Question?

[rdventen]

1.There are those that believe that God is the one that creates all of the good and evil that is in the world. Not true, all evil comes from man because of his evil heart. But God does use mans own evil doings to punish and judge men. Evil is the opposite of good, God is only good but not both. Because it is one thing for God to know all the evil things of the world, and to know evil but can not be evil in and of His self.

2. There are those that believe that God plans and brings all the evil on man. Again not so. But God does know of all the evil things that are going to happen in the world, but He Himself does not plan it to happen that way.

3. There are those that believe that God elects some of mankind for heaven and others for hell. Again this is not true. Because if that was so then the Lord Jesus went to the cross to die for the sins of the world for nothing it would have been foolish, because of election of those who were already created for heaven and hell, what would be the use.

OMNIPRESENT: God is perfect in that He transcends all space and spatial limitations, and is thus infinite with respect to space, with His whole Being filling every part of the universe and being present everywhere (not diffused through the universe, but present at each point in His fullness).


OMNIPOTENT: God is perfect in that He can do all things consistent with the perfection of His being. God cannot do the self-contradictory (e.g., make a rock He cannot lift), nor can He do that which is contrary to His perfect nature (e.g., He cannot change, He cannot lie, etc.).

OMNISCIENT: God is perfect in that He knows all things, including events before they happen.

 

[Brother Mike]

Not a bad post.....................

Here we get into contradiction though. I have thought of this several times.

OK, God does not create evil, and can not be tempted with Evil, and God can not lie. Jesus said Satan is a liar and the father of lies, and there is NO Truth, that means zero, not a drop in him.

SO, How would God fall for a deal with Satan, and supposedly not be tempted with evil, and knows the heart of man anyway, Fall for a deal with a liar that lied though his teeth the whole time talking to God about Job. Now, God that does no evil, sends a hitman to murder the children of someone that obeyed God??


God does no evil, until you get to Church, then folks forget what evil is. They become brainwashed somehow. Now you hear a Pastor say that God Saw in his infinite wisdom to take this family in that car crash, (Murdered them in cold blood.) because he knew the issue that family was going to face down the road.

Now if God knows everything, and God can not lie. Why do people insist that he Knew Adam would eat that fruit?? God set Adam up to fail?
I guess God lied when he said this.

Jer 29:11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.


Now how can God be thinking peace about Adam if the Day Adam was created, he already knew Adam would blow it, and He knew Adam would blow it because he was not thinking peace about Adam.

The Election Doctrine is foolishness.............. We would have to change all the places that say Whosoever, All, any, in the bible to just Those that I have chosen. Strange how English escapes some.

Now, if God knows everything.......... Why tell Hezekiah that he was going to die, then change his mind when Hezekiah repents?

Isa 38:1 In those days was Hezekiah sick unto death. And Isaiah the prophet the son of Amoz came unto him, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Set thine house in order: for thou shalt die, and not live.

Why did God ask Adam if he ate that fruit?? Wouldn't he know? Or was he just joking around and wanting to hear what Adam had to say, but he would have know that anyway.

Gen 11:5 And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.

Now why would a God that knows everything waste time coming down to see????


could it be, that we were so fearfully made in the image of God, and that we are in the same class as he is. That he loves us, as Equals and loves when we turn to him and praise him because we are in his god class. That He waits and see how we are going to respond, and only thinks the best and hopes the best for us????????? He had no idea Adam would turn against him, because a faith God would never see that.

could it be that Job gave place to the devil because of the things he feared? Only the things Job feared come on him, that was it. God said this whole thing was without cause, so God never agreed or made a deal with the devil. God just said Behold, (Pay attention) the hedge is already down.............

Could it be God has the Ability to not know the outcome of mans choice, but hopes they make the right one. So, he goes to see the tower, and he listens to Hezekiah, and changes his mind, and extends his life, because he is merciful.

Could we surprise God? When he knows pretty much what we are going to choose, but instead choose the right thing or better thing?
Jesus was going to the Centurions house to heal his servant. But, the centurion changed that and said, just send your word only and my servant will be healed. This faith really impressed Jesus, but he must have known all along right? NOT!!!!

