Promises to His People

[Aunty Jane]

You have again presented your replacement theology. I for one will have no part in agreeing with your point of view or your cult's POV.

Just because you disagree with what the Bible plainly says, doesn’t mean that your take on replacement theology is valid. You can hang on to natural Israel and go down with her…that is your choice.

There were sound reasons for God wanting to repeatedly forgive them before the coming of his Messiah…..he was patient with his people until his purpose was fulfilled….then he “abandoned” them as Jesus said.
His patience has limits, as he demonstrated all through their history.

 

[Jay Ross]

Ah! Aunty Jane, you do not understand the parable of the fig tree in the garden that was given four ages to start to present good fruit when inspected. You have not been taught that in the Exodus 20:4-6 commandment that the iniquities of the fathers would be visited upon their children and the children's children during the third and the fourth age of Israel's existence.

That God's prophetic words to Israel was that when He will begin to gather all of Israel to Himself that He will sideline the Beasts and Satan and the Little Horn/False Prophet for many days and then release them after the 1,000 years of their imprisonment has passed so that they can be active during the little while period of the seventh age.

In Luke 14 Jesus informed us that there would be a battle that could be viewed from Jerusalem and that during this battle that Israel would decide to seek Christ's/the Lord's terms of peace. This is the Judgement battle at Armageddon.

In Luke 19 Jesus told us that when Satan goes away into the Abyss that some of Satan's servants, Israel, will send a delegation to God to declare that they no longer want Satan to be master over them.

Even Paul told us in Romans 11 that when the judgement time came, after the completion of the 2,300 years of the Gentles trampling God's Sanctuary and His earthly hosts, that all of Israel will be saved.

Sadly many "so called Christians" want to argue about the number of the Israelites that will be saves and by what mechanism they will be saved.

In Daniel 2, God revealed to Daniel that during the time of the kings of the feet of the Statue in the dream of the king that the foundational truth will come down from heaven and crush the feet of the statue such that it will topple and fall over and subsequently turned into chaff by this "rock" and that the residue and dust of the created chaff would be blown away by the winds of Heaven. This rock, that will come down from Heaven, will grow to become the greatest mountain in all of the world and over time it will dwarf all of the other hills that the dragon will drape himself over during the Little while period.

There are many examples within the scriptures that clearly indicate that God has not forgotten Israel and that He will cleanse them by the sprinkling of water over them and that He will make like new again the Kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nation and His Possession among the Nations Covenant once more so that Israel will become a Blessing to all of the Nations.

Now you can argue against this vision that God has painted over time for Israel. Your argument is with God, and not with me, so instead of trying to prove that I do not have any understanding of the End Times take your argument up with God and see if you can convince God to change what He intends to do between now and the end of the seventh Age from what He has prophetically said in our scriptures. In that endeavour, I wish you luck. From my point of view, you will not succeed.

Goodbye

 

[Keraz]

Literal Israel and Spiritual Israel:
Throughout the New Testament, as well as in some prophecies of the Old Testament, the Bible makes a transition from literal Israel to spiritual Israel. Hosea 2:23, Romans 2:28-29; Galatians 3:29; Romans 9-11

In Revelation 12:1-17, we find this transition from literal to spiritual Israel in the prophetic language of symbols. In verse 2, the symbolic woman is pregnant. Her child is Jesus who was born a Jew in the land of Judah. In verse 4 the dragon/Satan seeks to destroy the child Jesus when He is born. This was fulfilled by Herod: Matthew 2:13-16. In verse 5 the child is caught up to God in heaven, representing the resurrection of Christ.

As the prophecy progresses in verse 6, the woman no longer represents ethnic Israel but has now transitioned to spiritual Christian Israel: fleeing from persecution during the prophesied 42 months of the Great Tribulation. Verses 7-12 describes the victory gained over Satan by Jesus’ death on the Cross and how Satan and his angels are finally thrown down to the earth, 1260 days, three and a half years, the 42 month period before Jesus physically Returns.

Then, in verse 13 the woman is again brought to view, being persecuted by Satan. In verse 14 she is given wings of an eagle so as she can escape. Verses 6 and 14 present a major prophetic transition to God’s people. Both the woman and her place have changed from ethnic Israel in the Middle East to spiritual Israel and the place God has prepared for her. Note that some Christians remain: verse 17 and Satan persecutes them. They are the ‘many’ that agreed to the 7 year treaty of peace with the Anti-Christ, Daniel 11:32a and do not go into exile: Zephaniah 14:2

It is important to understand three truths outlined in the prophecy and confirmed both in the New Testament and in the history of the church:

1. After the death of Christ, the Israel of God, transitioned from literal Israel to spiritual Israel. From an ethnic people to all peoples. 1 Peter 2:9-10
2. God’s faithful people: the woman, are moved from the holy Land to a place of safety on earth, given to her by God, to avoid the Great Tribulation.
3. The new Israel of God: all true Christians, are the focal point of the New Testament and the inheritors of God’s promises to ancient Israel.

Thinking that God still has a plan to redeem ethnic Israel; the Jewish people, conflicts with many prophesies that say how Judah will be judged and only a remnant will survive. It is Christians, from every race, nation and language who are God’s true, righteous people. Galatians 6:16; the Overcomers [Israelites] of God.

The ‘woman’ in the latter part of this prophecy represents spiritual Israel: all faithful believers in Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:28; Romans 2:28-29

Revelation 12 presents us with a prophetic outline of God’s Christian people in the symbolic form of a woman. In the first part of Revelation 12, the woman is the literal House of Judah located in Palestine, The latter part of the same prophecy makes use of the same symbols that took literal Israel on their journey to Canaan; to now describe the journey of the woman, the Christian Israelites of God, to a safe place on earth where they can worship Him in safety, until the 1260 days of the Great Tribulation have passed.
Ref: James Rafferty

 

[Zao is life]

Fullness of the Gentiles also has not understood that the Jer 31:31ff covenant renewal is the initial Covenant that Israel had agreed to before Moses went up onto the mountain to speak with God face to face.

