Reincarnation of Elijah

[Base12]

...Base12 absolutely scares me at times with the insane notions that he comes up with, as are readily seen within this thread.

Lol. OK, I'll go ahead and take a break from the thread.

There is a lot to ponder. Thank you so much Friend of for allowing me to share some theories with you! You are a great person.

And thanks to everyone else for a great debate.

I'll see you guys soon!

 

[friend of]

I really have no idea where you're getting this all from Base

 

[DNB]

Just off the top of my head...

• Hades
• Sheol
• Tartarus
• Gehenna

Did I get them all?

My understanding is that Hades & Sheol are where the physically dead remain, until the coming of Christ. And that Tartarus & Gehenna, are always in reference to the place of eternal punishment, after one's time in Hades. Meaning, unless Hell is interchangeable for for both places, which I don't believe that it is (outside of KJV), I personally would restrict Hell to refer to the abode of the damned.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Just off the top of my head...

• Hades
• Sheol
• Tartarus
• Gehenna

Did I get them all?

Well that isn't the question....is the word hell itself have different meanings

 

[Grailhunter]

You guys are bacon me crazy! lol
Us Christians can make of the Old Testament whatever we want....and we have.
Just for the entertainment value, you might want to check with the Hebrew Bible and or a Jewish website and see if they believe in hell? the devil? heaven as a reward?
Who went to shoal?
And how the Jews believed Elijah was suppose to return and announce the messiah.
Just for the fun of it. Whatever you want to do.
"Officially" Christianity does not believe in reincarnation in its varies forms. But that is a developed belief against it.
In the biblical era, they definitely believed in it, as per their answers, and the fact that Christ did not disagree with the possibility of their answers.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Hi Friend of.

You may have seen my posts on this. I believe Reincarnation is not only Biblical, but as you noted with that verse, was taught by Jesus Himself.

Some believe that Elijah will show up again as one of the Two Witnesses.

This, in my opinion, can happen only by Reincarnation since they are later killed, which means they are Humans like us.

Elijah never died in the first place.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Yet, neither Enoch nor Elijah saw death. So there's that. They simply return at the Lord's timing.

Didn't Jesus say when he was on earth as a human that no one had gone into heaven before him. Doesn't the scriptures say sin brings forth death, so are Enoch and Elijah sinless unlike the rest of us?
I think you're looking at these two people and the scriptures regarding them incorrectly.

 

[DNB]

Didn't Jesus say when he was on earth as a human that no one had gone into heaven before him. Doesn't the scriptures say sin brings forth death, so are Enoch and Elijah sinless unlike the rest of us?
I think you're looking at these two people and the scriptures regarding them incorrectly.

Well said!

 

[APAK]

Was John the Baptist really Elijah? If so, does that mean reincarnation is a biblically backed position? What do you make of these passages—

Matthew 17:11-13
11 Jesus replied, “To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things. 12 But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.” 13 Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist.

Yes, to the first part of the question and no to the reincarnation thing...
I read Matt 17:11-13 literally with some underlining understanding - the concept of a spirit within a human being.

John the Baptist was born WITH the actual spirit (type) of Elijah. As we have or are becoming into the image or the spirit of Christ through the Spirit in or WITHin our own natural spirit, so John was BORN with the exact spirit of Elijah, the SAME spirit, beside and WITHin his own natural spirit, of the Father from his conception...he had come indeed as Christ said. No pagan reincarnation process at all...

The Holy Spirit can create a new or existing spirit (of a person who 'lived' or still 'lives' today as Elijah) within any person's spirit from conception or over time within that person - as we are maturing in Yahshua's spirit today. YHWH is the Father of all spirits. He can create any type of spirit at will.

So within John's spirit at birth was the actual spirit of Elijah created by the Father of spirits. Yahshua sensed and recognized this spirit within John instantly, as his Father caused this understanding within him.

YHWH has a purpose before time and creation, and that purpose for John is obvious according to scripture.

APAK

 

[Timtofly]

Enoch and Elisha is the same person with different names, and he is still alive. There is no re-incarnation involved. Enoch was the 6th removed from Adam, a fallen human.

He was so righteous as a fallen human, he did not die. He then appeared as Elijah, who had no parents, and did not die. He then appeared on the mount of transfiguration with Jesus and the disciples. He is still alive today. One of a few humans who will never die. Since the body has never died, it could never be reincarnated.

As argued, reincarnation is a false doctrine of a false religion (hinduism). It is not in the Bible and claiming that God works with Satan's doctrines is blasphemy against God.

Base 12 , not the poster, is the Babylonian system of doing things, out of which, all religions and political governments have come out of. It is interesting that a poster, with that name, inserted reincarnation and Babylonian theology into this thread.....

 

[Grailhunter]

Yes, to the first part of the question and no to the reincarnation thing...
I read Matt 17:11-13 literally with some underlining understanding - the concept of a spirit within a human being.

John the Baptist was born WITH the actual spirit (type) of Elijah. As we have or are becoming into the image or the spirit of Christ through the Spirit in or WITHin our own natural spirit, so John was BORN with the exact spirit of Elijah, the SAME spirit, beside and WITHin his own natural spirit, of the Father from his conception...he had come indeed as Christ said. No pagan reincarnation process at all...

The Holy Spirit can create a new or existing spirit (of a person who 'lived' or still 'lives' today as Elijah) within any person's spirit from conception or over time within that person - as we are maturing in Yahshua's spirit today. YHWH is the Father of all spirits. He can create any type of spirit at will.

