Pretrib fallacies

[Truth7t7]

All that showed was that all dead shall be resurrected.
Even the unbelievers who are doomed to hell will be resurrected before the sentence is carried out.

The scripture presented to you shows that at the time of the end, all that are in the graves will be resurrected at the return of Jesus on (The Last Day)

Your claim that Old Testament believers have a different time of resurrection than the New Testament Church is 100% "False"

 

[WPM]

Jesus reaps so that believers do not suffer the bowl judgments (Revelation 16:1-21).

The end of the world comes after the millennial reign of of Jesus (Revelation chapters 21, 22). Sin corrupts the sinner and *everything* associated with him, so this entire universe will be disposed and replaced (like an old home being razed and rebuilt), NEW heavens and NEW earth (Revelation chapters 21, 22).

The second coming brings a close to the day of salvation. Repeated Scripture shows that now is the only day of salvation. After showing us the destruction of this earth, the works that are in it, the heavens, the elements when Jesus comes, and after describing the longsuffering of God in the days of Noah before the destruction of all the wicked, Peter responds to the mockers scoffing at the apparent delay in Christ's return: “the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation” (2 Peter 3:15). See also Romans 2:4 and 2 Timothy 2:10. This shows that salvation is limited to this side of the second coming. A sign of the end is that the Gospel must “be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come" (Matthew 24:14). The second coming brings the curtain down on the great commission. Once the ark door closes it is too late (Matthew 25:10-13, 28:19-20 and Act 3:19-21). At the end of this age (or literally, the consummation of the age), the time of God’s grace will finally be complete.

The age to come has no room for "mortals" (Luke 20:34-36, Romans 8:19-23, 1 Corinthians 15:50-55 and Revelation 21-22) or the unregenerate (Psalm 25:12-13, 37:9-11, 22, 28-36, 34, Proverbs 2:21-22, 10:30, Luke 17:26-30, 1 Corinthians 6:9, 1 Corinthians 15:24, I Thessalonians 5:2-3, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10). One must be qualified to inherit the new earth. They must be worthy to enter that age (Luke 20:35). Only glorified saints can inherit the glorified earth. This would be a strong argument to me that the second coming is “the end.”

Matthew 13:29, 49, 28:20, John 6:39-44, 54, John 11:21-27, John 12:48, Ephesians 1:10 and Revelation 10:5-7 would seem to suggest that time reaches its fullness at the climactic return of Christ. History itself is completed. This would be a strong argument to me that the second coming is “the end.”

Matthew 24:29-30, 35-36, Mark 13:24-26, 31-32, Luke 20:34-36, 21:25-36, Acts 3:19-21, Romans 8:19-23, 1 Corinthians 15:50-55 ,1 Peter 1:3-5 and Revelation 21:1-5 all show that the end of the bondage of corruption occurs when Jesus comes. A far more glorious age will then be ushered in. This would be a strong argument to me that the second coming is “the end.”

1 Corinthians 13:12, Ephesians 4:13 and Revelation 10:5-7 show that the curtain coming down on the mystery of God, thus confirming we are at the end of time and entering into eternity when all will finally be revealed. This would be a strong argument to me that the second coming is “the end.”

Repeated Scripture locates the replacement of the current heavens and earth with the new heavens and earth and incorruption at the second coming. Job 14:12-14, Isaiah 13:9-11, Isaiah 34:1-4, 8, Isaiah 65:17-21, Isaiah 66:22-24, Joel 2:3, Joel 2:10-11, Malachi 4:1-3, Matthew 24:29-30, Matthew 24:35-44, Mark 13:24-26, Luke 21:25-27, Romans 8:18-23, 1 Corinthians 15:23-24, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, 2 Peter 3:10-13, Hebrews 1:10-12, Revelation 6:13-17, Revelation 16:15-20, Revelation 19:11-16 and Revelation 20:11-15 shows us that this occurs at the second coming. This is indeed the end of time, the end of corruption, the end of the wicked, the end of sin, the end of death, the end for the devil. It is the beginning of eternity. It is the beginning of perfection. It is the beginning of incorruption. It is the beginning of a new arrangement.

 

[GeneZ]

The scripture presented to you shows that at the time of the end, all that are in the graves will be resurrected at the return of Jesus on (The Last Day)

Your claim that Old Testament believers have a different time of resurrection than the New Testament Church is 100% "False"

OT saints will not be in the Rapture.

Besides...

For the dead IN Christ shall rise FIRST!!!!!!!

"First" cannot mean a simultaneous time with everyone else.

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, ​

and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and ​

remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. ​

And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17​

.........

 

[Truth7t7]

OT saints will not be in the Rapture.

There won't be a pre-trib rapture as many falsely claim, this false teaching is found no place in scripture

Besides...

For the dead IN Christ shall rise FIRST!!!!!!!

"First" cannot mean a simultaneous time with everyone else.

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, ​

and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and ​

remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. ​

And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17​

.........

The entire event of the resurrection of "All", when mortal becomes immortal takes place within the "Blink Of An Eye", the scripture clearly teaches that within that very quick time frame the dead in Christ are first, simple and easy to understand

1 Corinthians 15:51-52KJV
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

 

[GeneZ]

There won't be a pre-trib rapture as many falsely claim, this false teaching is found no place in scripture

The entire event of the resurrection of "All", when mortal becomes immortal takes place within the "Blink Of An Eye", the scripture clearly teaches that within that very quick time frame the dead in Christ are first, simple and easy to understand

1 Corinthians 15:51-52KJV
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

I believe you see Christians who understand the Rapture to be your intellectual inferior,
naive... and will believe anything they are told.