Nope. You are betraying your ignorance of the scriptures. They only agreed to it after Moses had met with God face to face the second time and brought them the law, after he initially threw down the tablets of stone and broke them because of the people's idolatry.

3 Moses came and told the people all the LORD's words and all the decisions. All the people answered together, "We are willing to do all the words that the LORD has said," 4 and Moses wrote down all the words of the LORD. Early in the morning he built an altar at the foot of the mountain and arranged twelve standing stones - according to the twelve tribes of Israel. 5 He sent young Israelite men, and they offered burnt offerings and sacrificed young bulls for peace offerings to the LORD. 6 Moses took half of the blood and put it in bowls, and half of the blood he splashed on the altar. 7 He took the Book of the Covenant and read it aloud to the people, and they said, "We are willing to do and obey all that the LORD has spoken." 8 So Moses took the blood and splashed it on the people and said, "This is the blood of the covenant that the LORD has made with you in accordance with all these words." -- Exodus 24

The above is the Mosaic Covenant that God made with the people "in the day He took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt"; and the covenant was based as much upon the people's faithfulness to their promise to do and obey all the law, as it was on God's faithfulness - and they did not promise to obey before Moses went up the mountain and received the law, as you falsely claim.

Note: The Mosaic Covenant did not replace the covenant God made with Abraham and His seed 430 years earlier, so as to abolish it:

16 And to Abraham and to his Seed the promises were spoken. It does not say, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, "And to your Seed," which is Christ.
17 And I say this, A covenant having been ratified to Christ by God in Christ, the Law (coming into being four hundred and thirty years after) does not annul the promise, so as to abolish it.
18 For if the inheritance is of Law, it is no more of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by way of promise. Galatians 3

So in your first sentence regarding your opinion of "what I have not understood" you have betrayed the fact that you have not understood the New Covenant promise contained in the words of Jeremiah 31:31-32 because the lie you have told yourself (and repeated in your post) is that it's "the initial covenant that Israel had agreed to before Moses went up onto the mountain to speak with God face to face:​

Fullness of the Gentiles also has not understood that the Jer 31:31ff covenant renewal is the initial Covenant that Israel had agreed to before Moses went up onto the mountain to speak with God face to face. He attempted to state that I was referring to the Mosaic Covenant which contained much of the Law requirement for the Israelites to follow after they had rebelled against the Kingdom of Priests, A holy Nation and God's Possession among the Nation Covenant.

What? The priesthood was only instituted through the Mosaic law. It was part of Mosaic law. The priesthood did not exist before God gave Israel the law through Moses. Your statement above is nonsensical and once again betrays the fact that you do not understand, because you do not know the scriptures (or you have twisted them beyond recognition in your mind).​

The Jer 31;31ff renewal of this covenant is what God is presenting in this prophetic passage, but with one or two minor tweaks.

There is no renewal of the Mosaic Covenant mentioned by the prophet. Only an entirely new covenant that would not be like the Mosaic Covenant - which is the covenant God made with Israel in the day He took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt. You've made it very clear that you have twisted the meaning of the scriptures in your mind, and you are expressing the false notions you have come to believe as a result. Then you end up posting falsehood like this below:​

Fulness of the Gentiles' focus is on a brand-new covenant which is not what Christ came to establish. Christ came to renew the Salvation covenant by tweaking the process by which the Salvation Covenant would bring about the redemption of the nations of the earth.

All of the above is nonsense, in the full sense of the meaning of the word "nonsense". There was no 'tweaking' of the Mosaic Covenant. The new covenant is living and everlasting, established in Christ's blood, and will never pass away, because He rose again from the dead and ever lives to make intercession for us before the throne of God in the heavenly tabernacle.

The old covenant (the Mosaic) covenant was established the the blood of an animal, and animal sacrifice was required year after year.

All the law, the priesthood, and the temple sacrificial system contained in the Mosaic Covenant which has become old, is a shadow or pattern of the New Covenant.

You have now betrayed the fact that you have twisted the scriptures in your mind and are expressing ignorance of the scriptures. Unfortunately what you say as a result is nothing more or less than a confusing noise.​

Oh, Aunty Jane, it seems that you have not meditated on what I have posted. If my understanding is warped, then heaven help.

I'm glad to know that you at least know where your help will come from, if and when you indeed ask for it (because at the moment what you say implies that you do not believe that you need help with your warped version of the scriptures. But you do need help).​

 

[Aunty Jane]

Now you can argue against this vision that God has painted over time for Israel. Your argument is with God, and not with me, so instead of trying to prove that I do not have any understanding of the End Times take your argument up with God and see if you can convince God to change what He intends to do between now and the end of the seventh Age from what He has prophetically said in our scriptures. In that endeavour, I wish you luck. From my point of view, you will not succeed.

That post was so scrambled, I honestly don’t know where to start….who else believes as you do?
Do you have a brotherhood who shares your beliefs? Or are these your own conclusions?

Israel was not chosen because of God’s great love for these people whom he at times wanted to exterminate….but he committed himself to them because of his great affection for Abraham. He appealed to them as a Father, but he got no respect from the majority of the Jews, who were indoctrinated by the Pharisees. (Matt 15:7-9)

God’s promised seed was going to come to earth as a human, so he used Israel to form the basis of his credentials….born as a son of Abraham, through the tribe of Judah, no man could have orchestrated that by himself….his Father organized that for him to prove who he was. He was born fully human though he was without sin. He had to be the exact equivalent of Adam in order to redeem mankind…..”eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, soul for soul”….a sinless life had to be offered for the sinless life lost by Adam’s children.

Jesus was sinless but he was not immortal…..if he was immortal, he could not die and if he did not truly die, the ransom was not paid, and we are still condemned.

