The Bible says that God created wicked people for punishment, so you may be onto something.....sounds mean and unfair , doesn’t it? If there “IS” a God, and I believe there is one, chances are he’s a lot smarter than you and I and knows a lot of stuff we don’t understand.....I bet He has good reasons for doing what He Does, and He sure as Hell does not need our approval.....at the very least, the God I know is one heckuva nice Guy......I’m gonna trust that He knows what He is doing....where were “ you” the day he hung the planets? And you have the nerve to be God’s Critic?
Question on creation and judgement
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The Bible says that God created wicked people for punishment, so you may be onto something.....sounds mean and unfair , doesn’t it? If there “IS” a God, and I believe there is one, chances are he’s a lot smarter than you and I and knows a lot of stuff we don’t understand.....I bet He has good reasons for doing what He Does, and He sure as Hell does not need our approval.....at the very least, the God I know is one heckuva nice Guy......I’m gonna trust that He knows what He is doing....where were “ you” the day he hung the planets? And you have the nerve to be God’s Critic?
I wouldn’t say I am questioning his ways, because we don’t know them. You can only be a critic of something you know or have witnessed. I don’t know why God does what he does. I am, however, criticizing current explanations of this question.
The only criticizing I’m doing is current explanations of this question. Whatever it ends up being, I’ll buy it. I’m happy with the “we don’t know” answer. But any and all explanations I have heard on this topic seem to fall short
He made the people that will trust him and made the people that won’t.
He may have “ made” the people , but Trust is one thing than can’t be manufactured—- Forcing or making Faith nullifies that Faith going out the gate....it’s like love.....you can’t “ make” somebody love you....you can make them “ act” like they love you ....real love must come the heart—- just like Trust and/or Faith.....
He may have “ made” the people , but Trust is one thing than can’t be manufactured—- Forcing or making Faith nullifies that Faith going out the gate....it’s like love.....you can’t “ make” somebody love you....you can make them “ act” like they love you ....real love must come the heart—- just like Trust and/or Faith.....
Do you believe God did not know who would trust him when he made them? Did he willfully create a person that would not trust him?
No.
(In brief)
*Out of the Waters (mist, clouds), God “created” what He called the Earth.
What God called the Earth is Dry Land.
*Out of the Earth, God “created”/formed by His hand...a Form. That Form He called a “man”. (We learn that form is called a Body).
*(Some where there is a mystery. Because Body’s Have each their own SEED.
But Scripture says it in this way;
God Gave Every SEED, “its” OWN Body. From woman’s seed, and fertilization of the woman’s seed by a man’s seed, a body begins form-ING by the hand of God, in a temporary chamber, sac, water, placenta, temporarily in the womb of a woman. Body being created. Body comes forth from the womb, receives Gods breath of Life, disconnected from placenta, Individual body of man-Kind of thing, made alive, temporary placenta comes forth from the womb, discarded, rots.)
* Once the Body was/is Formed, (“created”);God “made”, the Formed man, ALIVE, BY, “making” it (the formed body) receive, Gods Breath OF LIFE.
(Via A SOUL).
* Thus...the Result...
*Man-KIND of thing:
~ created out of it’s intended Habitat, Earth.
~ Mankind of thing, has the same minerals, nutrients, etc., that are IN Earth.
~ Man made alive, via soul, Gods Breath of Life.
~ Man has alive, body functions, hears, sees, tastes, touch/feels, smells, its own life is its Blood. It’s blood keeps its body living.
~ The elements OF its habitat Keeps the Body living. (Eating out of Earth)
* Life (blood) of a mans body, belongs to the man.
* All souls, and Life in a soul (Gods breath), belong to God.
* Life of all mans body’s (blood), Shall “physically” Die.
* Blood, dies, (when heart stops pumping the Blood) through the body.
* Body, dies, rots, returns to the earth, from whence it came.
* Soul, (alive with Gods breath), departs, the dying body.
~ Living souls, GO/ (sent /taken) to be “WITH” God or “WITHOUT” God, (effected BY Gods Power).
* WHEN, a living soul departs a dying/dead body, is Gods design.
* WHERE, a departed “living soul” GOES, is “dependent” upon...
* WHAT, the Life of the man (living body), freely Chose to Believe.
* Heard and Believed IN God...or Heard and Did NOT Believe IN God.
