Re the Deity of Yeshua HaMashiach

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

J

Johann

Guest
x SIMILAR TITLES
JEHOVAH JESUS
1. ALPHA AND OMEGA
Rev.21:6-7 I am Alpha and Omega. Rev.22:13,16 I am the Alpha and
Omega..
2. BEGINNING AND THE END
Rev.21:6,7 The beginning and the
end.
Rev.22:13,16 The beginning and the
end..
3. FIRST AND LAST
Is.44:6 I am the first, and I am the
last
And besides me there is God.
Rev.1:17 I am the first and the last.:
Rev 22:13
I am Alpha and Omega, the
beginning and the end, the first and
the last.
4. ALMIGHTY
Gen.17:1 I am the Almighty God.. Rev.1:8…………The Almighty
5. I AM
Ex.3:14 I am that I am. Jn.8:58 Before Abraham was, I am..
6. MIGHTY GOD
Is.10:21 The remnant shall return
even
The remnant of Jacob, unto the
Mighty God.
Is.9:6 The Mighty God
7. KING OF KINGS
1 Tim.6:15 The King of Kings; and
Lord of Lords.
Rev.19:13,16…..And hath on his
vesture
and on his thigh a name written
King of Kings and Lord of Lords
8. SHEPHERD
Ez.34:23 And I will set up one
shepherd over them, and he shall
feed them, even my servant David;
he shall feed them, and he shall be
their shepherd.
Ps.23:1 The Lord is my Shepherd, I
shall not want. .
Jn.10:11 I am the good Shepherd
S - STANDARDS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS

SIMILAR IN HOLINESS, FAITHFULNESS, WISDOM, TRUTH AND LOVE.
O - OBEISANCE AND WORSHIP
JEHOVAH JESUS
1. BENDING OF KNEES
Isa 45:22-23
22Look unto me, and be ye saved,
all the ends of the earth: for I am
God, and there is none else.
23 I have sworn by myself, the word
is gone out of my mouth in
righteousness, and shall not return,
That unto me every knee shall bow,
every tongue shall swear.
Phil 2:9-11
9Wherefore God also hath highly
exalted him, and given him a name
which is above every name:
10That at the name of Jesus every
knee should bow, of things in
heaven, and things in earth, and
things under the earth;
11And that every tongue should
confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.
2. ADORATION
Rev 4:1
11Thou art worthy, O Lord, to
receive glory and honour and
power: for thou hast created all
things, and for thy pleasure they
are and were created.
Rev 5:12-13
12Saying with a loud voice,
Worthy is the Lamb that was slain
to receive power, and riches, and
wisdom, and strength, and
honour, and glory, and blessing.
13And every creature which is in
heaven, and on the earth, and
under the earth, and such as are
in the sea, and all that are in them,
heard I saying, Blessing, and
honour, and glory, and power, be
unto him that sitteth upon the
throne, and unto the Lamb for
ever and ever.
3. SERVICE
Jos.24:24 The Lord our God will we
serve, and
Him will we obey.
Col.3:24 For ye serve the Lord
Christ.
4. PROSTRATION
Gen.17:3, Deut.9:18 Rev.1:17, Rev.5:8
5. PRAYER
Ps. 65:2 1 Cor.1:2, Jn.14:14
6. CONFESSION

I King 8:33
33When thy people Israel be
smitten down before the enemy,
because they have sinned against
thee, and shall turn again to thee,
and confess thy name, and pray,
and make supplication unto thee in
this house:
Rom 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy
mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt
believe in thine heart that God
hath raised him from the dead,
thou shalt be saved.
7. THANKSGIVING
Ne.12:46,
Ps.50:14
1 Tim. 1:12
8. ANGELIC WORSHIP
Neh. 9:6 Thou preservest them all;
and the
Host of heaven worshipped thee.
Heb.1:6 And let all the angels of
God worship Him.
T – TASKS (DEEDS)
SIMILAR UNIQUE DEEDS:
JEHOVAH JESUS
1. FORGIVENESS
Jer.31:34
For I will forgive their iniquity,
And I will remember their sin no
more.
Luke 5:20 Man thy sins are
forgiven thee.
2. CREATION
Gen.1:1
In the beginning God created the
Heaven and the earth
Heb.1:10 Thou Lord in the
beginning hast laid the
foundation of the earth; and the
Heavens are the works of thine
hands.
Col. 1:16 For by Him were all
things created that are in heaven,
and that are in Earth… all things
were created by Him, and for Him
3. JUDGEMENT
Ps 96:13
Before the LORD: for he cometh, for
he cometh to judge the earth: he
shall judge the world with
righteousness, and the people with
his truth.
Jn.5:22 For the Father judgeth no
man,buthath committed all
judgement unto the Son.
4. INDWELLS BELIEVERS
2 Cor 6:16
And what agreement hath the
temple of God with idols? for ye are
Col.1:27 To whom God will make
known
what is riches of the glory of this