Is that correct?

 

[Truth7t7]

I believe you see Christians who understand the Rapture to be your intellectual inferior,
naive... and will believe anything they are told.

Is that correct?

Stop being childish in your false accusations, nowhere in the scripture does it show or even hint at a pre-trib rapture

The false teaching was promoted by John N Darby 1830's UK and C.I Scofields reference Bible of 1909 in the US, it's a fabricated fairy tale of man "Fiction"

 

[GeneZ]

Stop being childish in your false accusations, nowhere in the scripture does it show even a hint of a pre-trib rapture

The false teaching was promoted by John N Darby 1830's UK and C.I Scofields reference Bible of 1909, it's a fabricated fairy tale of man

Have a Nice Day...... Mr. Gaslighter.

 

[WPM]

Have a Nice Day...... Mr. Gaslighter.

Is it too difficult to ask Pretribbers to actually address the biblical arguments instead of doing what they accuse everyone else of? This is another classic case of Pretrib projection.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

All that showed was that all dead shall be resurrected.

Jesus said all of the dead will be resurrected at the same time/hour. How do you interpret this passage...

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

You believe in multiple future hours when the dead will be resurrected. Jesus taught that a singular hour/time is coming when all of the dead will be resurrected. We can trust that Jesus knew what He was talking about.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Even if that were so, theirs will be a different resurrection.

1 Corinthians 15:22-25

For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each one in his own order: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.​

Read that in context. The order of bodily resurrections Paul gives is that Christ's resurrection itself was first in order and then next in order are "those who belong to him" when He comes again. That's it. You add other resurrections that Paul never taught about.

 

[GeneZ]

Jesus said all of the dead will be resurrected at the same time/hour. How do you interpret this passage...

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

You believe in multiple future hours when the dead will be resurrected. Jesus taught that a singular hour/time is coming when all of the dead will be resurrected. We can trust that Jesus knew what He was talking about.

What I knew was that at the Rapture the dead in Christ will rise first.
John 5:28 is not at the time of the Rapture.

And, another point.
Those in the graves were resurrected at once.

But not everyone will be in their grave at that time; those who are yet living will need to be resurrected later.

 

[WPM]

What I knew was that at the Rapture the dead in Christ will rise first.
John 5:28 is not at the time of the Rapture.

And, another point.
Those in the graves were resurrected at once.

But not everyone will be in their grave at that time; those who are yet living will need to be resurrected later.

So, it doesn't say what it says? Hmmm!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

What I knew was that at the Rapture the dead in Christ will rise first.

They will rise first before then being caught up with those in Christ who are alive and remain. The dead in Christ rising first has nothing to do with the timing of when the dead who are not in Christ will be resurrected.

John 5:28 is not at the time of the Rapture.

Yes, it is. Jesus said specfically in John 5:28-29 that the hour/time is coming when ALL of the dead will be resurrected with believers and unbelievers being resurrected unto different eternal destinies (eternal life or eternal condemnation). It is your belief that multiple hours/times are coming when the dead will be resurrected. That is not what Jesus taught.

And, another point.
Those in the graves were resurrected at once.

But not everyone will be in their grave at that time; those who are yet living will need to be resurrected later.

Those who are alive and remain when Jesus comes will not need to be resurrected because they will not die. You are not thinking this through carefully at all.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

So, it doesn't say what it says? Hmmm!

So much for pretribs being the ones who are the literalists, right? Only when it's convenient for them.

 

[GeneZ]

They will rise first before then being caught up with those in Christ who are alive and remain. The dead in Christ rising first has nothing to do with the timing of when the dead who are not in Christ will be resurrected.

First point. You just pushed aside that not everyone is resurrected at the same time.

And, the passage you keep citing?
Would have to take place at the end of time on this planet for everyone to be in it, for there would have to be no more people left to die at that point.
Therefore, the Church will have already been resurrected and reigning with Christ before what you cited is to take place.

 

[GeneZ]

Yes, it is. Jesus said specfically in John 5:28-29 that the hour/time is coming when ALL of the dead will be resurrected with believers and unbelievers being resurrected unto different eternal destinies (eternal life or eternal condemnation). It is your belief that multiple hours/times are coming when the dead will be resurrected. That is not what Jesus taught.

All of the dead? All?
That would mean after the Millennium will end.
For there would be no more to die.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

First point. You just pushed aside that not everyone is resurrected at the same time.

I'm not pushing that aside. I'm showing where Jesus said that all of the dead will be resurrected at the same time/hour. That's what He said in John 5:28-29. Tell me how you interpret the passage.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

All of the dead? All?

Yes, all. That's what Jesus said. Do you trust in what Jesus taught or not?

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

He said the hour is coming when ALL that are in the graves will be resurrected. It couldn't be more clear. Yet, you believe multiple hours are coming when the dead will be resurrected. That's not what Jesus taught.

 

[WPM]

So much for pretribs being the ones who are the literalists, right? Only when it's convenient for them.

Exactly. It is duplicity.

 

[GeneZ]

Those who are alive and remain when Jesus comes will not need to be resurrected because they will not die. You are not thinking this through carefully at all.

They will receive their resurrection body without dying the normal way.
It is a resurrection just the same....
Into a body just like His own.

Who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, ​

will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body. ​

​

Philippians 3:21​

grace and peace ..........