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RAPTURE

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by JLMichaels, May 22, 2009.

  1. JLMichaels

    JLMichaels New Member

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    RAPTUREForget about pre, mid or post tribulation rapture as there is none till the very end of the age so as to enter the new heaven, earth and the New Jerusalem. Yes I am a born of the Holy Spirit by the blood of the Lamb, Christ Jesus, nondenominational Christian. I had first read the bible from cover to cover at the age of three. The rapture was never on my mind at all, even after my rebirth in Christ Jesus. I would dare to say that after my rebirth I was even less interested in the so called rapture for to die in Christ Jesus was everything I needed as having all my sin debt paid for by Christ Jesus. What I am saying,I didn't ever give it any serious study, believing as I initially read and understood it was at the very end of the age upon this earth so one would be transferred alive into the new heaven and earth. This was not dependant on being alive at that time as well. So if one should die before this new heaven and earth, we would not miss a day of the new. That is all.Still saying after some more serious study, there is no stinking Tribulation Rapture, only the rapture to transfer at the very end of this age. If you sight Peter, please explain the burning away of everything including sin. If you say this is a nuke, than nuke this place to send all this sin to the pit and get it over with. If you are sighting Paul, sin and death are destroyed as well. That doesn't happen till the very end of the age either. If you sight Revelation, please note how both the just and unjust are harvested, by death. If you sight Daniel, he is told he must wait till the end of days, the same as saying the end of this age upon this earth. So please show me your stinking Tribulation Rapture in real words that have actual meaning that even a small child can understand. Without me needing your super spiritual eyes to see all this magic, and black magic at that for I now see this as one great lie from the pit.If you sight the return of Christ with His armies. It is just that, Christ returning with His armies. His armies being His heavenly hosts and those who have been sealed by death, 144000 saints, as in real men the likes of Peter, Paul, John, Steven ect. I see a resurrection. It is called the first, yet I see no stinking Tribulation Rapture, pre, mid or post. If you say Christ comes in the clouds, this is once again at the very end of the age for one and all to enter the new heaven and new earth.Please show me your Tribulation Rapture.I just had a most wicked after thought in the mind set of; Just what is Satan up to now?Take a close look just how this Tribulation Rapture smells from the pit. Of all the most popular Christian denominations(demon nations)just what is seen as the harlot churches stand on the Tribulation Rapture. That being the Roman Catholic Church, the mother of all false doctrine. Though there are many other denominations that believe in the Tribulation Rapture, she does not. When there is no pre, mid or other type of rapture durning the Tribulation, just what will that make her look like. The RCC is no saint because she alone sees no Tribulation Rapture, but as all false hopes in those other denominations are dashed, will not all the rest of her false doctrines seem more pleasing than anyone elses? If your church teaches any kind of Tribulation Rapture, just whos' will is being accomplished? The LORD's or Satan's?
     
  2. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    There is none it is not written never was ... There is one second coming at the 7th trump (last trump) we are then all changed into our incoruptable bodies ...We then enter into the millieum. Rapture is doctrine of men not God .. One must first hear the doctrine from men and then they think they see what they wrongly conclude could be a Rapture ..It exist's in American culture ... spured on by hollywood..and false teachers ... God is against fly away doctrines of men.... It is not the Word of God ...And this site does not adhere to Rapture Theroy ... It is just that a theroy which by defintion is a thing that can not be proved .... Eze 13:20Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.
     
