Pressing into the Kingdom

[APAK]

The high calling is into the perfection of Christ. You can call that elitist...as in you need faith.

But I am not a one trick pony as are my detractors. I also see the lower walk...the meek...inheriting the earth...finding a place among the saved righteous nations in the next age. And the saints (the elite) will rule over them.

So there is a salvation from sin NOW...and a future inheritance among the faithful who endure in righteousness till the end.


You are missing what salvation is. You are basing this on a religious qualification...and not a salvation from sin by the grace of God.

You are not seeing how Paul was seeking to "win" Christ. This is SO little understood that people read the same things over and over without even a glimmer of truth dawning on them.

Why would Paul who was doing miracles was still trying to win Christ? Are there ANY honest seekers here?




You are not understanding holiness. ...or righteousness. So its easy to see them all as the same. It's the same with quantum physics...do you see a difference between that and string theory? Or does it all seem the same to you?




Most believers will never know the higher walk....that's why the stubborn ones will complain about it. But a truly righteous person doesn't think they know everything...so they remain humble. God saves the guests as well as the Bride. The nations are to be filled with the righteous...of any and all religious affiliations. Only the saints rule with Christ over the nations.

That is the test of the lower walk...to esteem others as higher than themselves. An example of this is with Cain and Abel. Was Abel not approved by God? Not so Cain. So instead of trying harder or changing his ways, Cain complained...as many many do.

So then you, to be righteous, need to stop acting like Cain...and more like Abel.

If you get it right won't God also accept you?

Ok Epi, I see you are not really interested in what I have to say and offer to you. Instead you now wanting to fight with me, by misconstruing my words. adding in ideas not mine or considered, in a desperate attempt to defend yourself and your doctrine. Now is that anyway to discuss your personal doctrine. maturely?

Resorting to clearly outlandish ideas that are yours, and yours alone, not mine, concerning my own words. This does not bother me as it only reflected upon you of course.

Ex1...you said"
So then you, to be righteous, need to stop acting like Cain...and more like Abel.

Do you know what you are truly saying here? I think not. I can explain WHY you have to resort to this lower level of walk...

Ex2. You accuse me of knowing salvation as only a religious qualification only, without knowing your qualification or basis for saying it. How elitist of you.

I have not even begun to speak of sin and the grace of God relationship for salvation yet, as the subject has not come to even warrant a discussion of it.

Do you really want me to? If yes, I will then compare what you consider grace for salvation and mine. You may not like what you read...

And lastly, most of your response is a frantic reaction to my post that exited as gabbage...nonsense. And I have no time to spend on each statement. If you really want me to, then I will do it for you. And you won't like it either.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

 

[APAK]

The idea that the meek will inherit the earth comes from Jesus' Sermon on the Mount in Matthew 5:5, where He says, "Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth." This statement emphasizes the importance of humility and gentleness in the Christian life, and the promise of inheriting the earth is a future hope for believers.
The concept of the saints ruling with Christ is also found in the Bible. In 2 Timothy 2:12, Paul writes, "If we endure, we will also reign with him." Similarly, in Revelation 20:4-6, John sees thrones and people sitting on them, and he says that they will reign with Christ for a thousand years.


The statement "But I am not a one trick pony as are my detractors. I also see the lower walk...the meek...inheriting the earth...finding a place among the saved righteous nations in the next age. And the saints (the elite) will rule over them" is not a direct quote from the Bible. However, it does contain elements that align with biblical teachings.

The Meek Inheriting the Earth: The concept of the meek inheriting the earth is found in Matthew 5:5, where Jesus says, "Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth."

Saints Ruling with Christ: The idea of saints ruling with Christ is supported by passages such as Revelation 20:4-6, which describes believers reigning with Christ for a thousand years.

While your statement is not verbatim from Scripture, it reflects biblical themes of the meek inheriting the earth and saints ruling with Christ in the age to come.


The Meek Inheriting the Earth: This concept is found in Matthew 5:5, where Jesus says, "Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth."

Cain and Abel: The reference to Cain and Abel pertains to their offerings to God in Genesis 4. Abel's offering was accepted because it was given in faith and obedience, while Cain's was not.

