I heard a preachers when I was very young in the faith says Jesus was a rebel with a cause! 
Pressing into the Kingdom
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Johann
Well-Known Member
Importance of Pressing into the Kingdom Realm:
Matthew 11:12 - "From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been subjected to violence, and violent people have been raiding it." This verse highlights the urgency and fervor required to enter and advance in the kingdom of God.
Matthew 6:33 - "But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well." Prioritizing God's kingdom above all else is crucial for believers.
Accomplishing Pressing into the Kingdom:
Luke 13:24 - "Make every effort to enter through the narrow door because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to." Diligence, commitment, and a conscious effort are needed to press into the kingdom realm.
Colossians 3:1-2 - "Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things." Focusing on spiritual matters and aligning our thoughts with God's kingdom principles is essential.
Role of Faith:
Hebrews 11:6 - "And without faith it is impossible to please God because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him." Faith is foundational in pressing into the kingdom realm as it demonstrates trust in God's promises.
Mark 11:22-24 - Jesus emphasizes the power of faith in moving mountains and receiving answers to prayers. Faith plays a vital role in accessing the blessings and provisions of God's kingdom.
Application:
Pressing into the kingdom realm involves seeking God wholeheartedly, aligning with His will, living out His principles, and prioritizing spiritual growth.
It requires an active pursuit of righteousness, a deepening relationship with God through prayer and study of His Word, and a willingness to surrender to His leading.
Faith acts as the catalyst that propels believers forward in their journey towards God's kingdom, enabling them to overcome obstacles, receive divine guidance, and experience the fullness of His promises.
In conclusion, pressing into the kingdom realm is a vital aspect of Christian living that requires diligence, commitment, and faith. By prioritizing God's kingdom, seeking Him earnestly, and exercising unwavering faith, believers can experience the transformative power and blessings of His realm in their lives.
Johann
Well-Known Member
In Matthew 11:12, the verse states, "From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and the violent take it by force." Here is an exegetical breakdown of this passage along with a focus on the Greek words used:
Greek Words Analysis:
βιάζεται (biazetai): This word means "to use force or violence." It is in the third person, singular, masculine, middle, indicative form. The middle voice in Greek verbs is neither active nor passive but reflexive, indicating action on itself.
βιασταὶ (biastai): This term refers to "violent men" or those who are forceful in their actions.
Interpretation:
The verse signifies a period of intense spiritual conflict and opposition faced by the kingdom of heaven since the time of John the Baptist.
Some interpretations suggest that it reflects the forceful advancement of God's kingdom on earth despite resistance.
The reference to "violent men" could symbolize those who fervently seek to enter God's kingdom or those who oppose it aggressively.
Contextual Understanding:
Jesus likely alludes to the opposition faced by His ministry and the kingdom message from religious leaders like Herod and others.
The verse may also highlight the misconceptions about the nature of God's kingdom prevalent during that time.
Scholarly Insights:
Various scholars offer interpretations ranging from emphasizing forceful advancement of the kingdom to highlighting opposition faced by it.
The context of John the Baptist's ministry and Jesus' subsequent proclamation sheds light on the significance of this verse.
In conclusion, Matthew 11:12 portrays a complex picture of spiritual conflict and advancement in God's kingdom. The use of Greek words like biazetai and biastai underscores the intensity and struggle associated with entering and advancing in the realm of God's rule. The verse invites deeper reflection on the challenges and perseverance required in embracing God's kingdom amidst opposition and spiritual warfare.
Johann
Well-Known Member
Buddhism: Although not explicitly named "eternal consciousness," Buddhism discusses the concept of Nirvana, which is considered a state of eternal consciousness free from suffering and desire. Those who achieve Nirvana cease to exist as individuals and stop the cycle of rebirth and re-death
Certain strands of Western philosophy: Specifically, René Descartes' student Nicolas Malebranche proposed a theory of "Seeing all in God," whereby humans would possess eternal consciousness upon achieving union with God. This view is discussed in the book "The Myths of Plato"
These examples demonstrate that the concept of eternal consciousness is present in diverse philosophical traditions, although it might not always be labeled as such directly.
"To behold the beauty of the Lord"
We are to seek the Lord for His presence and strength...because we have learned to love His ways and the depth of His love around us.
