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Reincarnation of Elijah

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by friend of, Apr 21, 2020.

  1. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member

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    Was John the Baptist really Elijah? If so, does that mean reincarnation is a biblically backed position? What do you make of these passages—

    Matthew 17:11-13
    11 Jesus replied, “To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things. 12 But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.” 13 Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist.
     
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  2. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member

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    No, John the Baptist was the fulfilling of Malachi 4:

    5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet
    Before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord.
    6 And he will turn
    The hearts of the fathers to the children,
    And the hearts of the children to their fathers,
    Lest I come and strike the earth with a curse.”

    And as Jesus said, there will be another in the future before the second coming - I believe one of the two witnesses.
     
  3. Base12

    Base12 Well-Known Member

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    Hi Friend of.

    You may have seen my posts on this. I believe Reincarnation is not only Biblical, but as you noted with that verse, was taught by Jesus Himself.

    Some believe that Elijah will show up again as one of the Two Witnesses.

    This, in my opinion, can happen only by Reincarnation since they are later killed, which means they are Humans like us.
     
  4. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member

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    Yet, neither Enoch nor Elijah saw death. So there's that. They simply return at the Lord's timing.

    Do you have other scripture to support Reincarnation handy?
     
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  5. Joseph77

    Joseph77 Well-Known Member

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    Not at all - it is totally opposed to Scripture..... who got you to ask this question, this thread, or why did you ?
     
  6. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member

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    I did. Why?
     
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  7. Joseph77

    Joseph77 Well-Known Member

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    The origin of a thing shows the purpose and direction it is going to grow - like a seed of a tree grows into the tree it came from.
    When the origin is bad, or rather (or both) when the tree is bad, it cannot bear good fruit (teachings).
     
  8. Base12

    Base12 Well-Known Member

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    I suppose anything is possible with God, however in order to be 're-born' into this world, the method of leaving the last time shouldn't matter.

    One problem I see is that Enoch was 'Translated', which I interpret to mean he received his Glorified Body and is not able to be killed if he came back in that form again...

    Hebrews 11:5
    "By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God"


    If Enoch simply 'materialized' one day, then that would mean he is still immortal.

    There are countless verses. The Key is realizing that words like 'Hell', 'Gehenna' the 'Pit', etc. are actually parables for the Womb and the process of Reincarnation.

    For example...

    Isaiah 51:1
    "Hearken to me, ye that follow after righteousness, ye that seek the LORD: look unto the rock whence ye are hewn, and to the hole of the pit whence ye are digged"


    God is teaching that the 'Pit' is actually the Womb...

    Isaiah 51:2
    "Look unto Abraham your father, and unto Sarah that bare you: for I called him alone, and blessed him, and increased him"


    Thus, those that go down to the 'pit' are in fact going to be Reincarnated.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2020
  9. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the vote of confindence.
     
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  10. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member

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    I disagree with that. I don't think Sheol is the Womb. Gehenna is certainly not a womb.
     
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  11. Base12

    Base12 Well-Known Member

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    It really depends on how literal One takes the Bible.

    For example:

    Matthew 23:15
    "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves"


    The word Hell in the above verse is Gehenna...

    Strong's Greek: 1067. γέεννα (geenna) -- Gehenna, a valley W. and South of Jer., also a symbolic name for the final place of punishment of the ungodly

    Remember, this is Jesus talking. Was the phrase 'Child of Hell' just a rude insult or was it literal?

    This is the Door that One must walk through in order to see how this all fits together. It took me years of meditating to come to the conclusion that Reincarnation was Biblical.

    I don't expect you or anyone here to change their minds overnight.

    If One decides that Jesus "didn't really mean what He said", then the Blue Pill is swallowed, and life goes back to the way it was.

    If One decides that Jesus may have been telling the Truth, then One can move on to other verses such as this one...

    Psalms 139:15
    "My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth"


    It's very obvious what 'Lowest parts of the Earth' is. Everyone knows it's a reference to Hell, yet the verse is stating that Babies come from there.

    • Literal?
    • Poetry?

