Purity: Shema is the Backbone of OT AND NT, Agree?

[shturt678]

The Baptism in the Spirit is 'getting Christ.' To remain in faithful covenant is 'getting Christ.' To be in faithful covenant to Jesus and then thusly to God is 'having Christ.'

Maybe you could explain what 'getting Christ' means...oh waitaminute I KNOW I KNOW: realizing he is God, although the BIBLE never says it. Extra biblical revelation required, Floyd. You got that, I didn't.

Shows how dumb I AM. Ooooo. I just said "I am," blasphemy.

Thank you for caring again!

I thought you agreed that one needs to be "born again"?

Old memory lapse Jack

Brother Floyd, let's don't make it a habit of agreeing to agree too much - lol with you!

 

[nothead]

Thank you for caring again!

I thought you agreed that one needs to be "born again"?

Old memory lapse Jack

Brother Floyd, let's don't make it a habit of agreeing to agree too much - lol with you!

Being born again is the supernatural Baptism in the Holy Spirit. Many are not by event so much as faith over time, increasing faith without any supernatural pentecostal event.

Like a relationship, some are passionate with all the fireworks and some agape loyalty in the Germanic Lutheran sense...maybe the last coming into the sheep pen over the rail.

The upper room was ideal, but even the pentecostal experience seems trickled down compared to then IMO.

 

[shturt678]

Being born again is the supernatural Baptism in the Holy Spirit. Many are not by event so much as faith over time, increasing faith without any supernatural pentecostal event.

Like a relationship, some are passionate with all the fireworks and some agape loyalty in the Germanic Lutheran sense...maybe the last coming into the sheep pen over the rail.

The upper room was ideal, but even the pentecostal experience seems trickled down compared to then IMO.

Thank you for your response, and caring again!

One cannot help but agape Mr. Martin Luther - you don't hold anything against him do you?

I would encourage you to take another look at one's 'instant of faith' in light of Mk.1:15b & Matt.3:2.

Then look at undergoing "born anew" in light of Jn.3:5.

Old Jack's opinion

 

[nothead]

Thank you for your response, and caring again!

One cannot help but agape Mr. Martin Luther - you don't hold anything against him do you?

I would encourage you to take another look at one's 'instant of faith' in light of Mk.1:15b & Matt.3:2.

Then look at undergoing "born anew" in light of Jn.3:5.

Old Jack's opinion

THE WAY is the whole relationship of you to God, God to you over the lifespan of your life, not God's lifespan of course.

I guarantee you, this whole lifespan will be reviewed at the Judgement Seat.

So then you can tout the BEGINNING encounter with this God of yours, as a lover recounts his first encounters...with his mate.

But and yet this is the main problem with Lutheranism. They stopped at the first encounter and never went on. Everything stems back to the first kiss. And for the Lutheran this kiss was not even passionate, a dry one. Compared to a pentecostal.

And stops. This in my opinion realizes the Great Holocaust. OTHER THINGS became more important to both Catholic and German Lutheran.

 

[shturt678]

THE WAY is the whole relationship of you to God, God to you over the lifespan of your life, not God's lifespan of course.

I guarantee you, this whole lifespan will be reviewed at the Judgement Seat.

Thank you for our response and caring!

A little sooner than that, ie, all are forensically and secretly judged upon how their "faith" looked like from heaven's view at each one's passing waaay ahead of the Judgment Seat.



So then you can tout the BEGINNING encounter with this God of yours, as a lover recounts his first encounters...with his mate.

But and yet this is the main problem with Lutheranism. They stopped at the first encounter and never went on. Everything stems back to the first kiss. And for the Lutheran this kiss was not even passionate, a dry one. Compared to a pentecostal.

And stops. This in my opinion realizes the Great Holocaust. OTHER THINGS became more important to both Catholic and German Lutheran.

Wouild encourage you to look at Jn.3:5 again regarding undergoing a valid "born anew."

Old Jack

 

[nothead]

THE WAY is the whole relationship of you to God, God to you over the lifespan of your life, not God's lifespan of course.