"One thing have I desired of the Lord, that will I seek after; that I may dwell in the house of the Lord all the days of my life, to behold the beauty of the Lord, and to enquire in his temple." Ps. 27:4
"One thing have I desired of the Lord, that will I seek after;"
We are called to seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness. The poverty of our time is that so many have been conditioned to claim things they have never experienced. But we are to seek after God...to seek His face...to seek an actual audience with Him. To be WHERE He is. To be eternally known of Him as our desire for His presence takes precedence in our lives.
"that I may dwell in the house of the Lord all the days of my life,"
Is this a physical temple? No. God has chosen Zion...the eternal kingdom realm and rest in the Spirit...as a place of intimacy with His people...accessible right now. We are to desire to abide there with Him...constrained by the love of God to be where He is. All the days of our lives means there is a keeping power to God's ways...when we receive the full measure of grace He gives willingly to those who forsake the ways of the flesh to adopt His ways alone.
"to behold the beauty of the Lord," לַֽחֲז֥וֹת בְּנֹֽעַם־יְ֜הֹוָ֗ה
I'd like to dwell on this passage as I find this an encouragement to seek deeply for the things of God...even for God Himself.
The word for "behold" deserves a closer look.
חזה-Chazah: Prophesy, perceive, behold (verb)
חזון-Chazon: Prophecy, vision (noun)
חזות-Chazout: Revelation, appearance (noun) (This is the form used in the bible)
חזיון-Chizayon: Vision, phenomenon (noun)
I laid these out to show the quality of what it means to behold the beauty...the eternal pleasantness of God's presence. A prophet in the New Testament is one who is in the presence of God, declaring the things of the Spirit as he/she perceives them by God's power. We are to desire to prophesy...not as a religious status, but because we all need to be encouraged to set our eyes on eternal things and be encouraged to seek the Lord for ourselves.
God can appear to us with or without any actual visuals or even any sound. Being taken up into His presence is the same as being surrounded by His love. His banner over me is love. His covering is love.
So we see the spiritual nature of the kingdom of God given to us through a psalm of David. How did David know God so well? David was sensitive to God's heart and presence. He waited on the Lord...He declared his weaknesses not boasting Himself of his past achievements. He saw his inability to do anything right without the Lord. So God gives grace to the humble.
"and to enquire in his temple"
The word for "enquire" can also mean to examine, to visit, attend.
At this level we are serving the Lord, ministering to Him...attending to Him. And where is His temple? His temple is in Zion.
“In shalem also is his tabernacle, and his dwelling place in Zion.” Ps. 76:2
We are to seek the Lord for His presence and strength...because we have learned to love His ways and the depth of His love around us.
"One thing have I desired of the Lord, that will I seek after; that I may dwell in the house of the Lord all the days of my life, to behold the beauty of the Lord, and to enquire in his temple." Ps. 27:4
"One thing have I desired of the Lord, that will I seek after;"
We are called to seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness. The poverty of our time is that so many have been conditioned to claim things they have never experienced. But we are to seek after God...to seek His face...to seek an actual audience with Him. To be WHERE He is. To be eternally known of Him as our desire for His presence takes precedence in our lives.
"that I may dwell in the house of the Lord all the days of my life,"
Is this a physical temple? No. God has chosen Zion...the eternal kingdom realm and rest in the Spirit...as a place of intimacy with His people...accessible right now. We are to desire to abide there with Him...constrained by the love of God to be where He is. All the days of our lives means there is a keeping power to God's ways...when we receive the full measure of grace He gives willingly to those who forsake the ways of the flesh to adopt His ways alone.
"to behold the beauty of the Lord," לַֽחֲז֥וֹת בְּנֹֽעַם־יְ֜הֹוָ֗ה
I'd like to dwell on this passage as I find this an encouragement to seek deeply for the things of God...even for God Himself.
The word for "behold" deserves a closer look.
חזה-Chazah: Prophesy, perceive, behold (verb)
חזון-Chazon: Prophecy, vision (noun)
חזות-Chazout: Revelation, appearance (noun) (This is the form used in the bible)
חזיון-Chizayon: Vision, phenomenon (noun)
I laid these out to show the quality of what it means to behold the beauty...the eternal pleasantness of God's presence. A prophet in the New Testament is one who is in the presence of God, declaring the things of the Spirit as he/she perceives them by God's power. We are to desire to prophesy...not as a religious status, but because we all need to be encouraged to set our eyes on eternal things and be encouraged to seek the Lord for ourselves.
