Re: About Doctors

[Hillsage]

YOU SAID

I've heard numerous people claim "God gave us doctors"

And I gave you a testimony as to how God did that very thing with me? Your response was NADA.????

That's a problem I have when dealing with those who don't believe God gives the 12 supernatural giftings to those who are truly "Spiritual". Read this verse below without adding the word that Fundamentalist and cessasionist translators couldn't 'in truth' even relate to, so they added their own lie with the word 'gifts'.

1CO 12:1 Now concerning spiritual (gifts), brethren, I would not have you ignorant.

The italicized word above is MISSING in the Greek, but added by translators who were as spiritually devoid, as MOST of the church in America today. Especially so regarding SUPERNATURAL POWER to heal. That's why the majority church of USA have overly emphasised on the 'get people saved' Great Commission, but never matured in the spiritual realm of even being taught CORRECTLY on how to get healed by the supernatural gift of healing....in that same Great Commission.
QUESTION; And I assume your church is doing no better either RIGHT?

Unfortunately the Charismatic and Pentecostals aren't doing much better, but it's better than you apparently.

That's why I asked you in my last post:

Hillsage said; QUESTION; How often do you even get asked to pray for someone because they've heard of your success? "

Your response was NADA.
QUESTION; Come on tell us ALL how good you're doing in this area?

Which of course is why most Christians have the same problems with sickness and disease destroying them as those out in the world (non Christians)

Actually most of what you just said isn't true.
QUESTION: Where did you get that information above? Quit wafflling and answer my direct questions.

GOOGLE said; "Studies suggest that while
Christians do not have immunity to diseases, active Christians often experience better health outcomes and lower mortality rates compared to non-Christians. This is primarily linked to healthier, lower-risk lifestyles, such as lower rates of smoking and drinking, along with stronger social support"

I can. I posted God's promises.

Sadly many Christians have no interest in standing on God's promises.

God says His people perish for a lack of knowledge (Hosea 4:6) and where there is no vision / understanding the people perish (Proverbs 29:18). Oh well...to bad so sad.

Hosea also says what that lack of knowledge is in regard to; "BECOMING PRIESTS". And the priests were the ones who the ones the sick went to in the OT.

HOS 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

The fundamentalist and cessasionist teaching has disqualified 'that part of the church' for healing, right off the bat.
QUESTION? What "church" denomination do you belong to? Or do you not go anywhere?

I'll stand with the Lord before standing with mankind trying to get people well apart from the Lord using darkened wisdom that has led man to reject the Lord or to follow carnal minded religious teachings from the devil that are in opposition to what the Lord teaches in His Word.

Carnal minded teaching is epidemic in the WHOLE church, so share with us your statistics.

That's just me. Everyone else is going to do whatever it is they are going to do and I won't be joining them.

If you have nothing to offer but condemnation here, what help are you here?
Even your signature line warns....."you know not what spirit you are of". IMO.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Wisdom comes from God

Not all wisdom comes from God.

The devil's wisdom leads people to be in opposition to the Lord since he is corrupt.

Consequently the devil's wisdom is not from God.

Medical science is experimentation based on carnal, fallen man's abilities apart from God.

Do know there are actually Christian doctors , nurses and other medical professionals ?

Yes, and they do not go by what God says in His Word.

Instead they go by their medical training which is experimentation based on carnal, fallen man's abilities apart from God.

Are you going to tell me that God does not use them to help facilitate healing ?

I'd like to see you show me in scripture where the Lord says this or otherwise instructs His people to go get a doctor's appointment.

If it is true God gave us doctors then there should be at least one example in scripture where Jesus declined to heal someone and instead told the person needing healing to make an appointment with Dr Luke.

The ball is in your court... prove from scripture that I should go to the doctor rather than trusting the Lord for my health

I will explain again to you there IS NO healing apart from the Lord

That's just your opinion with no scripture to back it up. God never says He gave man doctors or medical science not do we see Jesus or His Apostles instructing anyone to go make a doctor's appointment and that healing would come thru doctors.

Mankind is doing all kinds of things apart from the Lord at varying levels of success and most people in this world reject the Lord refusing to have anything to do with him.

@Big Boy Johnson , do you understand there is no healing apart from God ? Or do you need even more explanation ?

I'm waiting on you to prove this from scripture.

So far you are coming up short.

To suggest that God has never given insight to medical professionals is statement you have absolutely no proof of .

You cannot prove from scripture He did give them insight.

All you are providing is your opinion with no scripture to back it up.

FYI for you , you might want to think about a tattoo to that effect of preempting treatment . Heaven forbid , If medical professionals or even trained first responders happen to come upon a passed out unresponsive @Big Boy Johnson they will begin "practicing " on you , implied consent they call it .

So in your view God cannot provide health for me so I'll never be passed out and unresponsive?

Is the hand of the Lord shortened where some things are not possible to them that believe in your view?

And I gave you a testimony as to how God did that very thing with me? Your response was NADA.????