I guarantee you, this whole lifespan will be reviewed at the Judgement Seat.

Thank you for our response and caring!

A little sooner than that, ie, all are forensically and secretly judged upon how their "faith" looked like from heaven's view at each one's passing waaay ahead of the Judgment Seat.



So then you can tout the BEGINNING encounter with this God of yours, as a lover recounts his first encounters...with his mate.

But and yet this is the main problem with Lutheranism. They stopped at the first encounter and never went on. Everything stems back to the first kiss. And for the Lutheran this kiss was not even passionate, a dry one. Compared to a pentecostal.

And stops. This in my opinion realizes the Great Holocaust. OTHER THINGS became more important to both Catholic and German Lutheran.

Wouild encourage you to look at Jn.3:5 again regarding undergoing a valid "born anew."

Old Jack









[SIZE=.75em]5 [/SIZE]Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

So then Jack, was the criminal on the cross born anew at the POINT OF PROMISE, or just a man with a single opportunity for grace available?

Also, your first statement may be a little of a stretch. You got scripture to support? What WOULD be the purpose for the Judgement even of believers then?

 

[shturt678]

5

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

So then Jack, was the criminal on the cross born anew at the POINT OF PROMISE, or just a man with a single opportunity for grace available?

Thank you for your resonse again!

Jesus was God and pronounced absolution, ie, criminal acquitted - baptism only follows that that have the time and water available.



Also, your first statement may be a little of a stretch. You got scripture to support? What WOULD be the purpose for the Judgement even of believers then?

Old Jack

btw who are those on Thrones today in Rev.20:4? All from Adam till the end immediately awake somewhere thus no one dies dies except at the 2nd death then again doesn't even die then wishing they would.

I'm old, ie, my number is coming up soon. I was late for my last appointment with the local Coroner - God rescheduled.

 

[nothead]

5

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

So then Jack, was the criminal on the cross born anew at the POINT OF PROMISE, or just a man with a single opportunity for grace available?

Thank you for your resonse again!

Jesus was God and pronounced absolution, ie, criminal acquitted - baptism only follows that that have the time and water available.



Also, your first statement may be a little of a stretch. You got scripture to support? What WOULD be the purpose for the Judgement even of believers then?

Old Jack

btw who are those on Thrones today in Rev.20:4? All from Adam till the end immediately awake somewhere thus no one dies dies except at the 2nd death then again doesn't even die then wishing they would.

I'm old, ie, my number is coming up soon. I was late for my last appointment with the local Coroner - God rescheduled.






Buut you said previously a man has to be reborn in spirit to receive the kingdom. Was Jesus saying this absolutely or ideally? Of course we know the Criminal didn't have too many options being nailed that there tree...

I am sorry to hear you may not be here too long. Praise God Heaven Comes Quickly to Some. Every breath is a blessing and every breath in Heaven the Glorious Joy brother I'm sorry I said I slapped you bald head. God knows I don't like doing this to the ones crossing over, amen. See you there soon. Old Jack, I know your name. From Hawaii.

When the end comes close I too will be more humble and gracious as you portray online. To all and to God when I see his awesome majesty at my Judgement.
Keep it up brother you are example to all, how to die in Covenant and in Grace. We are edified to have you with us.

 

[shturt678]

Buut you said previously a man has to be reborn in spirit to receive the kingdom. Was Jesus saying this absolutely or ideally? Of course we know the Criminal didn't have too many options being nailed that there tree...

Infants, those still in the womb, and those that never met the truth of the Word, we have no idea where they will end up forever and ever thus could end in heaven without undergoing a "born anew" experience. At one's instant of faith effected through repentance, all sins are dismissed, ie, thief on the Cross, and if one passes on prior to undergoing a "born anew" experience, in heaven. Infants that undergo a "born anew" experience along with adults are indwelled with the Holy Spirit and are in the Kingdom of God. Kind of involved sort of thing.



