Every man since Adam is born with original sin and therefore stands completely guilty before a righteous God. In the first Adam (the first nature) all are sinners and therefore destined to lost eternity. Jews and Gentiles approach God on the same grounds being collectively blighted with the same disfigurement – sin. They consequently require the same cure (the only medicine for this affliction) – the blood of Jesus. All men are on a level playing field when it comes to birth. All are equally required to submit to the exact same requirements – faith in Christ and repentance towards God.

Christ responded to the ignorance of the Jewish leaders: If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham. Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it” (vv 39-44).

Our Savior hits these religious imposters clean between the eyes with marksman’s accuracy and sobering truth. Firstly, He informed them that they had no right to consider themselves as “Abraham's children.” He advanced: “If ye were Abraham's children” speaking in a spiritual sense, and “If God were your Father” also speaking spiritually, “ye would love me.” What He was telling them was: if you truly were Abraham’s children then your life and conduct would be like him and his. He was telling them that behavior reveals identity. He goes even further, He informs them that the evidence of them being true children of Abraham is demonstrated by them loving Him. This is the litmus test of who is a true child of Abraham and what it is to be part of God’s chosen people.

Secondly, He identifies their true father as Satan. This would have been explosive and offensive to these proud religiously Jewish leaders. Jesus demonstrated that favor with Him didn’t come through natural pedigree but rather spiritual pedigree. Those Jews who rejected God’s offer of salvation were not under blessing but under a curse. They were not in any way considered as God’s chosen people. They were children of the devil and they were heading to hell.
 
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WPM

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There can be two households one of believing Israel and one the body of Christ,,,,,,,,that doesnt mean the body of Christ is a priesthood
There are two churches one of believing Israel and one the body of Christ just as there can be two households
The Gentiles who believe in Christ do not form a new people of God. They become part of an already existing faithful Israel. So, New Testament Gentiles have not replaced ethnic Israel, they have joined spiritual remnant Israel.

Jesus said, speaking to His Jewish converts, in John 10:14-16, “I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.”

Who was God going to unite us to? Was it Christ-rejecting Jews in the Middle east or was it faithful remnant Israel?

Christ was simply informing these Jewish believers that grace was going to be widened outside of their ethnic race. The Gentiles were about to be brought into the same unitary fold of grace as the Jewish believers – on equal terms. The mentioning of two groupings within the body didn't indicate "two folds" any more than references to male and female, rich and poor, free and bond, Jew and Gentile represented multiple folds amongst the people of God. Rather it simply shows the variety of members within the one godly fold.

The continuation of the believing Israeli flock, and its morphing into the New Testament congregation, confirmed the expansion of faithful Israel in the new covenant period. It also explains the Israeli identify of the new covenant people of God and demonstrates the sense of continuity that existed between both covenant eras. Gentiles were now to be corralled into faithful Israel in extraordinary numbers. They trusted in Israel’s Messiah, they joined the old covenant flock, and became the New Testament people of God. This was a radical overhaul for even the most open-minded of Christ’s disciples. We saw that in their parochial response to Christ’s kingdom teaching in Acts 1:6 and with their struggle in the book of Acts to come to terms with accommodating Gentiles joining the congregation (ekklesia) on an equal basis to that of Jews.

Ephesians 2:10-19 declares, “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth (politeia or citizenship – Strong’s 4174) of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens (sumpolites – Strong’s 4847) with the saints, and of the household of God. And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.”

Who was God going to unite us to? Was it Christ-rejecting Jews in the Middle east or was it faithful remnant Israel?

We are enjoined to believing Old Testament Israel through Jesus Christ. We have been made one. The wall of separation is gone forever. Israel has been expanded to embrace all nations today. We are true Israel. We are the circumcision. This union comes exclusively through the blood of Jesus. Anyone who refuses to embrace the cross is an enemy of God, not a friend.