God can appear to us with or without any actual visuals or even any sound. Being taken up into His presence is the same as being surrounded by His love. His banner over me is love. His covering is love.
So we see the spiritual nature of the kingdom of God given to us through a psalm of David. How did David know God so well? David was sensitive to God's heart and presence. He waited on the Lord...He declared his weaknesses not boasting Himself of his past achievements. He saw his inability to do anything right without the Lord. So God gives grace to the humble.
"and to enquire in his temple"
The word for "enquire" can also mean to examine, to visit, attend.
At this level we are serving the Lord, ministering to Him...attending to Him. And where is His temple? His temple is in Zion.
“In shalem also is his tabernacle, and his dwelling place in Zion.” Ps. 76:2
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Johann
Well-Known Member
Seeking the Lord for His presence and strength:
You correctly identifies seeking the Lord as a primary focus of Psalm 27:4.
Desiring to dwell in the house of the Lord:
You interpret "house of the Lord" metaphorically as referring to the eternal kingdom realm and rest in the Spirit.
Counter:
Although the literal "temple" in Jerusalem was destroyed, the New Testament makes it clear that Christians worship in the spiritual temple of God, consisting of believers united in Christ (1 Peter 2:5). Thus, the "house of the Lord" refers to the community of believers gathered in Christ, not merely the individual's relationship with God.
Beholding the beauty of the Lord:
You focuses on the verb "behold" and its related noun forms, highlighting the spiritual significance of desiring to experience God's presence.
Counter:
The Hebrew term "chazot" (used in Psalm 27:4) implies a deep encounter with God, often involving visions or revelatory experiences. However, the emphasis remains on experiencing God's presence, not simply observing Him from afar.
Enquiring in His temple:
You suggests that "enquiring" involves examining, visiting, attending to God.
Counter:
The Hebrew term "darash" (used in Psalm 27:4) generally connotes searching, studying, or investigating something. In this case, the object of investigation is God Himself.
Overall,your interpretation contains elements of truth but lacks a comprehensive understanding of the original context and language. By drawing on the New Testament and the original Hebrew terms, we can appreciate the richness of Psalm 27:4 and recognize the importance of seeking God's presence, dwelling in His community, and engaging in a profound relationship with Him.
Johann
Well-Known Member
You are conflating--
The statement that "the kingdom of God IS the Promised Land...to be where He is..to abide in the house of God....now and forever" is not directly supported by Scriptural evidence.
In Christian theology, the concept of the kingdom of God often refers to the rule or reign of God in the hearts of believers and the future establishment of His kingdom on earth.
The Promised Land, on the other hand, typically refers to the land promised by God to the descendants of Abraham in the Old Testament.
While there are connections between the kingdom of God and promises of eternal dwelling with God, it is important to note that these concepts are distinct in Christian teachings. The idea of abiding in the house of God forever is more closely related to passages like Psalm 23:6, which speaks of dwelling in the house of the Lord forever.
To provide a more accurate understanding, it would be beneficial to explore relevant biblical passages such as:
Psalm 23:6: "Surely your goodness and love will follow me all the days of my life, and I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever."
John 14:2-3: "My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am."
These verses highlight themes of eternal dwelling with God but do not equate the kingdom of God with the Promised Land directly. It is essential to consider various biblical passages in their context to develop a comprehensive understanding of these theological concepts.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
EPI forgets the part about the man without the WHITE garments . OH HE entered in only to be CAST OUT .
THERE IS NO ENTRY INTO THE FAMILY AND KINGDOM OF GOD , WITHOUT FAITH IN BELIEVING IN JESUS CHRIST .
the man cannot pull the horse and the cart but rather must hitch the cart to the HORSE
GET IN SAID CART and let the HORSE DO THE PULLING .
anyone trying to enter into the family and Kingdom of GOD without FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST
WILL NEVER ENTER INTO the KINGDOM . AND its about HIGH TIME the church gets back TO THAT SIMPLE MESSAGE AGAIN .
It seems to me the simple answer is that we - including me, in spades - lack sufficient faith to live without one foot firmly planted in the world. I think part of it relates to doubt - we "believe," but we don't REALLY REALLY REALLY believe. Part of it is just human nature and expediency. I've often thought how cool it would be to liquidate absolutely everything I have, give the proceeds to reputable charities, and stand on a corner in jeans and a t-shirt saying "Well, God, I did it. Lead on." It's not going to happen, but it would be cool.