From SEED, to created body’s, created out of the Earth, made alive by Gods Breath of Life. Not sent to Earth, rather are created out of the Earth.
The Earth our Habit. Created out of our Habit, and our Habit, sustains the life OF the body.
Next...HOW TO SUSTAIN the Life of the soul, that is IN a body?
Glory to God,
Taken
This isn’t easy to answer. If you have not seen God’s divine plan it’ll be hard to understand. Let me say this, it might help. It is written before the foundation of the world Christ was foreordained to Calvary and die. What that shows us that before God created man his plan was to redeem him through Christ. Why? He has determined to created man in his image through Christ. In Genesis the Father said to the Son let us create man in our image. Then he created Adam. It is also written the last shall be first and the first last. Adam was after the Lord’s statement making him the last so he came first. Then Christ came to makes us in the image of God. The Father was designed to create a kingdom in his image. He set two paths for man to take. If you choose the path to destruction you pay the price. If you choose righteousness you are created in his image. Ask God to give you understanding.
He didn’t bring people into existence, ONLY to have them burn for eternity.
He brought people into existence TO HAVE “living things” TO LOVE, raise, nurture, guide.............in a HOPE..............such “living things”, WILL freely choose to LOVE HIM IN RETURN.
(Sort of like, “SOME” people who procreate “living things” (babes), to LOVE, raise, nurture, guide...........in a HOPE.............such “living things”, WILL freely choose to LOVE “them”.)
LOVE, is at its core...A feeling toward another.
LOVE, is expressed...BY “doing” what is “right/good” for the other, (regardless of the consequences)
Meaning...DOING what is “right/good”...is not always received by the “other”, as “WHAT” they want. (For a basic example, kids may WANT to joy ride, drink beer, party with their friends. A parent says NO. The “consequence” is the kid gets mad, shouts at the parent, accuses of mean, has a fit, pouts, bad mouths parents to friends, Blame parents, blah, blah. The DOING of the parent, the parent takes the backlash, BUT has effectively SHOWN their LOVE, despite the kids backlash.)
SAME happens with God. Directing men. Men want to DO other choices. They DO what they Want. Do NOT like the consequences of “their choices”...Blame God, for not FORCING them, from Making “their own choices”.
Parents of little children...DO Forcing, Restricting....”learning stage”
Adult men...(SOME) Are (TAUGHT) but not FORCED by God.....”should have learned”
^ Revealing the Importance...of Parents role, “teaching little children”, BEFORE they become adults, and sent out into a World, Knowing HOW TO MAKE, beneficial Choices, and not BE TRICKED, by evil spirits and wicked men.
^ THE TEACHING...all hangs on Good, Right, Truth. IF ones KNOWS IT, they benefit. IF one does NOT know it...they become a Target, of evil and wickedness.
A little child, quickly learns...eating food keeps their body alive.
The mystery to a child, is they do not YET KNOW, they have to power of Freewill “CHOOSING” to KEEP the Living soul IN THEIR BODY....ALIVE forever.
The soul belongs to God. The Life IN the soul belongs to God (Gods breath).
The growing, learning, of a child, raised by the Parent, IS the Parents duty, the Caretaker of the growing child, to TEACH them; Gods ORDER and WAY, of HOW TO... KEEP the Life of God, IN their living soul.........FOREVER.
BECAUSE....a time will come....their BODY SHALL DIE. And WHILE their BODY IS ALIVE, IS the TIME for THAT BODY, to decide, “IF” they “WANT” their living soul to BE “ALIVE” forever.......WITH GOD........and “IF” NOT, what WILL become of that “LIVING SOUL”.
Continued...on to your point of eternal burning in hell OR?
Continued: A living soul, of a manKIND of thing eternal burning in Hell? No.
Remember...Body’s die, return to DUST.
Living souls IN a body, depart a DEAD BODY.
Living souls, from the beginning of manKIND, have and will continue to DEPART their Dead body’s.
Dead Body’s rot, return to dust of the Earth.
Living body’s CHOOSE, where their departed LIVING souls SHALL GO...
* WITH God? A departed living soul, GOES (is escorted by a servant of God, ie a holy angel) to be with God, in His Heavenly Kingdom.
* WITHOUT God? A departed living soul, GOES (is sent, by Gods Power), to be separated From God, in Hell.
*WHAT is IN Gods Heavenly Kingdom IS GOD, IS His Holy Angels, IS Living souls In Peace, Beauty, Light, Comfort (waiting for their body’s to be risen in Glory).