When he sacrificed his life so willingly, Jesus asked his Father to “forgive them for they know not what they do”…he was not talking about the Pharisees…he was talking about the Roman soldiers who drove the nails into his flesh…..Jesus had already condemned the Pharisees to “Gehenna”. (Matt 23:33)

I have been studying the end times prophesies for decades and they bear no resemblance to what you have posted…..Dan ch 2 tells of the dream image that King Nebuchadnezzar had concerning the march of world powers down through history, connected with God’s people…..starting with Babylon itself. Unconquerable Babylon, which was renown for never allowing it’s prisoners to go free, fell in one night, true to Daniel’s prophesy concerning the waters being dried up (the conquerors diverted the waters of the river that served as a mote for the city and they walked in through unlocked gates to take mighty Babylon down).

Persian King Cyrus was no doubt chuffed that his name had been written in prophesy as the one who would free Israel from Babylon’s clutches.
The next world power to dominate Israel was Greece, under the leadership of Alexander the Great., whose life was cut short, leading the way for the rise of the Roman Empire, who ruled when Jesus walked the earth. Jesus said that the “Gentile Times” (or “the appointed times of the nations”) had to run their course before the coming of God’s Kingdom.
Israel would never be restored to their homeland by God, with a third Temple because God had sent his Messiah and the need for an earthly temple no longer existed, nor were their animal sacrifices needed any longer.

Rome was never conquered but fell due to its own decadence….out of the ashes of Rome came the British Empire who later allied itself to its estranged children of the USA. This Anglo-Amercian dual world power would be the last rulers before the coming of God’s Kingdom, which was to crush these kingdoms out of existence and replace them as Earth’s only rulership. (Dan 2:44)

This is what Daniel prophesied…and his prophesies related directly to “the time of the end”…in fact they were not going to be understood at all until our day. (Daniel 12:4; 9-10)

 

[Jay Ross]

Nope. You are betraying your ignorance of the scriptures. They only agreed to it after Moses had met with God face to face the second time and brought them the law, after he initially threw down the tablets of stone and broke them because of the people's idolatry.

3 Moses came and told the people all the LORD's words and all the decisions. All the people answered together, "We are willing to do all the words that the LORD has said," 4 and Moses wrote down all the words of the LORD. Early in the morning he built an altar at the foot of the mountain and arranged twelve standing stones - according to the twelve tribes of Israel. 5 He sent young Israelite men, and they offered burnt offerings and sacrificed young bulls for peace offerings to the LORD. 6 Moses took half of the blood and put it in bowls, and half of the blood he splashed on the altar. 7 He took the Book of the Covenant and read it aloud to the people, and they said, "We are willing to do and obey all that the LORD has spoken." 8 So Moses took the blood and splashed it on the people and said, "This is the blood of the covenant that the LORD has made with you in accordance with all these words." -- Exodus 24

How about this passage from Exodus 19: -

Israel at Mount Sinai

19:1 In the third month after the children of Israel had gone out of the land of Egypt, on the same day, they came to the Wilderness of Sinai. 2 For they had departed from Rephidim, had come to the Wilderness of Sinai, and camped in the wilderness. So, Israel camped there before the mountain.

3 And Moses went up to God, and the Lord called to him from the mountain, saying, "Thus you shall say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel: 4 'You have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles' wings and brought you to Myself. 5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be a special treasure to Me above all people; for all the earth is Mine. 6 And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.' These are the words which you shall speak to the children of Israel."

7 So Moses came and called for the elders of the people and laid before them all these words which the Lord commanded him. 8 Then all the people answered together and said, "All that the Lord has spoken we will do." So, Moses brought back the words of the people to the Lord. 9 And the Lord said to Moses, "Behold, I come to you in the thick cloud, that the people may hear when I speak with you and believe you forever."

So, Moses told the words of the people to the Lord.

This is the covenant that is also found in Jer 31:31ff.

After God establishes the covenant of a Kingdom of Priest, a Holy Nation and His possession among the nation Covenant, then Moses goes up onto the mountain to talk face to face with God for forty days. It was during this time that the nation of Israel rebelled against God and had Aaron fashion a Golden Calf Idol for them to worship. This rebellion is recorded in Exodus 32.

Oh well, it seems to me that you have a particular axe to grind.

Goodbye.

 

[Jay Ross]

That post was so scrambled, I honestly don’t know where to start….who else believes as you do?
Do you have a brotherhood who shares your beliefs? Or are these your own conclusions?

You cannot read the prophecies of Daniel without reference to the Prophecies of Jeremiah 50-51.

The Daniel 2 Statue prophecy tells us of what would be happening to the kingdom over the Land of the Chaldeans.

The Roman empire does not figure in this prophecy as you are suggesting as the Greek Empire desolated and desolated the Land of the Chaldeans some 60 years before the Romaa Empire began to flex its muscle on the world stage at that time.

The Land of the Chaldeans remained desolated and desolated for two ages which is just over 2,000 years and was remembered once more in 1926 by the British and France government when as the victors over the Otterman Empire, they redefined the national boundaries of the Middle east and created the Nation of Iraq which would for a time have dominion over the Land of the Chaldeans. Iraq is the fourth segment of the Statue in the Daniel 2 prophecy. The feet and the ten toes describe the Coalition of the Willing who entered the Nation of Iraq to heal the land of Babylon because of the oil within the land.

You can put down what I have written by claiming that I am strange to believe what I have posted, but your argument is with God as to how He intends the End Time to unfold. I am comfortable to be proven wrong, but it requires another 20-25 years before the world's history will prove or reject what I have posted because by then God's prophetic words will have played out up and until that time to demonstrate the truth or otherwise of what I have posted in this thread.

Perhaps God will allow me to see what I have written in this thread, however it will be more than likely that my toes will have assumed an upwards stance before these things will be known..

Goodbye.