  3. JLMichaels

    JLMichaels New Member

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    ChristinaI am very hardnosed. I get this form my military experience. I've read a number of your posts, on various issues I agree with you most fully. Misunderstandings are just that, sin is knowing the truth and a proven truth at that and willfully turning it into a lie. We all value our own personal opinions and views. When someone sees what we see differantly, we first take it personally. Though the truth is just that, the truth.Once again the twinkling of an eye change Paul is talking about is at the very end of this age as well. Paul knew he was going to die and just how as well, as he states in his letters. He was not only giving himself hope, but others as well that in departing they really where not going to miss anything. For at the very end of the age, we all will be reunited once again, in the new heaven and new earth.The putting on of the immortal takes place at that time as well. We who are yet alive in Christ Jesus as the tribulation begins will be changed. The change is not immortal flesh, the change is a new filling of God's Holy Spirit. Just like those 144000 Jews sealed at the begining of the tribulation, this new surge of the power of God's Holy Spirit will afford us devine protection. Unlike these 144000 Jews, which can't be filled with God's Holy Spirit, that is why they must be sealed, for that is reserved for those in Christ Jesus alone. You must be as fully wed in Christ Jesus to receive as much of the power as possible and you must not grieve the Holy Spirit in any way, as this will reduce it's power and effect. Thus Paul speaks in the terms of a race. Quickly come to the fullness in Christ Jesus as soon as possible and do all one can to remain that way, for at any day the tribulation could begin, even as a theif in the night. Don't be found naked, that is not having the righteous of Christ Jesus to the fullest. For you will suffer loss of power, thus shame. Those most righteous will shine like the face of Moses due to the Holy Spirit's charge. Immortal flesh once again is set for the new heaven and new earth. Sin and the price of sin are present throughout the 1000 year riegn of Christ. The falling away at the end of the age is proof as well as sin and death are only sent into the lake of fire, once again at the very end of the age. The temple law and scrafices prove this to be true as well for these reunited to God, Jews. As for those in Christ Jesus, we have his grace. We will sufer loss for are sins and yet die, though those who remain most faithful may and can remain alive till the very end of that age as well.Immortal flesh is nice, but we will who are yet alive, will have to wait as all others, till the very end of the age to have it. There are exceptions as always. These are the first fruits, 144000 sealed unto God in Christ Jesus. They will be returning in immortal flesh and they alone will have this blessing till the very end of the age. Then all others as well. That is the army that returns and destroy all the ungodly form this earth at the end of the tribulation. They are the government that will never perish.The river of the sanctuary is noted as being for the healing of the nations. That is we who are in Christ Jesus, outside the Jewish nation. Nationally, Jews are Jews. Nationally all other are gentile nations. Not under law as the Jews will be, but under grace in Christ Jesus. We are known as unclean to the Jews. Quite possibly, it may be required to take a dip before we are allowed to associate with them, though I plan to go there just to have my flesh renewed as often as possible, and yes join them the best I can in praising God and Christ Jesus in all the ways I can. I hope to see you their as well.Love in Christ JesusP.S. This is something I left out that is also the reason one and all will not have immortal flesh till the very end of days upon this planet, as immortal flesh is indestructible. Just why would GOD waste His time giving such to all those He will end up having to destroy at the very end of days as well? An if it is indeed indestructible, just how would GOD destroy them? This just wouldn't be immortal flesh if it could be destroyed.
     
  4. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    Hi there JLMichaels. [​IMG] With all due respect, God in the Old Testament uses military actions. But did God take them out of flying? (Rapture) No. Flesh death means nothing to God. If He never raptured His children in the Old Testament, why would He need to in the New Testament? God is against flying away. (Ezekiel 13:20) When we and the whole world changed back into their original body which is our spirit bodies, we are still going to be here on Earth, as Heaven is coming down to Earth. Earth is our home. [​IMG]
     
  5. JLMichaels

    JLMichaels New Member

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    JordanThere will be a new heaven and a new earth and a new Jerusalem. Why? For GOD in all His glory will be with man forever. This means Father, Son and Holy Spirit face to face with man forever. One on one personal relationship with one and all of GOD's created. GOD is first last and forever pure and Holy within no darkness dwells nor can come before Him. All of the present heaven, sun, stars, moons etc. are defiled by sin for being objects of false worship. This present planet is completely covered with sinful innocent blood and this includes GOD's present temple in Heaven itself, as it is defiled by sin, as Job clearly states, this man of sin, Satan, appears before the LORD of Hosts, in Heaven.Now you should see more clearly the need for the new heaven of unsin stained stars and planets. The new unsin stained earth to call home and a new Heavenly temple, the New Jerusalem where all now in sinless prefection will dwell with GOD as one, forever. Once again this is not possible with the present sin stained of all that we have now. We can never walk with GOD here as Adam and Eve first did because of sin and sin alone. To make this possible once again, thus, the new of everything. At the very end of days on this present planet, will all need to die again to enter the new reality? No. We will all be changed into sinless immortal flesh and raptured into the new for sin and death are destroyed forever by this very act.Thank you for staying true to the LORD and GOD of All for not falling for this lie from the pit of all sin.My the LORD and GOD of ALL continue to bless you and all, forever more.
     
