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Prophethood

Discussion in 'NonChristian Help Forum' started by Amy, Aug 29, 2007.

  1. Amy

    Amy New Member

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    Muhammad even disqualified himself as a true Prophet of God. - Sura 29:27 states clearly that, as far as Allah and the Qur'an are concerned, the only true prophets are those related to Isaac (Ishaq) or Jacob (Yaqoub); yet Muhammad, according to Muslim tradition, is related to Ishmael and not Isaac or Jacob. The real God (Yahweh) chose to establish His covenant with Abraham and Sarah's son Isaac, instead of with Ishmael, the son of the slave girl Hagar. This choice of Isaac by God is mentioned 5 times, beginning in Genesis 17:18-21. Yet, who did this false Islamic god, Allah adopt? Ishmael! In fact, an important Islamic holiday called Id-al-Adha celebrates the bogus near sacrifice of Ishmael by Abraham in Mecca. Even though there is nothing in scripture suggesting Abraham ever set foot in Arabia. Herein lies another prophetic truth! God rejected Ishmael and Esau because they were "wild donkeys" (Genesis 16:12) and men of the sword (Genesis 27:40).
     
  2. Faithful

    Faithful New Member

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    ammuslim YES Jesus was tempted but HE did not sin and remained pious. If you are talking about the Biblical Jesus, then I would have to respectfully disagree with you. Because first of all, according to the Bible, Satan’s temptation is a result of man’s evil desire, and Jesus was a man.James 1:13-15When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire he is dragged away and enticed.Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full -grown, gives birth to death.
    But Christ did not have the human bias to sin as all mankind did after Adams fall. His conception was immaculate. The word says, "Teach a child the way they should go when they are young and they will not depart from it."Christ was taught by the Lord God and he knew from whence he came and where he was going. How could he depart from the right way when he was before birth.As Christ and the apostles taught.Galations 5:18.But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.Before Christ was led away into the wilderness by the Holy Spirit he had just been baptized. He had Gods own words in his mouth. An believers being led by the Spirit, have the sword which the Spirit gives, which is the word of God. You need to know the whole truth. But the muslims who do not find Christ as messiah will never know till he returns and they mourn.
    Jesus pbuh not only was tempted by Satan, but he was also suffering when he was tempted according to Hebrews 2:17-18 Now you ask yourself a question, during those 40 days when Jesus was tempted, controlled by Satan in suffering, was he able to utter God’s words as revealed to him, or the revelation that he delivered during those days were Satan’s words?
    If Satan had caused Jesus to fall in any way, then why at the end is he still tempting him with the riches of the world to worship him? Christ clearly knew from whence he came and where he was going. He left his own glory and heaven to come to earth to die for us. And the devil thought somehow what he had was valuable enough to offer. When Christ returned to the Father, Satan had nothing left he owned. For all powers and princilalities now belonged to Christ. And he belongs to God as we do.If led by the Spirit we have the sword of the Spirit which is the word of God.Ephesians 6.
    Quote:I John 5:7 - For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. Apparently you are using the KJV of the Bible, but if you open the RSV, you wont find that verse.
    I was told by God to use the KJV for definition of the truth for teaching.but if you know the bible you know how it ends.2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 (King James Version) 10.And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11.And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12.That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.1 John 2:27 (King James Version) 27.But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.The word of God which is the sword the Spirit gives. We do not live by bread alone nor by muslims versions of the truth. The truth from God through Jesus Christ, resides within us. And they accused, as you do Christ of doing things by the power of darkness. And he warns them about not being forgive blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. There was no darkness in Jesus Christ, It took Satan in person to test him,., but he never fell in any way. Glory and praise to the Father the one true God who knows everything.
     
  3. Amy

    Amy New Member

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    Let alone Quran says itself in this verse:[39:4] If GOD wanted to have a son, He could have chosen whomever He willed from among His creations. Be He glorified; He is GOD, the One, the Supreme.
     