You never provided any scripture to back up your opinion that God refused to heal you Himself and instead provided healing thru doctors.

All you did was give your opinion which no scripture to back it up.

I've asked for scripture showing God gave man doctors. Your response was NADA.???? Whassup wit dat anyhow?

That's a problem I have when dealing with those who don't believe God gives the 12 supernatural giftings

Doctors using the wisdom and abilities of fallen mankind to try and heal is certainly not using the gifts of the Spirit.

Jesus is the standard for walking in the gifts of the Spirit and when He provided healing it was directly thru the power of the anointing of the Holy and not thru doctors.

Unless you found someplace in the gospels where Jesus declined to heal someone and instead told them to go make a doctors appointment? If you found such an example of Jesus doing this then by all means post the scripture reference.

The italicized word above is MISSING in the Greek, but added by translators who were as spiritually devoid, as MOST of the church in America today.

Spiritually devoid of understanding in deed!

That's why they all trust doctors for health and healing instead of the Lord.

That's why the majority church of USA have overly emphasised on the 'get people saved' Great Commission, but never matured in the spiritual realm of even being taught CORRECTLY on how to get healed by the supernatural gift of healing....in that same Great Commission.

Yeah so show me from scripture where Jesus said "go maketh thyself an appointment with the doctors for healing" as part of the Great Commission

Jesus is the standard for supernatural healing and He healed thru the power of the Holy Spirit and not thru doctors.

You are very confused concerning the gifts of the Holy Spirit on the topic of health and healing.

Unfortunately the Charismatic and Pentecostals aren't doing much better, but it's better than you apparently.

I'm well and have remained well thru the direct power of God's Word as well as walking in His Wisdom.

I'm doing great! Thanks for asking homie. It is quite touching that you care so deeply

Your response was NADA.
QUESTION; Come on tell us ALL how good you're doing in this area?

I don't go out publicly proclaiming to be a faith healer.
I start off with speaking to people about getting born again as that comes first before getting them well.

If they get well and go to hell, what good is that?

Once I do get opportunity to speak to someone who has been born again that isn't so rebellious against the things of God's Word that they are willing to hear some scripture I seek to teach them to be dependent upon the Lord instead of trying to make them dependent upon me.

True Christians would want people to have their own direct relationship with the Father thru Jesus Christ by the Holy Spirit based on what God says in His Word.

I can teach people how to be well, but it's going to have to be them having their own relationship with the Lord and the first order of business is to get them to repent and depart from walking in false doctrine which is what the majority of churches and preachers are teaching these days.

That's when most folks get upset and walk away and I let them walk away just like the Lord lets them walk away. You did notice in the Gospels that Jesus was not chasing the religious people around trying to get them to understand. Nope. He declared the Truth (God's Word) and when they rejected God's Word and walked away He let them do so.

GOOGLE said

Enjoy thy journey trusting in the darkened wisdom of the blind mind of mankind.
Too bad you didn't quote God's Word... nope, you be all quoting google and stuff

QUESTION? What "church" denomination do you belong to? Or do you not go anywhere?

Ah, deploying the old "lookie over there, a squirrel" diversion tactic.

Let's keep our focus on what the Lord says in His Word shall we?

Since you obvious cannot prove from scripture that the Lord instructs anybody to trust in doctors rather than trusting in God for their health and healing all you have is opinions with no scripture to back them up.

So you can continue to divert attention from the topic and try to make it about me and I'll just ignore you and your deploying the old "lookie over there, a squirrel" diversion tactic.

Carnal minded teaching is epidemic in the WHOLE church, so share with us your statistics.

I go by God's Word that warns about false teachers

Feel free to use the wisdom of blind mankind to find the "statistics" you desire.

I'd advise you to trust in what God says in His Word but so far that's obviously a no go.

If you have nothing to offer but condemnation

I'm going by what God says in His Word.

Others walking after the wisdom of man are the ones walking after the flesh which is condemnation

Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus
who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit

 

[amigo de christo]

Paul was not healed, Timothy was not healed, Trophimus was not healed... at least it is not recorded in Scriptures, only their sickness.

It seems that the gift of miraculous healing was manifested rather for the sake of spreading the gospel into new territories, instead of being some personal guarantee of health for all Christians.