  6. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    Of course there is a New Heaven and a New earth but you have skipped over a whole Millieum (1000 years) at the coming of the Lord at the 7th trump This flesh age ends ..but there is 1000 years before there is a New heaven and a New earth ....At the end of this thousand years Satan is loosed again for a short while to test those who were not of the first resurrected ...Then comes th White throne Judgement ...After this there is a new Heaven and a New Eath where all sin and the devil are permatly destroyed and the elements melt and there is a New heaven and a New earth .... Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection. Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
     
  7. JLMichaels

    JLMichaels New Member

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    ChristinaTHE FIRST RESURRECTIONRevelation has all one needs to see just who and why of the first resurrection. The first resurrection is not Lasarus or anyone found anywhere else in the bible except for those that perish in Christ Jesus durning the time known as the Tribulation. This is the span of seven years know as Daniel's 70th week of years. The Tribulation being the period of time marked by the announcement of GOD's judgments and the immediate execution of these judgments of all the heavens and the earth. This is how one and all will know the Tribulation has begun. The little scroll and the angel with the voice of seven thunders, seven years of judgment, is heard by one and all alive throughout the heavens and the earth. From this start all who perish in Christ Jesus to the very end of this seven year period of time will be in the first resurrection. Not knowing the day the Tribulation starts doesn't matter until the voice of the judgments is heard. From that starting date, seven full years later is the finish. This doesn't matter if the judgments are completed before this time frame ends. When GOD says seven full years, God means just that. He did promise to speed things up to do just that, complete His judgmments before these seven years ends. Though all within this complete seven years will qualify. There are more condition to meet. You must die in Christ Jesus without taking the mark of the beast or worship him or his image to qualify. Also, you must be martyred. No doubt, many will die in Christ Jesus for untold number of reasons. Outside of being martyered, you will be seen by God as finishing your course, as Paul puts it, finished your race. A martyerd life has been cut short for the cause of Christ Jesus, thus deserves to finish the course GOD had set for it. Thus the first resurrection saints. See in Revelation how there is a great number that stand before GOD with their robes washed white in the blood of the lamb holding palm branches in their hands that have come out of the Tribulaion and finished their course, as they will remain with GOD forevermore. Under the alter, there are the martyers. No robes, for they did not finish their course. These are the first resurrection saints.As the Tribulation is complete, they are raise from their rest, just like Lazarus, form the earth where they perished. Thus the prisoners of death are set free once again to rule and reign with Christ.THE SECOND RESURRECTIONThis is for every soul that has ever lived upon this earth from the very end of time to the very beginning of time upon this earth. Living breathing souls, not angels or anything else for all else has been judged by GOD and sent into the lake of fire. Once in the fire, you never get out. Those who have all died in Christ Jesus, have their souls and spirits taken to Heaven upon their death. The stoning of Steven proves the promises of GOD are true. The book of Revelation shows you that not just Tribulation saints are there, but all who where faithful to GOD as well, the Multitude that no man could number are these. None have received their full reward, just like Daniel. The judgment seat is quite contrary to most of what I have heard in the past. It is for sinners only. Not true. All rewards come from GOD the Father at this time. And yes all the sinners are judged as well. Thus some go to everlasting love and life, others to everlasting hate and eternal death.With Love In Christ Jesus
     