I am sorry to hear you may not be here too long. Praise God Heaven Comes Quickly to Some. Every breath is a blessing and every breath in Heaven the Glorious Joy brother I'm sorry I said I slapped you bald head. God knows I don't like doing this to the ones crossing over, amen. See you there soon. Old Jack, I know your name. From Hawaii.

Bought some more time with these new heart meds, ie, few years I think.

When the end comes close I too will be more humble and gracious as you portray online. To all and to God when I see his awesome majesty at my Judgement.
Keep it up brother you are example to all, how to die in Covenant and in Grace. We are edified to have you with us.

Amen! I'm a vet and lost all including my last ol' buddy recently and sort of the last of the Mohegans. Sorry, cannot be more nice to you, ie, we are sparring partners.

Old ducking and jabbing Jack

 

[nothead]

Infants, those still in the womb, and those that never met the truth of the Word, we have no idea where they will end up forever and ever thus could end in heaven without undergoing a "born anew" experience. At one's instant of faith effected through repentance, all sins are dismissed, ie, thief on the Cross, and if one passes on prior to undergoing a "born anew" experience, in heaven. Infants that undergo a "born anew" experience along with adults are indwelled with the Holy Spirit and are in the Kingdom of God. Kind of involved sort of thing.

I can agree here. All beings great and small. You don't exactly know HOW but God is good, whether His Sovereign Self, or immediate countenance to us.

I am sorry to hear you may not be here too long. Praise God Heaven Comes Quickly to Some. Every breath is a blessing and every breath in Heaven the Glorious Joy brother I'm sorry I said I slapped you bald head. God knows I don't like doing this to the ones crossing over, amen. See you there soon. Old Jack, I know your name. From Hawaii.

Bought some more time with these new heart meds, ie, few years I think.




ooo good. Maybe I can covert thee to True Monotheism in a few years THANX for the heads up.

When the end comes close I too will be more humble and gracious as you portray online. To all and to God when I see his awesome majesty at my Judgement.
Keep it up brother you are example to all, how to die in Covenant and in Grace. We are edified to have you with us.

Amen! I'm a vet and lost all including my last ol' buddy recently and sort of the last of the Mohegans. Sorry, cannot be more nice to you, ie, we are sparring partners.

Old ducking and jabbing Jack






Never married, Jack? Me thrice, twice to humans.


And still bound to the second human. By vow and by agape love, as imperfect as it is....

 

[shturt678]

I can agree here. All beings great and small. You don't exactly know HOW but God is good, whether His Sovereign Self, or immediate countenance to us.



ooo good. Maybe I can covert thee to True Monotheism in a few years THANX for the heads up.

Never married, Jack? Me thrice, twice to humans.


And still bound to the second human. By vow and by agape love, as imperfect as it is....

Thank you again for your response!

Married twice and was very close to both, ie, together to each sequentially of course for over 15 years and smoking, small cell cancer got them where quickly I didn't have a wife and worked through the shock. Have a girlfriend now for the past 12 years or so and due to her past smoking, chest pains and oxygen thus her caregiver, and she needs prayer and not doing so well. Praying our Lord will extend her life like he did me.

btw I have us Trinitarians in worse shape today than the Monotheist, mostly due to the 'hypergrace' of our nation during the past 100 years that i was born into - this is why it's so easy for me to get along with you my brother - let's not get too close as we're sparring partners and I'm know to throw low blows and false cracks.

Old Jack looking for my towel,

btw treasure that 2nd one, and the 3rd. I'm sure you do!

 

[nothead]

Thank you again for your response!

Married twice and was very close to both, ie, together to each sequentially of course for over 15 years and smoking, small cell cancer got them where quickly I didn't have a wife and worked through the shock. Have a girlfriend now for the past 12 years or so and due to her past smoking, chest pains and oxygen thus her caregiver, and she needs prayer and not doing so well. Praying our Lord will extend her life like he did me.

btw I have us Trinitarians in worse shape today than the Monotheist, mostly due to the 'hypergrace' of our nation during the past 100 years that i was born into - this is why it's so easy for me to get along with you my brother - let's not get too close as we're sparring partners and I'm know to throw low blows and false cracks.