this is partly co rrect . but also let us notice
that if some did get sick that sometimes it was due to sin .
NOT ALWAYS THOUGH . cause ephaphras got so sick he nearly died
doing the work of the LORD .
However in james and etc
If any of you be sick
go to the elders , let them pray and annoint you with OIL in the name of the LORD
and if he has committed sins they shall be forgiven him .
Paul got a thorn for a specific reason .
SO that he wo uld not be exalted ABOVE measure . HE did pray three times for it to be removed
BUT when GOD told him what HE DID
paul realized it would not be removed .
yes , christains can and do get sick . SO the health n wealth prosperitiy doc trine is a sham . THEY jus desired money
so they do as they do and lie and they lie .
I would say FIRST and foremost , TRUST IN GOD , PRAY , have others pray .
And yes its not a sin to go to the doctors . BUT never T RUST IN them , SIMPLY TRUST IN GOD .
because what i now write is a solid fact .
Did you know that many do go to doctors , SOME get healed some dont .
NOW why is that . THEY ALL USE the same met hod of chemo or etc .
And the answer is , BECAUSE GOD healed them . no doctor can save the life of a man
IF the mans time was up . THUS truly GOD is IN CONT ROL and ITS HE who ought to be TRUS TED in .
But again i am NOT saying its sin to go to the doctor . JUST REMIDNING us
THAT TOO MANY SEEM TO TRUSTING in man , NOT GOD .
they are just men . IN THE END it is G OD WHO HEALS and GOD WH O KEEPS alive , OR GOD who takes one home .
WELL if they BELEIVED IN JESUS . cause any othe rreligoin , oh dear they AINT GONNA LIKE TH IER END . no sir
THAT IS NOT A GOOD END for an y who rejected JESUS THE CHRIST . OH dear , let me say it again
NOT A GOOD END AT ALL for t hose who rejected CHRIST . not a good end at all . ONLY JESUS saves
and TO BE SAVED one MUST BELIEVE IN HIM .

 

[talons]

Not all wisdom comes from God.

The devil's wisdom leads people to be in opposition to the Lord since he is corrupt.

Consequently the devil's wisdom is not from God.

All wisdom God gives is true wisdom .

Since Satan is a liar all he can give is false wisdom .

Don't go off thinking wisdom and knowledge are the same thing .

So in your view God cannot provide health for me so I'll never be passed out and unresponsive?

Is the hand of the Lord shortened where some things are not possible to them that believe in your view?

DISCLAIMER : All of @talons FYI are just that , usually they are wisdom I will offer from experience . Know when to hold 'em , know when to fold 'em .

I'd like to see you show me in scripture where the Lord says this or otherwise instructs His people to go get a doctor's appointment.

If it is true God gave us doctors then there should be at least one example in scripture where Jesus declined to heal someone and instead told the person needing healing to make an appointment with Dr Luke.

The ball is in your court... prove from scripture that I should go to the doctor rather than trusting the Lord for my health

Did doctors make appointment's back then ?

Luke 5:31 Context​

28And he left all, rose up, and followed him. 29And Levi made him a great feast in his own house: and there was a great company of publicans and of others that sat down with them. 30But their scribes and Pharisees murmured against his disciples, saying, Why do ye eat and drink with publicans and sinners? 31And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick. 32I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. 33And they said unto him, Why do the disciples of John fast often, and make prayers, and likewise the disciples of the Pharisees; but thine eat and drink? 34And he said unto them, Can ye make the children of the bridechamber fast, while the bridegroom is with them?

@Big Boy Johnson , do you understand there is no healing apart from God ? Or do you need even more explanation ?

Thought so . Link below , God's design at work , no healing apart from God .

7 Surprising Ways Your Body Can Heal Itself

The cells in your body have way more turnover than you realized, regenerating to keep your system strong—even after injury.

www.thehealthy.com

I'm waiting on you to prove this from scripture.

So far you are coming up short.

Psalm 139:13-16 KJV​

13 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother’s womb. 14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well. 15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.

Jeremiah 1:5 KJV​

5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.



Where does your healing come from ?

My healing comes from God and His design of my body . There is no healing apart from God .

Instead they go by their medical training which is experimentation based on carnal, fallen man's abilities apart from God.

Do you have any medical training ? Do you have first aid training ?

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Don't go off thinking wisdom and knowledge are the same thing

Medical science operates in wisdom and knowledge that does not come from God.

But feel free to trust in doctors putting them before the Lord.

DISCLAIMER : All of @talons FYI are just that

Yes, just your opinions that are not based on what the Lord teaches in His Word.

Did doctors make appointment's back then ?

Luke 5:31 Context​

Yes, the entire point to my post on this topic - The Lord is the Great Physician, not man

And we have a part to play in our own health as well beyond going to a doctors with fingers crossed hoping they know what they are doing when so many times they are clueless. Well meaning, but clueless

Psalm 147:3
He heals the brokenhearted
And binds up their wounds

Luke 4:23
And He said to them, “No doubt you will quote this proverb to Me, ‘Physician, heal yourself! Whatever we heard was
done at Capernaum, do here in your hometown as well

Luke 5:30-32
But their scribes and Pharisees murmured against his disciples, saying, Why do ye eat and drink with publicans and
sinners?
And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick.
I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

James 5:14,15
Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in
the name of the Lord:
And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be
forgiven him.

Jeremiah 30:17
I will restore you to health and heal your wounds

Proverbs 17:22
A cheerful heart is good medicine, but a crushed spirit dries up the bones

Proverbs 3:7-8
Do not be wise in your own eyes; fear the LORD and shun evil. This will bring health to your body and nourishment to
your bones

2 Chronicles 16:12,13
And Asa in the thirty and ninth year of his reign was diseased in his feet, until his disease was exceeding great: yet in his
disease he sought not to the LORD, but to the physicians.
And Asa slept with his fathers, and died in the one and fortieth year of his reign.