  8. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    The tribulation has nothing to do with the Millenium Yes the tribulation is the last period of time in this age ending in the coming of Christ. the first resurrected are those who overcome to the End of the tribulation without following Antichrist. They are the Elect who overcome and reign and rule with Christ 1000 years.... During this 1000 years there is no flesh as 1 Cor. tells we are ALL YES THATS ALL changed into incorruptible bodies .... During this 1000 years Satan is bound ... All those deserving a second chance will be taughtthe truth ... Then after the 1000 years just as scripture says ...Satan is loosed for a little while to test those who were taughtOnly the first resurrected who overcame to the end of this age ... will not have to be tested again when Satan is loosed. It is then after this testing that comes the white throne Judgement on all ...And then a New heavens and New earth ...As I said you missing a whole section of time written in the scripture 1. Tribulation Ending in the coming of Christ ...End of the age... End of flesh...All are changed into incorruptible bodies2. Millenium.. Christ is here on earth ruling...Satan is bound... its a 1000 years of teaching ..the first resurrected reign and rule with Christ 3. Satan loosed ...testing for all those taught ... except first resurrected who have overcome they need no futher testing ...4. Judgement of all (white throne judgement) .... Satan and his destroyed forever ... 5. A new heaven and a New earth ...
     
  9. Pariah

    Pariah New Member

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    I am not sure I follow you on this reasoning or your format for discernment. Are you saying that because RCC does not believe in the pre-tribulation rapture, it is a ploy to lure other denomenations into believing in catholicism once the era of the great tribulation sets in?I suppose in one sense I could see the deception working to that end but scriptures pretty much plainly debunks catholicism whereas the topic of the rapture is up in the air as far as believers reading the Bible goes.Reason being, the falling away from the faith was to occur first. I see it happening now. The broadening of the Way to God the Father has occurred by putting the Holy Spirit in the spotlight to be worshipped alongside with Jesus Christ. By ignoring the commandment of John 14:6, they suffer their houses to be broken through when other spirits come into the worship place to take the focus and sights off of Jesus even for a moment to gain worship & glory whereas Biblically speaking, the real inner dwelling Holy Spirit seeks to lead us to testify of the Son so as to glorify the Son and thereby the Father in Heaven thus worshipping God the Father IN spirit and IN truth through honoring the Son. John 5:22-23 states plainly that there is no other way in honouring God and if God the Holy Spirit is leading us to that end in according to the will of the Father, then all eyes should be on the Son. Matthew 7:13-14 states the core reason for the falling away from the faith while Luke 13:24 states the solution to avoid false spirits as well as false prophets which is all in keeping with the commandment of John 14:6 in coming to God the Father in worship.That being said, it is also written that judgment must fall on the House of God first ( 1 Peter 4:17). How can that happen if the just and unjust are being judged at the same time? How can the saints come back with Him at the end of the great tribulation unless that judgment was passed on the House of God as a prior event? If you consider that Jesus taught excommunication when a brother has been caught in a trespass and repents not, has been corrected privately, and then by two or three witnesses, and then by the whole congregation, then he was to be put out to be buffeted by Satan to the destruction of the flesh ( 1 Corinthians 5:1-13 & Matthew 18:14-17). I find that quite similar to pre-tribulation rapture as dealing with those that fell away from the faith or/and gave up their "first inheritance" for wild living as those believers that live in sin are those that will not inherit the Kingdom of God as many citations has been given as fair warning.. fornicators.. idolators .. etc. shall not inherit the Kingdom of God. In other words, as Christ taught the church to do, so will He when they are laxing in their duties when judgment falls on the House of God which I believe is the reason for the pre-tribulation raptureIf I may expound on this point as citing the example of the fornicators, God addressed this issue with a church in Thyatira that unless they repent, they shall be cast into the great tribulation. ( Revelation 2:18-23 )I do see the catching away as some escape from the great tribulation but because of the marriage supper of the Lamb for those keeping the faith by the grace of God and leaning on Him to enable them to be found abiding in Him at His appearing. Jesus said that it will be so bad before His appearing that only a few will find the faith because of the deceptions in the churches of the Gentiles ( Matthew 7:13-27 & Luke 13:24-30) which leads to why the despensation of the Gospel has to go back to the Jews, hence the 144,000 witnesses during the great tribulation. One thing to note regarding the death of the saints is how their works followed them into the earth as if implying what? The burning away of dead works that deny Him? ( 1 Corinthians 3:10-23 & Hebrews 12th chapter).I read the parable of the foolish virgins and when they were left behind, it was only then they had oil for their lamps just as the prodigal son upon returning after being left out with nothing but the consequences of his wild living... he was still the son. I note how the wiping away of the tears from the eyes of the saints was written in Revelation 7:17 & 21:4 as being done by God as the only way they will stop weeping and gnashing their teeth over the loss of their first inheritance. The shadow of Esau as the format for this judgment can be seen in relations to the Gospel of Jesus Christ and so the call is given out as this is the reminder of our faith:2 Timothy 2:11It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. 14Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers. 15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.........19Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. 22Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart. 23But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes. 24And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.2 Timothy 4:1I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; I read two events in here... His appearing... the pre-tribulation rapture and when He comes to set up His kingdom on earth... where the just and the unjust shall be judged.2Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine. 3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 5But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry. 6For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing. I know that many will probably still disagree here, and that is fine, but nothing can dispute the verses I have shown let alone this singular verse that sets up the whole of the kingdom of God in Matthew 13:33. If you read that singular verse with how in the end of the 1000 year reign of Christ when Christ puts everything under His feet and hands over the Kingdom back to the Father, then by the grace of God, one may see the pre-tribuloation "harvest", the end of the great tribulation "harvest" and the end of the 1000 year reign of Christ "harvest".1 Corinthians 15: 22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.Matthew 13:33Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.So the call now is to heed the instructions and the warnings in Revelations given to the seven churches to be found ready for that marriage supper of the Lamb as keeping the faith is the good fight. Not believing in the rapture is hardly a punishment to be left behind any more than believing in the rapture is a requirement to be raptured. The good fight is keeping the faith in Jesus Christ as I lean on Jesus to keep me from falling and to present me faultless to His glory... and I even need His help with that as well!! Even so, come Lord Jesus. Jude 1:24-25
     