  4. Faithful

    Faithful New Member

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    (ammuslim;16442)
    Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.My intention was not to twist anything in your Bible, this is my own understanding, you may swallow it, or just leave it. James 1:13-15 says that any MAN was tempted by Satan, it is due to his own evil desires, now you don’t want to connect those verses to the temptation of Jesus who was a man, this is your own problem, but this is how I understand the plain English of your Bible.Now, the term Son of God as mentioned in the quotation you gave, does not mean God Himself. I don’t know how did you come up with this conclusion. Salamammuslim
    Read what God teaches.John 8:42 (King James Version)42.Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.God sent Christ from himself.John 17:1-3. 1.These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2.As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3.And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. Christ had power over all flesh including his own. Eternal life is knowing the only true God and Jesus Christ.17: 11.And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. I know how we are one as he and the Father are one. Clearly you do not.But is a mans desires born of something outside himself? The first Adam had no knowledge of good and evil, so how did he sin? Eve was lied to by the tempter. For God does not tempt anyone the tempter stands before God accusing people. Christ was born with the knowledge of right and wrong but not of the bias of it. And like Adam and Eve the choice was never removed.When you sin are you saying the heart takes control of your soul? And so you have no choice. Everyone would be committing adultery, stealing and pinching next doors cow in fact we would all be murdering each other so no one left. Because someone is capable of sin does not mean they do not have a choice about doing it. So Christ like us all had the choice but he did not have the inclination was not predisposed to it as we were. Because his conception was immaculate.[16They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 17Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. ]Colossians 1:15-17.Colossians 1:15-17 (King James Version) 9Genesis 1:26.) 15.Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16.For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17.And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.Colossians 2:9-10 (King James Version) 9.For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10.And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:If the fulness of the Godhead dwells in the body of Christ how can anything evil com from him.1 Peter 2:22 (King James Version) 22.Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: Isaiah 53:9 (King James Version)9.And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.Your ignorance is great about the truth of scripture. I can tell you how I have come up with the truth because God gave me a love of it in my heart.And the Spirit of truth is not given to anyone outside Christ and who do not obey him.You do not see the truth how we are all made one as Christ was one with God, but even today many do not have the wisdom yet in the Christian faith.Christ never said he was God but that he did says he was one with God and that like God he existed from the beginning before our creation.Do you or any man know who the Father, Son and Holy Spirit were before creation? Does any man know the true form of God who is a Spirit?He is not flesh but we see if we study the truth from God his way it is not the way of the world but the way of the Spirit. While, as you say ' am muslim' continues you will never have truth. 'Am Christs' is the only way to the truth and to know the true God.Faithful.[​IMG]
     
  5. Amy

    Amy New Member

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    In the Qur'an where Allah speaks, he refers to himself as "We", "Us", Our" over 100 times!... Showing again and again that God is not a single person, but several persons in one divine being: still they don't get a hint [​IMG]
     
  6. Ricky W

    Ricky W New Member

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    A'udzubillaahiminasysyaithonirrojiimBismillaahirrohmaanirrohiim(Amy)
    Muhammad even disqualified himself as a true Prophet of God. - Sura 29:27 states clearly that, as far as Allah and the Qur'an are concerned, the only true prophets are those related to Isaac (Ishaq) or Jacob (Yaqoub); yet Muhammad, according to Muslim tradition, is related to Ishmael and not Isaac or Jacob. The real God (Yahweh) chose to establish His covenant with Abraham and Sarah's son Isaac, instead of with Ishmael, the son of the slave girl Hagar. This choice of Isaac by God is mentioned 5 times, beginning in Genesis 17:18-21. Yet, who did this false Islamic god, Allah adopt? Ishmael! In fact, an important Islamic holiday called Id-al-Adha celebrates the bogus near sacrifice of Ishmael by Abraham in Mecca. Even though there is nothing in scripture suggesting Abraham ever set foot in Arabia. Herein lies another prophetic truth! God rejected Ishmael and Esau because they were "wild donkeys" (Genesis 16:12) and men of the sword (Genesis 27:40).
    Amy, are you trying justifying bible with the noble Quran ?If you really do that, is that mean you are accept Quran as a truth ?Have you forgot what you have advised on me ?Don't just picking up without read it the whole one, and my advise to you too, i think you should do the same thing before giving advise to others.Best regards, Ricky WWallahu a'lam
     
  7. Faithful

    Faithful New Member

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    (Ricky W;16479)
    A'udzubillaahiminasysyaithonirrojiimBismillaahirrohmaanirrohiimAmy, are you trying justifying bible with the noble Quran ?If you really do that, is that mean you are accept Quran as a truth ?Have you forgot what you have advised on me ?Don't just picking up without read it the whole one, and my advise to you too, i think you should do the same thing before giving advise to others.Best regards, Ricky WWallahu a'lam
    Hi Ricky,I think she is saying, if you do not understand your own Quran and obey it, why should the bible be any different for you.Faithful.
     