Job 13:4
But ye are forgers of lies, ye are all physicians of no value.

Mark 5:26
And had suffered many things of many physicians, and had spent all that she had, and was nothing
bettered, but rather grew worse,

Luke 8:43
And a woman having an issue of blood twelve years, which had spent all her living upon physicians, neither
could be healed of any,

Doctors couldn't help this woman and took all her money... but Jesus could help her.

That's the lesson boys and girls!

Trust the Lord not doctors.

no healing apart from God

Great, so you have no need to gamble with doctors then who offer nothing more than experimentation using the carnal wisdom of blind mankind?

Where does your healing come from ?

My healing comes from God and His design of my body . There is no healing apart from God .

Great, so you have no need to gamble with doctors then who offer nothing more than experimentation using the carnal wisdom of blind mankind?

You'll be acknowledging the Lord and no longer rolling the dice with doctors trusting in them for healing?

Do you have any medical training ? Do you have first aid training ?

I have something that is far far better than any of that!

I have a close personal relationship with the Lord God Almighty thru Jesus Christ by the Holy Spirit based on the all powerful Word of the Living God.

You question is quite comical actually.

I'm not in favor of man's attempts to try and heal apart from the Lord so why on earth would I get training in failure when I can instead have a close personal relationship with the Lord God Almighty thru Jesus Christ by the Holy Spirit based on the all powerful Word of the Living God... and live in VICTORY in every area of life???

 

[talons]

Should Christians go to doctors? | GotQuestions.org

Should Christians go to doctors? Does going to a medical doctor demonstrate a lack of faith in God’s healing power?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[Mosheli]

I don't think it is necessarily wrong to use Drs and medicine. God gave us various herbs etc for healing/health. Everyone has different gifts/talents/specialised abilities/training, and we respect authority. Some say that the verse in James? about anointing sick with oil relates to oil being a medicine in those days? The OT cleanliness laws are confirmed in modern times cleanliness and germ theory etc.

But I'd agree with being very careful and in having faith first in God and preventing by not sinning, eating good, exercising, etc (taking care of body temple of spirit) and not trusting in man/science (man trying to become like gods without God). Daniel had a good diet of pulses etc. We shouldn't test the Lord expecting to be healed from things we do or don't do like eating bad, sinning, etc?

Interestingly Laodicea in Revelation 3 was a centre of Asclepius (god of medicine) worship. Pharmacia "witchcraft" is part of end times signs prophecy.

The bible also says that there will come days when they shall desire/yearn/long to see days of son of man, implying that we don't have the healings etc they had in Jesus ministry times?

I don't believe in 'Christian Science' though.

For myself I've long tried to have faith to be healed/delivered but not been able to have enough belief/faith or whatever other reasons, and I still haven't yet been delivered from my OCD and other conditions and other external hell situation/circumstances for over 20 or so years.
Part of the problem is hyper-individualism and lack of love, compassion, intercession/prayers, bearing one anothers burdens, etc in church/christians.

Does God protect us from effects of forced fluoridation etc?

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

But I'd agree with being very careful and in having faith first in God and preventing by not sinning, eating good, exercising, etc (taking care of body temple of spirit) and not trusting in man/science (man trying to become like gods without God). Daniel had a good diet of pulses etc. We shouldn't test the Lord expecting to be healed from things we do or don't do like eating bad, sinning, etc?

Yes, walking in God's Wisdom is a gigantic part of being well physically as well as mentally and spiritually.

The bible also says that there will come days when they shall desire/yearn/long to see days of son of man, implying that we don't have the healings etc they had in Jesus ministry times?

Not implying Jesus changes and no longer Heals today as He did back then.

However it does for those that believe that because in believing that they just turned away from God's promises concerning health and healing. Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today, and forever.

Does God protect us from effects of forced fluoridation etc?

All things are possible to Him that believes - Mark 9:23

I still haven't yet been delivered from my OCD

Your faith is in you having OCD instead of having faith in Jesus taking OCD on Himself at the Cross so you don't have to have it.

One must change what they believe, think, say, and act like over to believing what the Lord did for them rather than what they have now if they are ever going to be delivered from what they have now.

The just shall walk by faith not be sight - 2 Corinthians 5:7, Hebrews 10:38, Habakkuk 2:4

 

[Rockerduck]

Several years ago a doctor put on some drug and told me I could have a heart attack if I didn't take it. I took it. A couple of years later the Holy Spirit told me the drug was making me sick. I threw all of in the trash and told the Lord I was trusting in Him from now on.
Jeremiah 17:5 -
Thus says the Lord,
“Cursed is the man who trusts in mankind
And makes flesh his strength,
And whose heart turns away from the Lord.