  10. JLMichaels

    JLMichaels New Member

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    You must understand the Jews of Israel first to more fully know GOD's plans for one and all. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and his twelve sons, with the split of Joseph by Jacob's grandsons, you end up with the 13 tribes of Israel. They were first given the laws of GOD by Moses which they all failed to keep an were cast out by their GOD, the Father of Christ Jesus. GOD sent His son to save them from their sinfulness by grace so as to spare them from their fate, the wages of sin, breaking the law, is eternal death. From the time of Christ to the present, GOD's house, Israel has been held for the day of their restoration by grace and grace alone. GOD will re-establish the whole house of Israel at the end of this present age of grace. Though they are in the present world, they were not to be part of it. That is to say stay seperated unto GOD in Christ Jesus, apart from the world by intermarage with the gentiles. Thus remaining true to GOD by grace in Christ Jesus and by keeping their bloodlines pure unto GOD as well. This is so the can be fully restored to GOD, all the land of Israel, the law once again and the temple worship of GOD included. This is what GOD the Father of Christ Jesus is out to accomplish in these last days.It will not be as it first began, that is the worship of GOD and the keeping of the law by their own power and strength. They will have the full power of GOD's Holy Spirit to make one and all fully able to worship GOD, body, mind, soul and spirit, forever. No more falling away due to the fraility of sinful flesh alone. Now the Holy Spirit of GOD will keep them faithful to GOD forever more.The church was most fully for one and all of the gentile nations, as it will be as Israel proper is restored. The gentile nations have their own bodies as GOD's temple to worship GOD being in Christ Jesus now and forever more as well. You should than see the nation Israel true to GOD throughout the 1000 Kingdom years faithfully serving GOD, law, temple and seperate from the world as GOD insists.What we all know now as denomination churches are of demonic origin. Our relationship to GOD in not only personal, but spiritual as well. There is nothing of the flesh that can serve GOD. Only the spirit. Thus Jew and Gentile worship the very self same way for now, that is until Israel is fully and completely restored. They, the Jews, seperate and apart by bloodlines, we gentile nations as we please, all in Christ Jesus. If your demonic church teaches anything else, it is indeed from Satan. They all do just that.We who are seperated from any and all of the denominational churches know and serve GOD and GOD alone in Chist Jesus, apart from all this false church doctrine of Satan. May I suggest you do the same, for the eternal wrath of GOD, is for all who touch the apple of GOD's eyes, His chosen people of Israel proper.
     
