Reincarnation

[theophilus]

It seems incredible to me that anyone could profess to be a Christian and yet believe in reincarnation. But there are a lot of people who think this belief is compatible with the Bible, so we need to look at what the Bible says.

Reincarnation is based on the belief that we are spiritual beings; the bodies we inhabit are not an essential part of us but are like clothes that we put on. When one body wears out it is replaced by another. We need to see what the Bible says about this.

The LORD God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature.
Genesis 2:7 ESV

God created the body first and then made it alive. The bodies that die will be resurrected.

Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voiceand come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.
John 5:28,29 ESV

Salvation through faith in Jesus Christ includes the salvation of the body as well as the soul.

Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Thessalonians 5:23 ESV

Each of us lives only once and will die only once.

It is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment.
Hebrews 9:27 ESV

There are some exceptions to this last statement. The Bible tells of people who have been raised from the dead and so have to die a second time. When Christ returns to take the church out of the world believers who are alive then will never die. But the vast majority of those who have ever lived will live once and die once.

The Bible does say that those who are lost will die a second time but not because they lived more than once.

And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:12-14 ESV

If reincarnation is true than each of us must have lived in many bodies. The Bible plainly teaches that our bodies will be resurrected. It is impossible for anyone to inhabit more than one body. Resurrection and reincarnation are mutually exclusive beliefs so only one of them can be true.

 

[101G]

GINOLJC, to all.
First thanks for the topic, second, reincarnation is really nothing but mythology, re-creation over and over of different bodies, trying to achieve immortality, ..... their way, instead of God way. God has only one body, and he's supreme. the angles have celestial bodies, but man will have only one in a natural lifetime, (earthly), and the eternal body, (spiritual), for all times. .... that's it nothing else.

for the "body" without the spirit is dead. plain and simple. and at death the spirit returns to God who gave it. if God sends the same spirit into another body, anyone who find that scripture please post it.

as for all types of bodies, the bible is clear.
1 Corinthians 15:35 "But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
1 Corinthians 15:36 "Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
1 Corinthians 15:37 "And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
1 Corinthians 15:38 "But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
1 Corinthians 15:39 "All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
1 Corinthians 15:40 "There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
1 Corinthians 15:41 "There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
1 Corinthians 15:42 "So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1 Corinthians 15:43 "It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1 Corinthians 15:44 "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. (this is man's only two bodies).
1 Corinthians 15:45 "And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1 Corinthians 15:46 "Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1 Corinthians 15:47 "The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
1 Corinthians 15:48 "As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.1 Corinthians 15:49 "And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
1 Corinthians 15:50 "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

PICJAG.

 

[jaybird]

It seems incredible to me that anyone could profess to be a Christian and yet believe in reincarnation. But there are a lot of people who think this belief is compatible with the Bible, so we need to look at what the Bible says.

Reincarnation is based on the belief that we are spiritual beings; the bodies we inhabit are not an essential part of us but are like clothes that we put on. When one body wears out it is replaced by another. We need to see what the Bible says about this.

The LORD God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature.
Genesis 2:7 ESV

God created the body first and then made it alive. The bodies that die will be resurrected.

Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voiceand come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.
John 5:28,29 ESV

Salvation through faith in Jesus Christ includes the salvation of the body as well as the soul.

Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Thessalonians 5:23 ESV

Each of us lives only once and will die only once.

It is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment.
Hebrews 9:27 ESV

There are some exceptions to this last statement. The Bible tells of people who have been raised from the dead and so have to die a second time. When Christ returns to take the church out of the world believers who are alive then will never die. But the vast majority of those who have ever lived will live once and die once.

The Bible does say that those who are lost will die a second time but not because they lived more than once.

And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Revelation 20:12-14 ESV

If reincarnation is true than each of us must have lived in many bodies. The Bible plainly teaches that our bodies will be resurrected. It is impossible for anyone to inhabit more than one body. Resurrection and reincarnation are mutually exclusive beliefs so only one of them can be true.

i dont agree, reincarnation was a part of Christianity up until the 500s i think.

im not going to go over all these points but i will discuss the first one.

Reincarnation is based on the belief that we are spiritual beings; the bodies we inhabit are not an essential part of us but are like clothes that we put on. When one body wears out it is replaced by another. We need to see what the Bible says about this.

sounds like your saying our physical body is our true self, when we die we get another physical body. so when we die we must go to another physical world. where is this world?

 

[Dcopymope]

i dont agree, reincarnation was a part of Christianity up until the 500s i think.

im not going to go over all these points but i will discuss the first one.


sounds like your saying our physical body is our true self, when we die we get another physical body. so when we die we must go to another physical world. where is this world?

Well its not a different body, its the same body made new, just like the body of Jesus. Reincarnation is about you getting a second chance at life. The Bible says you have only have one. It shouldn't be about what some little chump believed ages ago. Just because a belief is old doesn't make it true. Its either in the Bible you claim to believe in or its not.

