Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy

[Rollo Tamasi]

We are to love God 24/7. We simply are not permitted to work on the 7th day Sabbath.

I notice you post on Sabbath.
How do you justify that?

Muktzeh: Things You Can’t Even Touch
Any items that may not be used on the Sabbath may not even be handled on that day, lest one unintentionally perform one of the forbidden types of work. These objects are termed muktzeh, meaning to “set aside” or “store away.” Among the many things considered muktzeh are money and checks; scissors, hammers and saws; pencils and pens; battery-operated toys and flashlights; radios and CDs; telephones and computers; and certain religious objects such as shofar, tefillin, and lulav. Even the Sabbath candlesticks are muktzeh and thus should not be touched on the Sabbath after the candles have been lit.

 

[brakelite]

So are you saying that all this depends on the interpretation for Mathew 28:1-2???
I could find out lickity split.

After 4000 years of Sabbath observance...a public announcement by God Himself from a mountain in the middle of the Arabian desert amid thunder, trumpet blasts and lightening...prophets repeating the call for faithfulness to the 4th commandment...the Son Himself coming to clarify the meaning of it and give it honour...and a change brought about on the dubious interpretation of one verse? One would think such a dramatic change in the law of God would come with something more definite don'y you think? And while I'm on that point, the Pharisees were a curious bunch. Sticklers for the law, when they turned Christian many had a great deal of trouble accepting the change in circumcision, to the point of disputing with Paul over the matter, and doing the rounds of all the churches trying to convince Jewish converts that they must still be circumcised. Sticklers for the law all right. And yet Sunday keepers would have us believe that these same legalists were quite happy to give up their traditional Sabbath for a new day dedicated originally to the Mithraic sun god of Rome, and they don't argue?

 

[brakelite]

I see scripture speaking of the first day of the week. As in John 20:1, the first day of the week was Sunday, not Saturday.
I know this is more complicated than I understand, but I am going to ask someone who will know what Mathew 28:1 is all about. It says Sabbaths twice -- I'm going to find out what it says in the original koine Greek.

This is why we worship on Sunday.
However, it does seem to me that we ARE breaking a commandment --- to worship on the Sabbath.

Not meaning to be picky, but it is important to know that the commandment is not about worship. It is about keeping the day holy. Yes, worship is in line with keeping the day holy, but we can worship on any day can't we, and do. So, it is more about maintaining the holiness of a day already made holy by a holy God. Regardless of what you find in Matthew 28, there will be nothing about God removing His blessing and sanctity from the day. Nothing.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

I see scripture speaking of the first day of the week. As in John 20:1, the first day of the week was Sunday, not Saturday.
I know this is more complicated than I understand, but I am going to ask someone who will know what Mathew 28:1 is all about. It says Sabbaths twice -- I'm going to find out what it says in the original koine Greek.

God willing I might be of help.

By the way, in John 12 verse 12 "the following day" was five days, not the according to verse 1 previous day "six days before the passover". 'Palm Sunday' was five days "TO / before ['eis'] the Feast / EAT days ['tehn heortehn']" of ulb.

To continue BTGOG.

 

[GodsGrace]

Not meaning to be picky, but it is important to know that the commandment is not about worship. It is about keeping the day holy. Yes, worship is in line with keeping the day holy, but we can worship on any day can't we, and do. So, it is more about maintaining the holiness of a day already made holy by a holy God. Regardless of what you find in Matthew 28, there will be nothing about God removing His blessing and sanctity from the day. Nothing.

Yes. I mis-spoke. I agree with you of course; that it's about keeping the day holy.
We can worship every day and should worship God every day and every moment.
Anyway, how can we be sure Jesus did not resurrect at the end of the Sabbath?
The tomb was already empty when the Marys got there on Sunday.

 

[GodsGrace]

God willing I might be of help.

By the way, in John 12 verse 12 "the following day" was five days, not the according to verse 1 previous day "six days before the passover". 'Palm Sunday' was five days "TO / before ['eis'] the Feast / EAT days ['tehn heortehn']" of ulb.

To continue BTGOG.

6 days before the Passover had to be Saturday?
I always understood that Jesus went to Lazarus' house on Friday.
So the "next day" would be Saturday and not Sunday (for the entrance into Jerusalem).
Comment?

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

I see scripture speaking of the first day of the week. As in John 20:1, the first day of the week was Sunday, not Saturday.
I know this is more complicated than I understand, but I am going to ask someone who will know what Mathew 28:1 is all about. It says Sabbaths twice -- I'm going to find out what it says in the original koine Greek.

Keeping in mind the use and meaning of the word 'eis' in John 12:12, would you agree most basic in English it would be, "before" or "towards" or "approaching" or "nearing" or "unto" --more or less synonymous with 'pro' - "before" in 12:1?

 

[GodsGrace]

Keeping in mind the use and meaning of the word 'eis' in John 12:12, would you agree most basic in English it would be, "before" or "towards" or "approaching" or "nearing" or "unto" --more or less synonymous with 'pro' - "before" in 12:1?

You're asking me as if I knew Greek. I'm not the one who knows it, but a friend of mine. A priest that taught theology and koine Greek and reads the bible in KG. I don't think we can do this ourselves.

I'd like to ask him regarding Mathew 28:1
John 12:1 and
John 12:12

But what exactly am I asking??!
What is the point of contention??