So within John's spirit at birth was the actual spirit of Elijah created by the Father of spirits. Yahshua sensed and recognized this spirit within John instantly, as his Father caused this understanding within him.

YHWH has a purpose before time and creation, and that purpose for John is obvious according to scripture.

APAK

You have a lot of beliefs there that are not scriptural.
On the other hand, I am not going say they are not true.
Reading the scriptures, it is the obvious that the connection between Yeshua and John is very significant, but yet not completely defined.
The storyline of who John was or personified leaves some questions.
There is also the question as to what authority, he had to forgive sins.
If you look into the Jewish religion, you will find that they considered Elijah senior to the Messiah.
As in more connected to the Divine....more significant....that is why Elijah was to announce and introduce the messiah.
One of the reasons for that, is because they believed that the messiah would be a human warlord king.
Between the testaments the Jews conducted many uprisings against the Romans, during which some of their military leaders were looked at very closely as possible messiahs.
Because Elijah was so close to the Divine, the suggestion is......that is why he had the authority to forgive sins. But that is a question that Yeshua refused to address.
Then again it is obvious that it was intended that John would play a part in Christ's ministry.

 

[Grailhunter]

Enoch and Elisha is the same person with different names, and he is still alive. There is no re-incarnation involved. Enoch was the 6th removed from Adam, a fallen human.

He was so righteous as a fallen human, he did not die. He then appeared as Elijah, who had no parents, and did not die. He then appeared on the mount of transfiguration with Jesus and the disciples. He is still alive today. One of a few humans who will never die. Since the body has never died, it could never be reincarnated.

As argued, reincarnation is a false doctrine of a false religion (hinduism). It is not in the Bible and claiming that God works with Satan's doctrines is blasphemy against God.

Base 12 , not the poster, is the Babylonian system of doing things, out of which, all religions and political governments have come out of. It is interesting that a poster, with that name, inserted reincarnation and Babylonian theology into this thread.....

What you are suggesting is that the Apostles were Pagans, or the people that suggested that he could be----John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” Christ could have objected to these suggestions. He did not....are you saying Christ was Pagan?

The specifics of what all souls can do are not addressed in the scriptures. The rejection of reincarnation was done by men. Not that I am saying it is fact or not. Beliefs versus facts....beliefs can make up any thing, for or against. As far as I am concerned the jury is out.

 

[Timtofly]

Where does it say John forgave sins? Baptism is not regeneration, and the action on the cross had not happened. The heed to repent in the law is just that, repentance, not salvation. John's baptism did not provide salvation either.

Upon entering the temple all were supposed to go through the process of water cleansing. It was symbolic and was sprinkling of water. One did not have to be baptized or dunked in water. Nor did the process take one's sin away. It was an act of preparation, but the sacrifice itself, brought, when received, was the actual point of forgiveness.

John's baptism was unheard of in the temple, because in the Jordan is was more immersive, than just sprinkling. It was also repentance without sacrifice. Some people could have requested the process over and over. Probably a lot cheaper than bringing a sacrifice to the temple. It probably made a lot of merchants mad as well, who lost out on making some money.

 

[Timtofly]

What you are suggesting is that the Apostles were Pagans, or the people that suggested that he could be----John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” Christ could have objected to these suggestions. He did not....are you saying Christ was Pagan?

The specifics of what all souls can do are not addressed in the scriptures. The rejection of reincarnation was done by men. Not that I am saying it is fact or not. Beliefs versus facts....beliefs can make up any thing, for or against. As far as I am concerned the jury is out.

John the Baptist had the spirit of Elijah on him, not in him. It just means there was more authority, even than the priest in the temple. What does paganism have to do with the Bible?

It was the authority of Elijah, Jesus was addressing, not John the Baptist as a man.

Elijah could not save people from their sins. There was only a continuous repentance and confession, and done in a manner that was not in private, but in the sight of many people.

 

[101G]

Elijah never died in the first place.

Elijah died

PICJAG.

 

[Timtofly]

Elijah died

PICJAG.

What? When?

 

[101G]

Hebrews 9:27 "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment".

PICJAG.

 

[APAK]

GH: I do try to use scripture whenever I make statements as I did. Let me know if you want me to add scripture. I could add more scripture to connect them or tie it all together ..maybe that might not satisfy though...

Anyway thanks for your reply, although the word of God says implicitly and very strongly by explicit statements of what John actually did do...and that John never had authority to forgive sin. He did however show the people to repentance with a water baptism that does not actually save....John could not bring the baptism of the Spirit into someone, that was reserved for the Father as always, then Christ and then his followers per scripture.... By the time distress hit Jerusalem and the departure of all followers ensued, unbelievers became baptized in the Spirit into the Body directly by ANY spirited believer or group of believers as the instrument(s) of the Father, or by direct intervention of the Father in his miraculous ways.

Blessings,

APAK

 

[101G]

It was the authority of Elijah, Jesus was addressing, not John the Baptist as a man.

John had the authority from God.

PICJAG.

 

[Timtofly]

Hebrews 9:27 "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment".

PICJAG.

And if God does not appoint some to die, you are going to hold God at His Word?

Enoch was so righteous God did not judge him. Hebrews 11:5
"By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God."

God can make exceptions to God’s rules.

 

[Timtofly]

John had the authority from God.

PICJAG.

Because God gave him the spirit of Elijah.