According to Genesis 4:4-5, God accepted Abel's offering but did not accept Cain's offering. The Bible does not give a specific reason for this, but Hebrews 11:4 says that Abel offered his sacrifice in faith, which made it more acceptable to God. In contrast, Cain did not offer his sacrifice in faith, and his heart attitude was not right. God looks at the heart, and there was something in Cain's motivation and heart attitude that made his offering unacceptable to God. Cain grew jealous of Abel, and he selfishly nursed his wounded pride. Rather than repent at God's rebuke, Cain became angry, and later, in the field, he killed Abel and brought judgment upon himself (Genesis 4:8).

Here is a breakdown of some of the Hebrew words and their meanings in this passage:
Offering - The Hebrew word used for "offering" is "minchah," which refers to a gift or tribute offered to God as an act of worship or devotion.
Fat Portions - The Hebrew phrase used for "fat portions" is "cheleb min ha-bakar," which refers to the best and choicest parts of the firstborn of the flock.
Looked with Favor - The Hebrew phrase used for "looked with favor" is "sha'ah," which means to gaze upon with pleasure or delight.
Did Not Look with Favor - The Hebrew phrase used for "did not look with favor" is "lo sha'ah," which means to not gaze upon with pleasure or delight.
Angry - The Hebrew word used for "angry" is "charah," which means to burn with anger or become hot with fury.
Downcast - The Hebrew word used for "downcast" is "sarah," which means to be dejected or sad.

By examining the Hebrew words used in this passage, we can gain a deeper understanding of the context and meaning of the text. In this case, the use of "minchah" and "cheleb min ha-bakar" emphasizes the quality and value of Abel's offering, while the use of "sha'ah" and "lo sha'ah" highlights God's pleasure or displeasure with the offerings. The use of "charah" and "sarah" reveals Cain's emotional response to God's rejection of his offering.

Do you offer "strange fire?"

I agree with the majority of your post Johann. Good review and with scripture...

 

[Episkopos]

Ok Epi, I see you are not really interested in what I have to say and offer to you. Instead you now wanting to fight with me, by misconstruing my words. adding in ideas not mine or considered, in a desperate attempt to defend yourself and your doctrine. Now is that anyway to discuss your personal doctrine. maturely?

Resorting to clearly outlandish ideas that are yours, and yours alone, not mine, concerning my own words. This does not bother me as it only reflected upon you of course.

Ex1...you said"
So then you, to be righteous, need to stop acting like Cain...and more like Abel.

Do you know what you are truly saying here? I think not. I can explain WHY you have to resort to this lower level of walk...

Ex2. You accuse me of knowing salvation as only a religious qualification only, without knowing your qualification or basis for saying it. How elitist of you.

I have not even begun to speak of sin and the grace of God relationship for salvation yet, as the subject has not come to even warrant a discussion of it.

Do you really want me to? If yes, I will then compare what you consider grace for salvation and mine. You may not like what you read...

And lastly, most of your response is a frantic reaction to my post that exited as gabbage...nonsense. And I have no time to spend on each statement. If you really want me to, then I will do it for you. And you won't like it either.

Long story short...you don't believe it's possible to press into the kingdom realm. Don't lose sight of your motivation.

 

[Episkopos]

I agree with the majority of your post Johann. Good review and with scripture...

Obscurity has many adherents. Easier to hide that way. Bottom line...stay away from the light of truth and the challenge of the high calling in Christ.

I'd rather trust in the Lord.

 

[Johann]

I agree with the majority of your post Johann. Good review and with scripture...

Pleasure brother
J.

 

[Johann]

Long story short...you don't believe it's possible to press into the kingdom realm. Don't lose sight of your motivation

There are different "levels" of maturity INTO Christ-

The concept of "pressing into the kingdom of God" is a recurring theme throughout the Bible, and it is supported by numerous passages that emphasize the importance of seeking God's rule and righteousness.

Here are some examples:

Matthew 6:33: "But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well." This verse highlights the importance of prioritizing God's kingdom and righteousness above all else, emphasizing that God will provide for our needs when we seek Him first.