*WHAT is IN Gods Hell, IS Darkness, Stench, discomfort, Ugly, hot, thirsty....
Picture; Seeing everything ugly, Hearing everything horrendous, Smelling everything putrid, Tasting everything gross, Touching everything that is repulsive.........AND NO ESCAPE or relief. <—- that IS the torments of a Living soul IN HELL....complete and total Separation from God, and all the things THOSE living souls, DID ENJOY, while IN its living body, “ON” Earth.
* SO HOW LONG, does such TORMENTS continue?
* UNTIL...every manKIND of thing, that shall ever be “naturally born”, upon the Earth, IS ACCOMPLISHED. (Which men DO NOT KNOW, WHEN that shall be.)
* MANKIND, is given the Knowledge, of hints, signs, of the progression of Time, eras, generations, what IS foretold, what HAS come to pass....BUT WAIT...in wondering....The DAY, only God KNOWS...WHEN mortal men will CEASE, being “naturally” born upon the Earth.
* ONCE, Mortal men are no longer, BORN upon the EARTH...THEN SHALL, ALL living souls......(be they WITH God in Heaven).....(be they separated FROM God, ie WITHOUT God in Hell)......THEN shall ALL body’s of dust, BE RAISE, by the power of God.
* SOME body’s raised IN GLORY. (Uncorrupted) The Body ALIVE AGAIN.
* SOME body’s raided IN their Corrupt state. The Body’s LIFE still DEAD.
* ALL living souls shall return to their Body’s.
* LIFE in the living soul, IN an (alive body or a dead body) causes the BODY to STAND erect.
* THEN SHALL, ALL BODY’S.....above the earth, on the earth, in the earth, in the seas.......SEE, the Son of Man Returning to Earth. The Son of Man, came to earth, humbled, in the likeness AS a man. He left earth, WITH POWER, (which is to say, Christ IS the Power of God, and the Son of Man, Left Earth, with mankIND KNOWING, the Son of man, was the Son of God, ie Gods Word, and IS the Christ, which Christ IS the Power OF GOD, and return to Earth...
AS the Son of Man (which AS the Son of Man...ALL eyes of men can thus SEE HIM). And WITH POWER, reveals, He comes WITH, supreme POWER), to EFFECT, Gods WILL.
* AND WHAT IS GODS WILL? That ALL of MANKIND would choose to BELIEVE IN HIM.
* SO the Son of Man returns in a fashion ALL eyes of men can SEE HIM.
* AND WITH Power, to effect Gods WILL, raising all body’s Of men, returning their Living souls into the Body’s.
* AND? As we are quite familiar with the nature of manKIND...SEEING IS BELIEVING.
* AND? ALL SHALL SEE, and BELIEVE, bow and worship the Son of Man, which all men DID HEAR, is the Word of God, in the Likeness AS a man, called the Son of God, IS the Christ, ie the Power of God...IS God in the FLesh...
* AND? WHICH SOULS (while alive in their Living Body’s) elected to take and receive Gods OFFERING, TO HEAR, RECEIVE A “TASTE” of Gods Blessing, Enjoy those TASTES of Gods Blessings, AND CHOOSE TO “EAT” Gods Word, Gods Offering for “EATING”, to save their living soul? FEW...
* And? Such Few, SHALL forever keep their “living soul”, by the Power of God.
* And? The Majority, SHALL have life in their soul, return to God, and their Body and Soul....DESTROYED, remembered no more.
(Basic, however, more details, apply to men (whose soul becomes SAVED and to a man, more favorable consequences) AND (greater negative consequences of men WHO, not only did not choose to believe) ....BUT went beyond “disbelief”, and (Advocated and Promoted for OTHER MEN, to NOT BELIEVE....their consequence much worse.)
Glory to God,
Taken
Remember...Body’s die, return to DUST.
Living souls IN a body, depart a DEAD BODY.
Living souls, from the beginning of manKIND, have and will continue to DEPART their Dead body’s.
Dead Body’s rot, return to dust of the Earth.
Living body’s CHOOSE, where their departed LIVING souls SHALL GO...
* WITH God? A departed living soul, GOES (is escorted by a servant of God, ie a holy angel) to be with God, in His Heavenly Kingdom.