 

[Zao is life]

How about this passage from Exodus 19: -

Israel at Mount Sinai

19:1 In the third month after the children of Israel had gone out of the land of Egypt, on the same day, they came to the Wilderness of Sinai. 2 For they had departed from Rephidim, had come to the Wilderness of Sinai, and camped in the wilderness. So, Israel camped there before the mountain.

3 And Moses went up to God, and the Lord called to him from the mountain, saying, "Thus you shall say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel: 4 'You have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles' wings and brought you to Myself. 5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be a special treasure to Me above all people; for all the earth is Mine. 6 And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.' These are the words which you shall speak to the children of Israel."

7 So Moses came and called for the elders of the people and laid before them all these words which the Lord commanded him. 8 Then all the people answered together and said, "All that the Lord has spoken we will do." So, Moses brought back the words of the people to the Lord. 9 And the Lord said to Moses, "Behold, I come to you in the thick cloud, that the people may hear when I speak with you and believe you forever."

So, Moses told the words of the people to the Lord.

This is the covenant that is also found in Jer 31:31ff.

After God establishes the covenant of a Kingdom of Priest, a Holy Nation and His possession among the nation Covenant, then Moses goes up onto the mountain to talk face to face with God for forty days. It was during this time that the nation of Israel rebelled against God and had Aaron fashion a Golden Calf Idol for them to worship. This rebellion is recorded in Exodus 32.

Oh well, it seems to me that you have a particular axe to grind.

Goodbye.

When someone exposes your error, then "he has an axe to grind", according to you. When you disagree and push your own private version of the scriptures, then suddenly it's not an axe.

Stop feeling sorry for yourself.

1 In the third month after the Israelites went out from the land of Egypt, on the very day, they came to the Desert of Sinai.
2 After they journeyed from Rephidim, they came to the Desert of Sinai, and they camped in the desert; Israel camped there in front of the mountain.

THE COVENANT COULD NOT BE MADE BEFORE THE LAW AND THE COMMANDMENTS WERE GIVEN.

3 Moses went up to God, and the LORD called to him from the mountain,

"Thus you will tell the house of Jacob, and declare to the people of Israel:

Before God gave them the law (Exodus 20-23), and before He made a covenant with them which was based on their faithfulness to their promise to do and obey all that God was about to command, God got their agreement:

Exodus 19:4-6
You yourselves have seen what I did to Egypt and how I lifted you on eagles' wings and brought you to myself. And now, if you will diligently listen to me and keep my covenant, then you will be my special possession out of all the nations, for all the earth is mine, and you will be to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.'

These are the words that you will speak to the Israelites."

7 So Moses came and summoned the elders of Israel. He set before them all these words that the LORD had commanded him,
8 and all the people answered together, "All that the LORD has commanded we will do!"

So Moses brought the words of the people back to the LORD.

Once the people had agreed that they would do and obey all that God was about to command, God was now ready to give them the law:

9 The LORD said to Moses, "I am going to come to you in a dense cloud, so that the people may hear when I speak with you and so that they will always believe in you."

And Moses told the words of the people to the LORD.

The covenant that was based on their promise to do and obey all the the law required, was not made yet. No covenant had been made yet. God only made the (Mosaic) covenant of law with them AFTER giving them the law (Exodus 20-23):

Exodus 24
3 Moses came and told the people all the LORD's words and all the decisions. All the people answered together, "We are willing to do all the words that the LORD has said,"
4 and Moses wrote down all the words of the LORD. Early in the morning he built an altar at the foot of the mountain and arranged twelve standing stones - according to the twelve tribes of Israel.
5 He sent young Israelite men, and they offered burnt offerings and sacrificed young bulls for peace offerings to the LORD.

THE COVENANT BEING MADE

Moses had now written the law into a scroll - "the book of the covenant":

6 Moses took half of the blood and put it in bowls, and half of the blood he splashed on the altar.
7 He took the Book of the Covenant and read it aloud to the people, and they said, "We are willing to do and obey all that the LORD has spoken."
8 So Moses took the blood and splashed it on the people and said, "This is the blood of the covenant that the LORD has made with you in accordance with all these words."

In Exodus 24 they again promised to do and obey all that God commanded, and the blood of the Mosaic covenant sealed the covenant. After this God gives Moses the instructions (also part of the law) regarding the tabernacle and how God was to be worshiped (Exodus 25-31).

In Exodus 32 we read how they already broke the covenant while Moses was receiving the instructions regarding the tabernacle, in actions which included the golden calf.

There was only one covenant - the covenant of law (the Mosaic Covenant), not "an initial covenant and then another covenant (as you claimed in your previous post).

That one (Mosaic) covenant of law was repeatedly broken by Israel, from their days in the wilderness all though the centuries, until Christ came and died for their sins, ushering in a completely new covenant in His blood, which as Jeremiah stated, is not like the covenant God made with them "in the day He took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt".

You have expressed your own personal version of the scriptures in this thread, and have come up with - as another poster called it - a warped theology based on your faulty personal interpretation of the scriptures.​

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Jeremiah 30:23-24 See what a fiery wind has gone out from the Lord. A whirlwind that sweeps around the heads of the wicked, the Lord’s anger is not to be turned aside until He has fully accomplished His purpose.

Jeremiah 30:4-7 This is what the Lord says to Israel and Judah: We have heard a cry of terror, of fear without relief, every face turns pale. How awful is that Day, there has been none like it. It is a time of anguish for Jacob, yet he will come through it safely.

This describes the Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, the next prophesied event, the Sixth Seal, in the near future. It will clear the way for His people, Christian Israelites, be they true descendants of Jacob or grafted in, to gather and settle in the new nation of Beulah, in all of the holy land.



Jeremiah 30:1-3 The Lord God of Israel, tells Jeremiah to write His words: The time is coming, when I shall restore the fortunes of My people, both Judah and Israel, and bring them back to take possession of the Land which I gave to their ancestors.