 

[jaybird]

Well its not a different body, its the same body made new, just like the body of Jesus. Reincarnation is about you getting a second chance at life. The Bible says you have only have one. It shouldn't be about what some little chump believed ages ago. Just because a belief is old doesn't make it true. Its either in the Bible you claim to believe in or its not.

so we get another mortal body, and after that one dies, what happens then?
people that believe in reincarnation do not look at it as a second chance.
bible says we have only one life Heb 9 27, so all those men in the bible that were brought back to life, they are still here today and will never die again?
i didnt say old made it true, i said it was an accepted belief at the time of Jesus and 500 years after Jesus. but lucky for us rome came along and set us straight, after rome kills Jesus and most of the apostles, burns people alive, go on crusades, and gives us inquisitions where they torture people, etc etc, they give us the correct doctrines to believe.

 

[theophilus]

i dont agree, reincarnation was a part of Christianity up until the 500s i think.

im not going to go over all these points but i will discuss the first one.

sounds like your saying our physical body is our true self, when we die we get another physical body. so when we die we must go to another physical world. where is this world?

When we die our soul goes either to Hades or to Paradise to wait for the resurrection of our body. We will exist for a time in a nonphysical state. After the resurrection we will spend eternity either in the lake of fire or on the new earth.

What is your evidence for believing that reincarnation was once a part of Christianity?

 

[bbyrd009]

When we die our soul goes either to Hades or to Paradise to wait for the resurrection of our body. We will exist for a time in a nonphysical state. After the resurrection we will spend eternity either in the lake of fire or on the new earth.

man, you sure seem confident there?

 

[jaybird]

When we die our soul goes either to Hades or to Paradise to wait for the resurrection of our body. We will exist for a time in a nonphysical state. After the resurrection we will spend eternity either in the lake of fire or on the new earth.

What is your evidence for believing that reincarnation was once a part of Christianity?

if it wasnt part of Christianity then there would be no reason to call a council and condemn it.

"If anyone asserts the fabulous pre-existence of souls, and shall assert the monstrous restoration which follows from it, let him be anathema [excommunicated]." - Decree of the Fifth Catholic Council, of the Second Council of Constantinople (553 AD)

 

[theophilus]

if it wasnt part of Christianity then there would be no reason to call a council and condemn it.

"If anyone asserts the fabulous pre-existence of souls, and shall assert the monstrous restoration which follows from it, let him be anathema [excommunicated]." - Decree of the Fifth Catholic Council, of the Second Council of Constantinople (553 AD)

The goal of councils was to preserve Christianity by condemning the false teachings that had infiltrated it. When this council was held there might have been false teachers teaching reincarnation just as there are many false teachers in the church today, but the councils decision showed that reincarnation was a heresy and not part of Christian teaching.

 

[Enoch111]

if it wasnt part of Christianity then there would be no reason to call a council and condemn it.

The reason for condemning reincarnation was not because it was a part of Christianity but a teaching of heretics within the churches. Big difference. Reincarnation is foreign to the Bible and to Christianity.

 

[Grailhunter]

Reincarnation was never an official teaching of "mainstream Christianity." That is a fact and that is also historical.
In Christ's time and the biblical era the possibility of resurrection was the belief of many, Jews, Pagans, and as time would be Christians. Christ's own Apostles gave examples of people that could have been reincarnated when He asked them who people thought He was. He did not tell them that it was an absurd idea. And in deed if you watch people try to explain exactly what John the Baptist was? That in itself can be entertaining.

And the statement, "It seems incredible to me that anyone could profess to be a Christian and yet believe in reincarnation." You put yourself in the position of God, judge, and jury. Shame on you.

In regard to activities of souls....
Matthew 27:52-53 The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many.

Neat verse...wonder what they did after they appeared to people? Movement of souls. It has a few names....A person that is reborn as the same person...a person that is born with a different body but the soul of a past person ~ Then you have ghosts....I have seen a few....people on this forum may have seen a few. What are they? Personally, I have not seen an example of reincarnation.

Some would say that using a medium to talk to the dead is....witchcraft....Pagan.....sinful.
But they are not going to consider the transfiguration as any of those things

 

[jaybird]

The goal of councils was to preserve Christianity by condemning the false teachings that had infiltrated it. When this council was held there might have been false teachers teaching reincarnation just as there are many false teachers in the church today, but the councils decision showed that reincarnation was a heresy and not part of Christian teaching.

i dont think these councils were trying to preserve anything, more like destroy. thats why communities like Qumran and Naghammidi were burying their scriptures in caves.
all the sects in the days of Jesus believed in either pre existence or transmigration (reincarnation). Josephus teaches the pharisees, majority of Judaism, believed in pre existence, and Essenes in transmigration. Nazerenes, sect of Jesus, would have had the same doctrines as Essenes, and Zealots same as Pharisee. the only exception would be sadducees who didnt seem believe in any afterlife, which in itself is strange for any religious group but thats what we are told about them. the DSS teaching on Melchizedek refer to Him as "Melchizedek redivivus" redivivus is revived, reincarnate. the Jews believed their prophets came back, many thought Jesus was a prophet of the old days, and Elijah was John.

