RELIGION: Trying to do in the flesh what God has already done in Jesus Christ

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Robert Pate

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Religion is anti-Gospel and anti-Christ. The word "Law" and the word "Religion" mean the same thing. When one is doing the law, they are doing their religion. When one is doing their religion, they are doing the law. Paul said, "Therefore by the deeds of the law (what we do) no flesh will be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin" Romans 3:20.

The law, like religion cannot save or justify because it is what we do. The Holy Spirit is not given to anyone because of what they do. Paul said, "This only would I learn of you, did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law (because you did something) or by the hearing of faith (hearing and believing the Gospel). Galatians 3:2. The Galatians like many Catholics believed that they could be justified by what they did.

If we could be saved and justified by what we do, then who needs Jesus Christ? This is why Catholicism and other religions are anti-Christ. They are trying to do in their flesh what God has already done in Jesus Christ. Council of Trent. Canon #9. "If anyone says that the sinner is justified by faith alone, meaning nothing else is required to cooperate in order to obtain the grace of justification, and that it is not in any way necessary that he be prepared and disposed by the action of his own will, let him be anathema".

We had nothing, absolutely nothing to do with our salvation. The Gospel took place over 2,000 years ago before we were born. We have ALREADY been reconciled unto God by Jesus Christ. All that we have to do is receive it. Catholics and others want you to think that you have to merit it by doing something. They say: You must repent. You must confess, You must be baptized" You must, you must, you must or you will be anathema.

Catholicism is a religion of the flesh. It is appealing to the flesh, The flesh likes to think that it can please God by what it does (Religion) Paul said, "If righteousness comes by the law (religion) (what we do) then Jesus died in vain" Galatians 2:21. Satan would like for us to think that Jesus died in vain. This means that there was no atonement for sins, so, why believe in Jesus?
 
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Jane_Doe22

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I believe in Jesus. That belief and love of Him compels me to practice my faith/religion. He did say “if you love me, keep my commandments”. I’m not doing this to “earn” anything (that’s laughable), but because of love & belief.
 

Randy Kluth

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Religion is anti-Gospel and anti-Christ. The word "Law" and the word "Religion" mean the same thing. When one is doing the law, they are doing their religion. When one is doing their religion, they are doing the law. Paul said, "Therefore by the deeds of the law (what we do) no flesh will be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin" Romans 3:20.
To create a dichotomy between Religion and True Christianity is to obscure the very meaning of "religion." The Bible identifies "true religion" as serving the needy. Therefore, "true religion" is not anachronistic to true Christianity.

You are talking about a corrupt form of "religion," without clarifying that there is a difference between a corrupt use of the Law and a proper use of the Law. The Bible speaks of using the Law "properly."
The law, like religion cannot save or justify because it is what we do. The Holy Spirit is not given to anyone because of what they do. Paul said, "This only would I learn of you, did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law (because you did something) or by the hearing of faith (hearing and believing the Gospel). Galatians 3:2. The Galatians like many Catholics believed that they could be justified by what they did.
Again, you obscure what it means to "do" something. The Bible indicates that God gives His Spirit to those who "obey" Him. Therefore, "doing" something can be the right thing. Obviously, trying to self-justify is doing the wrong thing.
If we could be saved and justified by what we do, then who needs Jesus Christ?
You are talking about Self-Justification, which confuses the whole argument. Do we "do" something in our Salvation? Do we "do" anything in our Christianity? These are the questions.

Obviously, we do not do anything in regard to Self-Justification. We do not Self-Atone. Christ alone is our Atonement. Christ alone is our Justification.

But are we to "do" something to obtain Christ? Of course. We have to *receive* him! We are given the option to respond to his gracious offer or not. We can indeed respond to the revelation of his grace simply by assenting to it, and by then choosing to live by it. He is the one who initiates, and we are the one who consents.
 

Robert Pate

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To create a dichotomy between Religion and True Christianity is to obscure the very meaning of "religion." The Bible identifies "true religion" as serving the needy. Therefore, "true religion" is not anachronistic to true Christianity.

You are talking about a corrupt form of "religion," without clarifying that there is a difference between a corrupt use of the Law and a proper use of the Law. The Bible speaks of using the Law "properly."

Again, you obscure what it means to "do" something. The Bible indicates that God gives His Spirit to those who "obey" Him. Therefore, "doing" something can be the right thing. Obviously, trying to self-justify is doing the wrong thing.

You are talking about Self-Justification, which confuses the whole argument. Do we "do" something in our Salvation? Do we "do" anything in our Christianity? These are the questions.

Obviously, we do not do anything in regard to Self-Justification. We do not Self-Atone. Christ alone is our Atonement. Christ alone is our Justification.

But are we to "do" something to obtain Christ? Of course. We have to *receive* him! We are given the option to respond to his gracious offer or not. We can indeed respond to the revelation of his grace simply by assenting to it, and by then choosing to live by it. He is the one who initiates, and we are the one who consents.
You have no scripture to support your opinions. This is what religious people do.
 
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Robert Pate

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I believe in Jesus. That belief and love of Him compels me to practice my faith/religion. He did say “if you love me, keep my commandments”. I’m not doing this to “earn” anything (that’s laughable), but because of love & belief.
The law and the commandments have been abolished, Ephesians 2:15. Jesus nailed them to his Cross, Colossians 2:14. So, what are you going to do now?
 
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Jane_Doe22

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The law and the commandments have been abolished, Ephesians 2:15. Jesus nailed them to his Cross, Colossians 2:14. So, what are you going to do now?
Read the Bible and keep following what the Son of God Himself says to do:

John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
 

Robert Pate

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Read the Bible and keep following what the Son of God Himself says to do:

John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
But the commandments have been abolished. Do you think that Paul is a heretic?
 

