Pretrib fallacies

[William Barton]

But Revelation is a number of recaps all finishing with the end of the world and the destruction of the wicked. Revelation 14:14-20 is another camera view of the one final future coming of Christ.

Jesus reaps so that believers do not suffer the bowl judgments (Revelation 16:1-21).

The end of the world comes after the millennial reign of of Jesus (Revelation chapters 21, 22). Sin corrupts the sinner and *everything* associated with him, so this entire universe will be disposed and replaced (like an old home being razed and rebuilt), NEW heavens and NEW earth (Revelation chapters 21, 22).

 

[WPM]

Jesus reaps so that believers do not suffer the bowl judgments (Revelation 16:1-21).

The end of the world comes after the millennial reign of of Jesus (Revelation chapter 21, 22). Sin corrupts the sinner and *everything* associated with him, so this entire universe will be disposed and replaced (like an old home being razed and rebuilt). NEW heavens and NEW earth (Revelation chapters 21, 22).

This is recaps. You have nothing else in God's Book that show a tribulation after the rapture - nothing. Pretrib is a non-corroborated opinion.

 

[William Barton]

But Revelation is a number of recaps all finishing with the end of the world and the destruction of the wicked. Revelation 14:14-20 is another camera view of the one final future coming of Christ.

Revelation 14:20 indicates that the rapture removes believers before the bowl judgments. The rapture is seen here:

"For the Lord himself will descend from heaven...and the dead in Christ will rise first...we will be caught up together with them..." (1Thessalonians 4:13-18).

But Revelation is a number of recaps all finishing with the end of the world and the destruction of the wicked. Revelation 14:14-20 is another camera view of the one final future coming of Christ.

Revelation 14:14 is Jesus descended to a cloud to rapture believers to heaven.

 

[WPM]

Revelation 14:20 indicates that the rapture removes believers before the bowl judgments. The rapture is seen here:

"For the Lord himself will descend from heaven...and the dead in Christ will rise first...we will be caught up together with them..." (1Thessalonians 4:13-18).

Revelation 14:14 is Jesus descended to a cloud to rapture believers to heaven.

Please show where it says they go to heaven there in either of those?
Please show a trib following the rapture in 1Thessalonians 4:13-18?

 

[GeneZ]

Revelation 14:14 is Jesus descended to a cloud to rapture believers to heaven.

In Genesis 5:24, we see Enoch was translated to heaven from the earth and "was no more to be found.

Was that the Rapture?

Likewise... Not everyone removed from the earth and taken above is about the Rapture.

Revelation 14:14 is specifically about what will take place on earth during the Tribulation, after the Church will be removed from earth in the Rapture of the Bride of Christ.

 

[WPM]

In Genesis 5:24, we see Enoch was translated to heaven from the earth and "was no more to be found.

Was that the Rapture?

Likewise... Not everyone removed from the earth and taken above is about the Rapture.

Revelation 14:14 is specifically about what will take place on earth during the Tribulation, after the Church will be removed from earth in the Rapture of the Bride of Christ.

Where is your rapture in Revelation?

 

[William Barton]

Are angels physical and visible?

Angels look like men (Daniel 10:18).

 

[William Barton]

In Genesis 5:24, we see Enoch was translated to heaven from the earth and "was no more to be found.

Was that the Rapture?

Likewise... Not everyone removed from the earth and taken above is about the Rapture.

Revelation 14:14 is specifically about what will take place on earth during the Tribulation, after the Church will be removed from earth in the Rapture of the Bride of Christ.

"Rapture" = "catching up."

Genesis 5:24 is a rapture, since Enoch was "caught up" to heaven.
The apostle Paul was caught up to heaven too (2Corinthians 12:1-4).

 

[David in NJ]

In Genesis 5:24, we see Enoch was translated to heaven from the earth and "was no more to be found.

Was that the Rapture?

GeneZ, that was not the rapture of the church.

Noah and family represents the 'church/saints/elect'

Likewise... Not everyone removed from the earth and taken above is about the Rapture.