Thank you for your honesty. It's a rare thing these days. People would rather hide their unbelief behind religiousities and speculative ideologies that deflect their need for an actual faith in God. Of course faith is hard...We've seen too much of this world and not enough of the next.
realizing this is half the battle. God goes easier on the honest seekers....whether they find or not.
I think it's better to have as if you had nothing. To be strong while considering your own weakness. To be wise while thinking you're just a fool.
@Episkopos listened to your video...
Epi, you are misunderstanding and misrepresenting Matt 11:11b ...and more
Verse 11b does not refer to your personal theory of a two level walk in(to) the Kingdom, in the least. Of your lower walk being of righteousness and the higher of holiness. This doctrine and topic is your own and not one of the Bible. And you have not made any linkage, as you think you have made, with your theory and '2-step walk' found in scripture.
You cannot just present and force your theory into yet another area of scripture as a new thread, and then attempt to rationalize, and persuade folks that your own personal theory of being in the Kingdom is valid and true and is applicable to this thread. I believe your doctrine is very misleading and a complex one that no man can truly understand, let alone perform. It is based on works and not of the Spirit, regardless of how many times you apply your own energies and force your will on God in the process to be in 'your' holy walk as you believe => continuously.
(Php 3:14) I press on toward the goal, to the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
On Paul, and his 'upward call' once again....Paul was inspired and caught up full of the Spirit when he spoke and wrote to fulfill the will of God. HIs upward calling meant this: the 1st call was when they (Philippians) were first saved and began their life in Christ as all believers begin. The 2nd call, the 'upward' call is the growth, maturity, perseverance elements we must obtain, keep and use. To where it becomes second-nature to be in the will and in the service of God. Keep doing his will, stay the course, as in a race to the end, when we would be eventually be called home, raptured up. He lived for it as we also should do the same. This is not your two step or 2- level doctrine teaching at all; separating righteousness and holiness as separate walks.
Matt 11:11b means simply this..
Although John is/was greater than any man who existed before him, and the only given the privileged to open the Kingdom gates to all people, en masse, and even though he might have humbled himself more than all those in, or imminently entering into the Kingdom of Heaven, all these servant qualities of John in his earthy world and his life does/did not count in the Kingdom realm for anything. And of course he really did humble himself as reflected in other verses like Matt 3:11, Luke 3:16 and John 3:30.
And so, the understanding that Jesus wanted us to know is this: no matter the successes or failures, our human greatness or meekness of or in our lives ,living on this earth in this fallen state, it has zero influence or bearing on our status or rank in the Kingdom. We cannot mix earthy acts or events in the service of God even, with the spiritual realm, once in the Kingdom. They cannot be equated or measured in the same way. Remember, that to some are given much and to others very little --including the amount of faith. And we are to use what is given to us and not horde these talents and gifts.
(Mat 11:11) Truly I say to you, among those that are born of women there has not arisen a greater than John the Baptist. Yet he that is the least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
And before I forget, the 'he' as the last word in verse 11, does not mean the generic human person, if that is what you meant. It refers here to John the Baptist only. Yahshua was also comparing Kingdom folks with the earthly works of greatness by John.
Context is king once more.
Epi, you are misunderstanding and misrepresenting Matt 11:11b ...and more
Verse 11b does not refer to your personal theory of a two level walk in(to) the Kingdom, in the least. Of your lower walk being of righteousness and the higher of holiness. This doctrine and topic is your own and not one of the Bible. And you have not made any linkage, as you think you have made, with your theory and '2-step walk' found in scripture.
You cannot just present and force your theory into yet another area of scripture as a new thread, and then attempt to rationalize, and persuade folks that your own personal theory of being in the Kingdom is valid and true and is applicable to this thread. I believe your doctrine is very misleading and a complex one that no man can truly understand, let alone perform. It is based on works and not of the Spirit, regardless of how many times you apply your own energies and force your will on God in the process to be in 'your' holy walk as you believe => continuously.
(Php 3:14) I press on toward the goal, to the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
On Paul, and his 'upward call' once again....Paul was inspired and caught up full of the Spirit when he spoke and wrote to fulfill the will of God. HIs upward calling meant this: the 1st call was when they (Philippians) were first saved and began their life in Christ as all believers begin. The 2nd call, the 'upward' call is the growth, maturity, perseverance elements we must obtain, keep and use. To where it becomes second-nature to be in the will and in the service of God. Keep doing his will, stay the course, as in a race to the end, when we would be eventually be called home, raptured up. He lived for it as we also should do the same. This is not your two step or 2- level doctrine teaching at all; separating righteousness and holiness as separate walks.