  11. JLMichaels

    JLMichaels New Member

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    Now back to trying to disspell all this false church doctrine and teaching. There is literly no end to it as these false churches of a christ I don't know but only these denominations teach and preach about. Christ Jesus is known as the servant of servants. Please read those first lines of Revelation most carefully. To serve the Father of Christ Jesus is what you should be looking for. Just what are the Father's plans once again. To restore His select, called and chosen people of Israel. I don't see Christ Jesus trying to restore the church in these last days. His Father's house, yes, the church, no. Stop taking propises GOD has given to His chosen people and to His chosen people alone and not the church. Just where do you see the division of the land of Israel or anywhere else in the bible I know and read to the church and to the church alone.But isn't Christ Jesus going to clean His house, the church as well? Yes, by destroying any and all who don't serve both Him and His Father to the fullest, that includes the nation of Israel proper. All denominational churches make the same claim. They will be the head, Israel the tail. GOD's words, the bible clearly states it the other way around. Once again, those first lines of Revelation do just that most clearly.Just why hear and now and again at the very end of the days upon this planet does Satan raise up against these people of Israel, and not the church. Does self destruction have anything to do with this?
     
  12. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    What are you talking about ? I understand well who true Israel is and when they are reunited, What does this have to do with rapture ?or Millieum? rightly divide .... The 1000 years is after ... Christ returns after all tribes are reunited under Christ ..the gentiles are grafted in ...This is the time of the gentile ...
     
  13. JLMichaels

    JLMichaels New Member

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    Now when I first believed I had to know who and for what I was believing in. Forgiveness of sin is one thing and one thing of and by itself. The reason I needed forgiveness of sin was to followship with God in Christ Jesus. It was expected of one and all to become just like our savior, Christ Jesus the only begotten son of GOD who was ever found doing His Father's will perfectly. When you are full in Christ Jesus, just who's will are we to do. Christ Jesus's will or the Father's will. It is the Father's will just like Jesus in sinless perfection. That being found never not doing His Father's will, even above our own self will. Than again, just like Jesus. What is the Father's will once again upon this earth. Remember, Christ Jesus said Himself His kingdom is not of this world. Than just who's Kingdom is coming? The Kingdom of Jesus's which is in heaven or the Father's Kingdom of this earth, Israel?OUR FATHER, WHO ART IN HEAVEN, HOLY BE YOUR NAME, THEY KINGDOM COME, THEY WILL BE DONE, ON EARTH!!!!! Who are we in service to and for just what specific purpose? For the re-establishment of GOD the Father's Kingdom of Israel upon this earth. Since GOD is Holy, to serve Him, we must also be Holy, that is without sin. Getting ride of the sin is who's job to do? Is it not the blood of the Lamb, Christ Jesus and GOD's helper and comforter, the Holy Spirit. All are working for the very self same goal. Establishing GOD the Father's Kingdom upon this earth, now and forever more.Are all tasks the same? No, the goal is the same though the various task assignments differ, both within and without Israel proper, that is to say, throughout the whole world. For GOD the Father in the spirit of His Son, Christ Jesus. The servant of servants.Just who are you being taught to serve, God the Father of Christ Jesus, yourself or the "CHURCH". Odds the church and self, for get all that stuff about GOD's will, GOD's way being in His power and His strength. No reason why the modern day church is dead and lifeless to the power of GOD, now is there?If it is not serving the Fathers will alone, just like Jesus, it is more than dead, it is headed for the pit.
     
  14. JLMichaels

    JLMichaels New Member

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    Now that I have given you and your churches fate if it isn't set upon doing the Father's will, let me tell you the fate of your country. America, you will be destroyed within an hour as the Tribulation begins. Your judgment seat awaits you. You are now in fact sitting upon the world's largest volcano, Yellowstone, fully prepped as in primed and ready to blow. 2400 cubic miles of hot lave awaiting GOD's call. You will indeed burn forever, never to raise again.Why? You insist any and all who have a claim upon the Holy Land given to only GOD's chosen and to GOD's chosen alone are indeed valid. The wages of sin are death, and you will indeed die the eternal death of GOD wrath! Israel is indeed the apple of GOD's eyes. Cursed forever will be any and all who curse GOD's love, blessed will be any and all who bless her. Have you put your life on the line for GOD in Christ Jesus and GOD's first love, Israel?
     