Luke 9:62: "Jesus replied, 'No one who puts a hand to the plow and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God.'" This verse emphasizes the need for a single-minded focus on God's kingdom, warning against distractions or hindrances that may impede our spiritual progress.

Philippians 3:12-14: "Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus." This passage emphasizes the need for a continuous effort in pursuing God's kingdom, highlighting the importance of perseverance, focus, and a willingness to let go of past failures or distractions.

Hebrews 12:1-2: "Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us, fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith." This passage encourages believers to press into the kingdom of God with perseverance, endurance, and a focus on Jesus as the ultimate example and source of strength.

Revelation 3:20: "Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me." This verse highlights the importance of actively seeking God's presence and responding to His invitation to enter into a deeper relationship with Him.

These passages, among many others, emphasize the importance of pressing into the kingdom of God with intentionality, focus, perseverance, and a willingness to let go of distractions or hindrances that may impede our spiritual progress.

You want to go deeper?
J.

 

[Episkopos]

There are different "levels" of maturity INTO Christ-

No. One is either in Christ or not. This is a holiness and perfection thing. Only those who walk IN Christ know the higher walk. To others this is foolishness...since the only power these have known is the flesh.

There are different levels of maturity IN Christ. But there is no maturity possible IN Christ unless one is first translated to be where He is...INTO Christ.

The concept of "pressing into the kingdom of God" is a recurring theme throughout the Bible, and it is supported by numerous passages that emphasize the importance of seeking God's rule and righteousness.

Here are some examples:

Matthew 6:33: "But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well." This verse highlights the importance of prioritizing God's kingdom and righteousness above all else, emphasizing that God will provide for our needs when we seek Him first.

Luke 9:62: "Jesus replied, 'No one who puts a hand to the plow and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God.'" This verse emphasizes the need for a single-minded focus on God's kingdom, warning against distractions or hindrances that may impede our spiritual progress.

Philippians 3:12-14: "Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus." This passage emphasizes the need for a continuous effort in pursuing God's kingdom, highlighting the importance of perseverance, focus, and a willingness to let go of past failures or distractions.

Hebrews 12:1-2: "Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us, fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith." This passage encourages believers to press into the kingdom of God with perseverance, endurance, and a focus on Jesus as the ultimate example and source of strength.

Revelation 3:20: "Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me." This verse highlights the importance of actively seeking God's presence and responding to His invitation to enter into a deeper relationship with Him.

These passages, among many others, emphasize the importance of pressing into the kingdom of God with intentionality, focus, perseverance, and a willingness to let go of distractions or hindrances that may impede our spiritual progress.

You want to go deeper?
J.

Amen. What holds people back is the small progress that is made by a personal and persistent seeking of the Lord. God's sample of grace encouragement is not meant to take away from the full measure of grace available. It is meant as encouragement. But the devil and the flesh want to replace the full measure with more free stuff...and then justify a person in that insufficient state (I am now rich and in need of nothing) ...thus frustrating grace.

We get the dew of the morning by seeking God early. I thrive on that grace.

But there is also the rain that comes without stop...that overfills us with His love, life and power. In Him is no sin.

 

[O'Darby]

While a Buddhist may try to get along with whatever human means are at hand...not so the Christian disciple. He realizes that he is poor and needy...since the limitations of the flesh have come to the fore...realizing that the flesh cannot present itself to God, or be pleasing to Him.

Instead we need to BUY eye salve so that we might see...and robes of righteousness to cover our nakedness. Of course those who are spoiled in Ephraim will not lift a finger toward any seeking of God or paying any price...and throw beer cans at you for preaching the truth as they luxuriate in their sunbathing in the afterglow of their presumed justification for some gift or other given to them as a sample of God's goodness.

Rather many modern ego religious types would deny that they think what they have is sufficient...and they lie about it when confronted.

These dishonest types will say that a new birth (if it even happened) is enough to declare themselves as fit for heaven. And this kind of iniquity is promoted and published as if it was the gospel itself.