Matt 11:11b means simply this..
Although John is/was greater than any man who existed before him, and the only given the privileged to open the Kingdom gates to all people, en masse, and even though he might have humbled himself more than all those in, or imminently entering into the Kingdom of Heaven, all these servant qualities of John in his earthy world and his life does/did not count in the Kingdom realm for anything. And of course he really did humble himself as reflected in other verses like Matt 3:11, Luke 3:16 and John 3:30.
And so, the understanding that Jesus wanted us to know is this: no matter the successes or failures, our human greatness or meekness of or in our lives ,living on this earth in this fallen state, it has zero influence or bearing on our status or rank in the Kingdom. We cannot mix earthy acts or events in the service of God even, with the spiritual realm, once in the Kingdom. They cannot be equated or measured in the same way. Remember, that to some are given much and to others very little --including the amount of faith. And we are to use what is given to us and not horde these talents and gifts.
(Mat 11:11) Truly I say to you, among those that are born of women there has not arisen a greater than John the Baptist. Yet he that is the least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
And before I forget, the 'he' as the last word in verse 11, does not mean the generic human person, if that is what you meant. It refers here to John the Baptist only. Yahshua was also comparing Kingdom folks with the earthly works of greatness by John.
Context is king once more.
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I appreciate that...
That's some compliment...to think I came up with a divine plan to include both the holy and the righteous into a new age of peace and joy in the Lord. I must have come up with the two testaments...the two main laws...the lower of which is called the "royal law".
But I'm not a genius...I simply have eyes to see and ears to hear. God is the one building a new level of holiness (an upper room) on a ground floor of righteousness.
All that is being revealed here is that in your experience it's the same old walk continuously. And that's fine. But to take your experience to cancel out the gospel isn't the right thing to do...so then this misses even the standard of the lower walk ...which is still by leaving room for ALL things being possible in God.
You are applying your energy to not accept anything that's beyond your own purview. Now this is a common thing...seeing in me what you are yourself doing.
My testimony is to be overwhelmed by the grace to stay in a heavenly realm where there is an eternal rest in God...where there is NO sin at all....a holy walk. The bible calls this the "highway of holiness, whereby even a fool cannot err therein.
It takes blind eyes to NOT see the higher walk in the bible, based on the gospel of the high calling in Christ.
You have simply bought into the "after-life" application of every verse...not seeing the necessity to seek the face of God. God is the God of the living, not the dead. You may have missed the memo.
Oh my...this is so forced. You will have to learn Greek it seems. It isn't the least in the kingdom WILL BE greater than John....it is that a person who walks in the Spirit is greater than the greatest one who doesn't....present tense.
Moving everything to a future time makes the gospel NOT present. It makes being born of the Spirit future...it makes the higher calling future.
You have confused faith with a future hope. And by doing that you have thrown away the need of faith.
We enter into the Lord's kingdom realm by faith. But you have denied this. So then no matter how many times you read or hear the gospel, you won't get it.
Behold
Well-Known Member
No one teaches that we are "rich and needing nothing".
Why do you persist in making up false concepts and creating theological straw men just to keep reposting your "higher walk in zion" using a new title, new video, and yet the same old useless teaching?
At least you occasionally change your photos.
Listen, this teaching that you have "borrowed".... does not help Mormons and it didnt help anyone else.
It certainly has not helped you.
And if you can ever understand that the new birth is to become born again into the KOG, = already, and the rest is to "work out your salvation" down here.... and that has nothing to do with trying to become what the new birth has already created as the New Creation in Christ, as "the righteousness of God IN CHRIST" = every born again believer.
Listen..
The born again do not work to complete or work to accomplish what God eternally provides, through the Cross of Christ.
The WORK the born again are to accomplish, is to stop trying to DO IT or become it.... and do this.. instead.
"I DIE DAILY"... "I am crucified with CHRIST"... "Its not I who DO IT< but CHRIST who does it through me".
And what is that 'IT"?
A.) Its CHRISTianity, itself.
Now, @Episkopos i know that you'll only be able to repost your pov redundancy, as your typical response.... as that is every post you offer that isn't some type of personal attack, so i'll leave you to your self called "ministry".