Jeremiah 30:8-22 In that Day, I shall break the yoke of servitude off their necks, they will serve only Me and David, their King, raised up for them. Do not be afraid, Israel, My servants, for I shall bring you back safe from afar, all your posterity from the lands where they are now. You will be at rest once more, secure and untroubled, for I am with you, to save you. The nations will be punished and you too, will be disciplined as you deserve.
Israel and Judah were punished for their sins by exile among the nations. Yet all who despoiled you will themselves be despoiled, I will heal your wounds.

The Lord says: I shall restore the fortunes of all Israel and show my love for his dwellings. Cities and houses will be rebuilt where they once were. From them, praise and merrymaking will be heard. My people will increase and be honoured, their oppressors will be punished.

A ruler will appear, one of themselves, a governor will arise from among them. I will bring him near and let him approach Me. So you will be My people and I shall be your God. Ref: REB. Verses abridged.

Jeremiah 30:24b In days to come, you will understand.



These wonderful promises to His servants, all of the Christian peoples, all grafted into the Tree that is Jesus – their heritage regenerated, brought back safely from afar, to take possession of their Land, secure and untroubled, cities and houses rebuilt, they will increase and be honoured.

It is not hard to imagine, the ‘praise and merrymaking’ of His people after such amazing promises are fulfilled.

The King mentioned in Jeremiah 30:9 will be Jesus, after His Return. But, before the Return, ‘a leader will appear, one of themselves’, he will be able to approach the Lord in the same way as Moses and David did, so long ago.

All the Lord’s righteous people, will live in peace and prosperity in the Land of Greater Israel, the new country of Beulah, Isaiah 62:1-5, after the clearance brought about by the Day of the Lord’s fiery wrath. They will send out 144,000 missionaries to proclaim the good news of the coming Kingdom of God. Isaiah 66:19, Revelation 7:1-8

WRONG AGAIN, BUT HEY DO NOT LET ME STOP YOU FROM ALLEGORIZING GODS wORD AND REPLACING IT WITH YOU R OPINIONS.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The new Israel of God: all true Christians, are the focal point of the New Testament and the inheritors of God’s promises to ancient Israel.

Time will show you how wrong you actually are here!

 

[Jay Ross]

There was only one covenant - the covenant of law (the Mosaic Covenant), not "an initial covenant and then another covenant (as you claimed in your previous post).

That one (Mosaic) covenant of law was repeatedly broken by Israel, from their days in the wilderness all though the centuries, until Christ came and died for their sins, ushering in a completely new covenant in His blood, which as Jeremiah stated, is not like the covenant God made with them "in the day He took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt".

Your have expressed your own personal version of the scriptures in this thread, and have come up with - as another poster called it - a warped theology based on your faulty personal interpretation of the scriptures.

Your understanding is that there are two covenants made, described as the old covenant and then around 1400 years later a New covenant.

In Daniel 9:24b we are told that the process by which the Old Covenant's redemption would be gained was going to be changed in the near future to only one sacrifice being required and that was the sacrifice of God's only Begotten Son on the cross.

In 70 AD the Promised land sign covenant ended with Israel being scattered to the four corners of the earth which was a fulfilment of the Covenant made with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob so that their descendants could be a blessing to all of the peoples of the world.

In 70 AD the loosening of the physical temple in Jerusalem, brought about by the Israelites themselves, brought to a conclusion the old process by which redemption for Israel's sins by the offering of Bulls etc. as their Sin Sacrifice could be offered in a physical temple.

In all that Jesus taught He always spoke of "refreshing" the existing Laws and as He stated, He did not come to alter a tit or a tat in the recorded Laws given, but you are claiming that He created a brand-New Covenant when all that happened on the cross was that the process by which people can now gain their redemption has been changed.

Your "handle" for this forum is "Fullness of the Gentiles" suggests that you are identifying yourself as being part of the "nations" that are still trampling God's Sanctuary and His Earthly Hosts, Israel at this present time. Within 20-25 years' time the fullness of the Gentiles will come to its 2,300 year completion and the Kings of the Earth will be drawn, as a result of the 9/11 events when three frog like evil spirits did signs and wonders, to begin the process of drawing the Kings of the earth to Armageddon to be judged for their part in the trampling of God's sanctuary and His earthly hosts over the past 2,300 years at that time. At this time God has promised to remove the "Beasts of the fields" from the face of the earth for a time so that the people and Israel will have a time of peace on the earth to learn about the significance of the foundational "rock" that will come down from heaven that will become the greatest mountain on the earth and the establishment of God's everlasting Kingdom which will be given to Christ to have dominion over such that all the peoples of the earth should worship Him.

But I am only quoting the Old Testament, which is our title for the covenant that existed before the Cross, whereas you are wanting to change the covenant by calling it a New Covenant to separate yourself, like many other "New covenant" "Christians from the God that is the same today, yesterday and tomorrow by instigating your own "laws" as to how people will become acceptable to God.

Today people need a renewed heart that is the same as Christ's heart so that we can lowly and a servant of the Lord's.

We cannot set up the means by which this can be achieved because the ancient covenant, from the time of Adam. that is in God's household, has only been refreshed, which those who are fully versed in the Kingdom of God are to bring out and present to those who are around them to introduce God's Redemptive plan for them.

If as you claim that God has changed His plan from the ancient days, then be my guest, run with it, but for my household we will worship the Lord and rely on His mercies for all of our days.

Shalom

 

[Aunty Jane]

You cannot read the prophecies of Daniel without reference to the Prophecies of Jeremiah 50-51.

Exactly....the word of God is given to his faithful prophets to record for our benefit....the same God spoke to all of them.
Daniel 9:2...
“in the first year of his reign I, Daniel, discerned by the books the number of years mentioned in the word of Jehovah to Jeremiah the prophet to fulfill the desolation of Jerusalem, namely, 70 years.”