  15. Martin W.

    Martin W. Active Member

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    Some folks here are beyond amazing. They have absolutely no comprehension of systematic theology , yet are still determined to reach the whole world with mixed up , confused doctrines. Simply amazing !!!!No rapture ??????No tribulation ??Please explain this:These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.You will find this in revelation 7.
     
  16. JLMichaels

    JLMichaels New Member

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    HERE IT IS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!RIGHT HERE IN THIS VERY POST IS YOUR VERY BLINDNESS WHICH FULLY ESTABLISHES MY CASE. I MOST CLEARLY STATED THERE IS NO STINKING TRIBULATION RAPTURE, FOR ONE AND ALL ARE UNDER THE FULL WRATH OF GOD WHICH I JUST GAVE THE FULL REASON WHY IN MY LAST TWO POSTS. I JUST GAVE YOU ALL THE REASONS FOR THE TRIBULATION IN THE FORM OF GOD'S JUDGMENTS THAT ARE ABOUT TO FALL ON ONE AND ALL FOR THEIR BLINDNESS OF NOT SEEING WHO THEY ARE TO SERVE IN CHRIST JESUS. THESE JUDGMENTS ARE UPON AND FOR ALL INDIVIDUALS, CHURCHES AND NATIONS WHO ARE AGAINST ESTABLISHING GOD'S KINGDOM UPON THIS EARTH, ISRAEL. THE FATHER'S HOUSE FROM WHO AND WHERE HE IS TO BE WORSHIPPED UPON THIS EARTH, MOUNT ZION, ISRAEL.The very cause of Christ Jesus is to fully establish the Fathers Kingdom of Heaven upon this earth once again. Israel was not a nation when Jesus arrived upon the scene. Harod the mortal enemy of the house of David was sitting on his throne, Harod being from the house of Esau. Here is the apostle Paul, who as Saul was serving as a keeper of the law, something only those of the tribe of Levi could do, though Paul was of the tribe of Benjamin. Who where they of the High Priest and all other seats of honor in both the nation of Israel and in the temple services. They were all chosen by the Romans to not only make sport of this nation, Israel, but also to mock the GOD they formerly served.Jesus's own diciples did not believe that Jesus was the only begotten son of GOD, as it is plainly noted in the gosples as they wanted to see the Father. That being in the tangible flesh, just like Jesus. God is spirit. Yes they were not chosen for their smarts, just their ability to believe on Jesus and all the works He had done by the power His GOD and Father gave Him.Now Christ Jesus was sent by GOD and Father to fully establish His Kingdom of Israel once again. Not just by forgiveness of sin alone, but by full dicipleship. That required to forsake all the world had to offer to serve GOD fully in Christ Jesus. Over the past 2000 years GOD had been building His army of diciples in Christ Jesus to re-establish His King of Israel upon this earth once again. GOD now has this 144000 army of warriors of light, as in Sons of Light to re-establish His Kingdom. This battle is about to begin, known as the Tribulation. All against this pure cause of God in Christ Jesus will perish, for no ungodly person will survive this battle. If you are not found standing for this cause and this cause alone in Christ Jesus, you will perish. There is no neutral ground. The cause once again, to be in full service to GOD in establishing His Kingdom upon this earth. This is not to bring the Kingdom of Heaven down from Heaven to this sinful world, it is to establish this sinless Kingdom of GOD upon this earth, Mount Zion, Israel.To know and do anything less to further the full cause of Christ Jesus is to perish in your sinfulness. Though to call upon GOD in the spirit of Christ Jesus, which is to do GOD's will alone, you will be saved. Your deeds of righteous will follow. No deeds/works, no reward, just forgiveness of sin.So serving a church denomination and self will esablish just what? The fact that you are not serving the real cause of Christ Jesus, the Father's Kingdom. Oh, so your working to help establish God's Kingdom in Heaven. Really, tell just how GOD needs any help from anyone alive to do just that when it had been fully accomplished by His Son, Christ Jesus. What you are really saying is you want into this Kingdom of Heaven when you "die". We will see just who makes it, for time will tell.
     