-B
Again, more projecting unto me what you are doing yourself.
Working out your own salvation is not...working out "for yourself" your own salvation. You have left off the need of faith. You have left off the need to seek God's face for the full measure of grace. You have left off selling all to buy the field.
And you will go to great lengths to cancel out the bible and my testimony that calls people to actively seek the Lord for His grace. Instead you have a self-interpreted scheme that sees God waiting for you at the funeral home to stop being a sinner. (Of course you don't think you actually sin, even as you sin.)
Anything to avoid the truth.
Just because you can't seem to understand what being translated into the kingdom realm entails...doesn't mean that others will also be unable. God decides these things. In the meantime denying that through Christ ALL things are possible...is a rejection of faith. With God ALL things are possible. Through Christ I can do ALL things.
Through Christ, what is your testimony? A dead religion based on a Gnostic scheme that blinds God to your true condition? Really? Have you no greater appreciation for God's power than that?
I used to subscribe to the Buddhist magazine Tricycle. In one issue, they asked "How much money is enough?" Various Buddhist luminaries gave their long, well-reasoned answers. The last was an auto mechanic who replied: "Whatever you have is enough." How he even made it into the magazine I have no idea, but the editors must have recognized this was the actual profound, truly Buddhist answer. I think it's the Christian answer as well, at least for most of us. Isn't this what Matthew 6:28-33 ("the lilies of the field") is saying? Spiritually, we also are rich and need nothing - the trick is in actually believing this and living as though it were true. Isn't this what Matthew 17:20-21 ("faith of a mustard seed") is saying?
While a Buddhist may try to get along with whatever human means are at hand...not so the Christian disciple. He realizes that he is poor and needy...since the limitations of the flesh have come to the fore...realizing that the flesh cannot present itself to God, or be pleasing to Him.
Instead we need to BUY eye salve so that we might see...and robes of righteousness to cover our nakedness. Of course those who are spoiled in Ephraim will not lift a finger toward any seeking of God or paying any price...and throw beer cans at you for preaching the truth as they luxuriate in their sunbathing in the afterglow of their presumed justification for some gift or other given to them as a sample of God's goodness.
Rather many modern ego religious types would deny that they think what they have is sufficient...and they lie about it when confronted.
These dishonest types will say that a new birth (if it even happened) is enough to declare themselves as fit for heaven. And this kind of iniquity is promoted and published as if it was the gospel itself.
Well Epi, what truly concerns me with your personal doctrine as you have embedded it now in many threads, is that you really cannot explain the process or the mechanics of it clearly, for common understanding, and more important in scripture. You have to resort to continual misapplication of scripture, many times, to force it in and make it work.I appreciate that...
That's some compliment...to think I came up with a divine plan to include both the holy and the righteous into a new age of peace and joy in the Lord. I must have come up with the two testaments...the two main laws...the lower of which is called the "royal law".
But I'm not a genius...I simply have eyes to see and ears to hear. God is the one building a new level of holiness (an upper room) on a ground floor of righteousness.
All that is being revealed here is that in your experience it's the same old walk continuously. And that's fine. But to take your experience to cancel out the gospel isn't the right thing to do...so then this misses even the standard of the lower walk ...which is still by leaving room for ALL things being possible in God.
You are applying your energy to not accept anything that's beyond your own purview. Now this is a common thing...seeing in me what you are yourself doing.
My testimony is to be overwhelmed by the grace to stay in a heavenly realm where there is an eternal rest in God...where there is NO sin at all....a holy walk. The bible calls this the "highway of holiness, whereby even a fool cannot err therein.
It takes blind eyes to NOT see the higher walk in the bible, based on the gospel of the high calling in Christ.
You have simply bought into the "after-life" application of every verse...not seeing the necessity to seek the face of God. God is the God of the living, not the dead. You may have missed the memo.
Oh my...this is so forced. You will have to learn Greek it seems. It isn't the least in the kingdom WILL BE greater than John....it is that a person who walks in the Spirit is greater than the greatest one who doesn't....present tense.
Moving everything to a future time makes the gospel NOT present. It makes being born of the Spirit future...it makes the higher calling future.
You have confused faith with a future hope. And by doing that you have thrown away the need of faith.
We enter into the Lord's kingdom realm by faith. But you have denied this. So then no matter how many times you read or hear the gospel, you won't get it.