I agree with Big Boy.

Proverbs 3:5-6 -
Trust in the Lord with all your heart
And do not lean on your own understanding.
In all your ways acknowledge Him,
And He will make your paths straight.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

I agree with Big Boy.

Let's both agree with the Lord that He is fully capable of providing the power and wisdom for us to take our own health in to our hands under His guidance and leadership and the end result is we are well spirit, soul, and body. It's our Father's great pleasure to give us the Kingdom (Luke 12:32) this includes Himself and all He has to offer!

1 Thessalonians 5:23
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Mark 9:23
Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.

Isaiah 54:17
No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.

And let's not forget to meditate, speak, and act on on Psalms 91

Psalms 91:1-16 (see Luke 10:19, 1 John 2:6, James 4:7)
He that dwells in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty....I will say of the LORD, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in Him will I trust....surely He shall deliver you from the snare of the fowler (devil), and from the noisome pestilence (wicked and perverse plagues)....He shall cover you with his feathers, and under his wings you shall trust: His truth (God’s Word) shall be your shield and buckler....you shall not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flies by day....nor for the pestilence (plague, disease) that walks in darkness; nor for the destruction that wastes at noonday....a thousand shall fall at your side, and ten thousand at your right hand; but it shall not come near you....only with your eyes shall you look and see the reward of the wicked....because you have made the LORD, which is My refuge, even the most High, your habitation....there shall no evil come near you, neither shall any plague come near your dwelling....for He shall give his angels charge over you, to keep you in all your ways....they shall bear (help, hold up) you up in their hands, lest you stumble your foot against a stone....you shall tread upon the lion and adder (the twisted): the young lion and the dragon (serpent) you shall trample under foot....because he hath set his love upon Me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high, because he has known My Name....he shall call upon Me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honor him....with long life will I satisfy him, and show him my salvation (deliverance).

The old devil is crying now....

 

[Aunty Jane]

Several years ago a doctor put on some drug and told me I could have a heart attack if I didn't take it. I took it. A couple of years later the Holy Spirit told me the drug was making me sick. I threw all of in the trash and told the Lord I was trusting in Him from now on.
Jeremiah 17:5 -
Thus says the Lord,
“Cursed is the man who trusts in mankind
And makes flesh his strength,
And whose heart turns away from the Lord.

I agree with Big Boy.

Proverbs 3:5-6 -
Trust in the Lord with all your heart
And do not lean on your own understanding.
In all your ways acknowledge Him,
And He will make your paths straight.

Anyone with an internet connection can research any drug and its side effects, that the current medical establishment will want to put us on....the bigger the cocktail the more profit they make for themselves and big pharma.....but it wasn’t always that way. Medical practitioners down through history, were prescribers of natural herbal remedies that have been beneficial for centuries.
It didn’t take long for greedy humans to see an opportunity to make big money out of something we often take for granted....our health.

Once they took over the medical establishment and virtually banned all “natural remedies” in favour of their chemical counterfeits, (created in a science lab) the rot set in very quickly. The propaganda worked, and the many “snake oil” remedies fell into disrepute and in some cases rightly so....but the real herbal doctors knew what was in nature to remedy most illnesses. None of them came with side effects.

We see that at the worst times in history, a poor vitamin and mineral deficient diet was at the bottom of all the health issues. Because of this, people did not have long lifespans...but as the medical system took over, and diet related issues were addressed with better choices as the human standard of living increased, no cures were ever sought....only treatments....and because these addressed only symptom control without affecting a cure for any health problem, the treatment was designed to go on for virtually the rest of your life....guaranteeing an income stream that would only become greater as ill health was perpetuated. People may have felt better, but they weren’t better.....the illness was always still there.

Unless you see the medical system today for what it is, you will remain sick, and will likewise pick up every new virus that happens to affect the world, as we saw in the last pandemic. The health system is not interested in your good health, but profits from your bad health.

That doesn’t mean that there is no one to turn to for relief with our health issues...more and more people are turning to alternative medicine for their treatments....and with way more success than they ever did with what is now called “orthodox medicine”.....the original “orthodox medicine” was grown in your own garden for free. Why else would God give us these plants if it were not for helping to deal with ill health?

Big pharma just copied them and produced a chemical imitation, and called it something else. You cannot by law patent a plant, but you can isolate a component and make a drug out of it and then sell it at an inflated price. Guess who is getting rich off our misery?

God himself provided the remedies, but the healing that took place in the first century miraculously, was only a foregleam of what was to come under the rulership of God’s Kingdom. The healing of the sick and the raising of the dead were all a demonstration of what is to come, they were never intended as permanent cures in this world. Every person who was cured of an illness back then, died from some other cause....and every dead person raised back to life, died again.....what was the point?

