RAPTURE

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Christina

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Apr 10, 2006
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Well I dont know about all that but scripture is very clear that Christ is coming to earth and rule here ... No one is flying Away anywhere ..flesh and blood can not enter Heaven and Satan is prince of the air ... God tells us there is nothing new under the sun and he will protect his own ... by the Blood of Lamb just as he did in Egypt. Our Lamb is Jesus Christ. God never says he flying anyone anywhere in fact he doesn't like people you teach his children they are going to fly(away) .. he relates it to the quick of hand magic tricks used by sorcerers. Remember when you have seen the magician put the handkerchief over his hands or his hat a magically pulls out a rabbit or a bouquet of flowers ... This is the type thing he compares Raptures flyaway doctrine to(Eze. 13:20-21)
 

Polar

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Apr 10, 2009
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"For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord." -- 1 Thess 4:16-17,^^^^^ Okay, so we aren't 'flying away' anywhere. Then what are we doing? We are going to join him in the air...to come right back down to earth?If so, I would think that would be after the world as we know it goes through some major changes.
 

Jordan

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Apr 6, 2007
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"For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord." -- 1 Thess 4:16-17,^^^^^ Okay, so we aren't 'flying away' anywhere. Then what are we doing? We are going to join him in the air...to come right back down to earth?If so, I would think that would be after the world as we know it goes through some major changes.
First of all, I Thessalonians 4:16-17 is not meant to taken in a literal meaning. It is a spiritual meaning to that.Clouds = Body of witnesses (Hebrews 12:1)Air = spirits (Ephesians 2:2)Earth is our home and we won't leave the place God intended us to live in. (Ezekiel 13:20) Hope that clears up some confusions... As Satan is the prince of evil spirits.And mankind (in spirit) lives when Dinosaurs existed on Earth. (Job 40:15-24)
 

Christina

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First of all lets understand the facts .. The Church here at Thess. was 3 weeks old and Paul had to flee for his life..(historical fact)It was made up of Jew and gentile they had heard a rumor Christ had returned and the subject of this chapter and their concern was where are dead? If Christ had returned where were their dead loved ones ? as they are said to rise first ... Timothy then reports this error based on rumor to Paul ... Who immediately pens 2 Thess. to correct them ... What does he say to them? He tells about our gather to the Lord..Do not be confused in spirit or by letter or words (rumors) ect it will not happen until AFTER ... the man of sin (Antichrist)Paul is telling them the dead will be raised first and we will meet Christ ...but when .. Paul tells you here its after the Antichrist after the tribulation at his second coming ..When is his second coming at the 7th(last) trump. There is nothing in first Thess. that says Christ comes to gather anyone before the tribulation... ... 2 Thessalonians 2 1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these thingsHe is clearly telling us about our gather to the Lord not to be confused or troubled by what they have heard the falling away (from the true Christ/the Word of God will not happen until after the man of sin (Antichrist) that wants to set himself up as christ/Godthis is Satan(Antichrist) And we may raise to meet him when he comes but it will be short lived as he is coming here to reign and rule at the last (7th trump)http://biblestudy.madmooseforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=88
 