    These are the tough decisions that have to be made in order to proceed with further study.
     
  12. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    No and no.

    LUKE 1
    13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.
    14 And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.

    15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.
    16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.
    17 And he shall go before Him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.


    John came in the spirit and power of Elijah, but was definitely not a reincarnation. If you recall, John was beheaded soon after he began his ministry, but Elijah appeared to Jesus towards the close of His ministry. And Elijah must come to earth in the future, when the Antichrist is in control (Revelation 11).
     
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  13. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    Addressing the OP, no John the Baptist is not the Man Elijah, scripture Luke 1:11 "And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense.
    Luke 1:12 "And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him.
    Luke 1:13 "But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.
    Luke 1:14 "And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.
    Luke 1:15 "For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.
    Luke 1:16 "And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.
    Luke 1:17 "And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord". (see Malachi 4:5 & 6). and Isaiah 40:3,

    so no, John was the forerunner of the Lord in the spirit and power of Elijah. and he was one of the two witness, and the Lord Jesus being the other witness. so if one is still looking for the two witness, you'll be looking in vain, for they have come and gone but their witness is still in the earth today. Baptism, and the Gospel.

    PICJAG.
     
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  14. Base12

    Base12 Well-Known Member

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    The above is another example of "You can't take that literal".

    What that ends up doing is 'dumbing down' the words Spirit and Power to mean something a lot more watered down and meaningless.
     
  15. Joseph77

    Joseph77 Well-Known Member

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    Good catch! (discernment) of false teaching from that poster's post.
     
  16. Base12

    Base12 Well-Known Member

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    Speaking of John, let's apply Critical Thinking to this verse...

    Luke 1:41
    "And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost"


    and...

    Luke 1:44
    "For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy"


    Could it be that John knew something ahead of time? How? A previous life? Where did the knowledge or memory come from?
     
  17. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member

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    Memory of when Christ came before? Err... How did Elijah recognize Jesus in his life, exactly?

    Also, think the story of Lazarus and the rich man. The rich man was in torments (hell) according to you, the womb. That tale says nothing of reincarnation, for instance.
     
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  18. Base12

    Base12 Well-Known Member

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    Let's hear from Jesus again...

    Matthew 16:13-16
    "When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?"


    Now hold on a second! Why would Jesus ask His Disciples who He is the Reincarnation of?!?!? Is Jesus trolling them?

    "And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets"

    Oops! The Disciples fell for the trap! Or did they?

    They say that you are the Reincarnation of...
    • John the Baptist
    • Elias
    • Jeremias
    • One of the Prophets
    Now why would the Disciples go and say a thing like that? Didn't they get the memo? Did Jesus fail in His teachings?

    "He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?"

    Did you catch that? Now Jesus is asking His Disciples who THEY think He is the Reincarnation of.

    "And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God"

    Good answer Peter!

    Now we know that Jesus is NOT the Reincarnation of some previous Character.
     
  19. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    if one calls themselves a christian, "a follower of Jesus Christ", why not take his word of TRUTH, scripture, Matthew 17:1 "And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
    Matthew 17:2 "And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
    Matthew 17:3 "And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him".

    now when they came down off the mountian, listen, Matthew 17:9 "And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.
    Matthew 17:10 "And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
    Matthew 17:11 "And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
    Matthew 17:12 "But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
    Matthew 17:13 "Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist".

    Now put your thinking caps on for a second, if the Lord Jesus said that Elijah has already come, why still look for him to come? .. thuh....
    if the Lord Jesus "WHO CANNOT LIE" said that Elijsh has already come, what's the problem? READ Matthew 17:12 & 13 again.

    PICJAG.
     
  20. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    You could have checked out any Hindu website and gotten your false idea instantly. Hinduism (and all Eastern religions derived from it) have held to this view for thousands of years.

    BUT IT IS ABSOLUTELY FALSE ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE.
    And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: (Heb 9:28)

    Paul was writing by divine inspiration, therefore that is a revelation from God. "Once to die" means "once to die" but reincarnation speaks of countless lives and deaths until someone attains Moksh (Moksha or Nirvana).
     
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