The devil is a deceiver and a mimic.....he imitates what God can do but on a much weaker scale....the “faith healing” of today is nowhere near as successful as it was in the days of Jesus and his apostles.....and the one thing the devil cannot imitate is resurrection. All he can do is delude people with NDE’s in the hope of perpetuating his first lie.....”you surely will not die”....
How many today hold to that belief, that is NOT found in the Bible?
There is no such thing as an immortal soul...yet every false religion holds to that belief.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Let's both agree with the Lord that He is fully capable of providing the power and wisdom for us to take our own health in to our hands under His guidance and leadership and the end result is we are well spirit, soul, and body. It's our Father's great pleasure to give us the Kingdom (Luke 12:32) this includes Himself and all He has to offer!

No doubt that “the Lord” is fully capable of making anyone well. But the thing you miss is that none of those cures or resurrections were performed on baptized believers. All were performed on unbelievers in order to bring them to Christ. The apostles did not heal each other, or themselves. They were a demonstration of things to come.....

1 Thessalonians 5:23
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

If you knew your Bible as well as you think you do, you would understand that the Scriptures you post are completely misinterpreted....to say what you want them to say...
That Scripture is actually speaking about the “spirit, soul and body” of the congregation of Christ’s disciples.
Paul is addressing the brotherhood, not individuals. Whilst the apostles were still alive, they cured the sick and raised the dead....but they did not heal believers.

Where does that leave all those “faith healing” churches of today, whose success rate is pretty pathetic....whereas the success rate in the first century was absolute. No failures.

The old devil is crying now....

He is actually laughing at your gullibility.....he has convinced you of something that is not true.....something he is gifted at doing to those who prefer ignorance over sound Bible knowledge.

 

[HealthyShape]

Yeah, obviously some of the Apostles friends and family were faithless and refuses to stand on God's Word. That's too bad for them.

Luckily for you, you understand more and have a better faith than the apostles and their direct disciples who were sacrificing and suffering for Christ every day.

They never mentioned any "promise" of physical health, while you are talking about it in almost every post. Sounds like a bit different religion, does it not?

 

[talons]

Luckily for you, you understand more and have a better faith than the apostles and their direct disciples who were sacrificing and suffering for Christ every day.

So true , he certainly gave us the verdict on Timothy , things I have never heard said about Timothy I might add .

Not a command for the entire Body of Christ. And obviously Timothy did not follow God's promises for healing.

Either Timothy is in error or God lied about His will for His people to have a way to be well thru His power.
I'll stick with Timothy being in error.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

They never mentioned any "promise" of physical health

The Lord does though in His Word.

Are you familiar with the Lord Jesus Christ and the promises He has made in His Word???

Luckily for you, you understand more and have a better faith than the apostles and their direct disciples who were sacrificing and suffering for Christ every day.

We have a distinct advantage that they did not have which is the whole counsel of God in written form.

So we should have more knowledge and understanding.

After all... we have access to the Mind of Christ (the Lord's understanding)

1 Corinthians 2:12-16
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

This is for those who have laid aside childish fake religion of so called "organized religion" so those that can't run with the Big Dawgs had better stay up on the porch with the pups and quite making idols out of the Apostles.

We are called to be like Jesus Christ... HE is our standard, not the Apostles, your pastor, or anyone else.

Ephesians 5:1
Be ye therefore imitators of God, as dear children

So true , he certainly gave us the verdict on Timothy , things I have never heard said about Timothy I might add .

You can be like Timothy and have an upset tummy, or you can be like Jesus who never got sick.

Yer call ya'll

To try and claim we cannot be well just because Timothy has a tummy ache is exactly what the old devil wants people to think so he can have an open door to strap on them some sickness and disease and laugh when they believe it;s God's will for them to be sick.

 

[Aunty Jane]

You can be like Timothy and have an upset tummy, or you can be like Jesus who never got sick.

Jesus was physically perfect and probably immune to all the sicknesses that we get in our imperfect flesh.
Jesus didn’t heal believers...only unbelievers.....can you show us Scripture that says otherwise?

To try and claim we cannot be well just because Timothy has a tummy ache is exactly what the old devil wants people to think so he can have an open door to strap on them some sickness and disease and laugh when they believe it;s God's will for them to be sick.

Good grief! Do you hear yourself?
Have you rewritten the Bible to support your own view?
Was it ever God’s will for any of us to be sick? It came with our awful inheritance from Adam....a physical body now prone to sickness, old age and death...and bad decisions......none of that was in the original plan.

Timothy was taught by the apostles directly.....who taught you? He had ongoing digestive issues the cause of which is not mentioned, but it was Paul (who had the Holy Spirit), who told him to treat his illness with wine. No mention is made of any lack on Timothy’s part, in fact Paul praised him often....and here you are attributing some personal lack on Timothy’s part, that caused him to be sick! We are all suffering from a terminal illness...it’s called sin and it causes death.....and there are so many ways to die....are you somehow immune to Adam’s legacy? (Rom 5:12)

I think you are the one who is “sick”....in ways you can’t even imagine.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Jesus didn’t heal believers...only unbelievers.....can you show us Scripture that says otherwise?