  17. JLMichaels

    JLMichaels New Member

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    More on judgment. America is the first to go. Most easy to tell just when this battle for the Kingdom of GOD to be fully re-established begins. Seven years hence, this battle is over. Scientists and bible scholars agree it would be a miracle if you will be able to find the number GOD first lead out of Egypt, that being about four million souls.From what I was given and others to see as Yellowstone blows at the very beginning and the resulting effects felt worldwide, 2 billion will perish in no time at all. The blast of Yellowstone will rupture fault lines the world over. Basically the northern hemisphere is wiped out due to all the fallout of ash. Ash is glass particles loaded with sulfer. When moistened by water, surfic acid is produced. As one breathes this into their lungs, they will die a most painful death.Wormwood has been found. It is an astaroid that appears as its given name, a piece of wormwood. It has been out there for many years, it was first sighted three years ago. The first time it was seen, no measurments were taken. The second year it passed and measurements where than taken. It will collide with the earth, guessed within the next serveal years. Just a guess as they need several years of accurate measurments to tell just when and where it will impact earth. From the size of it, it is guessed to produce a hole in the earth the size of Texas, causing the whole earth to wobble like a drunk. It was most easy to see it a miracle if four million remain alive at the very end of the Tribulation. From the size of the alter in Heaven, being the same as the one that was upon the earth, it will only hold, cover, about 30 or 40 souls, depending upon their size. The first resurrection is for these rare few. All these numbers are just guesses, though modern science was involved and not the grace of GOD. By the grace of GOD and the blessings of deliverance, those that survive will most surely know.The science on Yellowstone and Wormwood was banned by GB, that is not for the general public, stating he didn't want to create panic. This happened when the USGS web site crashed and was down for several months and the staff removed. Did you miss it?Just why did the value of everything in North America, Europe and Russia begin to fall so far and so fast? Just where did it all go, South per chance? Follow the money and see for yourselves. Just who is willing to invest money in smoke and ash? All this happened just a couple of years ago as we all learned the fate of a Yellowstone eruption. That is those with eyes to see and those with ears to hear just what lies ahead of the will of GOD.
     
  18. JLMichaels

    JLMichaels New Member

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    Standing corrected before GOD and man on the seven full years of tribulation. There are only 1260 days of judgment and tribulation in the last days of the church age. So as America is the first to be judged by GOD, start counting the 1260 days of these days of GOD's wrath. For there are an additional 1290 of judgment and tribulation a the very end of the millennium era. See new post in bible prophecy forum on the seven years of judgments and tribulation. Thank you.
     
  19. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    I dont think anyone said there was no tribulation ..Of course there is a tribulation ..But there is no Rapture it isnt in the Word of God it is a teaching of men God never said he was Raptureing anybody ... He comes the second time once ...at the End of the tribulation .... 7th trump (last) not knowing this fact will lead you straight into the arms of Antichrist(Satan)read the truth of where this came from it wasnt Godhttp://www.scionofzion.com/pretrib_rapture_diehards.htm
     
  20. Polar

    Polar New Member

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    "OUR FATHER, WHO ART IN HEAVEN, HOLY BE YOUR NAME, THY KINGDOM COME, THEY WILL BE DONE, ON EARTH!!!!! - JLMichaelsYou left off the "one earth as it is in heaven" portion. -- Perhaps you should try that again."Thy kingdom come," -then-"They will be done, on earth as it is in heaven."It comprises two seperate statements. My Applied Linguistics professor would point out that if both "Thy kingdom come" and "Thy will be done" were meant to be taken together, then it would say, "On earth AS THEY ARE in Heaven."The "as it is in heaven" portion implies connectivity with the single statement immediately before it...."Thy will be done."This reminds me of a book called, "The Rapture Exposed" where the writer, Barbara Rossing, tries to use the same verse in the same way. She argues that God isn't going to call Christians away but is going to come to them and they will all live together on this earth.She says, "Thy kingdom come, on earth as it is in heaven." She conveniently omits the, "thy will be done" portion.She states that proves there will be no widespread destruction on earth...because God expects us to keep it in livable shape for his return.
     
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