  8. Amy

    Amy New Member

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    (Ricky W;16479)
    A'udzubillaahiminasysyaithonirrojiimBismillaahirrohmaanirrohiimAmy, are you trying justifying bible with the noble Quran ?If you really do that, is that mean you are accept Quran as a truth ?Have you forgot what you have advised on me ?Don't just picking up without read it the whole one, and my advise to you too, i think you should do the same thing before giving advise to others.Best regards, Ricky WWallahu a'lam
    You don't need to advice me of what I myself adviced you off.I don't need to justify what God has said himself. I am just giving you referenseces of how God's words are edited and copied by false prophets to cultivate their false religions. As a muslim so to say you must believe in the Holy books and in those holy books God says clearly, nothing is to be added or changed from God's words and whosoever doeth it is a false prophet.
     
  9. Ricky W

    Ricky W New Member

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    A'udzubillaahiminasysyaithonirrojiimBismillaahirrohmaanirrohiim(Amy)
    In the Qur'an where Allah speaks, he refers to himself as "We", "Us", Our" over 100 times!... Showing again and again that God is not a single person, but several persons in one divine being: still they don't get a hint
    May i ask you, amy [​IMG] ?1. Have you ever found that event the Quran Allah speaks using word We, Us...etc a moslem considered God is more then 1 or more then 1 person in one divine being ?2. You already said to me, that you have learn Islam for 12 good years, what is Moslem scholar said about this kind of your statement ? I do believe you already know, because you already learn Islam for about 12 good year, event you are claim tobe up the average of moslem.Best regards,Ricky WWallahu a'lam.
     
  10. Ricky W

    Ricky W New Member

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    A'udzubillaahiminasysyaithonirrojiimBismillaahirrohmaanirrohiim(Amy)
    You don't need to advice me of what I myself adviced you off.I don't need to justify what God has said himself. I am just giving you referenseces of how God's words are edited and copied by false prophets to cultivate their false religions. As a muslim so to say you must believe in the Holy books and in those holy books God says clearly, nothing is to be added or changed from God's words and whosoever doeth it is a false prophet.
    May God guiding you through His right Path. And may you see by the end of day what you are talking to is right or not.And as I said before, you are advising me on how to read your bible, and the same thing, I think it's good for you to so [​IMG]. I'm just giving you the same advise, if you are not willing, then you are not seek the truth as you claim before. So, have you read the Quran carefully [​IMG] ? Ask God who create the universe to protect you from satan by the time you read all scriptures. Don't set your mind at the beginning that would make you not seing the real meaning is [​IMG]. Is itn't you are the one who telling me that ? And i do try to do your advise, but at the same time, can you also do the same thing ?You are picking just one verse that may correct your opinion according to your bible, at the same time you are ignore about the prophet mention in the Quran. You just picking only one from the Quran. There are hundred thousand prophet according Islamic Faith. Now i'm asking you, does Noah, Jonah, Loth, was a descent from Abraham ? Does they considered as prophet also ?Best regards,Ricky WWallahu a'lam.
     
  11. Ricky W

    Ricky W New Member

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    A'udzubillaahiminasysyaithonirrojiimBismillaahirrohmaanirrohiim(Faithful)
    Hi Ricky,I think she is saying, if you do not understand your own Quran and obey it, why should the bible be any different for you.Faithful.
    Thank you faithful for your kindly to explain to me what is amy up to.Faithful i need your opinion, does in the verse that Amy brought, mentioned that only from Abraham descent throught Isaac was the propethood.Al Ankabut(Spider)[29]:27. And We gave (Abraham) Isaac and Jacob, and ordained among his progeny Prophethood and Revelation, and We granted him his reward in this life; and he will be in the Hereafter of the Righteous.Now take a look what she gave on us, where she said according to Allah(God) and the Quran which is that is not what it mean.- Sura 29:27 states clearly that, as far as Allah and the Qur'an are concerned, the only true prophets are those related to Isaac (Ishaq) or Jacob (Yaqoub); yet Muhammad, according to Muslim tradition, is related to Ishmael and not Isaac or Jacob.Now take a look what Allah and Quran said about Muhammad(pbuh)Al Ahzab:(The Allies)[33]:40. Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things.Wallahu a'lam.
     