the temple of the living God; as
God hath said, I will dwell in them,
and walk in them; and I will be their
God, and they shall be my people.
mystery
among them Gentiles; which is
Christ
in you, the hope of glory.
Gal 2:20
I am crucified with Christ:
nevertheless I live; yet not I, but
Christ liveth in me: and the life
which I now live in the flesh I live
by the faith of the Son of God,
who loved me, and gave himself
for me.
E - ESSENTIAL ATTRIBUTES
JEHOVAH JESUS
1. OMNIPRESENT
Jer 23:24
Can any hide himself in secret places
that I shall not see him? saith the
LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth?
saith the LORD.
Matt 18:20
For where two or three are
gathered together in my name,
there am I in the midst of them.
2. OMNIPOTENT
Rev.19:6
Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent
reigneth.
Mt.28:18 All power is given unto
me in heaven and on earth.
3. OMNISCIENT
Heb 4:13
Neither is there any creature that is
not manifest in his sight: but all
things are naked and opened unto
the eyes of him with whom we have
to do.
Col 2:3
In whom are hid all the treasures
of wisdom and knowledge.
4. UNCHANGING
Mal 3:6
For I am the LORD, I change not;
therefore ye sons of Jacob are not
consumed.
Heb 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday,
and to day, and for ever.
5. ETERNAL/EVERLASTING
Jer.10:10
But the Lord is the true God, he is
the
Living God, and an Everlasting King
Rom.16:26 The Everlasting God.
Isa 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto
us a son is given: and the
government shall be upon his
shoulder: and his name shall be
called Wonderful, Counsellor,

The mighty God, The everlasting
Father, The Prince of Peace.
Mark 5:2 Jn.1:1,2
6. RIGHTEOUS
Ps 7:9
Oh let the wickedness of the wicked
come to an end; but establish the
just: for the righteous God trieth the
hearts and reins.
Ps 116:5
Gracious is the LORD, and righteous;
yea, our God is merciful.
I Jn 2:1
My little children, these things
write I unto you, that ye sin not.
And if any man sin, we have an
advocate with the Father, Jesus
Christ the righteous:
2 Tim 4:8
Henceforth there is laid up for
me a crown of righteousness,
which the Lord, the righteous
judge, shall give me at that day:
and not to me only, but unto all
them also that love his
appearing.
S - SUBSTANCE
SCRIPTURAL CLAIMS THAT HE IS THE SAME SUBSTANCE/ESSENCE AS THE
FATHER
Heb.1:3 Brightness of his glory and the express image of His person.
Col.1:15 Image of the invisible God.
2.Cor.4:4 Image of God.
Phil.2:6 Form of God
Col.2:9 In Him dwelleth the fullness of the Godhead bodily.
Jn.5:18 Said that God was His Father, making himslef equal with God. (Jesus
is the same substance as the Father)
 

Robert Gwin

Well-Known Member
Mar 19, 2021
6,888
1,591
113
70
Central Il
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
x SIMILAR TITLES
JEHOVAH JESUS
1. ALPHA AND OMEGA
Rev.21:6-7 I am Alpha and Omega. Rev.22:13,16 I am the Alpha and
Omega..
2. BEGINNING AND THE END
Rev.21:6,7 The beginning and the
end.
Rev.22:13,16 The beginning and the
end..
3. FIRST AND LAST
Is.44:6 I am the first, and I am the
last
And besides me there is God.
Rev.1:17 I am the first and the last.:
Rev 22:13
I am Alpha and Omega, the
beginning and the end, the first and
the last.
4. ALMIGHTY
Gen.17:1 I am the Almighty God.. Rev.1:8…………The Almighty
5. I AM
Ex.3:14 I am that I am. Jn.8:58 Before Abraham was, I am..
6. MIGHTY GOD
Is.10:21 The remnant shall return
even
The remnant of Jacob, unto the
Mighty God.
Is.9:6 The Mighty God
7. KING OF KINGS
1 Tim.6:15 The King of Kings; and
Lord of Lords.
Rev.19:13,16…..And hath on his
vesture
and on his thigh a name written
King of Kings and Lord of Lords
8. SHEPHERD
Ez.34:23 And I will set up one
shepherd over them, and he shall
feed them, even my servant David;
he shall feed them, and he shall be
their shepherd.
Ps.23:1 The Lord is my Shepherd, I
shall not want. .
Jn.10:11 I am the good Shepherd
S - STANDARDS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS

SIMILAR IN HOLINESS, FAITHFULNESS, WISDOM, TRUTH AND LOVE.
O - OBEISANCE AND WORSHIP
JEHOVAH JESUS
1. BENDING OF KNEES
Isa 45:22-23
22Look unto me, and be ye saved,
all the ends of the earth: for I am
God, and there is none else.
23 I have sworn by myself, the word
is gone out of my mouth in
righteousness, and shall not return,
That unto me every knee shall bow,
every tongue shall swear.
Phil 2:9-11
9Wherefore God also hath highly
exalted him, and given him a name
which is above every name:
10That at the name of Jesus every
knee should bow, of things in
heaven, and things in earth, and
things under the earth;
11And that every tongue should
confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.
2. ADORATION
Rev 4:1
11Thou art worthy, O Lord, to
receive glory and honour and
power: for thou hast created all
things, and for thy pleasure they
are and were created.
Rev 5:12-13
12Saying with a loud voice,
Worthy is the Lamb that was slain
to receive power, and riches, and
wisdom, and strength, and
honour, and glory, and blessing.
13And every creature which is in
heaven, and on the earth, and
under the earth, and such as are
in the sea, and all that are in them,
heard I saying, Blessing, and
honour, and glory, and power, be
unto him that sitteth upon the
throne, and unto the Lamb for
ever and ever.
3. SERVICE
Jos.24:24 The Lord our God will we
serve, and
Him will we obey.
Col.3:24 For ye serve the Lord
Christ.
4. PROSTRATION
Gen.17:3, Deut.9:18 Rev.1:17, Rev.5:8
5. PRAYER
Ps. 65:2 1 Cor.1:2, Jn.14:14
6. CONFESSION

I King 8:33
33When thy people Israel be
smitten down before the enemy,
because they have sinned against
thee, and shall turn again to thee,
and confess thy name, and pray,
and make supplication unto thee in
this house:
Rom 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy
mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt
believe in thine heart that God
hath raised him from the dead,
thou shalt be saved.
7. THANKSGIVING
Ne.12:46,
Ps.50:14
1 Tim. 1:12
8. ANGELIC WORSHIP
Neh. 9:6 Thou preservest them all;
and the
Host of heaven worshipped thee.
Heb.1:6 And let all the angels of
God worship Him.
T – TASKS (DEEDS)
SIMILAR UNIQUE DEEDS:
JEHOVAH JESUS
1. FORGIVENESS
Jer.31:34
For I will forgive their iniquity,
And I will remember their sin no
more.
Luke 5:20 Man thy sins are
forgiven thee.
2. CREATION
Gen.1:1
In the beginning God created the
Heaven and the earth
Heb.1:10 Thou Lord in the
beginning hast laid the
foundation of the earth; and the
Heavens are the works of thine
hands.
Col. 1:16 For by Him were all
things created that are in heaven,
and that are in Earth… all things
were created by Him, and for Him
3. JUDGEMENT
Ps 96:13
Before the LORD: for he cometh, for
he cometh to judge the earth: he
shall judge the world with
righteousness, and the people with
his truth.
Jn.5:22 For the Father judgeth no
man,buthath committed all
judgement unto the Son.
4. INDWELLS BELIEVERS
2 Cor 6:16
And what agreement hath the
temple of God with idols? for ye are
Col.1:27 To whom God will make
known
what is riches of the glory of this