I probably hurt someones doctrine, So, I'll stop.

Jesus Is Lord

 

[judd]

That why i say, ALMIGHTY GOD'S ways are beyong my thought.

 

[Adstar]

Not a bad post.....................

Here we get into contradiction though. I have thought of this several times.

OK, God does not create evil, and can not be tempted with Evil, and God can not lie. Jesus said Satan is a liar and the father of lies, and there is NO Truth, that means zero, not a drop in him.

SO, How would God fall for a deal with Satan, and supposedly not be tempted with evil, and knows the heart of man anyway, Fall for a deal with a liar that lied though his teeth the whole time talking to God about Job. Now, God that does no evil, sends a hitman to murder the children of someone that obeyed God??

It was Jobs honour. Yes Honour to be used by God in this way to make a demonstration to the Host of Heaven. Death of a human is not the end of a human. We all die. But to die for God is an Honour.

God does no evil, until you get to Church, then folks forget what evil is. They become brainwashed somehow. Now you hear a Pastor say that God Saw in his infinite wisdom to take this family in that car crash, (Murdered them in cold blood.) because he knew the issue that family was going to face down the road.

That's dangerous speculation by the preacher.

Now if God knows everything, and God can not lie. Why do people insist that he Knew Adam would eat that fruit?? God set Adam up to fail?
I guess God lied when he said this.

Jer 29:11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.

Yes God knew Adam would take the bait. But God also knew all History. He knew this would lead to the defeat of satan and the salvation of Mankind. Something i believe Adam can be a part of. Once agtain it is an honour for mankind to be used by God and we will be rewarded far in excess than any angel.

Now how can God be thinking peace about Adam if the Day Adam was created, he already knew Adam would blow it, and He knew Adam would blow it because he was not thinking peace about Adam.

He was thinking peace to Adam. When we see the eternal plan of God we can see this.

The Election Doctrine is foolishness.............. We would have to change all the places that say Whosoever, All, any, in the bible to just Those that I have chosen. Strange how English escapes some.

God who knows our entire lives before we are even born, knowing what response we will make to His will. He has foreknowledge and therefore know beforehand who has eternity with Him. This does not take away from the "whosoever" because in our lives we are the open invitation to respond to His will in the affirmative. It's just that God already knows whom shall affirm His will and whom will reject it.

Now, if God knows everything.......... Why tell Hezekiah that he was going to die, then change his mind when Hezekiah repents?

Isa 38:1 In those days was Hezekiah sick unto death. And Isaiah the prophet the son of Amoz came unto him, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Set thine house in order: for thou shalt die, and not live.

God told Nineveh through Jonah that it too was doomed But God reacts to repentance which is an affirmative response to His will. At the time Jonah gave God's message Nineveh deserved destruction just as Hezekiah deserved death. But both Nineveh and Hezekiah's response to the Will of God opened the door to God's mercy.

Why did God ask Adam if he ate that fruit?? Wouldn't he know? Or was he just joking around and wanting to hear what Adam had to say, but he would have know that anyway.

Maybe He was looking for a repentant confession a response. I do not doubt for a moment God already knew what had taken place.

Gen 11:5 And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.

Now why would a God that knows everything waste time coming down to see????

If He so chose to come down then so be it. But saying that He could not see it and needed to be in the physical vicinity really lowers God to the position of the created.

could it be, that we were so fearfully made in the image of God, and that we are in the same class as he is.

No.

That he loves us, as Equals and loves when we turn to him and praise him because we are in his god class.

No



"That He waits and see how we are going to respond, and only thinks the best and hopes the best for us????????? He had no idea Adam would turn against him, because a faith God would never see that. "

Then what was the tree of knowledge doing in the garden of eden if God knew He would not accept the lie of satan. In fact why would God create mankind at all if He knew that they would never accept the lie of satan? What do you think God created the universe and mankind for?