  12. Amy

    Amy New Member

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    (Ricky W;16483)
    A'udzubillaahiminasysyaithonirrojiimBismillaahirrohmaanirrohiimMay God guiding you through His right Path. And may you see by the end of day what you are talking to is right or not.And as I said before, you are advising me on how to read your bible, and the same thing, I think it's good for you to so [​IMG]. I'm just giving you the same advise, if you are not willing, then you are not seek the truth as you claim before. So, have you read the Quran carefully [​IMG] ? Ask God who create the universe to protect you from satan by the time you read all scriptures. Don't set your mind at the beginning that would make you not seing the real meaning is [​IMG]. Is itn't you are the one who telling me that ? And i do try to do your advise, but at the same time, can you also do the same thing ?You are picking just one verse that may correct your opinion according to your bible, at the same time you are ignore about the prophet mention in the Quran. You just picking only one from the Quran. There are hundred thousand prophet according Islamic Faith. Now i'm asking you, does Noah, Jonah, Loth, was a descent from Abraham ? Does they considered as prophet also ?Best regards,Ricky WWallahu a'lam.
    Your useless discussion is waste of my time, in short you are being ignored. Stay tuned for more on Islam Vs Christianity !
     
  13. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (ammuslim)
    (Scripture)
    I John 5:7 - For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
    Apparently you are using the KJV of the Bible, but if you open the RSV, you wont find that verse.Of course, I am using a KJV...I will not leave what YHWH says. In fact The KJV has no copyright. It's not copyrighted by men, It is Copyright© by God. Who (mankind) in the world wants to copyright the truth. No one. The world hates truth. God is the author of the truth.(ammuslim)
    (Scriptures)
    John 10:30 - I and my Father are one.John 1:1-3 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
    well, the above 2 verses are open to a different interpretations, but I don’t intend to argue with you about this matter, you believe that Jesus is God, and that he is one with other personalities of the Trinity, its fine, but I don’t and I’ve got my reasons.SalamammuslimThank you for the replies. And yes Yahshua is God, but He will never claim to be YHWH...which is God the Father. Everybody decides which boat to take. It's Free Will.Lovest thou in Christ Jesus (Yahshua) our Lord and Saviour.
     