the temple of the living God; as
God hath said, I will dwell in them,
and walk in them; and I will be their
God, and they shall be my people.
mystery
among them Gentiles; which is
Christ
in you, the hope of glory.
Gal 2:20
I am crucified with Christ:
nevertheless I live; yet not I, but
Christ liveth in me: and the life
which I now live in the flesh I live
by the faith of the Son of God,
who loved me, and gave himself
for me.
E - ESSENTIAL ATTRIBUTES
JEHOVAH JESUS
1. OMNIPRESENT
Jer 23:24
Can any hide himself in secret places
that I shall not see him? saith the
LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth?
saith the LORD.
Matt 18:20
For where two or three are
gathered together in my name,
there am I in the midst of them.
2. OMNIPOTENT
Rev.19:6
Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent
reigneth.
Mt.28:18 All power is given unto
me in heaven and on earth.
3. OMNISCIENT
Heb 4:13
Neither is there any creature that is
not manifest in his sight: but all
things are naked and opened unto
the eyes of him with whom we have
to do.
Col 2:3
In whom are hid all the treasures
of wisdom and knowledge.
4. UNCHANGING
Mal 3:6
For I am the LORD, I change not;
therefore ye sons of Jacob are not
consumed.
Heb 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday,
and to day, and for ever.
5. ETERNAL/EVERLASTING
Jer.10:10
But the Lord is the true God, he is
the
Living God, and an Everlasting King
Rom.16:26 The Everlasting God.
Isa 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto
us a son is given: and the
government shall be upon his
shoulder: and his name shall be
called Wonderful, Counsellor,

The mighty God, The everlasting
Father, The Prince of Peace.
Mark 5:2 Jn.1:1,2
6. RIGHTEOUS
Ps 7:9
Oh let the wickedness of the wicked
come to an end; but establish the
just: for the righteous God trieth the
hearts and reins.
Ps 116:5
Gracious is the LORD, and righteous;
yea, our God is merciful.
I Jn 2:1
My little children, these things
write I unto you, that ye sin not.
And if any man sin, we have an
advocate with the Father, Jesus
Christ the righteous:
2 Tim 4:8
Henceforth there is laid up for
me a crown of righteousness,
which the Lord, the righteous
judge, shall give me at that day:
and not to me only, but unto all
them also that love his
appearing.
S - SUBSTANCE
SCRIPTURAL CLAIMS THAT HE IS THE SAME SUBSTANCE/ESSENCE AS THE
FATHER
Heb.1:3 Brightness of his glory and the express image of His person.
Col.1:15 Image of the invisible God.
2.Cor.4:4 Image of God.
Phil.2:6 Form of God
Col.2:9 In Him dwelleth the fullness of the Godhead bodily.
Jn.5:18 Said that God was His Father, making himslef equal with God. (Jesus
is the same substance as the Father)


Simply put Joe, Jehovah is God, Jesus is God's son. Jesus is not equal to Jehovah, either on earth Jn 14:28, nor in heaven 1 Cor 11:3. After Jesus' successful mission on earth, he was granted the number 2 position however, sitting at Jehovah's right side. Remember why Jesus has been promoted by individuals to be God, satan does not care who you worship and follow as long as it is not God Himself. If he can turn all away from serving Jehovah, he wins sir.
 

RLT63

Well-Known Member
Apr 24, 2022
4,056
2,626
113
Montgomery
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Simply put Joe, Jehovah is God, Jesus is God's son. Jesus is not equal to Jehovah, either on earth Jn 14:28, nor in heaven 1 Cor 11:3. After Jesus' successful mission on earth, he was granted the number 2 position however, sitting at Jehovah's right side. Remember why Jesus has been promoted by individuals to be God, satan does not care who you worship and follow as long as it is not God Himself. If he can turn all away from serving Jehovah, he wins sir.
You just ignored everything he posted and didn't respond to it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy

Robert Gwin

Well-Known Member
Mar 19, 2021
6,888
1,591
113
70
Central Il
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You just ignored everything he posted and didn't respond to it.

Hi Rl, I simply stated Biblical truth sir. Why write an entire document to say what can be said in a few words. Did he post truth, or did what I post refute what he said, that was the point.
 

RLT63

Well-Known Member
Apr 24, 2022
4,056
2,626
113
Montgomery
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Hi Rl, I simply stated Biblical truth sir. Why write an entire document to say what can be said in a few words. Did he post truth, or did what I post refute what he said, that was the point.
Okay Jesus is God The Son, he is the second person in the Trinity and is eternal and divine.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy

Robert Gwin

Well-Known Member
Mar 19, 2021
6,888
1,591
113
70
Central Il
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Okay Jesus is God The Son, he is the second person in the Trinity and is eternal and divine.
Not a Bible teaching sir. Who did he say his God is? If you figure that out, then you will know who God is.

It might be helpful to read Mat 3:17, God Himself bears testimony about who Jesus is.
 