Without Jeremiah’s prophesy, Daniel would not have been able to calculate where Israel was in the stream of time, taken captive by a nation that never released its prisoners. He knew from the scriptures when their time in Babylon was almost up.

The Daniel 2 Statue prophecy tells us of what would be happening to the kingdom over the Land of the Chaldeans.

Not so....it was about the domination of worldly nations over Israel that this prophesy was telling....and it fits perfectly with what we know about those kingdoms in hindsight. All of them dominated the nation of Israel, some on their own soil. The holy land was not holy with worshippers of foreign gods holding authority over the Jews. It would never become holy again because it was pictorial of something much grander. Does the Creator of the Universe need a small piece of dirt on one tiny planet to be held sacred in perpetuity, with infidels at the helm? Look at Jerusalem today and see what God sees.....

The Roman empire does not figure in this prophecy as you are suggesting as the Greek Empire desolated and desolated the Land of the Chaldeans some 60 years before the Romaa Empire began to flex its muscle on the world stage at that time.

It was never about the land of the Chaldeans.....it was about God’s people under the authority of gentile nations down to the last days, where we are now. Israel is currently fighting over their piece of dirt when they lost authority over it, many centuries ago. Israel today is a political nation, not God’s nation. It is a mish mash of Jewish sects and unbelievers with a Temple Mount that no longer has any significance to God because it has three squabbling so called “Abrahamic” faiths, fighting each other over it.
How can Jehovah be a party to that?

The Land of the Chaldeans remained desolated and desolated for two ages which is just over 2,000 years and was remembered once more in 1926 by the British and France government when as the victors over the Otterman Empire, they redefined the national boundaries of the Middle east and created the Nation of Iraq which would for a time have dominion over the Land of the Chaldeans. Iraq is the fourth segment of the Statue in the Daniel 2 prophecy. The feet and the ten toes describe the Coalition of the Willing who entered the Nation of Iraq to heal the land of Babylon because of the oil within the land.

The land of the Babylonians and it’s great city with its Hanging Gardens, was once a mighty empire, but today it is not even a shadow of its former self....it’s rulers have said that they would rebuild it...but to this day, true to prophesy, they never have.

You can put down what I have written by claiming that I am strange to believe what I have posted, but your argument is with God as to how He intends the End Time to unfold.

Am I to believe one man over a brotherhood of over 8 million, who live in peace and who all believe the same truth? They do not meddle in politics, (John 17:16) they do not have blood on their hands, (Isaiah 1:15) they are objects of hatred by the world without cause, (John 15:18-21) and are preachers of God’s Kingdom in every nation on earth. (Matt 24:14)....I have found no other brotherhood who compare with them at all.

I am comfortable to be proven wrong, but it requires another 20-25 years before the world's history will prove or reject what I have posted because by then God's prophetic words will have played out up and until that time to demonstrate the truth or otherwise of what I have posted in this thread.

I really don’t believe that we have very much time left at all....Jesus told us to look for the “signs” of his return and they are all here and have been unfolding for over 100 years. (Matthew 24:43-44) This is “the last days” (2 Tim 3:1-5) when all that Jesus prophesied in Matthew ch 24 would take place.....including the identification of the “faithful slave” whom Jesus appointed to “feed “ his fellow slaves their “food at the proper time”. (Matt 24:45) This slave was appointed to guide and direct Christ’s household until he manifests as God’s appointed judge. (Matthew 28:19-20)
If we find that “slave” in amongst all the fake ones set up by the devil...only then will we be feeding at the correct table....and it’s not a buffet.

Perhaps God will allow me to see what I have written in this thread, however it will be more than likely that my toes will have assumed an upwards stance before these things will be known.

I sincerely doubt it because I know of no other “Christians” who believe anything close to what you have posted on this thread. You cannot be a “Christian” in isolation from other Christians. All must hold the same beliefs. (1 Cor 1:10)

The old covenant is finished.....nailed to the execution stake upon which our Lord Jesus was sacrificed. (Col 2:14) The new covenant was inaugurated on the night before Christ’s death, by making a binding agreement with his apostles as the very foundation of God’s Kingdom....the means by which God will reconcile all redeemed mankind to himself, and bring us back to where we started.....living forever in paradise on earth, ruled over by the only government that actually fulfills what it promises.

 

[Jay Ross]

Exactly....the word of God is given to his faithful prophets to record for our benefit....the same God spoke to all of them.
Daniel 9:2...
“in the first year of his reign I, Daniel, discerned by the books the number of years mentioned in the word of Jehovah to Jeremiah the prophet to fulfill the desolation of Jerusalem, namely, 70 years.”

Without Jeremiah’s prophesy, Daniel would not have been able to calculate where Israel was in the stream of time, taken captive by a nation that never released its prisoners. He knew from the scriptures when their time in Babylon was almost up.

What you have said is true with respect to when the 70 years were to be completed, but Jeremiah 50-51 is not dealing with the 70 year time period that you are referencing in your rebuttal. Jeremiah deals with the time period from the time that the Greek Empire in the east dismantled the utility structures in the land of the Chaldeans, i.e. Babylon, loaded them onto drays and carted these utilities along with the people to the four corners of their empire to the north. My understanding is that this happened around the year 120 BC, 60 years before the Roman Empire became a dominate power in the known world at that time.

Not so....it was about the domination of worldly nations over Israel that this prophesy was telling....and it fits perfectly with what we know about those kingdoms in hindsight.

That was the claim of the reformation Fathers to justify their claims against the RRC. The Jeremaih 50-51 prophetic prophecies concerning the Land of the Chaldeans/Babylon could not be anticipated by the Biblical scholars during the Reformation, just like the return of some of Abraham's descendants, 4,000 years after the birth of Isaac, in their own strength as foretold in Genesis 15:16a, was not fully understood or expected until the middle of the 19th Century when the Zionist began to agitate to be given the Land of Canaan to become their homeland once more. It was prophetically foretold in the Seventh Bowl judgement that during the time period that the Seventh Bowl Judgement Rev 16:19: - "Now the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath."