"could it be that Job gave place to the devil because of the things he feared? Only the things Job feared come on him, that was it. God said this whole thing was without cause, so God never agreed or made a deal with the devil. God just said Behold, (Pay attention) the hedge is already down............. "

Then you do not believe in the scriptures if you do not believe God gave satan the clearance to do what he did with Job. If that is true then you must also believe that God has not given satan clearance to do what he has done in human history from the very start. So therefore do you believe satan has demonstrated his power over God by sabotaging His creation?



"Could it be God has the Ability to not know the outcome of mans choice, but hopes they make the right one. So, he goes to see the tower, and he listens to Hezekiah, and changes his mind, and extends his life, because he is merciful."

God is merciful indeed. But a God who would be powerless and just be hopeful for man to make the right choice is a faulty God who should never have created humanity in the first place.



"Could we surprise God? When he knows pretty much what we are going to choose, but instead choose the right thing or better thing?
Jesus was going to the Centurions house to heal his servant. But, the centurion changed that and said, just send your word only and my servant will be healed. This faith really impressed Jesus, but he must have known all along right? NOT!!!!"

Yes He did already know. But He hid this ability from them. Just as He talked to them in parables so that they could hear without understanding.



"I probably hurt someones doctrine, So, I'll stop.

Jesus Is Lord"

No, not hurt at all.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Miss Hepburn]

My Dad doesn't "punish" me.

There is a Law of Cause and Effect here, sure - I over sleep 10 xs, am late for work, get fired = cause and effect.

No "lesson", no "punish" from God.

I get mugged ---no "punishment" ---I was walking at night in a bad area.

Hurricane - no "punishment" - natural occurrence - not an Act of God.

What on earth are you talking about - how does God "punish" YOU!

He doesn't judge me either - He loves me and only wants my love.
He also wants me happy, abundant and healthy.
He also wants me to fully be in His Kingdom ---punishment and judgment?
I experience only a drawing to Him - coming from Him.
That's like saying God pushes us down the stairs for some reason - when He's really at the top
step beckoning us -
I'm sorry you feel that way about our Holy Father.

 

[Brother Mike]

Thanx Adstar........................

Very interesting subject..................

So, it goes back to the topic above. This is a Question. Where one thinks they know an answer the other see something different.

So, what do we do? We have to rely on Doctrine and compare our doctrine to Scripture in hopes that it gets close.

We agree on the preacher that tells the family that God took them to be dangerous. What are we accusing God of? I have heard things like this more than once. God killed (took) your child to be in the Worship team in Heaven to sing with the angels. People use that stuff.....

We Not so much agree on being in the same class as God. For me I see we are in his image, (Genesis) I see we are His offspring (Acts) I see we are born from the Word (Word was with God, and was God (Peter) So, we are like God, with one difference. We are not creator. This is why we can fellowship with God, and He takes pleasure in it because we are on his level. He reproduced himself to have Children like him, and a plan for eternity that involves us. We can't be Perfect like God as Jesus mentioned if we are not in His class, or have the faith of God (Mark 11:23) if we are not in his class, or even do the works God did. (John 14) Each seed produces after his own kind, and who can tell God he can't reproduce??

We don't agree on Job.............................

I see it written over 58 times to fear not, I see 48 times we are told not to be afraid, not counting to the times to not take thought, or be careful for nothing (Worry) and have good courage.
Job told us that everything that came on him is things he feared, and we are told not to give place to the devil.
In the OT the devil had to answer to God, as Satan's Kingdom had yet be revealed. If it had been revealed, then those people would have probably worshiped Satan in attempts to keep the bad stuff from happening, and hand no authority over him anyway.
I see Job breaking a spiritual law. I see God using the Hebrew word "Behold" which means pay attention. I don't see any permission to Satan or any agreement on Satan's Deal. Satan can't tell the truth anyway. I also see God said this was without cause, and I see God telling Satan not to kill Job, which means God knew Satan was full of it anyway, because if Satan killed Job, then the deal would have been off, because the dead can't curse God.

I can't ignore the fact that things that came on Job, is what Job feared.

Why did Job sacrifice for his kids? What motivated that? Was job being a good parent, or was job motivated by fear of loss? thus Job did continually. I fully believe this is why that was mentioned at the start of Job, with all his goods.