* WITHOUT God? A departed living soul, GOES (is sent, by Gods Power), to be separated From God, in Hell.
*WHAT is IN Gods Heavenly Kingdom IS GOD, IS His Holy Angels, IS Living souls In Peace, Beauty, Light, Comfort (waiting for their body’s to be risen in Glory).
*WHAT is IN Gods Hell, IS Darkness, Stench, discomfort, Ugly, hot, thirsty....
Picture; Seeing everything ugly, Hearing everything horrendous, Smelling everything putrid, Tasting everything gross, Touching everything that is repulsive.........AND NO ESCAPE or relief. <—- that IS the torments of a Living soul IN HELL....complete and total Separation from God, and all the things THOSE living souls, DID ENJOY, while IN its living body, “ON” Earth.
* SO HOW LONG, does such TORMENTS continue?
* UNTIL...every manKIND of thing, that shall ever be “naturally born”, upon the Earth, IS ACCOMPLISHED. (Which men DO NOT KNOW, WHEN that shall be.)
* MANKIND, is given the Knowledge, of hints, signs, of the progression of Time, eras, generations, what IS foretold, what HAS come to pass....BUT WAIT...in wondering....The DAY, only God KNOWS...WHEN mortal men will CEASE, being “naturally” born upon the Earth.
* ONCE, Mortal men are no longer, BORN upon the EARTH...THEN SHALL, ALL living souls......(be they WITH God in Heaven).....(be they separated FROM God, ie WITHOUT God in Hell)......THEN shall ALL body’s of dust, BE RAISE, by the power of God.
* SOME body’s raised IN GLORY. (Uncorrupted) The Body ALIVE AGAIN.
* SOME body’s raided IN their Corrupt state. The Body’s LIFE still DEAD.
* ALL living souls shall return to their Body’s.
* LIFE in the living soul, IN an (alive body or a dead body) causes the BODY to STAND erect.
* THEN SHALL, ALL BODY’S.....above the earth, on the earth, in the earth, in the seas.......SEE, the Son of Man Returning to Earth. The Son of Man, came to earth, humbled, in the likeness AS a man. He left earth, WITH POWER, (which is to say, Christ IS the Power of God, and the Son of Man, Left Earth, with mankIND KNOWING, the Son of man, was the Son of God, ie Gods Word, and IS the Christ, which Christ IS the Power OF GOD, and return to Earth...
AS the Son of Man (which AS the Son of Man...ALL eyes of men can thus SEE HIM). And WITH POWER, reveals, He comes WITH, supreme POWER), to EFFECT, Gods WILL.
* AND WHAT IS GODS WILL? That ALL of MANKIND would choose to BELIEVE IN HIM.
* SO the Son of Man returns in a fashion ALL eyes of men can SEE HIM.
* AND WITH Power, to effect Gods WILL, raising all body’s Of men, returning their Living souls into the Body’s.
* AND? As we are quite familiar with the nature of manKIND...SEEING IS BELIEVING.
* AND? ALL SHALL SEE, and BELIEVE, bow and worship the Son of Man, which all men DID HEAR, is the Word of God, in the Likeness AS a man, called the Son of God, IS the Christ, ie the Power of God...IS God in the FLesh...
* AND? WHICH SOULS (while alive in their Living Body’s) elected to take and receive Gods OFFERING, TO HEAR, RECEIVE A “TASTE” of Gods Blessing, Enjoy those TASTES of Gods Blessings, AND CHOOSE TO “EAT” Gods Word, Gods Offering for “EATING”, to save their living soul? FEW...
* And? Such Few, SHALL forever keep their “living soul”, by the Power of God.
* And? The Majority, SHALL have life in their soul, return to God, and their Body and Soul....DESTROYED, remembered no more.
(Basic, however, more details, apply to men (whose soul becomes SAVED and to a man, more favorable consequences) AND (greater negative consequences of men WHO, not only did not choose to believe) ....BUT went beyond “disbelief”, and (Advocated and Promoted for OTHER MEN, to NOT BELIEVE....their consequence much worse.)
Glory to God,
Taken
God created....good and evil.
Mankind was created with freewill.
Mankind was made ABLE to learn of both good and evil.
Mankind was made with the Ability to reason and freely CHOOSE;
To act on.....good OR evil.
Individual men, each suffer the consequences of their OWN choices...
Do Good......Positive consequence
Do Evil........Negative consequence
Remember....do unto/ toward God what is Good or Evil/Wicked...God doles out the consequence.