I don't believe a Christian disciple is poor and needy at all, for precisely the reasons stated in the post of mine you quoted. It's the failure to recognize and accept that he ISN'T poor and needy that's the problem. Why would someone with all the riches of God's creation and the fullness of the Holy Spirit available to him consider himself poor and needy? I think it's our human inability to fully accept what God offers that is the problem, which is why we remain at least partly stuck in worldly cares and pursuits. Our failure is reason for humility, it seems to me, but not for viewing ourselves as poor and needy in any respect

I honestly am not following at all whatever point you're making.

 

[Episkopos]

I don't believe a Christian disciple is poor and needy at all, for precisely the reasons stated in the post of mine you quoted. It's the failure to recognize and accept that he ISN'T poor and needy that's the problem. Why would someone with all the riches of God's creation and the fullness of the Holy Spirit available to him consider himself poor and needy? I think it's our human inability to fully accept what God offers that is the problem, which is why we remain at least partly stuck in worldly cares and pursuits. Our failure is reason for humility, it seems to me, but not for viewing ourselves as poor and needy in any respect

I honestly am not following at all whatever point you're making.

There are those who believe that Christ is already in all men...they just need to recognize that.

It would be akin to going to a poor country and declaring all to be rich even in their poverty...they just don't realize they are rich...even as they die of hunger and malnutrition.

I prefer reality to fiction.

The problem of self is that we try to be self-sufficient...from the time we are two years old. We learn to say "no". We learn to filter the world through our own ideas.

And being from rich Western countries we can do as we please.

Not so in eternity.

Eternally we are lost and in darkness until we are walking in the resurrection power of Christ. Whoever enters INTO Him walks in His heavenly light. There is NO darkness there. Many will confuse a future inheritance for a present salvation. But salvation is from sin...from the power of the flesh. And INTO the power of the life to come. In holiness. Without any spot or wrinkle of sin.

So then of ourselves, we are lost, weak, and wander in darkness. In Christ we are given His life, and light to do things that are impossible for the flesh even to conceive of. Walking in the light as He is in the light...doing eternal things that count for future glory.

The irony is that so many will spend eternity wandering in outer darkness..because they claimed to already be walking in the light. So God will let them continue the way they presently are in eternity. God is just and faithful.

 

[Johann]

No. One is either in Christ or not. This is a holiness and perfection thing. Only those who walk IN Christ know the higher walk. To others this is foolishness...since the only power these have known is the flesh.

There are different levels of maturity IN Christ. But there is no maturity possible IN Christ unless one is first translated to be where He is...INTO Christ.

Amen. What holds people back is the small progress that is made by a personal and persistent seeking of the Lord. God's sample of grace encouragement is not meant to take away from the full measure of grace available. It is meant as encouragement. But the devil and the flesh want to replace the full measure with more free stuff...and then justify a person in that insufficient state (I am now rich and in need of nothing) ...thus frustrating grace.

We get the dew of the morning by seeking God early. I thrive on that grace.

But there is also the rain that comes without stop...that overfills us with His love, life and power. In Him is no sin.

What I meant to say IN Christ-there are babes and some in different stages of their growth and maturity IN Christ-

Ephesians 2:8-9: "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast." This passage emphasizes that salvation is a free gift of God's grace, not something that can be earned through good works or merit.
--
1 Corinthians 3:11-15: "For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. --If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames." This passage highlights the idea that believers will be rewarded for their works, but those works must be built on the foundation of Christ and done with the right motives and attitudes.

2 Corinthians 5:10: "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad." This verse emphasizes that believers will be held accountable for their actions and will receive rewards or consequences based on their deeds.

Revelation 22:12: "Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done." This verse emphasizes that Jesus will reward believers according to their deeds, highlighting the importance of living a life that honors God and seeks to do His will.

So your statement- "God's sample of grace encouragement is not meant to take away from the full measure of grace available" is not directly supported by these passages, they do emphasize the importance of living a life that honors God and seeks to do His will, with the understanding that believers will be rewarded for their works.

Amen?
J.

 

[Johann]

There are those who believe that Christ is already in all men...they just need to recognize that.

Re your assertion-

"There are those who believe that Christ is already in all men...they just need to recognize that"-- is not entirely accurate according to biblical teaching.

While it is true that God's presence is available to all people, the Bible teaches that Christ is not already in all men in the sense that all people are automatically saved or indwelt by the Holy Spirit.