That is what I see...........................

Pretty interesting, we all use Doctrine to interpret scripture.

I wonder what others are going to say, if anything. I hope they read both our post carefully before responding...

Be blessed Adstar!!!!

Jesus Is Lord

 

[Brother Mike]

I missed the post by Judd and Miss Hepburn.

Of course God does not punish us, He chastises those he loves. We have the Word for reproof and doctrine. The Greek for Chastise also means instruct.

Judd, good stance. We have a God knows everything Doctrine, and we have Scripture that points to something different as I pointed out if one does not embrace the God knows all Doctrine.

However, God does know all from start to finish. We know all because he wrote it down. So, it comes to mans choice Doctrine, in Which many do not subscribe to.

Jesus Is Lord

 

[Adstar]

My Dad doesn't "punish" me.

There is a Law of Cause and Effect here, sure - I over sleep 10 xs, am late for work, get fired = cause and effect.

No "lesson", no "punish" from God.

I get mugged ---no "punishment" ---I was walking at night in a bad area.

Hurricane - no "punishment" - natural occurrence - not an Act of God.

What on earth are you talking about - how does God "punish" YOU!

He doesn't judge me either - He loves me and only wants my love.
He also wants me happy, abundant and healthy.
He also wants me to fully be in His Kingdom ---punishment and judgment?
I experience only a drawing to Him - coming from Him.
That's like saying God pushes us down the stairs for some reason - when He's really at the top
step beckoning us -
I'm sorry you feel that way about our Holy Father.

You did not state to whom this post was directed.

But a little scripture:

Proverbs 3
11 My son, do not despise the chastening of the LORD,
Nor detest His correction;
12 For whom the LORD loves He corrects,
Just as a father the son in whom he delights


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

We where made in His image. But an image is not the substance of the original.

We are not God and knowing good and evil does not make us God. that was the deception of satan.. the lie.

We are not on his level. He is higher.

Relying on doctrine is a dangerous thing. Better to seek the Holy Spirit and rely on Him. Many false doctrines are produced in this world.

God gave satan permission to do what he did to Job. Just as satan is allowed to do what he does in the world now.

Job 1
8 Then the LORD said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil?”
9 So Satan answered the LORD and said, “Does Job fear God for nothing? 10 Have You not made a hedge around him, around his household, and around all that he has on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. 11 But now, stretch out Your hand and touch all that he has, and he will surely curse You to Your face!”
12 And the LORD said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your power; only do not lay a hand on his person.”

God gave job over to satan but set a limit to what satan could do. This was in reply to satans challenge to God assessment of Job.

God has given the world over to satan but has set certain limits.

1 John 5
19 We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Brother Mike]

Thank you Brother Adstar!!!!!

It Blesses me to have these discussions.

I understand, all of us want to stay away from any set in stone Doctrine that might make us miss something the Lord is trying to show us. I mean God is BIG, with a capital B. Much larger than what we can comprehend with our limited sense of range, and not being very old. (120 years old is a drop in the bucket compared to eternity, and God being eternal, who could learn all, in that short of time?)

Still Brother I submit to you that we all are guilty of being indoctrinated. It's almost needed because we do need a base foundation of understanding (Having root in ourselves) to comprehend other things. We just fix the Doctrine as we go. At least the smart ones do.


The image of God.

I can't get around how you think of God. There is a stop, or abrasive substance that causes us not to think we are like God. Satan wanted to be God, and we don't want to think like that rascal. I'll try one more time.

We are born out of the seed by the Word of God. God is the Word, word is God. (John chapter 1) Each seed produces after it's own Kind.. God is the one that set that spiritual law. If two monkeys get together, you make more monkeys, if two dogs get together, you get more dogs (Puppies) If humans want children, and get together, then you get what? more humans. If God (The Word) produces something from his seed, and calls us offspring we are called what???? (Acts 17:28)

The laws don't change, just because it's hard on our thinking.

Now Jesus was was about to be stoned one fine day. The religious folk had stones in their hands, and were ready to stone him. I am sure he had gone though this more than once. Jesus ask them, What is it now!!! What good work have I done, that is going to cause you to want to stone me?