According to this passage, what parties were divided with a spiritual wall? Who has Christ made one? The overwhelmingly Jewish Old Testament redeemed Church and the overwhelmingly Gentile New Testament redeemed Church. This settlement is a spiritual union of believers. This is not a natural arrangement. The fact that Christ and His work on the cross is the means of unification shows that we are looking at God’s elect throughout time. There is no other way of salvation for man.
 

Doug

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There is such a battle going on here between the natural and the spiritual. The unbelieving religious Jews are pushing their genetic pedigree here as proof of their connection to Abraham, whereas Christ is trying to show them a spiritual truth – showing them that Israel’s inheritance is not secured by native heritage but rather by spiritual means What Jesus was basically saying is: ‘you might be a physical descendent of Abraham and yet not qualify to be a son or a child of God. What then would your ethnic DNA matter?’ He is showing them that faith matters!
I agree, however I dont see the connection to the assertion that because we are called the household of God that makes us a priesthood
 

TribulationSigns

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This is exactly what Siritual Isralite wrote in post #988 here above you
Are you both getting this from the same source?

Duh. I QUOTED his post that you need to read AGAIN!
Here is the answer I gave him,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I can see that, and you said...

There can be two households one of believing Israel and one the body of Christ

False!

What I can tell you unequivocally is that the "doctrine" of Dispensationalism and their so called Holy separation is false and without Biblical foundation in the Word of God. I can tell you that it's really a 19th century phenomenon (despite all protests to the contrary) in the church, a infusion of the same errors of the Judaizers in rejecting Christ's Kingdom narrative (Matthew 13:11; Luke 8:120; John 18:36; Romans 14:17). It is a doctrine that cannot be supported by a honest and sound exegesis of Scripture. It destroys God's word of New Covenant theology with Israel, it divides God's people into two nations or two households, it rips God's construct of His people being one body, one people to shreds, and makes God's kingdom carnal and earthly rather than Spiritual and Heavenly.

Ephesians 2:13-18
  • "But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
  • For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
  • Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
  • And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
  • And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
  • For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father."
What distinction, Doug?! The one in the minds of men. Is the New Covenant with Israel number one, and another with Israel number two, or is there one Israel, one Holy Nation, One Holy People, One Holy Generation? Is there one New Covenant with Israel or two? The question really is, why are some not really listening to all God says? Read again...

Ephesians 2:11
  • "Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
  • That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
  • But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
  • For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;"
Are we to say, "wrong God, we are not one but are still two, and you are wrong that we as Gentiles are now citizens of Israel, that we are not one because there is a distinction between us." This seems to me to be the gist of this false teaching. That Gentiles cannot be Jews, the chosen People or Israel in God's eyes.

...which of course contradicts God's word at every turn, and is nothing more than the vestige left over from the same erroneous Judaism that rejected Christ and His TRUE Heavenly Kingdom for a imagined earthly one.


,,,,,,,that doesnt mean the body of Christ is a priesthood

Delusional! The Word of God says we are!

There are two churches one of believing Israel and one the body of Christ just as there can be two households

Show us the Scripture that says this! Else, it is your private interpretation, being brainwashed by the false teachings of Dispensationalism.
 
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Doug

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The Gentiles who believe in Christ do not form a new people of God. They become part of an already existing faithful Israel. So, New Testament Gentiles have not replaced ethnic Israel, they have joined spiritual remnant Israel.
Gentiles and Jew become one new man in the body of Christ/ not part of Israel
 

Doug

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Jesus said, speaking to His Jewish converts, in John 10:14-16, “I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.”
The other sheep are the Jews scattered into other nations
 
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Doug

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Are we to say, "wrong God, we are not one but are still two, and you are wrong that we as Gentiles are now citizens of Israel, that we are not one because there is a distinction between us." This seems to me to be the gist of this false teaching. That Gentiles cannot be Jews, the chosen People or Israel in God's eyes.
In the body of Christ we are a new creature a new man