Here are some relevant scripture references:

John 1:12-13: "Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God." This passage emphasizes that becoming a child of God requires a personal decision to receive Christ through faith.

Romans 3:23: "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." This verse highlights the universal need for salvation and the fact that all people are born into sin.

Romans 10:9-10: "If you declare with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved." This passage emphasizes the importance of confessing Christ as Lord and believing in His resurrection for salvation.

Ephesians 2:8-9: "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast." This verse emphasizes that salvation is a free gift of God's grace, received through faith.

I can only conclude, while God's presence is available to all people, the Bible teaches that salvation and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit require a personal decision to receive Christ through faith. Christ is not already in all men in the sense that all people are automatically saved or indwelt by the Holy Spirit.

J.

 

[Episkopos]

What I meant to say IN Christ-there are babes and some in different stages of their growth and maturity IN Christ-

Corporately yes. And God does allow babes into the higher walk. It is only as these are conditioned in God's higher ways that the maturing process can begin. And quite quickly these babes will soon offend holiness (all being so new) and be sent back down for more training. But at least these babes now know what the higher walk looks like.

It's like a baseball team that has a AAA farm team from which they can pick prospects for the big league.

Many players get called up but have to be sent back down for further conditioning. That is God's way with the saint in training.


Many junior leaguers NEVER get the chance to play even one game in the biggies. Or else, they will play a game or two and finish their careers in the minors.

Ephesians 2:8-9: "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast." This passage emphasizes that salvation is a free gift of God's grace, not something that can be earned through good works or merit.
--
1 Corinthians 3:11-15: "For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. --If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames." This passage highlights the idea that believers will be rewarded for their works, but those works must be built on the foundation of Christ and done with the right motives and attitudes.

2 Corinthians 5:10: "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad." This verse emphasizes that believers will be held accountable for their actions and will receive rewards or consequences based on their deeds.

Revelation 22:12: "Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done." This verse emphasizes that Jesus will reward believers according to their deeds, highlighting the importance of living a life that honors God and seeks to do His will.

So your statement- "God's sample of grace encouragement is not meant to take away from the full measure of grace available" is not directly supported by these passages, they do emphasize the importance of living a life that honors God and seeks to do His will, with the understanding that believers will be rewarded for their works.

Amen?
J.

You have to compare apples with apples, so to speak.

No one deserves mercy or grace. But those who receive grace will be judged HARDER than those who don't. To whom much is given...

When a player is sent up to the big leagues...is he judged easier for it? Or harder?

Most modern believers only see Jesus for what He can do for them...most have NO RESPECT for His words...and even less for His warnings.

We are counseled by Jesus on many occasions (look them up) that we need to BUY into the higher walk. We need to lose all to follow Him...and to go to the cross in order to be raised into a new life with Him.

The sample is free.

The full product can only come in when there is room (an empty vessel) to put it into. Think old wineskin trying to take in new wine.

 

[O'Darby]

There are those who believe that Christ is already in all men...they just need to recognize that.

It would be akin to going to a poor country and declaring all to be rich even in their poverty...they just don't realize they are rich...even as they die of hunger and malnutrition.

I prefer reality to fiction.

But we aren't talking about all men. We're talking about Christian disciples. My point is that a Christian disciple has no reason to view himeslf as poor and needy because the riches of God's creation and the fulness of the Holy Spirit are available to him. To the extent he doesn't bask in these it's because he lacks perfect faith and trust - which is reason for humility but not, it seems to me, for viewing himself as poor and needy. "Not viewing myself as poor and needy" doesn't by any means equate to self-satisfaction or spiritual arrogance.

The problem of self is that we try to be self-sufficient...from the time we are two years old. We learn to say "no". We learn to filter the world through our own ideas.

And being from rich Western countries we can do as we please.

Not so in eternity.

Eternally we are lost and in darkness until we are walking in the resurrection power of Christ. Whoever enters INTO Him walks in His heavenly light. There is NO darkness there. Many will confuse a future inheritance for a present salvation. But salvation is from sin...from the power of the flesh. And INTO the power of the life to come. In holiness. Without any spot or wrinkle of sin.