  14. ammuslim

    ammuslim New Member

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    Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.
    But Christ did not have the human bias to sin as all mankind did after Adams fall. His conception was immaculate. The word says, "Teach a child the way they should go when they are young and they will not depart from it."
    We also consider Jesus pbuh as sinless, but we also consider all other Prophets of God to be sinless, in the sense that they’ve never disobeyed God’s commandments INTENTIONALLY. They might have committed some mistakes, but they were not intended to be as a sign of disobedience to their Creator. So boasting about Jesus pbuh sinless nature, does not in anyway conflict with the Islamic beliefs, Muhammad pbuh too was a sinless in that sense, that he have never disobeyed God’s order intentionally, but as a human being he did make mistakes and was corrected by God Almighty.
    Before Christ was led away into the wilderness by the Holy Spirit he had just been baptized. He had Gods own words in his mouth. An believers being led by the Spirit, have the sword which the Spirit gives, which is the word of God. You need to know the whole truth. But the muslims who do not find Christ as messiah will never know till he returns and they mourn.
    Ok here is another topic, baptism; do you know exactly, what is the purpose of baptism as recorded in your Bible? Ok let me share with you my own understanding. Open Mark 1:4 and you will read: "A baptism in token of repentance, for the forgiveness of sins" (Mark 1:4). That is the purpose of baptism, for the forgiveness of sins. Now ask yourself a simple question, why John the Baptist got Jesus pbuh baptized if he was sinless? Here is the quotation for the Bible for your reference. John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. (Mark 1:4)Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John. But John tried to deter him, saying, "I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?" Jesus replied, "Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness." Then John consented. (Matthew 3:13-15)As you can see, Jesus himself acknowledged that he needed to be baptized in order to fulfill ALL RIGHTEOUSNESS, for if he was really sinless, then he should have baptized John instead of him getting baptized.
    If Satan had caused Jesus to fall in any way, then why at the end is he still tempting him with the riches of the world to worship him? Christ clearly knew from whence he came and where he was going. He left his own glory and heaven to come to earth to die for us. And the devil thought somehow what he had was valuable enough to offer. When Christ returned to the Father, Satan had nothing left he owned. For all powers and princilalities now belonged to Christ. And he belongs to God as we do.
    These are very nice words shows your sincere belief in Jesus as one with God, but words sometimes does not really prove the case, I’ve great respect for Jesus pbuh, I accept him as the only Messiah, I believe in his many miracles etc.. but I don’t consider him to be God or part of God, I do believe that he was very important to come to the Israelites to reform that nation. But to boast that he is the only sinless man ever lived, is to go straight against your own book of authority i.e. the Bible. Because according to the Bible and my understanding, there are plenty of other people who were declared by God as blameless or TAMIYM. Genesis 17:1 When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to him and said, "I am God Almighty; walk before me and be blameless (tamiym).Deuteronomy 18:13You must be blameless (tamiym) before the LORD your God.Psalms 119:1 Blessed are they whose ways are blameless (tamiym), who walk according to the law of the LORD.Proverbs 2:21 For the upright will live in the land, and the blameless (tamiym) will remain in it;Proverbs 11:5The righteousness of the blameless (tamiym) makes a straight way for them, but the wicked are brought down by their own wickedness.Ezekiel 28:15You were blameless (tamiym) in your ways from the day you were created till wickedness was found in you.Now if you know the meaning of TAMIYM, you will realize that it means, complete, whole, entire, sound, healthful,wholesome, unimpaired, innocent, having integrity, and what is complete or ENTIRELY in accord with truth and fact. [url="http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/words/8/1145210220-9425.html]http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/wor...10220-9425.html[/url] If this word blameless, doesn’t convince you, then you have to check up the next verse which translated TAMIM as PERFECT, and in my opinion, a perfect person is he who does not have any sin, because this word was used to describe the WORK OF GOD, but amazingly, it was also used to describe other human beings. Deuteronomy 32:4He is the Rock, his works are perfect (tamiym), and all his ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he.Job 2:3 Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless (tam) and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason."Job 8:20 "Surely God does not reject a blameless (tam) man or strengthen the hands of evildoers.Psalms 37:3737 Consider the blameless (tam), observe the upright; there is a future for the man of peace.The word TAM means, PERFECT, COMPLETE, ONE WHO LACKS NOTHING IN PHYSICAL STRENGTH, BEAUTY ETC,WHOLESOME,QUITE SORT OF PERSON, MORALLY INNOCENT, HAVING INTEGRITY, ETHICALLY PURE, [url="http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/words/8/1145210668-6583.html]http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/wor...10668-6583.html[/url] So as you can see, even according to the Bible itself Jesus was not the only sinless person. Salamammuslim
     
  15. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (Faithful)
    But Christ did not have the human bias to sin as all mankind did after Adams fall. His conception was immaculate. The word says, "Teach a child the way they should go when they are young and they will not depart from it."
    We also consider Jesus pbuh as sinless, but we also consider all other Prophets of God to be sinless, in the sense that they’ve never disobeyed God’s commandments INTENTIONALLY. They might have committed some mistakes, but they were not intended to be as a sign of disobedience to their Creator. So boasting about Jesus pbuh sinless nature, does not in anyway conflict with the Islamic beliefs, Muhammad pbuh too was a sinless in that sense, that he have never disobeyed God’s order intentionally, but as a human being he did make mistakes and was corrected by God Almighty.Actually Yahshua never sinned. He never once broke His Father's Commandment...In fact he fulfilled scriptures...and the prohesy in His flesh time is fulfilled. Actually ammuslim, all of God's prophet still sinned whether they did it intentionally or not.Romans 3:23 - For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.(ammuslim)
    (Faithful)
    If Satan had caused Jesus to fall in any way, then why at the end is he still tempting him with the riches of the world to worship him? Christ clearly knew from whence he came and where he was going. He left his own glory and heaven to come to earth to die for us. And the devil thought somehow what he had was valuable enough to offer. When Christ returned to the Father, Satan had nothing left he owned. For all powers and princilalities now belonged to Christ. And he belongs to God as we do.
    These are very nice words shows your sincere belief in Jesus as one with God, but words sometimes does not really prove the case, I’ve great respect for Jesus pbuh, I accept him as the only Messiah, I believe in his many miracles etc.. but I don’t consider him to be God or part of God, I do believe that he was very important to come to the Israelites to reform that nation.But to boast that he is the only sinless man ever lived, is to go straight against your own book of authority i.e. the Bible. Because according to the Bible and my understanding, there are plenty of other people who were declared by God as blameless or TAMIYM.The Word of God says that only 1 person that didn't sin and that is the Word of God. (Yahshua) Adam was called a son of God (Luke 3:38) but he still sinned. If you say that other people besides the Son of God never sinned. You are making the Living God a liar.I John 1:8 - If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.I John 1:10 - If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.And for your understanding. Mankind can never say the truth witout Him. And we can't gain knowledge by our own understanding.Proverbs 3:5 - Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.Lovest thou in Christ Jesus (Yahshua) our Lord and Saviour.
     