Remember....do unto/ toward Man what is Good or Evil/Wicked...Man doles out the consequence.
Glory to God,
Taken
bbyrd009
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so, a couple things here; we are trying to understand this via english, right? meaning scribes have interceded, and some clarification might be in order, that many or most professed Christians dont seem to be very comfy with:
The kingdom of heaven is within more or less indicates that heaven and hell are not places anyway, and while i dont know i do suggest that…well, what Samuel (accepted) said to King Saul (rejected) through the Witch of Endor; you and your sons will be here with me. The Bible suggests, many different ways, that there is no “afterlife” as we understand it; but of course no one wants to accept that, even though most all of us heard at baptism “buried with Him in death, raised to new life in Him”
the orig root term most often xlated “hell” is Gehenna, which is of course right here on earth, only our helpful Anglo/Saxon scribes—believers in “afterlife” all—likely had no better word to translate into. Now dont get me wrong, Tartarus might fit their “hell” analogy, but there surely is no punishment in Hades’ mythology, and Jews do not hold with the concept of “eternal” punishment at all
which brings up another misconception, as “eternal” does not mean forever, or at least it didnt 2000 years ago; eternal is derived from aion, which means “a space of time; an age”
Matthew 25:46 Lexicon: "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
Strong's Greek: 166. αἰώνιος (aiónios) -- agelong, eternal
so, not meaning any offense to believers here ok, but “The best cure for Christianity is reading the Bible” according to Samuel Clemens anyway
near as i can tell in order to be considered “Christian” you should at least act like you already know everything lol. Best wishes, mark
God made Adam and Eve - the first man and the first woman and told them to be fruitful and multiply, which they did. So everyone else since then has not been created out of nothing - but according to the laws of nature which he set in place. He also gave us minds with which to way things up and make choices. Some make a conscious choice to be reconciled to God through accepting Jesus and some make the choice to carry on living without him in their lives. Accepting Jesus as Lord and Saviour gives us a place in God's family as his adopted children. Those who reject him are not his family and they pay the consequences for living apart from him throughout their lives by spending eternity separated from him too.
ultimately we don't know the whole answer to this.
Part of the answer is because God loves, another part is that God see the whole story. There are many people who have come to faith from races, tribes, peoples etc who do not know God, there are people in the future who will come to know God yet there ancestors haven't known him.
Despite God foreknowning and predesdining us, we are not robots, we are independant, reasoning, moral beings who are responcible for our actions.
Hell is a horrible idea and the reality of it is far worse than we can imagine, as it took Jesus's sacrifice to save us and it is the knowing rejection of Jesus that makes hell just.
GEN2REV
Well-Known Member
There is a very important variable in the Biblical story that is completely overlooked by most Christians and not taught in church.
That is the Wheat and Tares theology. It is not just a parable, it is a Truth. And once it is added into the equation, the entire Bible makes much more sense. However it may have happened (that part is highly controversial), not all people were created by God. The Bible tells us as much, over and over. There are the Children of God and the Children of the devil. The Children of Obedience and those of Disobedience. The Wheat and the Tares; along with additional references.
I believe the Children of the devil cannot be saved and the Children of God who are led astray by their wicked ways can also be lost. This concept answers all of the uncertainty about why there is a hell and how God can send some people there. I also don't believe in eternal torment in hell, contrary to some verses that appear to imply that, but that hell is a very awful experience of ultimate destruction that lasts for eternity. The destruction is permanent - forever.
Also, some part of those who are of God did exist prior to the creation of the world as scripture indicates. He knew those people before the world came into existence. Possibly, their spirit is a fraction of His? Not sure.
humbleseeker
New Member
Key point - God wants us to accept and love him via CONSENT, not coercion!
