I am a born-again Jew....
And, you are a spiritual Israelite.
Interesting.
Pretrib fallacies
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And, you are a spiritual Israelite.
Interesting.
Regardless of how you classify yourself :-
Gal 3:28, 1 Cor 12:13, Col 3:11, Gal 6:15.
Today you are only saved, justified, HSsealed by believing & trusting in the death burial resurrection of Christ
1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13, Col 2:13
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
I don't know what you're talking about. Are you denying that you are part of the church? You contrast "the Church" with "us". Why? I don't know what the basis is for anything you are saying.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Do you deny being a Christian in the church/body of Christ?
All believers are spiritual Israelites because we've all been made new creations.
Galatians 6:15 Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is the new creation. 16 Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule—to the Israel of God.
Galatians 6:15-16?
Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is the new creation. Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule—to the Israel of God.
That was written to the Israel of God for them to know!
Telling them that there is no longer Jew nor Gentile (circumcision nor uncircumcision)
You keep failing to understand what 'new creation' means.
It means God has made us in Christ into something totally new that never existed before.
Something totally new and unlike anything else that had been created before!
For ONLY the Church is the Bride of Christ.
Because John the Baptist died before the Church age began?
He was not a part of the Church.
He said that he was not the bride but instead a friend of the groom!
The bride belongs to the bridegroom. The friend who attends the bridegroom waits and listens for him,
and is full of joy when he hears the bridegroom’s voice. That joy is mine, and it is now complete. John 3:29
John will be a part of the OT believers resurrection.
Not the church!
Present Scripture that shows a rapture of the Church followed by a trib followed a Pretrib 3rd coming?
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Have you never read it?
Are you being serious here? Do you not know that this is addressed to Christians? Do you not know that Christians are made a new creation in Christ upon being born again? Paul is saying there that circumcision, which is something associated with Jews and uncircumcision, which is something associated with Gentiles, means nothing. This lines up with Paul saying in other places that there is neither Jew nor Gentile when you belong to Christ and that there is no difference between Jew and Gentile when you belong to Christ. Being a Jew or Gentile means nothing in that sense. What counts is being a new creation in Christ and Paul calls those who follow the rule that what counts is being a new creation rather than being circumcised or not (being a Jew or Gentile) "the Israel of God". That means all Christians are part of the spiritual Israel of God. He's not talking about the nation of Israel there. Unbelievers are not made a new creation. Only believers are, including Jews and Gentiles.
Old Testament saints are included in the church as well, though. Read this...
1 Corinthians 10:1 For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers and sisters, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. 2 They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 3 They all ate the same spiritual food 4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.
Everyone who belongs to Christ, which is all believers from all time is the bride of Christ.
He is part of the church. The blood of Christ brought all believers who had previously died into the church.
You are sadly mistaken. Jesus made it clear that all of the dead will be resurrected at the same hour/time.
John 5:28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
Everybody who is saved has believed in the one who is now Jesus Christ.
OT believers believed on pre-Incarnate Jesus Christ - the Lord God of Israel, who later was born as Jesus.
OT believers believed in the pre-incarnate Jesus - the Lord God of Israel, the one designated to be born
of woman to become as a man. (John 1:14)
All saved souls either believed in the one who was later to be revealed as Jesus Christ prior to the Church age.
Or believed in the Church age in Jesus Christ.
John the Baptist believed before the Church age began.
John understood that he was not the Bride of Christ.
But as the friend of the Groom as an OT believer.
He even said is a friend of the Groom.
Not the Bride.
It is important to get these correct.
John the Baptist said...
The bride belongs to the bridegroom. The friend who attends the bridegroom
waits and listens for him, and is full of joy when he hears the bridegroom’s voice.
That joy is mine, and it is now complete. John 3:29
John the Baptist was telling us that he was the Friend of the Groom, not the Bride!
Grace and peace ......
Truth7t7
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Romans 2:28-29KJV
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
You changed to a different topic.
Here is what I said...
Because John the Baptist died before the Church age began?
He was not a part of the Church.
He said that he was not the bride, but instead, a friend of the groom!
The bride belongs to the bridegroom. The friend who attends the bridegroom waits and listens for him,
and is full of joy when he hears the bridegroom’s voice. That joy is mine, and it is now complete. John 3:29
John will be a part of the OT believer's resurrection.
When he died he said he was being as the Friend of the Groom.
Truth7t7
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Your claim that there are "Multiple" future resurrections such as Old Testament Saints and The New Testament Church is 100% "False"
Daniel taught there is "ONE" future resurrection of "ALL" and it takes place at the time of "The End" great tribulation when the final judgement takes place, everyone thats found written in the book of life, both Old and New Testament Believers
Daniel 12:1-2KJV
1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Paul clearly taught that when Jesus returns the resurrection of the dead takes place, (Then Cometh The End) its that simple (The End) not a 1,000 year kingdom on this earth as many "Falsely" claim
1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
The scripture above is in perfect agreement with Jesus being revealed in fire and brimstone as seen below (Then Cometh The End) as all the unsaved wicked are destroyed at the Lord's return
(Destroyed Them All)
Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
The resurrection of "All" is seen below and the wicked are judged to eternal damnation, this is when the "Final Judgement" takes place (The End)
John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Jesus clearly taught that the resurrection of "All" takes place on "The Last Day" this is in perfect agreement with the scripture above
John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
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Truth7t7
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No need to wait and see, post #374 above clearly shows God's word teaches there is only "One" future resurrection of "All", simple and very easy to understand that your wrong
All that showed was that all dead shall be resurrected.
Even the unbelievers who are doomed to hell will be resurrected before the sentence is carried out.
jeffweeder
Well-Known Member
The sentence happens at the same hour on the last day when the Lord comes again to raise us. Jn chap - 5,6 and 12.
See also Matt 25 and 2Thess 1
Even if that were so, theirs will be a different resurrection.
1 Corinthians 15:22-25
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.
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jeffweeder
Well-Known Member
What do you mean IF?
The scriptures I referred to state a particular Hour, a particular day being the last day, and the sentencing of the wicked as being inseparable when Jesus comes again to raise us.
We are raised and glorified while the rest are raised and condemned......when he comes again.
Jn 5
28 Do not be surprised at this; for a time is coming when all those who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29 and they will come out—those who did good things [will come out] to a resurrection of [new] life, but those who did evil things [will come out] to a resurrection of judgment [that is, to be sentenced].
Jn 6
40 For this is My Father’s will and purpose, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him [as Savior] will have eternal life, and I will raise him up [from the dead] on the last day.”
Jn 12
48 Whoever rejects Me and refuses to accept My teachings, has one who judges him; the very word that I spoke will judge and condemn him on the last day.
2Thess 1
9 These people will pay the penalty and endure the punishment of everlasting destruction, banished from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day and to be marveled at among all who believed.
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