The way you use and define terms or expression like 'walking in the Spirit' or of your '2-level walk' is alien to scripture. Even your thread title here is most probably a coded masked definition of ' pressing into the Kingdom' that means you must include your personal doctrine for it to have any real meaning. And if anyone does not agree with it, and therefore you, they are automatically designated as a target for ridicule, of one who do not know what the Kingdom is all about, entering into it, and out of it, and walking in it.
Your doctrine comes across and explained like an elitist process that you and maybe few others understand and are living it. And the rest of us, down below on the first floor are in the dark, or worst yet, still lost and therefore not truly saved. Admit it, this is actually what MIGHT mean at times, in your personal doctrine. I also believe you callously accuse and assume very little about others and 'their walk' in the Kingdom today unless they can some how buy into your doctrine.
//
Next point...on Matt11:11b.. And I stand firm that the those in the Kingdom, TODAY, are greater than what John the Baptist accomplished and others in this human life on earth. This was Yahshua's point and not a Pauline view you keep leaning to, and then you add to his words.
I never did speak or even consider the after-life as you tend to assume also with many posters, and in my understanding of the 'first' and 'last' in the Kingdom. It applies today and not in the future time. And my Greek understanding of it is fine, and especially its setting or context as you did not consider at all. You were focused on your doctrine, and melted this verse/thought with some of Paul's words who was not speaking as Jesus did in Matthew. And then added in this mysterious 'seeking the face of God' necessary element as part of your doctrine.
Today, anyone past the 1st calling and who are being saved are all 'walking' many slowly walking, and even stopping along their walk, although they are still on their Kingdom walk and seeking the face of God. Your dictation and definition of seeking the face of God is an elitist view that is also alien to scripture. It is also so confusing to understand.
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And that brings up the last point for now....on your 2-level Kingdom walk as you separate righteousness and holiness as your two levels of this walk, and where only the second level is where one can seek and I guess, know the 'face' of God.
After one is being saved and thus being righteous, they are automatically set aside into being holy, on one level and only one level, not two where one has to now apply or exert themselves and perform 'works' of some kind and of a quality, to stay holy in sanctification and see the face of God in the Kingdom. And you believe a person goes in and out of the Kingdom realm. Nothing in scripture points to this exotic idea at all.
This is the major 2nd level floor/flaw, put intended, in your theory and doctrine. You misapply some of Paul's teachings. He did not say work out your salvation in a second level high walk as you couch it, at all.
As I said in my previous post, Paul was in simple language, warning these newbies in Christ to now continue on their walk they first began, and many did in zeal and excitement. To now not dawdle and stop and get diverted into the cares of this world or even get parked on the shoulder of the road. His message was to keep walking, NOW in holiness, as the second call, not the 2nd floor or level, and stay focused and dedicated on this road to the end, in working out their salvation in the process. This is the upward (2nd) calling, yes the 'holy' calling on the same level walk, equivalent to you second floor or higher level of walking IN the Kingdom today.
Both righteousness and holiness are present and are on this one level walk in the Kingdom today, only for a genuine believer of course. Righteousness is akin to the ground they are treading on in their walk, and holiness is the quality of, and in their walk, of each stride, in righteousness; their willingness to serve God even more, towards perfection, towards the prize as Paul said and wrote; that they seek more of it in their service to God and in doing is will.
You cannot just decide to separate righteousness from holiness as SEPARATE level walks as if one is for the commoner and immature and the higher one for the elitist or enlightened. You made that up yourself and it is incorrect and actually annoying to read. These crucial believer attributes are bound together in the same walk, although of different qualities. As some will expand and increase in holiness than others along their walk.
If you actually believe that there exists a righteous only walk as a lower level, you are actually saying that this person walking it is not a true believer. And maybe that is deliberately hidden and signaled in your elitist doctrine. And you are one of the few that has gone beyond just being righteous.
It does then say a lot about your doctrine Epi if what I said is only partially true.
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Johann
Well-Known Member
In short-he is walking the higher walk-and you and I are "unregenerate "
The high calling is into the perfection of Christ. You can call that elitist...as in you need faith.
But I am not a one trick pony as are my detractors. I also see the lower walk...the meek...inheriting the earth...finding a place among the saved righteous nations in the next age. And the saints (the elite) will rule over them.
So there is a salvation from sin NOW...and a future inheritance among the faithful who endure in righteousness till the end.
You are missing what salvation is. You are basing this on a religious qualification...and not a salvation from sin by the grace of God.