Old Jack looking for my towel,

btw treasure that 2nd one, and the 3rd. I'm sure you do!

False cracks, huh. Never heard of that one. Seems to bring up certain other 'cracks,' but I want to keep it clean, as it were.

 

[shturt678]

False cracks, huh. Never heard of that one. Seems to bring up certain other 'cracks,' but I want to keep it clean, as it were.

Thank you for your response again!

When I 1st came to Hawaii drinking with some of the guys arguing over some idiotic subject, I must have been winning because all the sudden I was punched in the side of my head - lost that argument and almost lost my head, ie, later found out I was 'false cracked.'

What I do is a little pretentious at times, ie, pretend I'm stupid on a Biblical concept awaiting for the right opportuinity then bring the hammar down hard with Biblcial truth, ie, 'false crack.' (overkill), ie, 'bushwack')

Since you're a likeable Christian, eg, set you up with Deut.6:4 Jehovah is the one absolute God. That He requires agape with all the heart, all thy soul, and all thy strength. Then knowing and realizing you don't know what agape Biblically denotes in truth (not many do thus not condescending), and then adding the Trinity issue, you will lose the war, yet will allow you to win some battles - btw I lose also, however my boss, the Godman Jesus wins.

Old Jack

btw when you're at such a low paygrade as myself, I can be wrong in light of IITim.3:16 and my boss. the Godman Jesus won't be upset with me.

 

[Floyd]

The Law of Moses was given to the Hebrews not the Gentiles. Romans 2:14

We (Christians) are not under the Law we are under grace, or the Royal Law, or the Law of Christ, or the Law of liberty. (Romans 6:14, James 1:25, 2:8, Galatians 6:2)

The Shema speaks nothing against the doctrine of the Trinity.
Shalom

Edited by justaname, 24 April 2014 - 01:50 AM.


Yes!
Floyd.



[SIZE=26pt]God and godshttp://www.revelationsmessage.co.uk/God and gods.htm[/SIZE]


[SIZE=16pt]Many people when reading Scripture are confused by the above terms, especially in many of the Old Testament references. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Adding to the confusion are the many Groups/churches that deliberately teach that God (Elohim) is not made up of 3 parts; i.e. God the Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit; which is partially true in the sense that Elohim (Almighty, All Powerful, All Knowing) takes on the Forms that suit His Plans, at any Administration Purpose.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]The three mentioned above are of the same entity (El); therefore Divine.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]The following are scripture references often used by some people to try and make the opposite case. They often are not using more than one Bible, or do not have facility for Translation comparisons; although these days that is rare.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]In the worst cases, i.e. The Jehovah’s Witnesses, they have their own translation; although in their door to door work, they often carry a KJV. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Some popular Scripture references used to try to prove their erroneous teachings are the following:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]The erroneous definitions are not given, as they are very varied; but the definitions of the famous Dr. David Ginsburg (Jewish scholar, of Rabbinical training, who converted to Christ Jesus; and Dr. E. Bullinger) are; as their scholarship exceeds much that is available today. (Dr. Ginsburg worked for the British Museum and British Library for many years upon moving from Poland.)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]References that follow, are the ones frequently used to argue against the Compound Godhead. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Gen. 1:26; God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, to Our likeness”. This clearly refers to the Godhead, and not to angels, as the definite articles show. The same applies to Gen. 11:7.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Ex. 7:1; Moses is told that he “will be as God to Pharaoh”. He was thus empowered to compete (successfully) against Pharaoh and his sorcerers! This is considered to be a figure of Christ/God competing with Satan and his demons.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Ex. 15:15; refers to “dukes” or “chiefs” in human beings.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Ex. 32:8; refers to idolatry, in this case the “golden calf”.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]1Sam. 28:13; “elohims (gods) rising out of the earth”. In this example, Saul was again defying God, in consorting with “familiar spirits” or demonic entities; which Saul, and all Israel had been told not to do. See Duet. 18; and Saul’s lip service in v3 and 7! The term “elohims” in the Hebrew, without the definite article refers to any supernatural entity, but especially those of Satan and his servants! With the definite article it always refers to The All Powerful God, Elohim![/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]1Sam. 2:25; Jehovah=Elohim in Covenant relationship with Israel in this case; but can apply to any of His created beings.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Psm. 45:6-7; v7 “God=Elohim Creator; anointed=Christ”.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Psm. 82:1-6; “gods”=judges or mighty ones on earth, they will die as men.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Psm. 97:7-9; “Lord” (KJV)=Jehovah (Covenanted with Israel). Verses 7 and 9= idols![/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Psm. 136:2; “God”=Elohim, gods=elohim=earthly rulers, see 135:5.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]John 10:33-35; “God”=Theos Grk.=Elohim=Creator. In the New Testament means “Father as the revealed God”.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Gen. 3:5; “like God, knowing good and evil”[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Deut. 10:17; “God of gods”. El.= Elohim in all strength and power; omnipotent, Creator, knows all”.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]I John 5:7, and Eph. 2:18 are conclusively self-explanatory![/SIZE]