Pariah

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Nov 10, 2007
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"For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord." -- 1 Thess 4:16-17,^^^^^ Okay, so we aren't 'flying away' anywhere. Then what are we doing? We are going to join him in the air...to come right back down to earth?If so, I would think that would be after the world as we know it goes through some major changes.
People that oppose the rapture needs to explain this promise:John 14:1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. 4And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know. 5Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? 6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.Where is the Father? In Heaven.Where is the Father's house? In Heaven.Where is Jesus now? In Heaven.Where is the place Jesus promised to bring us to? In Heaven.Judgment must fall on the House of God first.Matthew 21: 21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.1 Peter 4: 16Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf. 17For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?Notice the supper for the first watch only?Luke 12: 37Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them. 38And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants. Luke 13:24Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. 25When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: 26Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. 27But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. 28There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. 29And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God. 30And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.Because of false prophets, very few will find the faith before His appearing.The foolish virgins, those that followed a stranger's voice, those that climb up another way instead of coming to the Son for life will be known as workers of iniquity. Every child God the Father receives, He will chasten and scourge so that they may be partakers of His holiness for Jesus will finish His work even on those left behind as they will be one fold and one shepherd as He will lose none.Just as Jesus taught excommunication, so will judgment falling on the House of God will serve.. to the destruction of the flesh. Even the churches was taught this.1 Corinthians 5:4In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 6Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?How can the rapture not be seen as serving to that end for the wayward believers to go through the great tribulation?Revelation 2:20Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 21And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.Those that are ready and found abiding in Him shall not go through the great tribulation. Again, the great tribulation serves as chastening the wayward.Revelation 3: 10Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. 11Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. 12Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. 13He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. 2 Timothy 2:19Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. 22Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart. So that is why the rapture is before the great tribulation as it is judgment falling on the House of God due to the falling away of the faith which is why the despensing of the Gospel went back to the Jews, the 144,000 witnesses, after the rapture.Many may get the concept of the rapture wrong, but judgment is coming. The call is to be ready and trusting Jesus to be found abiding in Him.
 

BenTobijah

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Apr 11, 2009
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People that oppose the rapture ...the concept of the rapture wrong, but judgment is coming. The call is to be ready and trusting Jesus to be found abiding in Him.
So, Pariah, you wait for your “rapture!” See ya later.
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Listening to you, reading this whole web site lately, is like studying Job, "... words without knowledge."
 

gumby

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May 29, 2009
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Ezekiel 13:20 "Therefore, thus says the lord god, behold i am against your magic bands by which you hunt lives there as birds and i will tear them from your arms; and I will let them go, even those lives whom you hunt as birds"I dont beleive in the rapture theory at all.
 

Polar

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Apr 10, 2009
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Listening to you, reading this whole web site lately, is like studying Job, "... words without knowledge." -- BenTobijah-- If you were to peruse a number of your posts here you would see you were just as big a contributor of "words without knowledge" as those you wish to criticize.First plank THEN splinter.
 

BEB1956

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JordanThere will be a new heaven and a new earth and a new Jerusalem. Why? For GOD in all His glory will be with man forever. This means Father, Son and Holy Spirit face to face with man forever. One on one personal relationship with one and all of GOD's created. GOD is first last and forever pure and Holy within no darkness dwells nor can come before Him. All of the present heaven, sun, stars, moons etc. are defiled by sin for being objects of false worship. This present planet is completely covered with sinful innocent blood and this includes GOD's present temple in Heaven itself, as it is defiled by sin, as Job clearly states, this man of sin, Satan, appears before the LORD of Hosts, in Heaven.Now you should see more clearly the need for the new heaven of unsin stained stars and planets. The new unsin stained earth to call home and a new Heavenly temple, the New Jerusalem where all now in sinless prefection will dwell with GOD as one, forever. Once again this is not possible with the present sin stained of all that we have now. We can never walk with GOD here as Adam and Eve first did because of sin and sin alone. To make this possible once again, thus, the new of everything. At the very end of days on this present planet, will all need to die again to enter the new reality? No. We will all be changed into sinless immortal flesh and raptured into the new for sin and death are destroyed forever by this very act.Thank you for staying true to the LORD and GOD of All for not falling for this lie from the pit of all sin.My the LORD and GOD of ALL continue to bless you and all, forever more.

I know that there are many people who believe that Jesus will stand on earth as a man again at his second coming or presence, but I don't believe that because Jesus needed to be human only once which was to die for the sins of man, he need not be human to rule earth he can do that from heaven. The rapture that most people believe in I don't see in the scriptures. What I see for the hope for mankind who have died is the resurrection hope. Those that talk about being changed in the twinkling of an eye I believe are talking about the resurrection( 1 Corinthians 15: 50-53). Also at 1 Thessalonians 4: 13- 17 where many people believe the scriptures are talking about a rapture I believe they are actually speaking of a resurrection. According to Romans 6: 3-5 and 1 Corinthians 15: 35,36,44 I believe those who are heaven bound must die to get there.