You are not seeing how Paul was still seeking to "win" Christ. This is SO little understood that people read the same things over and over without even a glimmer of truth dawning on them.
Why would Paul who was doing miracles till trying to win Christ? Are there ANY honest seekers here?
You are not understanding holiness. ...or righteousness. So its easy to see them all as the same. It's the same with quantum physics...do you see a difference between that and string theory? Or does it all seem the same to you?
Most believers will never know the higher walk....that's why the stubborn ones will complain about it. But a truly righteous person doesn't think they know everything...so they remain humble. God saves the guests as well as the Bride. The nations are to be filled with the righteous...of any and all religious affiliations. Only the saints rule with Christ over the nations.
That is the test of the lower walk...to esteem others as higher than themselves. An example of this is with Cain and Abel. Was Abel not approved by God? Not so Cain. So instead of trying harder or changing his ways, Cain complained...as many many do.
So then you, to be righteous, need to stop acting like Cain...and more like Abel.
If you get it right won't God also accept you?
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Johann
Well-Known Member
The idea that the meek will inherit the earth comes from Jesus' Sermon on the Mount in Matthew 5:5, where He says, "Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth." This statement emphasizes the importance of humility and gentleness in the Christian life, and the promise of inheriting the earth is a future hope for believers.
The concept of the saints ruling with Christ is also found in the Bible. In 2 Timothy 2:12, Paul writes, "If we endure, we will also reign with him." Similarly, in Revelation 20:4-6, John sees thrones and people sitting on them, and he says that they will reign with Christ for a thousand years.
The statement "But I am not a one trick pony as are my detractors. I also see the lower walk...the meek...inheriting the earth...finding a place among the saved righteous nations in the next age. And the saints (the elite) will rule over them" is not a direct quote from the Bible. However, it does contain elements that align with biblical teachings.
The Meek Inheriting the Earth: The concept of the meek inheriting the earth is found in Matthew 5:5, where Jesus says, "Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth."
Saints Ruling with Christ: The idea of saints ruling with Christ is supported by passages such as Revelation 20:4-6, which describes believers reigning with Christ for a thousand years.
While your statement is not verbatim from Scripture, it reflects biblical themes of the meek inheriting the earth and saints ruling with Christ in the age to come.
The Meek Inheriting the Earth: This concept is found in Matthew 5:5, where Jesus says, "Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth."
Cain and Abel: The reference to Cain and Abel pertains to their offerings to God in Genesis 4. Abel's offering was accepted because it was given in faith and obedience, while Cain's was not.
According to Genesis 4:4-5, God accepted Abel's offering but did not accept Cain's offering. The Bible does not give a specific reason for this, but Hebrews 11:4 says that Abel offered his sacrifice in faith, which made it more acceptable to God. In contrast, Cain did not offer his sacrifice in faith, and his heart attitude was not right. God looks at the heart, and there was something in Cain's motivation and heart attitude that made his offering unacceptable to God. Cain grew jealous of Abel, and he selfishly nursed his wounded pride. Rather than repent at God's rebuke, Cain became angry, and later, in the field, he killed Abel and brought judgment upon himself (Genesis 4:8).
Here is a breakdown of some of the Hebrew words and their meanings in this passage:
Offering - The Hebrew word used for "offering" is "minchah," which refers to a gift or tribute offered to God as an act of worship or devotion.
Fat Portions - The Hebrew phrase used for "fat portions" is "cheleb min ha-bakar," which refers to the best and choicest parts of the firstborn of the flock.
Looked with Favor - The Hebrew phrase used for "looked with favor" is "sha'ah," which means to gaze upon with pleasure or delight.
Did Not Look with Favor - The Hebrew phrase used for "did not look with favor" is "lo sha'ah," which means to not gaze upon with pleasure or delight.
Angry - The Hebrew word used for "angry" is "charah," which means to burn with anger or become hot with fury.
Downcast - The Hebrew word used for "downcast" is "sarah," which means to be dejected or sad.
By examining the Hebrew words used in this passage, we can gain a deeper understanding of the context and meaning of the text. In this case, the use of "minchah" and "cheleb min ha-bakar" emphasizes the quality and value of Abel's offering, while the use of "sha'ah" and "lo sha'ah" highlights God's pleasure or displeasure with the offerings. The use of "charah" and "sarah" reveals Cain's emotional response to God's rejection of his offering.
Do you offer "strange fire?"
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