Consent is our response to the Cross of Christ and the grace of God. As the Father kisses the world through the life and death of his Son, we receive his kiss by consent. The Son does not force himself into our lives or make us receive his love. But he does invite us to willingly respond to the offer of relationship with God. He initiates and we respond …always by consent. But remember, if consent comes with an ultimatum tied to a deadline— if lack of surrender is threatened with eternal conscious torment— then the offer is devoid of real love. We’re left with no more than a pseudo-choice and not genuinely allowed to withhold consent. Wayne Northey, a pioneer practitioner in restorative justice, described the dilemma for me this way (I’m paraphrasing): Imagine there is a fabulously wealthy king who looks out the window of his castle one day and, in the distance, sees a beautiful Cinderella-type peasant living in the slums. His heart is ravished and he thinks, “This is the perfect bride for my son, the prince.” Unlike other kings— wicked worldly kings— he cannot just abduct her and make her a slave-concubine of his son. He must genuinely invite her to take the hand of his son voluntarily. So, along with his entourage and his son, they make their way out of the palace into the squalor beyond the moat, searching hut to hut and through the markets until they find her. The offer is made: “Young lady,” says the king, “this is my beloved son, the prince of this kingdom and heir to all that is mine. I humbly beseech you to come out of your life of poverty and oppression and to join my son in holy matrimony, enjoying all of the benefits that come with a princess’ life.” The offer seems to be too good to be true. All she needs to do is consent to the proposal. But there’s a hitch. The king continues, “There is a deadline. If you don’t say yes by such-and-such a date, we will arrest you, put you in our dungeon, where torturers will fillet you alive for endless ages, supernaturally keeping you alive such that your torment is never-ending. Moreover, after the deadline, your decision is irrevocable. No repentance is possible. The dishonor of your rejection is too great to warrant any second chance. The consequences of refusal are without mercy and utterly irreversible.” As the king, the prince and their cohort leave, the prince turns and says, “Oh yes, please hurry. And always know that I will love you forever and for always …but only until the deadline.” Is this our gospel? If it were, would it truly be a gospel that preserves the love ofGod, the freewill of humanity and the mutual consent inherent in and necessary to God’s invitation? I don’t buy it any more. Without going into great detail here, might I suggest that because God, by nature, is the eternally consenting Bridegroom, there are two things he cannot and will not do: He will not ever make you marry his Son, because an irresistible grace would violate your consent. Your part will always and forever be by consent. His consent will never end, because a violent ultimatum would violate your consent. Divine love will always and forever be by consent. Emphasis on forever. “His mercy endures forever” (Psalm 136). “I have loved you with an everlasting love; I have drawn you with unfailing kindness” (Jer. 31: 3). I don’t believe the divine courtship involves wearing you down with his love until you give up. It’s simply that he’ll always love you, with a love that even outlasts and overcomes death (Song of Solomon 8). The Bible at least hints (Rev. 21-22) that the prodigal Father will wait for you, invite you and keep the doors open for you until you’re ready to come home. He’ll wait for you forever.
- God created a perfect universe for humans to live perfect holy lives in eternal love and joy.
- God knew this required humans to possess free will and also knew free will would result in sin from evil temptations and curse the perfect creation.
- God had a plan to restore the cursed state of everything back to holy status by defeating evil through the resurrection of Jesus.
- God will reside with resurrected believers on the restored creation (New heavens and Earth) for eternity as originally planned.
- The non-believers will be punished, then annihilated. Still working thru this – Looks like there is sufficient scripture to support annihilation and solves the problem of – why create someone you know would fail and be subjected to eternal conscience torment which doesn’t seem to fit character of a loving God. Or, why create someone who has no control of being created just to eternally torture them ??? Also the problem of infinite punishment for finite sin ???