Joh 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

They said, it was not the good works this time, No, we found another reason to stone you. They said your are just a man, but make yourself out to be God. This upset them, just like it upsets some today. I mean Jesus was the son of God, and no more a son of God than we are. In fact, Jesus called us brothers. He was the firstborn, and we are the second, and third born. Our number is there somewhere. (Rom 8:29)

Now, these people were going to stone Jesus for making himself out to be like God, or calling himself the son of God. The Father and I are one. (John 10:30)

Jesus gives them a very strange answer. In a sense he was calling them hypocrites.

Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

Joh 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Joh 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?


Now James says we are made in the likeness of God. (James 3:9) Jesus, said they were gods.

We can't ignore these things, something has to be done with these scriptures. Remember, Satan wanted to be god, but he was in the angelic class. He could never be god. We, being above the angels, shall judge angels. (1 Cor 6:3)

What scripture was Jesus quoting?

Psa 82:1 A Psalm of Asaph. God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; (Mighty is the same word as god) he judgeth among the gods.

Psa 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
Psa 82:7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.

God will judge all the men of the earth, We judge the angels. The men God will judge will have no excuse, by their very nature, they are like God. However, they acted like one of the princes. Take a guess who that might be. It's because men rejected their creator, they refused to act in the nature in which they were created, and they will find out they were created like god.

They however want to tell us we came from the backside of a monkey, They refuse their very nature, they refuse Jesus.

Thinking we come from the created and not the Creator.

We are not the creator, just like we can't be the father of our own natural parents, we could never hold that position. We don't know as much as our father God, but what he shows us, we don't have the power of God, but we use his credit cards. A child does not have that authority, but abides under that spiritual authority that their father gave them. We are in his class, made like him, his children, that is why he went to all the trouble for us. He was not going to loose his offspring, and could not create someone to replace us, if everything ended at Adam. Only we can fellowship with him on his level, as he can't make greater than himself.

This is why He loves us!!!! This is why he blesses us, because we are his precious children, created like him. Still children though, and living at home.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

JOB:

Thank you for the scriptures on Job........... I have read those over and over and over.

A number of years back, I was reading Mark 4. The Lord spoke to me (Not a voice but inside) He said, I had nothing to do with what happened to Job.

My response of course was, Lord, you gave the devil permission to get Job, and the Lord said very loudly, and clear. I did no such thing, but I want you to compare scripture, with scripture. He then told me to study Job, and he would show me what happened.


Adstar Quoted:

9 So Satan answered the LORD and said, “Does Job fear God for nothing? 10 Have You not made a hedge around him, around his household, and around all that he has on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. 11 But now, stretch out Your hand and touch all that he has, and he will surely curse You to Your face!”
12 And the LORD said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your power; only do not lay a hand on his person.

God gave job over to satan but set a limit to what satan could do. This was in reply to satans challenge to God assessment of Job.

For a few months this is how I was looking at it. I was stumped, and started to think I really did not hear God that day. It reads just the way it reads.

What do we know though.........


1) God set the boundaries............... This we know, but I started to question why? If there was a deal, then why be concerned if Satan killed Job. Of course if Job died, then he would not have had a chance to curse him or not curse him. That would have to mean God knew Satan was full of it, and never intended to keep any deal anyway.
Also, God already assessed Job. Why would God care what Satan thought about, and since when does God have to prove anything to Satan??

Things started to not add up for me. but God did set some boundaries, that we can agree.

So, is God trying to prove a point to Satan? That is what it looks like, but then God said this............

Job 2:3 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.

God did not stop Satan, but set the limits. So, in essence God could have stopped Satan with just a Word. Yet, God considered the whole thing to be without cause, or Vain, pointless. Why would God allow this to happen to someone that served him, and think it was without cause???

2) God never subscribed to the deal, to Him it was pointless, or vain. Without Cause. God never verbally subscribed to the deal. All God said is pay attention, all Job has is in your power. That's it. We have to rely on what Satan said to make it a deal, and Jesus told us there is no truth in him. Not even a small drop of truth. So, why would we believe a thing he said??? (John 8:44)
Every other place Satan shows up, he Lies......................... Why would we think Job any different????