RLT63

Well-Known Member
Apr 24, 2022
4,056
2,626
113
Montgomery
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Not a Bible teaching sir. Who did he say his God is? If you figure that out, then you will know who God is.

It might be helpful to read Mat 3:17, God Himself bears testimony about who Jesus is.
It is more helpful to read John 1. It explains who Jesus is.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy

Matthias

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
20,840
15,001
113
Kentucky
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
Similar (or even same) titles doesn’t make a deity. God and the Messiah share titles, with themselves* and with others - angels and humans.

*There’s potentially that “How many selfs is God?” issue for trinitarians and binitarians.
 

Michiah-Imla

Well-Known Member
Oct 24, 2020
6,517
3,666
113
Northeast USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
@Johann @RLT63

Why didn’t any of the inspired writers of the New Testament elucidate on this trinity stuff and stress it’s importance on our salvation like you guys do?

:contemplate:
 

Matthias

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
20,840
15,001
113
Kentucky
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
It is more helpful to read John 1. It explains who Jesus is.

Starting in the beginning.

“In the beginning was that Word, and that Word was with God, and that Word was God. This same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by it, and without it was made nothing that was made. In it was life, and the life was that life was the light of men. And that light shineth in the the wilderness, and darkness comprehendth it not.”

(John 1:1-5, 1599 Geneva Bible)

What does this tell us about Jesus?
 

RLT63

Well-Known Member
Apr 24, 2022
4,056
2,626
113
Montgomery
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Starting in the beginning.

“In the beginning was that Word, and that Word was with God, and that Word was God. This same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by it, and without it was made nothing that was made. In it was life, and the life was that life was the light of men. And that light shineth in the the wilderness, and darkness comprehendth it not.”

(John 1:1-5, 1599 Geneva Bible)

What does this tell us about Jesus?
That he was with God and he was God and all things were created through him and in verse 14 he was manifest in the flesh and dwelt among us
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nancy

Matthias

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
20,840
15,001
113
Kentucky
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
That he was with God and he was God and all things were created through him

Is that what you see written in the Geneva Bible rendering of the prologue?

You saw “he”? I saw “it”.
 

RLT63

Well-Known Member
Apr 24, 2022
4,056
2,626
113
Montgomery
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
No mention of Jesus.

No mention of “god-man”.

No mention of “trinity”.

No mention of the Holy Spirit in the trinity.

You need much more than that son.
The word in the first few verses is the same word that in verse 14 became flesh and dwelt among us. Even Stevie Wonder could see it
 
  • Like
Reactions: Matthias

Matthias

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
20,840
15,001
113
Kentucky
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
The word in the first few verses is the same word that in verse 14 became flesh and dwelt among us. Even Stevie Wonder could see it

The same word which the Geneva Bible calls “it,” not “he”.

John is speaking about the incarnation of the Father’s logos.
 

Michiah-Imla

Well-Known Member
Oct 24, 2020
6,517
3,666
113
Northeast USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The word in the first few verses is the same word that in verse 14 became flesh and dwelt among us

The manifestation of the word in Christ, not that Christ was God.

Because Christ said that:

“Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.” (Matthew 5:8)

If Christ were God then he lied in this verse because the people he was speaking to were looking at him.

And of course we know that Christ is not a liar.
 

Matthias

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
20,840
15,001
113
Kentucky
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
Jesus is the Father’s logos (“word”) made flesh.

When did that happen? Where did that happen? How did that happen? Why did that happen? Is this John’s way of saying what Matthew and Luke said in the birth narratives in their respective Gospels?
 
Last edited:

RLT63

Well-Known Member
Apr 24, 2022
4,056
2,626
113
Montgomery
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The manifestation of the word in Christ, not that Christ was God.

Because Christ said that:

“Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.” (Matthew 5:8)

If Christ were God then he lied in this verse because the people he was speaking to were looking at him.

And of course we know that Christ is not a liar.
We also know that God is the Father so Jesus didn't lie. John said no one has seen God so who did Abraham and Moses see?
 

Matthias

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2022
20,840
15,001
113
Kentucky
Faith
Other Faith
Country
United States
We also know that God is the Father so Jesus didn't lie

We also know, or should, that the Father is his Father and our Father, his God and our God.

No one besides the Father is “his God and our God”. [“my God and your God,” if Jesus is the speaker.]

In order have someone else we must remove Jesus from the equation.