  16. Ricky W

    Ricky W New Member

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    A'udzubillaahiminasysyaithonirrojiimBismillaahirrohmaanirrohiim(Amy)
    Your useless discussion is waste of my time, in short you are being ignored. Stay tuned for more on Islam Vs Christianity !
    Oh come on amy, don't be like that. Forgive me if I make you was sulky.Did I already response the verse that you are showed to us ?Wallahu a'lam
     
  17. Ricky W

    Ricky W New Member

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    (thesuperjag;16525)
    Actually Yahshua never sinned. He never once broke His Father's Commandment...In fact he fulfilled scriptures...and the prohesy in His flesh time is fulfilled. Actually ammuslim, all of God's prophet still sinned whether they did it intentionally or not.Romans 3:23 - For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.The Word of God says that only 1 person that didn't sin and that is the Word of God. (Yahshua) Adam was called a son of God (Luke 3:38) but he still sinned. If you say that other people besides the Son of God never sinned. You are making the Living God a liar.I John 1:8 - If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.I John 1:10 - If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.And for your understanding. Mankind can never say the truth witout Him. And we can't gain knowledge by our own understanding.Proverbs 3:5 - Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.Lovest thou in Christ Jesus (Yahshua) our Lord and Saviour.
    But is itn't what ammuslim has shown was using the word in the bible ?
     
  18. Faithful

    Faithful New Member

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    Quote:But Christ did not have the human bias to sin as all mankind did after Adams fall. His conception was immaculate. The word says, "Teach a child the way they should go when they are young and they will not depart from it." We also consider Jesus pbuh as sinless, but we also consider all other Prophets of God to be sinless, in the sense that they’ve never disobeyed God’s commandments INTENTIONALLY. They might have committed some mistakes, but they were not intended to be as a sign of disobedience to their Creator. So boasting about Jesus pbuh sinless nature, does not in anyway conflict with the Islamic beliefs, Muhammad pbuh too was a sinless in that sense, that he have never disobeyed God’s order intentionally, but as a human being he did make mistakes and was corrected by God Almighty.
    Christ never disobeyed God intentionally or any other wise. He was sinless in every sense of the word. The prophets like Abraham had their faith accounted to them as righteousness but with Christ God clearly dealt with sin which he simply overlooked in the past. This is the difference between the truth and error. Jesus Christ had no sin and he had died as the sacrifice for those who had.