3) No other place in the bible do we see someone serve God, and get their children murdered, and loose everything. We see the opposite. Children get protected, and the people blessed more and more. Why are we reading Job different?? What had Job done to deserve this??

Even David was blessed, but when he got with Bathsheba, only then and though disobedience do we see destruction. Why is Job different. Someone has to ask that, or they are not doing a full study here.

Isa 1:19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:


Now what about other scriptures??? Outside of Job...................

Could someone that can't tell the truth, make a deal with God to allow evil????????

Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

Does God really give and take away??? or was Job just talking out of grief??

Rom 11:29 For God's gifts and His call are irrevocable. [He never withdraws them when once they are given, and He does not change His mind about those to whom He gives His grace or to whom He sends His call.]

No, God does not do that............. We see different, even the prophets that disobeyed God, still could still operate prophecy. So, Job must have been wrong.

Then I saw it............... It was a few months latter, but I saw it. Well, the Holy Ghost helped me.

FEAR

Job 1:5 And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.

What was in Jobs mind concerning his Children?? Why would Job go to all that trouble?? This was not just a quick prayer for his Children, this was burnt offerings or sacrifice. That takes effort, and work. Something was motivating him to do this, and it was the FEAR of loosing his Children.

Eph 4:27 Neither give place to the devil.

Then I started to count all the times God told us to fear not. 58 some times. 48 some times to be not afraid, be of good courage, take not thought, be careful for nothing (Don't worry)

Over and over we are told not to fear............ what did Job tell us. He told us exactly what happened to him.

Job 3:25 For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me.
Job 3:26 I was not in safety, neither had I rest, neither was I quiet; yet trouble came.


God never made a deal with Satan. God not once agreed to the deal. Satan knew Job was listening to him, but Satan was not going to get at God's man, Satan would not dare cross God. So, Satan comes up with this deal, God reminds Satan that Job is OK, but nevertheless the hedge is down, and all that he has is in your power. Satan had a place, the Hedge was already down.
(The Word Behold in Hebrew means pay attention, look and see.)

The confusion comes from believing what Satan was telling God, it was no more true than what Satan told Eve, or told Jesus in the desert. All a bunch of Fluff. Satan even told God to put his hand on Job, but God would never do that. Satan wanted to get at Job's stuff and had a place, but was just not going over and getting it, crossing God.

So if that is all true............. Then why did God not Stop Satan??????

The same reason God is not going to stop Satan if we get in fear, or if we listen to the devil. The devil is unfortunately the god of this world. He has a place to operate until the appointed time. God gave us his Word, and expects us to obey, and believe. We have protection if we do as God told us to do. Job was ignorant of these things, but spiritual law still does not change, as God's people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. (Hose 4:6)

If God Stopped Satan, then God would have to break his Word concerning fear. Satan would catch God being a hypocrite, and Satan will never Catch God in that position. The Word was hear at the beginning, Job just did not have it concerning fear.

Now if Job says that the things he feared is what came, and God told us all those times not to fear. Should not someone see a connection??? I sure did.

Jesus Is Lord

 

[perrero]

Not a bad post.....................

Here we get into contradiction though. I have thought of this several times.

OK, God does not create evil, and can not be tempted with Evil, and God can not lie. Jesus said Satan is a liar and the father of lies, and there is NO Truth, that means zero, not a drop in him.

SO, How would God fall for a deal with Satan, and supposedly not be tempted with evil, and knows the heart of man anyway, Fall for a deal with a liar that lied though his teeth the whole time talking to God about Job. Now, God that does no evil, sends a hitman to murder the children of someone that obeyed God??


God does no evil, until you get to Church, then folks forget what evil is. They become brainwashed somehow. Now you hear a Pastor say that God Saw in his infinite wisdom to take this family in that car crash, (Murdered them in cold blood.) because he knew the issue that family was going to face down the road.

Now if God knows everything, and God can not lie. Why do people insist that he Knew Adam would eat that fruit?? God set Adam up to fail?
I guess God lied when he said this.