So then of ourselves, we are lost, weak, and wander in darkness. In Christ we are given His life, and light to do things that are impossible for the flesh even to conceive of. Walking in the light as He is in the light...doing eternal things that count for future glory.

The irony is that so many will spend eternity wandering in outer darkness..because they claimed to already be walking in the light. So God will let them continue the way they presently are in eternity. God is just and faithful.

But again, we're talking about Christian disciples. A Christian disciple does not try to be self-sufficient. A Christian disciple does not wander in outer darkness. A Christian disciple should be walking in the light, at least to whatever extent he allows the light to shine in and through him. Sure, some disciples will more fully "enter into" God through greater faith, trust and yielding, but I don't see a reason for any disciple to view himself as poor and needy in God's creation.

I don't think we're in violent disagreement here.

 

[Johann]

No one deserves mercy or grace. But those who receive grace will be judged HARDER than those who don't. To whom much is given...

May I suggest this is not correct?

Your "No one deserves mercy or grace. But those who receive grace will be judged HARDER than those who don't" is not accurately supported by biblical texts.

The Bible teaches that everyone stands in need of God's mercy and grace, and those who receive it are indeed blessed. However, YOUR statement misinterprets the nature of God's judgement and the role of grace in the lives of believers.

Here are some relevant scripture references:

Psalm 51:5: "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me." This verse highlights the universality of sin and the need for forgiveness and redemption.

Romans 3:23: "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." This verse reinforces the universal need for salvation and the fact that all people are born into sin.

Romans 6:23: "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." This verse emphasizes the severity of sin and the need for divine intervention to overcome it.

Ephesians 2:8-9: "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast." This verse emphasizes that salvation is a free gift of God's grace, received through faith.

Now, let's examine the second half of the statement: "To whom much is given, much required." This phrase is derived from Luke 12:48, which states, "From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked." This verse speaks of stewardship and the responsibility that accompanies receiving blessings from God. Believers who receive God's grace are expected to live holy lives and bear fruit worthy of repentance (Matthew 3:8).

However, this does not imply that those who receive grace will be judged harsher than those who don't.

On the contrary, believers who receive grace are promised eternal life and fellowship with God (John 3:16).
So-to conclude-, the statement "No one deserves mercy or grace. But those who receive grace will be judged HARDER than those who don't" is not supported by biblical texts. The Bible teaches that all people deserve God's wrath and judgement due to sin, but those who receive God's grace are blessed and expected to live holy lives. Those who reject God's grace will still be judged, but not necessarily harsher than those who receive it.

Amen?
J.

 

[Episkopos]

May I suggest this is not correct?

Your "No one deserves mercy or grace. But those who receive grace will be judged HARDER than those who don't" is not accurately supported by biblical texts.

Have you not read the bible on the subject? OK you were taught by hired preachers. Of course they are going to make things seem easy and safe. Their salaries depend on it.

"He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?" Heb 10:28, 29

If we slack on the law...we die. If we slack on grace...it's worse...not easier.

Imagine sinning under the New Covenant and then claiming it's fine because of the blood of Christ?

The Bible teaches that everyone stands in need of God's mercy and grace, and those who receive it are indeed blessed. However, YOUR statement misinterprets the nature of God's judgement and the role of grace in the lives of believers.

Here are some relevant scripture references:

Psalm 51:5: "Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me." This verse highlights the universality of sin and the need for forgiveness and redemption.

Romans 3:23: "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." This verse reinforces the universal need for salvation and the fact that all people are born into sin.

Romans 6:23: "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." This verse emphasizes the severity of sin and the need for divine intervention to overcome it.

Ephesians 2:8-9: "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast." This verse emphasizes that salvation is a free gift of God's grace, received through faith.

Now, let's examine the second half of the statement: "To whom much is given, much required." This phrase is derived from Luke 12:48, which states, "From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked." This verse speaks of stewardship and the responsibility that accompanies receiving blessings from God. Believers who receive God's grace are expected to live holy lives and bear fruit worthy of repentance (Matthew 3:8).

However, this does not imply that those who receive grace will be judged harsher than those who don't.

