Thank you Brother Adstar!!!!!
It Blesses me to have these discussions.
I understand, all of us want to stay away from any set in stone Doctrine that might make us miss something the Lord is trying to show us. I mean God is BIG, with a capital B. Much larger than what we can comprehend with our limited sense of range, and not being very old. (
120 years old is a drop in the bucket compared to eternity, and God being eternal, who could learn all, in that short of time?)
Still Brother I submit to you that we all are guilty of being indoctrinated. It's almost needed because we do need a base foundation of understanding (Having root in ourselves) to comprehend other things. We just fix the Doctrine as we go. At least the smart ones do.
The image of God.
I can't get around how you think of God. There is a stop, or abrasive substance that causes us not to think we are like God. Satan wanted to be God, and we don't want to think like that rascal. I'll try one more time.
We are born out of the seed by the Word of God. God is the Word, word is God. (John chapter 1) Each seed produces after it's own Kind.. God is the one that set that spiritual law. If two monkeys get together, you make more monkeys, if two dogs get together, you get more dogs (Puppies) If humans want children, and get together, then you get what? more humans. If God (The Word) produces something from his seed, and calls us offspring we are called what???? (Acts 17:28)
The laws don't change, just because it's hard on our thinking.
Now Jesus was was about to be stoned one fine day. The religious folk had stones in their hands, and were ready to stone him. I am sure he had gone though this more than once. Jesus ask them, What is it now!!! What good work have I done, that is going to cause you to want to stone me?
Joh 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
They said, it was not the good works this time, No, we found another reason to stone you. They said your are just a man, but make yourself out to be God. This upset them, just like it upsets some today. I mean Jesus was the son of God, and no more a son of God than we are. In fact, Jesus called us brothers. He was the firstborn, and we are the second, and third born. Our number is there somewhere. (Rom 8:29)
Now, these people were going to stone Jesus for making himself out to be like God, or calling himself the son of God. The Father and I are one. (John 10:30)
Jesus gives them a very strange answer. In a sense he was calling them hypocrites.
Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
Joh 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Joh 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
Now James says we are made in the likeness of God. (
James 3:9) Jesus, said they were gods.
We can't ignore these things, something has to be done with these scriptures. Remember, Satan wanted to be god, but he was in the angelic class. He could never be god. We, being above the angels, shall judge angels. (
1 Cor 6:3)
What scripture was Jesus quoting?
Psa 82:1 A Psalm of Asaph. God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; (Mighty is the same word as god) he judgeth among the gods.
Psa 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
Psa 82:7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
God will judge all the men of the earth, We judge the angels. The men God will judge will have no excuse, by their very nature, they are like God. However, they acted like one of the princes. Take a guess who that might be. It's because men rejected their creator, they refused to act in the nature in which they were created, and they will find out they were created like god.
They however want to tell us we came from the backside of a monkey, They refuse their very nature, they refuse Jesus.
Thinking we come from the created and not the Creator.
We are not the creator, just like we can't be the father of our own natural parents, we could never hold that position. We don't know as much as our father God, but what he shows us, we don't have the power of God, but we use his credit cards. A child does not have that authority, but abides under that spiritual authority that their father gave them. We are in his class, made like him, his children, that is why he went to all the trouble for us. He was not going to loose his offspring, and could not create someone to replace us, if everything ended at Adam. Only we can fellowship with him on his level, as he can't make greater than himself.
This is why He loves us!!!! This is why he blesses us, because we are his precious children, created like him. Still children though, and living at home.
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JOB:
Thank you for the scriptures on Job........... I have read those over and over and over.
A number of years back, I was reading Mark 4. The Lord spoke to me (Not a voice but inside) He said, I had nothing to do with what happened to Job.
My response of course was, Lord, you gave the devil permission to get Job, and the Lord said very loudly, and clear. I did no such thing, but I want you to compare scripture, with scripture. He then told me to study Job, and he would show me what happened.
Adstar Quoted:
9 So Satan answered the LORD and said, “Does Job fear God for nothing? 10 Have You not made a hedge around him, around his household, and around all that he has on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. 11 But now, stretch out Your hand and touch all that he has, and he will surely curse You to Your face!”
12 And the LORD said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your power; only do not lay a hand on his person.
God gave job over to satan but set a limit to what satan could do. This was in reply to satans challenge to God assessment of Job.