Jane_Doe22

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But the commandments have been abolished. Do you think that Paul is a heretic?
I believe that your interpretation of "religion = no need for Christ" is incorrect.

The old Law of Moses is done away with (ritual sacrifice, etc), which is what Ephesians 2:15 is referring to. Instead we offer up our hearts in the New Covenant. And even when a person does their very best to live the New Covenant, they are still going to mess up and need Christ to fulfill God's laws. We do all of this following Him out of love & discipleship to Him. HIs sacrifice is essential. And on that same note, He didn't suffer and die so that we can say "hey, that's great, I now have a license to commit adultery forever! Thanks bro!". No.
 

Randy Kluth

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You have no scripture to support your opinions. This is what religious people do.
I'm sorry you're such an angry person. Perhaps you need to deal with your "bitterness" 1st before trying to address some of these issues? Calling me a name you've personally identified as a name of contempt is inappropriate when we're just beginning a conversation. If you wish to have a better discussion, with Bible references, try to come off a little friendlier?
 
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Robert Pate

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I'm sorry you're such an angry person. Perhaps you need to deal with your "bitterness" 1st before trying to address some of these issues? Calling me a name you've personally identified as a name of contempt is inappropriate when we're just beginning a conversation. If you wish to have a better discussion, with Bible references, try to come off a little friendlier?
I am not angry with anyone. When you get refuted, you interpret it as anger. If you want to dispute what I say, then do it with scripture.
 

Randy Kluth

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I am not angry with anyone. When you get refuted, you interpret it as anger. If you want to dispute what I say, then do it with scripture.
You insulted me by stating that I'm being "religious" whatever that means, when we haven't even discussed what you mean by that. What I do know is that you begin our conversation by identifying me with a name you consider insulting.

I will answer in a way I feel is appropriate. Saying I must back up each statement with Scripture each time I post, particularly when we're just beginning a conversation, is ridiculous.

If you wish to genuinely discuss subjects, try reining in your "rage." Why you begin by treating me like "the enemy" is beyond me, unless you have personal issues?
 

Randy Kluth

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We all need a little polish, don't we?

Much love!
Yes, I try to get started on the right foot. If not, it won't end well, and it certainly won't "enlighten" anybody! ;)
My ancestors weren't Polish, but they did manage to get through that country and come to the US. And I think they did it with great care! ;)
 
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Robert Pate

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I believe that your interpretation of "religion = no need for Christ" is incorrect.

The old Law of Moses is done away with (ritual sacrifice, etc), which is what Ephesians 2:15 is referring to. Instead we offer up our hearts in the New Covenant. And even when a person does their very best to live the New Covenant, they are still going to mess up and need Christ to fulfill God's laws. We do all of this following Him out of love & discipleship to Him. HIs sacrifice is essential. And on that same note, He didn't suffer and die so that we can say "hey, that's great, I now have a license to commit adultery forever! Thanks bro!". No.
Who said that we don't need Christ? What we don't need is laws, rules and religion. Paul said, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to those that believe" Romans 10:4.
You insulted me by stating that I'm being "religious" whatever that means, when we haven't even discussed what you mean by that. What I do know is that you begin our conversation by identifying me with a name you consider insulting.

I will answer in a way I feel is appropriate. Saying I must back up each statement with Scripture each time I post, particularly when we're just beginning a conversation, is ridiculous.

If you wish to genuinely discuss subjects, try reining in your "rage." Why you begin by treating me like "the enemy" is beyond me, unless you have personal issues?
If you are going to challenge me about what I believe, then you are going to have to prove me wrong with scripture. If you can't do that then maybe you should not respond to what I post.
 
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Randy Kluth

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Who said that we don't need Christ? What we don't need is laws, rules and religion. Paul said, "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to those that believe" Romans 10:4.

If you are going to challenge me about what I believe, then you are going to have to prove me wrong with scripture. If you can't do that then maybe you should not respond to what I post.
Yes, you are utterly unable to address the pertinent issue here, which is your attitude. Why argue with an "arguer?"
 

Randy Kluth

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If you don't have scripture, then all that you have is hot air.
That's the attitude I'm talking about. In Christianity "attitude" itself is a "biblical issue." We are not to argue with "arguers," nor with those who wish to stir things up.

If you are able to change your attitude and act like a Christian I'd be happy to engage you on any issue or question you wish to post. But until then I'm to stay away from those who really only want to infect others with their attitude.

2 Tim 3.But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.
 

Robert Pate

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That's the attitude I'm talking about. In Christianity "attitude" itself is a "biblical issue." We are not to argue with "arguers," nor with those who wish to stir things up.

If you are able to change your attitude and act like a Christian I'd be happy to engage you on any issue or question you wish to post. But until then I'm to stay away from those who really only want to infect others with their attitude.

2 Tim 3.But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.
Without the Bible we have nothing. The Bible reveals Christ and his Gospel, which calls all things into question. You need to know more about the Bible and the New Covenant that changed everything.
 

mailmandan

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James 1:26 - If anyone among you thinks he is religious, and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this one's religion is useless. This man's religion is vain, empty, devoid of power, lacking in content, nonproductive, dead and of no eternal value.

James 1:27 - Pure and undefiled religion before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world.

There is nothing wrong with "pure and undefiled religion" but there is certainly something wrong with impure and defiled religion.
 
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Randy Kluth

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Without the Bible we have nothing. The Bible reveals Christ and his Gospel, which calls all things into question. You need to know more about the Bible and the New Covenant that changed everything.
I've spent my life reading and studying the Bible, as well as trying to live it. But without love, it is a vain exercise, an external exercise. We need to "judge ourselves, lest we be judged." If we do this, our biblical studies will be fruitful, and biblical quotation will have meaning. Otherwise, we will be turning plowshares into swords, right?