    Quote:faithful.Before Christ was led away into the wilderness by the Holy Spirit he had just been baptized. He had Gods own words in his mouth. An believers being led by the Spirit, have the sword which the Spirit gives, which is the word of God. You need to know the whole truth. But the muslims who do not find Christ as messiah will never know till he returns and they mourn.
    Ok here is another topic, baptism; do you know exactly, what is the purpose of baptism as recorded in your Bible? Ok let me share with you my own understanding. Open Mark 1:4 and you will read: "A baptism in token of repentance, for the forgiveness of sins" (Mark 1:4). That is the purpose of baptism, for the forgiveness of sins. Now ask yourself a simple question, why John the Baptist got Jesus pbuh baptized if he was sinless? Here is the quotation for the Bible for your reference. John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. (Mark 1:4)He preached the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. He did not give remission of sins but he said turn away from your sins showing this by baptism ready for remission.Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John. But John tried to deter him, saying, "I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?" Jesus replied, "Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness." Then John consented. (Matthew 3:13-15)As you can see, Jesus himself acknowledged that he needed to be baptized in order to fulfill ALL RIGHTEOUSNESS, for if he was really sinless, then he should have baptized John instead of him getting baptized. You do not understand righteousness nor this scripture. Let us look at what is being said. John knew that Jesus did not need baptizing for remission of sin,but he says, "I need to be baptized by you" we see John taught,MATTHEW 3: 2,6 & 11-14.2.And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.6.And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.11.I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: 12.Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire. 13.Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. 14.But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? John was already filled with the Holy Spirit before birth.Luke 1:15.For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. Johns baptism was about repentance and turning away ready for the true baptism of the Holy Spirit and fire. This baptism would be from Jesus Christ.Acts 11:15-18. 15.And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. 16.Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. 17.Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? 18.When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life. Acts 19:2-5 (King James Version) 2.He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. 3.And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. 4.Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5.When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.The baptism of Jesus marks the start of his Ministry. John calling them to the baptism of repentance. Jesus had no sin to repent of but by his submission to baptism he showed his identification with sinful humanity. The Spirit coming down on him and God speaking from heaven, "This is my dear Son in whom I am well pleased' shows Gods approval of that Ministry and acknowledgement of Christ being his Son. Christ identifying himself with man and God identifying him as his Son.Ammuslim, will carry on in two posts so not too long.[​IMG]
     