Read the rest of the New Testament and understand that healing is for believers.

Jesus taught and moved thru His Apostles as well as thru believers in general after He ascended.

Good grief! Do you hear yourself?
Have you rewritten the Bible to support your own view?

I didn't re-write anything.

God has provided for His people to be well thru Jesus Christ.

Feel free to be sick. You are advocating for being sick, so let ';er rip tator chip!

a physical body now prone to sickness

I've been bought with a price, I am not my own... I belong to the Lord and He wants me well.

He gave me the Holy Spirit and where the Spirit of the Lord is there is liberty!

Romans 8:11
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Timothy was taught by the apostles directly.....who taught you?

The Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ that's Who, unlike you JWs.

Jesus said the Holy Ghost would lead us in to ALL Truth (John 16:13),
and Jesus said God's Word IS Truth (John 17:17)

1 Corinthians 2:12
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

He had ongoing digestive issues

Too bad for him. I'm not having that in my Body which is the Temple of the Holy Spirit

It's pretty funny how people claim to be knowledgeable in God's Word and then let the devil trick them in to using Timothy as an excuse to be sick and have diseases and stuff.

and here you are attributing some personal lack on Timothy’s part

Either God's promises are fake or Timothy fell short.

I'll go with Timothy fell short and God's Word being true since God cannot lie.

By all means if you want you some sickness and disease then the devil has a storm with your name on it!

We are all suffering from a terminal illness...it’s called sin and it causes death.....

God's people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.

Of course you JWs are still suffering under sin. False doctrine enables that sort of thing.

are you somehow immune to Adam’s legacy? (Rom 5:12)

Why yes.... YES I am.

It's called repenting from your sins and getting born again and abiding IN Christ.

Jesus is not subject to death and darkness and neither am I because I'm IN Him and I'm joint heirs with Him.

1 John 5:4
For whoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

I think you are the one who is “sick”....in ways you can’t even imagine.

Yeah that's what the old devil says... but he's a liar. I just ignore him since he's clueless.

Enjoy thy false doctrine and thy sickness and disease they you believe God can't even do anything about

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Divine Health, Physical and Mental Well-being

Proverbs 4:20-23 (see John 8:51, Proverbs 5:1,2, James 1:22… Most Christians don’t do this – BIG MISTAKE!)
Attend to My words; incline your ear unto My sayings....let them not depart from your eyes; keep them in the midst of your heart....for they are life unto those that find them, and health to all their flesh....keep your heart with all diligence; for out of it flow the forces of life.

Psalms 91:9,10 (see Luke 10:19, 1 John 2:6, James 4:7)
Because you have made the LORD, which is My refuge, even the most High, your habitation;
There shall no evil fall upon you, neither shall any plague come near your household.

(only applicable to those that have submitted their lives to the Lord, walking in the Spirit by allowing God's Word to remain IN them… have I made the Lord my habitation? Am I living IN CHRIST by allowing Him to live in Me?)

1 Peter 2:24
Jesus carried our sins in his own body on the cross, so that we, being dead to sin, should live unto righteousness: by Whose stripes you were healed.

Matthew 8:17
That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.

Isaiah 53:4, 5
Jesus has carried our grief (pain, anxiety, calamity, disease, sickness), and carried our sorrows (anguish, affliction, feelings of pain, sadness and sorrow): yet we did esteem Him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted....but He was wounded (to wound, to break, be slain or killed) for our transgressions, He was bruised (crush, destroy, oppress, to collapse) for our iniquities: the punishment (violence, rebuke) of our peace was upon Him; and with His stripes we are healed. (He took our wounds, so we could take his wholeness & health in every area of life)

James 5:14,15
Is any sick among you? (there shouldn’t be) let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

(Unfortunately, it’s near impossible now to find elders that follow God’s Word that know how to pray the prayer of faith… so one MUST learn how to pray / receive directly from the Lord for themselves!... God never mentions calling a physician but instead says "the prayer of faith shall save the sick")

Exodus 15:26
If you will diligently listen to the voice of the LORD your God, and will do that which is right in His sight, and will give ear to His commandments, and keep all His statutes, I will not put (allow) any diseases upon you, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that heals you. (Walk in the Spirit – See Romans 8)

Exodus 23:24-26
You shall not bow down to their gods, nor serve them, nor do their works: but you shall utterly overthrow them, and destroy their images (cast down imaginations and every high thing, see 2 Corinthians 10:5)
And you shall serve Adonai your God, and He shall bless your food and drink; and I will take sickness away from the midst of you.
There shall nothing cast their young, nor be barren, in thy land: and you will live out the full span of your lives.

James 4:3
You ask, and receive not, because you ask wrongly, that you may use for your own fleshly desires.

*Some ask for healing with no intention of walking with the Lord (being led by His Word) and ask for themselves for their own selfish motives not being in agreement with the Lord’s purpose for their lives which is to live their lives separated unto Him (Holy) departing from the desires of this world being in agreement with Him.