[SIZE=16pt]The major reference to The Godhead, is the very reference that the antagonists of the “three in one” use to try to prove their point! Moses spoke of this in Deuteronomy.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Deut. 6:4 is the definitive point to the whole argument.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]“Hear O Israel: Jehovah our God is One[/SIZE] Jehovah”!
[SIZE=16pt]The “antagonists” say that this statement proves One[/SIZE] not “three in One” is proven by the statement of Moses!
[SIZE=16pt]What in fact is being emphasised by the "One"[/SIZE] statement is that Jehovah is the One and only God!
[SIZE=16pt]When the Old Testament is viewed in the context[/SIZE] of the "Shema" position; Moses is giving the children of Israel the prayer to which they must resort frequently; to remind them of their "Golden calf" idolatry at the beginning of their freedom from Egypt. Also, the same prayer was to be referred to continually to try to avoid future idolatry!
[SIZE=16pt]Dr. David Ginsburg, comments:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Quote by Dr. David (Christian) Ginsburg; Hebrew and Greek scholar, Jewish academic and antiquities expert. For Encyclopaedic Ref. see: Dr. David Ginsburg:[/SIZE][SIZE=14pt] (Hebrew scholar, Jewish academic, Jewish language scholar for the British Library, and Museum.)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Deut. 6:4: (KJV) " Hear O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:"[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]The corrected to manuscript is: " Hear (observe, heed) O Israel: Jehovah our Elohim is one Jehovah:"[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]Ginsberg comment: "Hear " in the Hebrew text this word (sham'a) has the last letter majuscular (i.e. larger than the others) as also the last letter of the last word (echad), to emphasis "the first and great commandment" (Matt.22:33; Mark 12:29-30). These two letters taken together make (ed= "a witness", because God is a witness and "looketh on the heart" (1 Sam.16:7)."[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]One: "Hebrew (ehad= a compound unity ; i.e. one made up of others" ; Gen. 1:5; 2:11; 2:21; 2:24; 3:22 one of the Trinity (capital U "Us" ); 49:16; Num.13:23; Psm.34:20;"[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]These are some of the incidents of the use of (ehad) "compound unity"[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]"If it was intended to be understood as singular or unique, the Hebrew word is (yahid)".[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]So; the original hand written shows that God was pointing to "a witness", by the use of the majuscular, giving (ed=a witness).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14pt]A witness to what? To correct understanding of the given phrase; especially the compound word (ehad)! [/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]In the original Hebrew, the word translated “One” above is “ehad” which has the meaning “a compound unity”. The equivalent in Latin is “unus”. So; even at that early stage the revealing of the Godhead, the hints in Genesis were being confirmed! [/SIZE]
[SIZE=16pt]Despite this firm Scriptural and Holy Spirit evidence, most will not change their minds, and accept the truth![/SIZE]