Where did you get this from?

Revelation 14:14 is specifically about what will take place on earth during the Tribulation,

Revelation 14:6-16 is the Church on earth during the Tribulation

after the Church will be removed from earth in the Rapture of the Bride of Christ.

Only when CHRIST Returns/2nd Coming are the deceased Saints resurrected and remaining alive Saints are raptured.
Gospel & 1 Thess 4:13-18 & 1 Cor ch15

 

[GeneZ]

GeneZ, that was not the rapture of the church.

Noah and family represents the 'church/saints/elect'


Where did you get this from?



Revelation 14:6-16 is the Church on earth during the Tribulation


Only when CHRIST Returns/2nd Coming are the deceased Saints resurrected and remaining alive Saints are raptured.
Gospel & 1 Thess 4:13-18 & 1 Cor ch15

I suppose one can say there are raptures.

And there is THE Rapture.

 

[David in NJ]

I suppose one can say there are raptures.

And there is THE Rapture.

Good Morning GeneZ

Genesis is the KEY

The OT prophets are the SEE

There are only THREE raptures Spoken of in the Scriptures
#1 - Enoch
#2 - Elijah
#3 - 2 Coming/ 1 Thess 4:13-18

 

[GeneZ]

Good Morning GeneZ

Genesis is the KEY

The OT prophets are the SEE

There are only THREE raptures Spoken of in the Scriptures
#1 - Enoch
#2 - Elijah
#3 - 2 Coming/ 1 Thess 4:13-18

Another aspect of how God removes people and is often misunderstood is the following.

For there will also be a "taking away" of unbelievers just before the Millennium begins!

The Millennium will begin with only believers on the earth!

Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. ​

Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.​

​

“Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come.​

​

Matthew 24:40-42​

 

[William Barton]

In Genesis 5:24, we see Enoch was translated to heaven from the earth and "was no more to be found.

Was that the Rapture?

Likewise... Not everyone removed from the earth and taken above is about the Rapture.

Revelation 14:14 is specifically about what will take place on earth during the Tribulation, after the Church will be removed from earth in the Rapture of the Bride of Christ.

Genez inquired:
<Enoch was translated to heaven...Was that the rapture>

"Rapture" stems from Latin rapere = "to catch up" (Oxford Latin Dictionary). In that sense Enoch, Elijah, Apostle Paul were all caught up / raptured.

The specific catching-up here is the one "Pre-Tribulation" rapture by Jesus himself, indicating the catching up in Revelation 14:14.

 

[GeneZ]

Genez inquired:
<Enoch was translated to heaven...Was that the rapture>

"Rapture" stems from Latin rapere = "to catch up" (Oxford Latin Dictionary). In that sense Enoch, Elijah, Apostle Paul were all caught up / raptured.

The specific catching-up here is the one "Pre-Tribulation" rapture by Jesus himself, indicating the catching up in Revelation 14:14.

The difference is like this....

There being: "a rapture" vs "the Rapture."

Like, King of kings....

We have had depressions in the economy before.
And, then. There was the great depression referring to a special event in time.

When we say "the Rapture" it refers to a specific event that will take place just before "the" Tribulation begins.

 

[William Barton]

Good Morning GeneZ

Genesis is the KEY

The OT prophets are the SEE

There are only THREE raptures Spoken of in the Scriptures
#1 - Enoch
#2 - Elijah
#3 - 2 Coming/ 1 Thess 4:13-18

And the Apostle Paul (2Corinthians 12:2-4)
And Jesus (Acts 1:9)

 

[David in NJ]

And the Apostle Paul (2Corinthians 12:2-4)
And Jesus (Acts 1:9)

These are One and the Same Resurrection/Rapture

How do we know?

JESUS and Paul prophesied of One Resurrection followed by the Rapture

37All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.
38For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
39This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
40And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life;
and I will raise him up at the last day.”

But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
21For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead.
22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.
23But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.