It was never about the land of the Chaldeans.....it was about God’s people under the authority of gentile nations down to the last days, where we are now. Israel is currently fighting over their piece of dirt when they lost authority over it, many centuries ago.

It seems to me that you are referring to the Daniel 8:9-14 prophecy where the Little Horn Beast is to be given armies over a period of 2,300 years to trample God's sanctuary and His earthly Hosts in the above quote, where Israel was pursued to scattered them to the four corners of the earth to fulfil the Abrahamic covenant where Abraham's descendants would be a blessing for all of the nations of the earth in the distant future.

I sincerely doubt it because I know of no other “Christians” who believe anything close to what you have posted on this thread. You cannot be a “Christian” in isolation from other Christians. All must hold the same beliefs. (1 Cor 1:10)

This proposition that you cannot be a "Christian" in isolation is flawed because

Am I to believe one man over a brotherhood of over 8 million.

If you believe in Christ, then you are believing what one man taught is more relevant than what a brotherhood of over 8,000,000 believe all holding the same beliefs. The question that must be answered is: - " Is what they believe actually the truth, or have they been convinced to accept what their "learned" teachers, teach.

If I am wrong, then God will deal with me.

However, I have confidence that what the Lord has revealed to us all in the scriptures is true. The problem is the number of understandings that are prevalent today, means that there is no unity in the Body of Christ. All the sect that exists all believe that it is only their understanding that is the actual word of God.

I am happy to wait another 20-25 years from now to see if, what I am saying about the Armageddon judgement of the Kings of the earth, for their trampling of God's sanctuary and His earthly Hosts, will take place and that God, at the same time, will remove the influence of the beasts of the field from the face of the earth so that there can be peace on the earth.

I am prepared to wait for God to reveal His truth in the next 25 or so years. Are you willing to wait for God to confirm your "truth" as well?

Goodbye.

 

[Zao is life]

Your understanding is that there are two covenants made, described as the old covenant and then around 1400 years later a New covenant.

Please do not tell me what my understanding is. It shows up your dishonesty yet again - because you misrepresented what I said about the covenants in your post above. I did not - even once - say that there are (only) two covenants made. The Mosaic Covenant which came 430 years after the Abrahamic Covenant - which elected Abraham and his seed forever - does not annul the Abrahamic Covenant.

"The time will be when they will not endure sound doctrine, but they will heap up teachers to themselves according to their own lusts, tickling the ear. And they will turn away their ears from the truth and will be turned to myths." -- 2 Timothy 4:3-4.

In 70 AD the Promised land sign covenant

What is a "sign covenant"?

ended with .. a fulfilment of the Covenant made with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob so that their descendants could be a blessing to all of the peoples of the world.

Only the Lord Jesus Christ, the seed of Abraham, is the seed through whom all the nations of the earth are blessed. Your exaltation of all the descendants of Abraham to the same level of Christ is blasphemous and idolatrous.

In 70 AD the loosening of the physical temple in Jerusalem, brought about by the Israelites themselves, brought to a conclusion the old process by which redemption for Israel's sins by the offering of Bulls etc. as their Sin Sacrifice could be offered in a physical temple.

False. The conclusion did not come in 70 A.D. It came when Christ shed His blood for sins and died in 30 A.D. The continued sacrifices which took place in the 40 years from then until 70 A.D are the overspreading of abominations mentioned in Daniel 9:27:

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. -- Daniel 9.

4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5 Therefore when He comes into the world, He says, "Sacrifice and offering You did not desire, but You have prepared a body for Me.
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have had no pleasure.
7 Then I said, Lo, I come ( in the volume of the Book it is written of Me) to do Your will, O God."
8 Above, when He said, "Sacrifice and offering, and burnt offerings and offering for sin You did not desire, neither did You have pleasure in them" (which are offered by the Law),
9 then He said, "Lo, I come to do Your will, O God." He takes away the first (covenant and system of law with its sacrificial system) so that He may establish the second (NEW COVENANT)..
10 By this will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And indeed every priest stands daily ministering and offering often the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins.
12 But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right of God,
13 from then on expecting until His enemies are made His footstool.
14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are sanctified.
15 The Holy Spirit also is a witness to us; for after He had said before,
16 "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord; I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,"
17 also He ads, "their sins and their iniquities I will remember no more."
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. -- Hebrews 10:4-18

Jesus is the Mediator of THE NEW COVENANT, not the "NEW" Mediator of "the old (Mosaic) Covenant, as you falsely assert. Daniel 9:24 - the entire verse - says absolutely NOTHING about a "redemption" of the Mosaic Covenant.

In all that Jesus taught He always spoke of "refreshing" the existing Laws and as He stated,

He never ONCE spoke of the "refreshing" of the laws:

17 Do not think that I have come to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I have not come to destroy but to FULFILL.
18 For truly I say to you, Till the heaven and the earth pass away, not one jot or one tittle shall in any way pass from the law until all is FULFILLED.

He said, Do not think that I have come to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I have not come to destroy but to FULFILL - and THEN HE FULFILLED IT, like this:

13 No one has greater love than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. -- John 15

10 If you keep My commandments, you shall abide in My love, even as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.
12 This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.
13 No one has greater love than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
14 You are My friends if you do whatever I command you.

23 And this is His commandment, that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as He gave us commandment.
24 And he who keeps His commandment dwells in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit which He gave to us. -- 1 John 3

8 Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.
9 For: "Do not commit adultery; do not murder; do not steal; do not bear false witness; do not lust;" and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this word, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
10 Love works no ill to its neighbor, therefore love IS THE FULFILLING OF THE LAW. -- Romans 13.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is: love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith,
23 meekness, self-control; against such things there is no law. Galatians 5.

The law is:

" the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount." Hebrews 8:5.