James 1:5-7
If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that gives to all men liberally, in spite of their faults; and it shall be given him.
But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavers is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed… For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.

Romans 8:11
But IF the Spirit of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwells in you (allowed to live in us), He that raised up Jesus Christ from the dead shall also quicken (energize, make alive) your mortal body by His Spirit that lives in you. (see 2 Corinthians 3:17 – where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty, freedom.. this includes healing!)

 

[Aunty Jane]

Read the rest of the New Testament and understand that healing is for believers.

Perhaps YOU should read through the NT and see that healing for believers is not for this world, but for the new one to come. Three times in the Bible God had mention made of the “new heavens and new earth”, where righteousness is to dwell. (2 Peter 3:13)

Rev 21:2-4 tells us who will benefit from the rule of God’s Kingdom....

“Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.” And he who was seated on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” Also he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.” (ESV)

This is after the return of Jesus to rule in God’s Kingdom....until then we will have to endure tears and pain and suffering, till those things have “passed away”.....but not before. Where on earth do you get the idea that you can be healed in this world, when that was only a first century demonstration to bring unbelievers to Christ. You are accusing suffering Christians of some kind of failure....even a faithful man like Timothy just so you can brag about yourself. How pathetic...

I didn't re-write anything.

You suggest things that Scripture never mentions....assumptions that are not backed up in any verse of the Bible. Therefore you are writing your own Scripture....adding to God’s word. Aren’t we warned not to do that?

God has provided for His people to be well thru Jesus Christ.

Spiritually well, yes.....but not physically. There are no guarantees about physical wellness in a world ruled by the devil.....who has a vested interest in our ill health. “Globesity” being the biggest killer of humankind on the planet. How many of the western world are digging a grave with their teeth!

Of course we can achieve a measure of better health, if we eat the right foods......but that does not help those born with physical defects or inherited disorders....you overstep the Bible in that claim. None of us are immune from the defects inherited from Adam.... (Rom 5:12) ...except you apparently...

Feel free to be sick. You are advocating for being sick, so let ';er rip tator chip!

Very mature response....

I've been bought with a price, I am not my own... I belong to the Lord and He wants me well.

Seems to me you suffer from a bit of “I” trouble....you seem to have no awareness of anyone but yourself.

The Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ that's Who, unlike you JWs.

Won’t it be amazing to see who eats crow at the end of the day? (1 Cor 10:12)

Jesus said the Holy Ghost would lead us in to ALL Truth (John 16:13),

There is no such thing as a “Holy Ghost”.....that is a term invented by the church to support the trinity.
There is “God’s spirit” but it is not a person. It is the power of God, given to those whom God chooses to give it. What was poured out at Pentecost? A person?

and Jesus said God's Word IS Truth (John 17:17)

It most certainly is....but first you have to know what it teaches.....all of it.....not just cherry picked verses that seem to suggest what the rest of the Bible never mentions, like your own version of Timothy’s worthiness. What arrogance!

Too bad for him. I'm not having that in my Body which is the Temple of the Holy Spirit

It's pretty funny how people claim to be knowledgeable in God's Word and then let the devil trick them in to using Timothy as an excuse to be sick and have diseases and stuff.

Yes it is pretty funny, so why do you do that? Who told you that Timothy was somehow lacking in the spirit you claim motivates you? Do we take God’s word for that.....or yours?

Either God's promises are fake or Timothy fell short.

I'll go with Timothy fell short and God's Word being true since God cannot lie.

Either your estimations are wrong or God’s word is wrong. Nothing in God’s word suggests that Timothy was deficient in any way, resulting in physical illness. What was the “thorn” in Paul’s side?

You can “go with” whatever takes your fancy....that doesn’t make it true...

Of course you JWs are still suffering under sin. False doctrine enables that sort of thing.

False doctrines also give people a false impression of their own superiority.....not a very humble soul are you?

Why yes.... YES I am.

It's called repenting from your sins and getting born again and abiding IN Christ.

Jesus is not subject to death and darkness and neither am I because I'm IN Him and I'm joint heirs with Him.

Heaven forbid we would have anyone who exhibits your personality traits ruling over any of us....we may as well stay in this world.

Yeah that's what the old devil says... but he's a liar. I just ignore him since he's clueless.

Enjoy thy false doctrine and thy sickness and disease they you believe God can't even do anything about

I know who is presenting themselves a “clueless” and I will leave you now to your own foolishness....
Who can take anything you say seriously now......? Such delusional thinking.....

 

[HealthyShape]

The Lord does though in His Word.

Nope.

We have a distinct advantage that they did not have which is the whole counsel of God in written form.

This is quite a nonsense. The apostles were those who wrote the Scriptures and we have just few fragments from it. They were taught directly by Christ and they had special apostolic gifts from the Holy Spirit.

They had all the advantage.

And they wrote about some of them being sick, which you should call "the written counsel of God", too, if you wish to be consistent in your arguments.