Consent is our response to the Cross of Christ and the grace of God. As the Father kisses the world through the life and death of his Son, we receive his kiss by consent. The Son does not force himself into our lives or make us receive his love. But he does invite us to willingly respond to the offer of relationship with God. He initiates and we respond …always by consent. But remember, if consent comes with an ultimatum tied to a deadline— if lack of surrender is threatened with eternal conscious torment— then the offer is devoid of real love. We’re left with no more than a pseudo-choice and not genuinely allowed to withhold consent. Wayne Northey, a pioneer practitioner in restorative justice, described the dilemma for me this way (I’m paraphrasing): Imagine there is a fabulously wealthy king who looks out the window of his castle one day and, in the distance, sees a beautiful Cinderella-type peasant living in the slums. His heart is ravished and he thinks, “This is the perfect bride for my son, the prince.” Unlike other kings— wicked worldly kings— he cannot just abduct her and make her a slave-concubine of his son. He must genuinely invite her to take the hand of his son voluntarily. So, along with his entourage and his son, they make their way out of the palace into the squalor beyond the moat, searching hut to hut and through the markets until they find her. The offer is made: “Young lady,” says the king, “this is my beloved son, the prince of this kingdom and heir to all that is mine. I humbly beseech you to come out of your life of poverty and oppression and to join my son in holy matrimony, enjoying all of the benefits that come with a princess’ life.” The offer seems to be too good to be true. All she needs to do is consent to the proposal. But there’s a hitch. The king continues, “There is a deadline. If you don’t say yes by such-and-such a date, we will arrest you, put you in our dungeon, where torturers will fillet you alive for endless ages, supernaturally keeping you alive such that your torment is never-ending. Moreover, after the deadline, your decision is irrevocable. No repentance is possible. The dishonor of your rejection is too great to warrant any second chance. The consequences of refusal are without mercy and utterly irreversible.” As the king, the prince and their cohort leave, the prince turns and says, “Oh yes, please hurry. And always know that I will love you forever and for always …but only until the deadline.” Is this our gospel? If it were, would it truly be a gospel that preserves the love ofGod, the freewill of humanity and the mutual consent inherent in and necessary to God’s invitation? I don’t buy it any more. Without going into great detail here, might I suggest that because God, by nature, is the eternally consenting Bridegroom, there are two things he cannot and will not do: He will not ever make you marry his Son, because an irresistible grace would violate your consent. Your part will always and forever be by consent. His consent will never end, because a violent ultimatum would violate your consent. Divine love will always and forever be by consent. Emphasis on forever. “His mercy endures forever” (Psalm 136). “I have loved you with an everlasting love; I have drawn you with unfailing kindness” (Jer. 31: 3). I don’t believe the divine courtship involves wearing you down with his love until you give up. It’s simply that he’ll always love you, with a love that even outlasts and overcomes death (Song of Solomon 8). The Bible at least hints (Rev. 21-22) that the prodigal Father will wait for you, invite you and keep the doors open for you until you’re ready to come home. He’ll wait for you forever.
Lifelong_sinner
Well-Known Member
what a bunch of NONSENSE!!! Im telling yall right now, this gen2rev dude is the same person as robert derrick this dude says the same nonsense. I have never seen so much nonsense come from 1 person. Yall watch out for this dude, he’s trying to take yall down a dark alley at nite.
GEN2REV
Well-Known Member
Guessing that was directed at me.
Are you familiar with the Wheat and Tares doctrine of Matthew 13:24-30, 36-40? It is not just a colorful fiction to make a point - the indicators are not there to identify it as such. It is a Truth.
The sentence handed down by God to the serpent, in Genesis chapter 3, addresses two seeds: that of the serpent's and that of the woman's. Regardless of what anybody may read into that, it is an undeniable fact that there are two seeds in this world. Period. That is extremely significant.
There are multiple instances of twins that are born where one is loved by God and the other is hated. If you study this out, it is really hard to make any sense of why this is besides the Wheat and Tares/2-seed-line concept. The devil has a seed in this world. It is clear.
Gen. 3:15 "... between thy seed (God speaking to the serpent) and her seed; ..."
There are lots of references to the sons of wickedness, children of rebellion, children of the devil, reprobates, etc.
When you put a lot of these pieces together (from scripture, mind you) you begin to see a different picture than modern Christianity paints for the average person. There is much more to this all as well. Be glad to answer any specific questions if I can. Been studying the concept for a couple years now. Have a long article written up about it, but I can't post it because I can't seem to find definitive proof, one way or the other, if the Tares can be saved. My belief is that they cannot. They don't have the spiritual DNA - if you will - to respond to God's calling. They don't know His voice and thus can't hear His call.
John 10:27
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GEN2REV
Well-Known Member
You are hopeless, Sinner.
Robert Derrick and I don't agree on anything. Not since I first got here have we agreed on anything. Every single concept that I have ever presented is backed by scripture. I'm a threat to YOU and your ilk so you attack me personally instead of addressing the information I present; and your woefully weak attempt at turning people against me is futile.
Those who see the Truth in things I present, will agree with me. Those who don't, will not. It will have zero bearing on any infantile smear campaign that you utterly FAIL to successfully employ.
Nice try, Sinner.
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Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
No manWoman comes spilling from the womb born of God. Even the very thought of this is nuts. This is a classic example of an individual going to church on Sunday morning and receiving every word they hear from a man and believing it to be gospel truth. The first man born of God was Jesus Christ. If you believe on the atoning blood this man shed for you then you can also be born of God.
