Hi Ricky(Ricky W;21632)
A'udzubillaahiminasysyaithonirrojiimBismillaahirrohmaanirrohiimEhm... i wanna ask with you Dave, i hope you mind with this kind of question.If there is some people who worshiping a living snake or a living cow or perhaps a living monkey as their god. Does those people, can considered as making an idol ?
Yes, that would be idololtry. Idolotry starts from the heart, and manifests itself in different ways. One of which is to worship imagaes carved with hands. Idolatry Is Foolishness.From Isaiah 44:9 Those who make an image, all of them are useless, And their precious things shall not profit; They are their own witnesses; They neither see nor know, that they may be ashamed. 10 Who would form a god or mold an image Thatprofits him nothing? 11 Surely all his companions would be ashamed; And the workmen, they are mere men. Let them all be gathered together, Let them stand up; Yet they shall fear, They shall be ashamed together. 12 The blacksmith with the tongs works one in the coals, Fashions it with hammers, And works it with the strength of his arms. Even so, he is hungry, and his strength fails; He drinks no water and is faint. 13 The craftsman stretches out his rule, He marks one out with chalk; He fashions it with a plane, He marks it out with the compass, And makes it like the figure of a man, According to the beauty of a man, that it may remain in the house. 14 He cuts down cedars for himself, And takes the cypress and the oak; He secures it for himself among the trees of the forest. He plants a pine, and the rain nourishes it. 15 Then it shall be for a man to burn, For he will take some of it and warm himself; Yes, he kindles it and bakes bread; Indeed he makes a god and worships it; He makes it a carved image, and falls down to it. 16 He burns half of it in the fire; With this half he eats meat; He roasts a roast, and is satisfied. He even warms himself and says, “ Ah! I am warm, I have seen the fire.” 17 And the rest of it he makes into a god, His carved image. He falls down before it and worships it, Prays to it and says, “ Deliver me, for you are my god!” 18 They do not know nor understand; For He has shut their eyes, so that they cannot see, And their hearts, so that they cannot understand. 19 And no one considers in his heart, Nor is there knowledge nor understanding to say, “ I have burned half of it in the fire, Yes, I have also baked bread on its coals; I have roasted meat and eaten it; And shall I make the rest of it an abomination? Shall I fall down before a block of wood?” 20 He feeds on ashes; A deceived heart has turned him aside; And he cannot deliver his soul, Nor say, “Is there not a lie in my right hand?”===============================================================================================
Dave wrote:
**God made** us in the image of Himself. When Jesus, who is fully God, took on bodily form as a man (incarnate), His body was also made in that image.Take special notice to the fact that God is speaking of Himself in plural in this verse.Genesis 1:26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness;...27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
Ricky wrote:
Let Us in Our image...Watch on that one, if the meaning of Us which is you considered as plural, as the consequence logical that mean There are 2 God with 2 same image. That mean the first and the second has 2 form of human. Now tell me Dave, is that what you believe ?
Col. 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.I don't believe in two God's. With all due respect, in the past, I have confronted your reasoning in this matter based on what you believe, and you never replied to me. Perhaps now we can settle this matter. If you will, please respond to my post in this thread. Thank you.
http://www.christianityboard.com/understan...nity-t3691.html==============================================================================================
Deave wrote:
Colossians 1:15 He (Jesus) is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn
[first in preeminence] over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. 18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.
Ricky wrote:
If we take a look what was foretold in that verse, we can say that Jesus was the first human being born. It is agains what has been told in the Genesis, which is Adam was the first born human being.In the verse 18. I don't know how to understand it, because i see two meanings on it. The first one is it mean that Jesus was the first human that was create, or the second one, that Jesus was rise from the death.I take the first meaning in my writings above that sentences because seems like you are talking about the creation. But then it will be weird if that was like the the first as i already explain above, but if the meaning was from the second, it's also weird, because Jesus was not the first person was raise among the death.
You're close, "firstborn" means first in preeminence, not first in order of physical birth. Jesus certainly was not the first physically raised from the dead, as you have noted, but He is the firstborn (first in preeminence) from the dead. Jesus was never created, He and the Father are One. Firstborn over all Creation does not mean physically born, or created, but first in preeminence.==============================================================================================
Dave wrote:
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
Ricky wrote:
In that verse was not talking about physically things, but it just Word. Not an image as you trying to point at. Nothing said about body or flesh.But the most important of what i'm trying to talking about is if you give me the answer on the first question.Wallahu a'lam.
...John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. 15 John bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is preferred before me, for He was before me.’” 16 And of His fullness we have all received, and grace for grace.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_...er=1&version=50 Thank you for your reply, Ricky, God blessDave