1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. -- Hebrews 10.

The law and commandments are NOTHING MORE than the shadow of the fruit of the Spirit, which FULFILLS THE LAW:

4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: FOR WITHOUT ME YE CAN DO NOTHING.

Though the law is good (though the shadow of the fruit of the Spirit is good), seeking to live by (obedience to) it only brings death, as the apostle Paul taught (Romans 7:10-11) - THIS IS WHY THE LAW AND THE MOSAIC COVENANT WITH IT WAS ABOLISHED IN THE FLESH OF CHRIST.

In Daniel 9:24b we are told that the process by which the Old Covenant's redemption would be gained was going to be changed in the near future to only one sacrifice being required and that was the sacrifice of God's only Begotten Son on the cross.

Daniel 9:24, from the first word to the last word in the verse, says nothing about "the old covenant's redemption". It speaks only of man's coming redemption through Christ's atonement. You're making up your own doctrines about something so Holy, and corrupting the Holy truth of God's promise.

He did not come to alter a tit or a tat in the recorded Laws given, but you are claiming that He created a brand-New Covenant when all that happened on the cross was that the process by which people can now gain their redemption has been changed.

Why would the shadow or pattern need to have been altered when it was going to be abolished in the flesh of Christ? Jesus fulfilled both the law AND God's promise that He would make a brand new covenant with Israel which would not be like the covenant of law given through Moses - and when Jesus established that new covenant in His OWN BLOOD, the law was abolished forever in His flesh when He died.

The problem is the number of understandings that are prevalent today, means that there is no unity in the Body of Christ.

In all that Jesus taught He always spoke of "refreshing" the existing Laws.

The unity is in the Spirit of Christ, and of the Spirit my friend. It's not produced by man:

4 There is one body and one Spirit, even as you are called in one hope of your calling,
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 one God and Father of all, who is above all and through all and in you all.

Your version of the gospel is pseudo-Christian my friend. Humble yourself before God and ask Him to bring you to a proper understanding of the scriptures, asking in Jesus name. You will not experience the unity of the Spirit and in the Spirit with the saints in the body of Christ while you do not adhere to sound doctrine and push false doctrine instead.

 

[Jay Ross]

What is a "sign covenant"?

Seems like you have not carefully read Genesis 15. It is there for you to find.

Only the Lord Jesus Christ, the seed of Abraham, is the seed through whom all the nations of the earth are blessed. Your exaltation of all the descendants of Abraham to the same level of Christ is blasphemous and idolatrous.

Again, it seems that you do not understand how the descendants of Abraham scattered throughout the whole earth will become a blessing to all of the peoples of the earth.

How can a Christian not Bless those with whom he rubs shoulders with on a daily basis. Sadly, you have falsely misrepresented what I have posted by asserting that I have raised all the descendants to the same level as Christ. That is your bad and not mine and to claim that what I had posted was blasphemous and idolatrous is your construct to paint, what I had posted, in a bad light based on your private understanding of what Christ's purposes were during His first advent on the earth.

Today, I blessed a girl by encouraging her to follow God's purpose for her life by giving her cash so that she can travel to Paris to study. I blessed the girl by investing in her dream to study in Paris. By blessing this girl, have I elevated myself to the same level as Christ? It seems to me that you have limited the manner in how Christians can be a blessing to others in the world as we rub shoulders with them. You are presenting a pharisee's understanding IMHO.

False. The conclusion did not come in 70 A.D. It came when Christ shed His blood for sins and died in 30 A.D. The continued sacrifices which took place in the 40 years from then until 70 A.D are the overspreading of abominations mentioned in Daniel 9:27:

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. -- Daniel 9.

IMHO you are presenting a false conclusion by the above claim.

He never ONCE spoke of the "refreshing" of the laws:

If I apply a new coat of paint to a house, have I made the house brand new again or have I simply renewed the house so that it looks like it new again. That is the difference between "neos" and "kanineous."

"Neos" is understood to be New with respect to age, whereas, "kainos" is understood to be "fresh" with respect to its condition in the the entity has been made like new again.

Only once is "neos" loosely associated with the word "covenant" whereas "kainos" is found 42 times in the NT. and is found to be associated with the words like "covenant" "law", etc.

But then who am I or who are you to insist on a particular understanding of which covenant that Christ came to refresh by modifying the process by which redemption would be gained through that covenant.

We will have to beg to differ in our respective points of view.

Daniel 9:24, from the first word to the last word in the verse, says nothing about "the old covenant's redemption". It speaks only of man's coming redemption through Christ's atonement. You're making up your own doctrines about something so Holy, and corrupting the Holy truth of God's promise.

This is false. The start of this verse tells us that they have 490 years in which to gain their redemption for their sins before Christ was even born. As such, the "Older" form of the covenant was being pointed to in the first half of this verse. But your forthright righteousness in your private interpretation speaks volumes about your actual understanding.

Jesus is the Mediator of THE NEW COVENANT, not the "NEW" Mediator of "the old (Mosaic) Covenant, as you falsely assert. Daniel 9:24 - the entire verse - says absolutely NOTHING about a "redemption" of the Mosaic Covenant.

You have presented a false argument in that what you claim that I meant is not found in the words that I used in my post. You have wrongly assumed that I was referring to the "Old Mosaic covenant" whereas I was referring to the Salvation Covenant that has always be in play with God from the beginning of time.

Your version of the gospel is pseudo-Christian my friend. Humble yourself before God and ask Him to bring you to a proper understanding of the scriptures, asking in Jesus name. You will not experience the unity of the Spirit and in the Spirit with the saints in the body of Christ while you do not adhere to sound doctrine and push false doctrine instead.

Perhaps, it would be best if you applied the preaching given by you in the above quote was applied to what you believe is the truth.

I am comfortable with my relationship with God, however when your understanding to question it seems that you grow quite uncomfortable when challenged.

Goodbye