  19. Faithful

    Faithful New Member

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    Quote:Faithful.If Satan had caused Jesus to fall in any way, then why at the end is he still tempting him with the riches of the world to worship him? Christ clearly knew from whence he came and where he was going. He left his own glory and heaven to come to earth to die for us. And the devil thought somehow what he had was valuable enough to offer. When Christ returned to the Father, Satan had nothing left he owned. For all powers and princilalities
    now belonged to Christ. And he belongs to God as we do. These are very nice words shows your sincere belief in Jesus as one with God, but words sometimes does not really prove the case, I’ve great respect for Jesus pbuh, I accept him as the only Messiah, I believe in his many miracles etc.. but I don’t consider him to be God or part of God, I do believe that he was very important to come to the Israelites to reform that nation. But to boast that he is the only sinless man ever lived, is to go straight against your own book of authority i.e. the Bible. Because according to the Bible and my understanding, there are plenty of other people who were declared by God as blameless or TAMIYM. Genesis 17:1 When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to him and said, "I am God Almighty; walk before me and be blameless (tamiym).Deuteronomy 18:13You must be blameless (tamiym) before the LORD your God.Psalms 119:1 Blessed are they whose ways are blameless (tamiym), who walk according to the law of the LORD.Proverbs 2:21For the upright will live in the land, and the blameless (tamiym) will remain in it;Proverbs 11:5The righteousness of the blameless (tamiym) makes a straight way for them, but the wicked are brought down by their own wickedness.Ezekiel 28:15You were blameless (tamiym) in your ways from the day you were created till wickedness was found in you.Now if you know the meaning of TAMIYM, you will realize that it means, complete, whole, entire, sound, healthful,wholesome, unimpaired, innocent, having integrity, and what is complete or ENTIRELY in accord with truth and fact. http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_d...0220-9425.html Genesis 15:6.6.And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness. Romans 4:66.Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,Psalm 32:1-2. 1.Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered. 2.Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile. Galatians 3:6 (King James Version) 6.Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.James 2:23 (King James Version)23.And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.Roman 3:5-31. Read through these.Isaiah 54:17.No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.The righteousness of God is not something which can be earned since all men but Christ have fallen short and sinned against him. Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were all before the law came. The promises God made through the seed of Isaac was not based on the law or on them obeying the law. It was an eternal covenant made on Gods Choice and will. Righteousness was accounted to Abraham because of his faith. God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth on him should not perish but have eternal life. This is brought about die to him being the perfect sacrifice without blemish (sin as law required) dying in their place. There was no guile found in his mouth so Christ never told a lie and as speaking the truth when he taught these things. Furthermore the Lord God said through the prophet Moses.Deuteronomy 18:18.I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19.And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.Christ spoke Gods own words these were his teachings not mans. See also what Christ says about being one with God. John 17:11.And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. As I said previously alot of christians do not understand how God the Father is one with us as he was with his Son.The word of God is clear and the apostles understood this true. How are we all one with God as Jesus was?
    If this word blameless, doesn’t convince you, then you have to check up the next verse which translated TAMIM as PERFECT, and in my opinion, a perfect person is he who does not have any sin, because this word was used to describe the WORK OF GOD, but amazingly, it was also used to describe other human beings. Deuteronomy 32:4He is the Rock, his works are perfect (tamiym), and all his ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he.Job 2:3 Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless (tam) and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason."Job 8:20"Surely God does not reject a blameless (tam) man or strengthen the hands of evildoers.Psalms 37:3737 Consider the blameless (tam), observe the upright; there is a future for the man of peace.The word TAM means, PERFECT, COMPLETE, ONE WHO LACKS NOTHING IN PHYSICAL STRENGTH, BEAUTY ETC,WHOLESOME,QUITE SORT OF PERSON, MORALLY INNOCENT, HAVING INTEGRITY, ETHICALLY PURE, http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_d...0668-6583.html So as you can see, even according to the Bible itself Jesus was not the only sinless person.
    Isaiah 53 (King James Version)King James Version (KJV)Public Domain Isaiah 53 1.Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? 2.For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. 3.He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. 4.Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. 5.But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. 6.All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. 7.He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. 8.He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken. 9.And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth. 10.Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand. 11.He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. 12.Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.To be blameless ( Tamiyn) does not mean sinless. Since blameless is associated with blame.To be accounted as blameless one must first be associated with blame.The Hebrew for righteousness is tseh-dek
    Righteousness:The Hebrew word for righteousness is tseh'-dek, tzedek, Gesenius's Strong's Concordance:6664—righteous, integrity, equity, justice, straightness. The root of tseh'-dek is tsaw-dak', Gesenius's Strong:6663—upright, just, straight, innocent, true, sincere. It is best understood as the product of upright, moral action in accordance with some form of divine plan.
    Jesus is the only man born without the bias of sin and whos conception was of the Holy Spirit.So to believe he is the only sinless man is not to go against the bible but to believe the truth of the bible for the prophets were not referrigng to many born this way but rather to the one Jesus Christ. We see with every covenant it is to show obedience to God to obey.Isaiah 6:5-7. 5.Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts. 6.Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar: 7.And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged. Isaiah 7:14-15. 14.Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. 15.Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good. Before Christ was born God had already decided he would know to refuse the evil and choose the good.Immanuel means God is with us.Your reply was written for you and is as you can see full of holes. For the word of God teaches us why Jesus is sinless but also why he alone is the true Son of God who has not righteous imputeth but the word of God full of truth and grace. He obeyed the law to the full. Who can prove he sinned?Christ was born of the will of God and his righteousness foretold before he came.
     
  20. tim bennett

    tim bennett New Member

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    just trying to understand why a muslim, espousing his ideas, would come into a christian room. are they trying to convert? they say they are trying to learn? if i do not want want to play golf i do not take golf lessons. so bless these individuals, so that the word of the lord jesus christ will pierce their hearts. for our god=JESUS CHRIST=loves those who do not love him=so we must do the same..AND YES I POSTED THAT RIGHT=JESUS IS GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!AND SIN IS SIN. i guess moses did not sin. nope he did. read the book of job=he even sinned= i would IMHO consider job a better man than Moses. god gave moses a lot of responsibility, but even moses was guilty of one of the worst sins=UNBELIEF. with all he saw and heard of god =HE DOUBTED. JESUS WAS SINLESS=and you can go to that passage in the book of job where job is described as perfect. one huge difference=JESUS IS GOD, AND CAME TO SAVE HIS FLOCK=ONLY GOD HAS THAT AUTHORITY=JESUS IS GOD!!!!!!the author also states later in the book of job that for job to consider himself sinless=well i will quote=job 8 :20=if i justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: if i say, that i am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse. ps=has anyone ever been in the chat room, it must be a very scary place? for i have never seen a soul in there! is there a reason for that?
     
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