 

[jaybird]

The reason for condemning reincarnation was not because it was a part of Christianity but a teaching of heretics within the churches. Big difference. Reincarnation is foreign to the Bible and to Christianity.

they also said the Nazarenes, sect of Jesus, were heretics. when you have to have the assistance of roman legions to spread your teachings, your gonna get lots of heretics.

 

[theophilus]

And the statement, "It seems incredible to me that anyone could profess to be a Christian and yet believe in reincarnation." You put yourself in the position of God, judge, and jury. Shame on you.

All I am saying is that I believe what the Bible teaches.

In regard to activities of souls....
Matthew 27:52-53 The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many.

These people had been resurrected and had bodies. They were not disembodied souls.

Some would say that using a medium to talk to the dead is....witchcraft....Pagan.....sinful.
But they are not going to consider the transfiguration as any of those things

Jesus is lord both of the living and the dead. He has a right to speak to any of his subjects at any time. The transfiguration did not involve the use of mediums.

 

[Grailhunter]

All I am saying is that I believe what the Bible teaches.


These people had been resurrected and had bodies. They were not disembodied souls.

Jesus is lord both of the living and the dead. He has a right to speak to any of his subjects at any time. The transfiguration did not involve the use of mediums.

Mostly correct. As I stated to begin with---> Reincarnation was never an official teaching of "mainstream Christianity."
And as I also said Christ did not object to the Apostles suggestion of reincarnation.
And there is this.....belief control in the pews is a pipe dream.
As far as the transfiguration goes, I agree on that....miracle vs magic.
As far as people that had been resurrected bodies.....we do not know what kind of bodies they had....the zombie apocalypse kind or the shiny pretty kind.
With 30,000 plus denominations you will need a Gatling Gun if you are going to question whether people are Christian or not. The scriptures say that that the Apostles suggested reincarnation and Yeshua did not object. So it is scriptural but the details fall in a grey area.
I am still on the fence with the topic....open minded. Plenty of documentation and plenty of research....no proof. I do not consider reincarnation non-Christian. As it stands biblical proof exists, but is not well defined but merely suggestions and speculations regarding Christ and also what was going on with John the Baptist. They have been trying to figure out John the Baptist for centuries.

 

[theophilus]

The scriptures say that that the Apostles suggested reincarnation and Yeshua did not object. So it is scriptural but the details fall in a grey area.

I only know one time the apostles may have suggested a belief in reincarnation and that is when they asked if the man born blind was suffering for sins he had committed. Jesus clearly told them their belief was wrong so he never supported belief in reincarnation.

John the Baptist could not have been Elijah reincarnated because Elijah never died.

Some people try to support reincarnation by quoting verses that refer to resurrection. Unless you have been confused by false teaching on this subject it should be clear that reincarnation is never taught or even hinted at in the Bible. Of course there have always been false prophets and teachers trying to mislead believers and some of them have tried to introduce the subject of reincarnation.

 

[jaybird]

I only know one time the apostles may have suggested a belief in reincarnation and that is when they asked if the man born blind was suffering for sins he had committed. Jesus clearly told them their belief was wrong so he never supported belief in reincarnation.

John the Baptist could not have been Elijah reincarnated because Elijah never died.

Some people try to support reincarnation by quoting verses that refer to resurrection. Unless you have been confused by false teaching on this subject it should be clear that reincarnation is never taught or even hinted at in the Bible. Of course there have always been false prophets and teachers trying to mislead believers and some of them have tried to introduce the subject of reincarnation.

When the apostles asked Jesus if the man born blind had sinned Jesus did not tell them that the idea was wrong he only said that was not why he was born blind. Had they been wrong for believing such an idea Jesus would have set them straight like he had done many other times.
What is "clear" from the passage is that the apostles believed in such ideas.

 

[jaybird]

What happened to this thread, why does no one want to talk about the more riskay subjects anymore?
Secret book of John 14 20
This soul needs to follow another soul in whom the Spirit of life dwells, because she is saved through the Spirit. Then she will never be thrust into flesh again."

 

[Base12]

What happened to this thread, why does no one want to talk about the more riskay subjects anymore?

This Forum is more or less an Echo Chamber when it comes to subjects like these. Those that dare to go against set Dogma are quickly met with hostility. I should know. I am a Christian that believes that the concept of reincarnation is absolutely, one hundred percent Biblical. Consequently, over ninety percent of the interactions I receive from others here are nothing but pure vitriol. That's Cognitive Dissonance for ya.

Anyhow...

I am in the process of making a new movie that goes into Biblical Reincarnation in great detail. As of this moment, I am working on the part of the film that deals with the world's first reincarnations...

• Satan
• Eve
• Adam

 

[Base12]

Take Satan for example...

Genesis 3:14
"And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:"

The verse clearly states that whatever form Satan had before the Fall had now been changed. Satan's new form now goes upon its belly. In addition, Satan became mortal and would eventually die.

For all intents and purposes, that is called reincarnation. The world's first BTW.