Jer 29:11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.


Now how can God be thinking peace about Adam if the Day Adam was created, he already knew Adam would blow it, and He knew Adam would blow it because he was not thinking peace about Adam.

The Election Doctrine is foolishness.............. We would have to change all the places that say Whosoever, All, any, in the bible to just Those that I have chosen. Strange how English escapes some.

Now, if God knows everything.......... Why tell Hezekiah that he was going to die, then change his mind when Hezekiah repents?

Isa 38:1 In those days was Hezekiah sick unto death. And Isaiah the prophet the son of Amoz came unto him, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Set thine house in order: for thou shalt die, and not live.

Why did God ask Adam if he ate that fruit?? Wouldn't he know? Or was he just joking around and wanting to hear what Adam had to say, but he would have know that anyway.

Gen 11:5 And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.

Now why would a God that knows everything waste time coming down to see????


could it be, that we were so fearfully made in the image of God, and that we are in the same class as he is. That he loves us, as Equals and loves when we turn to him and praise him because we are in his god class. That He waits and see how we are going to respond, and only thinks the best and hopes the best for us????????? He had no idea Adam would turn against him, because a faith God would never see that.

could it be that Job gave place to the devil because of the things he feared? Only the things Job feared come on him, that was it. God said this whole thing was without cause, so God never agreed or made a deal with the devil. God just said Behold, (Pay attention) the hedge is already down.............

Could it be God has the Ability to not know the outcome of mans choice, but hopes they make the right one. So, he goes to see the tower, and he listens to Hezekiah, and changes his mind, and extends his life, because he is merciful.

Could we surprise God? When he knows pretty much what we are going to choose, but instead choose the right thing or better thing?
Jesus was going to the Centurions house to heal his servant. But, the centurion changed that and said, just send your word only and my servant will be healed. This faith really impressed Jesus, but he must have known all along right? NOT!!!!

I probably hurt someones doctrine, So, I'll stop.

Jesus Is Lord

You have no idea how your post thrills me. I have yet to find a Christian who dares to acknowledge that maybe there are things that God does not know, only because they can not be known.
In the case of Job, you are right. The hedge was down. Eccl. (10:8) "He who breaks a hedge, a serpent shall bite him".
Job had a great fear. Job(3:25) "The thing that I greatly feared has come upon me."
This great fear was sinful. IITim (1:7) "For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind."
It is sin in our life that breaks down the walls and hedges of protection that were previously built because of our obedience and faith in God.

The story of Job is not one of God sending evil or God making deals with the devil, it is about the principal of Authority in Spiritual Warfare.
At the cross the devil was stripped of his authority over mankind, this authority was given to Jesus.
This authority is also given to us.
As long as we walk in obedience and righteousness to God, we will be building walls and hedges of protection around us and the enemy will not be able to hurt us. He can tempt all he wants but he has no authority to harm us. But when we go down the path of habitual sin or secret sins this eventualy gives him authority to appear before God and make the requests that he does because he knows that the hedge is down.

Does God changes His mind? Why not? He is not in a box that He is required to follow a certain course of action.
A change of mind does not mean that you were wrong in the first place or that you lied in the first instance, it just means that you choose another direction or course of action that is just as worthy or will accomplish the same purpose as before, just differently.

Anyway these are just thoughts, I am not contradicting anything you say.

Great post

 

[perrero]

It was Jobs honour. Yes Honour to be used by God in this way to make a demonstration to the Host of Heaven. Death of a human is not the end of a human. We all die. But to die for God is an Honour.

Of all the explanations I have read about Job's dilemma, this is not only the most erroneous, it is the most foolish.

Do you like it when people use you? Do you enjoy that? I don't think so. And maybe for some convoluted reason you like that, I can assure you that the majority of people do not like being used.
And I can also assure you that God is not a user.

Your understanding here is that the end justifies the means and that is most definitely not the way God thinks.
Romans(6:1-2) What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid.

Their is a whole dynamic of Spiritual Warfare, of Authority and negative confession involved in this story that you seem to have missed altogether. Pray that the Lord enlightens you.