On the contrary, believers who receive grace are promised eternal life and fellowship with God (John 3:16).
So-to conclude-, the statement "No one deserves mercy or grace. But those who receive grace will be judged HARDER than those who don't" is not supported by biblical texts. The Bible teaches that all people deserve God's wrath and judgement due to sin, but those who receive God's grace are blessed and expected to live holy lives. Those who reject God's grace will still be judged, but not necessarily harsher than those who receive it.

Amen?
J.

In a great house are both vessels of honour AND dishonour. Many will be rejected and cast into outer darkness...there will be weeping and anger. Many will wander in darkness naked and in a constant state of shame. And no pew-filler is going to warn you of that. For that you will have to read the bible.

 

[URwrongAgain]

Why aren't more people interested in the pressing into the kingdom? How can people miss the zeal of Paul to do that very thing? How can people miss the point of the gospel?

The reason being is because, no one can press their way into the Kingdom of God.
The 1 and only way in is to be born into it.
That takes an act of God, not an act of man.

 

[Episkopos]

How many Christians tell Jews that if they fail at one part of the law they are guilty of breaking the whole law. Easy peasy judgment. But how many realize that the sword cuts both ways. How many claim that failure at one part of grace...not coming into the full measure of grace makes one responsible for treading the blood of Jesus underfoot?

Not many I would think.

 

[Episkopos]

The reason being is because, no one can press their way into the Kingdom of God.
The 1 and only way in is to be born into it.
That takes an act of God, not an act of man.

You may be half right. Was Paul born again when He wrote the epistles? Why was he trying to win Christ?

Maybe you are more advanced in understanding than he was...or probably not.

 

[Johann]

"He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?" Heb 10:28, 29

Despising Moses' Law: The author refers to the Old Testament law given through Moses, highlighting that those who violated it faced severe consequences, including death without mercy if convicted by two or three witnesses (Deuteronomy 17:6).

Comparison with Christ's Sacrifice: The author then contrasts the severity of punishment under the Mosaic Law with the even greater punishment for those who reject Jesus Christ. The phrase "how much sorer punishment" emphasizes the heightened accountability for those who reject Christ's sacrifice.

Consequences of Rejecting Christ: The passage describes the grave offense of rejecting Jesus Christ and His atoning sacrifice. It mentions several actions:

"Trodden under foot the Son of God": This imagery conveys a deliberate act of disrespect and rejection towards Jesus, treating His sacrifice as insignificant.

"Counted the blood of the covenant... an unholy thing": This refers to treating Christ's blood, which sanctifies believers and establishes a new covenant, as common or worthless.

"Done despite unto the Spirit of grace": This highlights an intentional insult or affront to the Holy Spirit, who brings God's grace and conviction to hearts.

Implications: The passage underscores the seriousness of rejecting Christ and His sacrifice, equating it with a willful disregard for God's grace, sanctification, and redemption. It warns against apostasy and emphasizes the eternal consequences of turning away from the truth.

In conclusion-, Hebrews 10:28-29 serves as a sobering reminder of the severe judgment awaiting those who reject Jesus Christ and treat His sacrifice with contempt. It highlights the importance of honoring Christ's atonement, acknowledging His sanctifying blood, and respecting the work of the Holy Spirit in bringing salvation and grace to humanity.

Imagine sinning under the New Covenant and then claiming it's fine because of the blood of Christ?

As to the above-

Acknowledgment of Grace:
Romans 6:1-2: "What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?"

Ephesians 2:8-9: "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast."

Call to Holiness:
1 Peter 1:15-16: "But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; for it is written: 'Be holy, because I am holy.'"

Hebrews 12:14: "Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord."

Warning Against Misusing Grace:
Romans 6:15: "What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means!"

Jude 1:4: "For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord."

Encouragement for Repentance:
Acts 3:19: "Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord."

1 John 1:9: "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness."

Epi- one can convey the importance of honoring God's grace while also upholding a life of holiness and repentance under the New Covenant established through the blood of Christ. It emphasizes the transformative power of grace while warning against using it as an excuse for continued sinfulness.

I don't think we are in disagreement per se-and yes. I study the Scriptures daily.
J.