For a few months this is how I was looking at it. I was stumped, and started to think I really did not hear God that day. It reads just the way it reads.
What do we know though.........
1) God set the boundaries............... This we know, but I started to question why? If there was a deal, then why be concerned if Satan killed Job. Of course if Job died, then he would not have had a chance to curse him or not curse him. That would have to mean God knew Satan was full of it, and never intended to keep any deal anyway.
Also, God already assessed Job. Why would God care what Satan thought about, and since when does God have to prove anything to Satan??
Things started to not add up for me. but God did set some boundaries, that we can agree.
So, is God trying to prove a point to Satan? That is what it looks like, but then God said this............
Job 2:3 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.
God did not stop Satan, but set the limits. So, in essence God could have stopped Satan with just a Word. Yet, God considered the whole thing to be without cause, or Vain, pointless. Why would God allow this to happen to someone that served him, and think it was without cause???
2) God never subscribed to the deal, to Him it was pointless, or vain. Without Cause. God never verbally subscribed to the deal. All God said is pay attention, all Job has is in your power. That's it. We have to rely on what Satan said to make it a deal, and Jesus told us there is no truth in him. Not even a small drop of truth. So, why would we believe a thing he said??? (John 8:44)
Every other place Satan shows up, he Lies......................... Why would we think Job any different????
3) No other place in the bible do we see someone serve God, and get their children murdered, and loose everything. We see the opposite. Children get protected, and the people blessed more and more. Why are we reading Job different?? What had Job done to deserve this??
Even David was blessed, but when he got with Bathsheba, only then and though disobedience do we see destruction. Why is Job different. Someone has to ask that, or they are not doing a full study here.
Isa 1:19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:
Now what about other scriptures??? Outside of Job...................
Could someone that can't tell the truth, make a deal with God to allow evil????????
Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Does God really give and take away??? or was Job just talking out of grief??
Rom 11:29 For God's gifts and His call are irrevocable. [He never withdraws them when once they are given, and He does not change His mind about those to whom He gives His grace or to whom He sends His call.]
No, God does not do that............. We see different, even the prophets that disobeyed God, still could still operate prophecy. So, Job must have been wrong.
Then I saw it............... It was a few months latter, but I saw it. Well, the Holy Ghost helped me.
FEAR
Job 1:5 And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.
What was in Jobs mind concerning his Children?? Why would Job go to all that trouble?? This was not just a quick prayer for his Children, this was burnt offerings or sacrifice. That takes effort, and work. Something was motivating him to do this, and
it was the FEAR of loosing his Children.
Eph 4:27 Neither give place to the devil.
Then I started to count all the times God told us to fear not. 58 some times. 48 some times to be not afraid, be of good courage, take not thought, be careful for nothing (Don't worry)
Over and over we are told not to fear............ what did Job tell us. He told us exactly what happened to him.
Job 3:25 For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me.
Job 3:26 I was not in safety, neither had I rest, neither was I quiet; yet trouble came.
God never made a deal with Satan. God not once agreed to the deal. Satan knew Job was listening to him, but Satan was not going to get at God's man, Satan would not dare cross God. So, Satan comes up with this deal, God reminds Satan that Job is OK, but nevertheless the hedge is down, and all that he has is in your power. Satan had a place, the Hedge was already down.
(
The Word Behold in Hebrew means pay attention, look and see.)
The confusion comes from believing what Satan was telling God, it was no more true than what Satan told Eve, or told Jesus in the desert. All a bunch of Fluff. Satan even told God to put his hand on Job, but God would never do that. Satan wanted to get at Job's stuff and had a place, but was just not going over and getting it, crossing God.
So if that is all true............. Then why did God not Stop Satan??????
The same reason God is not going to stop Satan if we get in fear, or if we listen to the devil. The devil is unfortunately the god of this world. He has a place to operate until the appointed time. God gave us his Word, and expects us to obey, and believe. We have protection if we do as God told us to do. Job was ignorant of these things, but spiritual law still does not change, as God's people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. (
Hose 4:6)
If God Stopped Satan, then God would have to break his Word concerning fear. Satan would catch God being a hypocrite, and Satan will never Catch God in that position. The Word was hear at the beginning, Job just did not have it concerning fear.
Now if Job says that the things he feared is what came, and God told us all those times not to fear. Should not someone see a connection??? I sure did.
Jesus Is Lord