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

6 days before the Passover had to be Saturday?
I always understood that Jesus went to Lazarus' house on Friday.
So the "next day" would be Saturday and not Sunday (for the entrance into Jerusalem).
Comment?

Re: 'I always understood that Jesus went to Lazarus' house on Friday.' Yes, but Jesus had days before departed for Jerusalem from Ephraim

ἀπῆλθεν ἐκεῖθεν εἰς τὴν χώραν ἐγγὺς τῆς ἐρήμου,
He went thence unto a country near to the wilderness,

εἰς Ἐφραὶμ λεγομένην πόλιν,
into a city called Ephraim, κἀκεῖ ἔμεινεν μετὰ τῶν μαθητῶν.
and there continued with his disciples.

55 Ἦν δὲ ἐγγὺς τὸ πάσχα τῶν Ἰουδαίων, καὶ ἀνέβησαν πολλοὶ εἰς
And the Jews' passover was nigh at hand: and many went out

Ἱεροσόλυμα ἐκ τῆς χώρας πρὸ τοῦ πάσχα ἵνα ἁγνίσωσιν ἑαυτούς.
up to Jerusalem before the passover to purify themselves. [Jh18:28b]

ἐζήτουν οὖν τὸν Ἰησοῦν καὶ ἔλεγον μετ’ ἀλλήλων ἐν τῷ ἱερῷ
Then sought they for Jesus, and spake among themselves…

ἑστηκότες Τί δοκεῖ ὑμῖν; ὅτι οὐ μὴ ἔλθῃ εἰς τὴν ἑορτήν;
in the temple as they stood, What think ye that he will not come to the feast?

John 12:1-11
Ὁ οὖν Ἰησοῦς πρὸ ἓξ ἡμερῶν τοῦ πάσχα ἦλθεν εἰς Βηθανίαν
Then Jesus six days before the passover came to Bethany

ὅπου ἦν Λάζαρος, ὃν ἤγειρεν ἐκ νεκρῶν Ἰησοῦς.
where Lazarus was which had been dead, whom he raised from the dead.

ἐποίησαν οὖν αὐτῷ δεῖπνον ἐκεῖ, καὶ ἡ Μάρθα διηκόνει,
There they made him ...lunch; and Martha served:
...on the Sabbath.

Jesus came and arrived in Bethany before the Sabbath where Lazarus stayed where Martha served Him, on the Sabbath, "six days before the Feast-days" of eating ulb. "On the next morning (day, Sunday)" Jesus went to and entered into Jerusalem "on the tenth day of the First Month", five days "before the Feast days" of eating ulb.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Not meaning to be picky, but it is important to know that the commandment is not about worship. It is about keeping the day holy. Yes, worship is in line with keeping the day holy, but we can worship on any day can't we, and do. So, it is more about maintaining the holiness of a day already made holy by a holy God. Regardless of what you find in Matthew 28, there will be nothing about God removing His blessing and sanctity from the day. Nothing.

I hope you didn't turn on a light switch this past Friday night

 

[GodsGrace]

Re: 'I always understood that Jesus went to Lazarus' house on Friday.' Yes, but Jesus had days before departed for Jerusalem from Ephraim

ἀπῆλθεν ἐκεῖθεν εἰς τὴν χώραν ἐγγὺς τῆς ἐρήμου,
He went thence unto a country near to the wilderness,

εἰς Ἐφραὶμ λεγομένην πόλιν,
into a city called Ephraim, κἀκεῖ ἔμεινεν μετὰ τῶν μαθητῶν.
and there continued with his disciples.

55 Ἦν δὲ ἐγγὺς τὸ πάσχα τῶν Ἰουδαίων, καὶ ἀνέβησαν πολλοὶ εἰς
And the Jews' passover was nigh at hand: and many went out

Ἱεροσόλυμα ἐκ τῆς χώρας πρὸ τοῦ πάσχα ἵνα ἁγνίσωσιν ἑαυτούς.
up to Jerusalem before the passover to purify themselves. [Jh18:28b]

ἐζήτουν οὖν τὸν Ἰησοῦν καὶ ἔλεγον μετ’ ἀλλήλων ἐν τῷ ἱερῷ
Then sought they for Jesus, and spake among themselves…

ἑστηκότες Τί δοκεῖ ὑμῖν; ὅτι οὐ μὴ ἔλθῃ εἰς τὴν ἑορτήν;
in the temple as they stood, What think ye that he will not come to the feast?

John 12:1-11
Ὁ οὖν Ἰησοῦς πρὸ ἓξ ἡμερῶν τοῦ πάσχα ἦλθεν εἰς Βηθανίαν
Then Jesus six days before the passover came to Bethany

ὅπου ἦν Λάζαρος, ὃν ἤγειρεν ἐκ νεκρῶν Ἰησοῦς.
where Lazarus was which had been dead, whom he raised from the dead.

ἐποίησαν οὖν αὐτῷ δεῖπνον ἐκεῖ, καὶ ἡ Μάρθα διηκόνει,
There they made him ...lunch; and Martha served:
...on the Sabbath.

Jesus came and arrived in Bethany before the Sabbath where Lazarus stayed where Martha served Him, on the Sabbath, "six days before the Feast-days" of eating ulb. "On the next morning (day, Sunday)" Jesus went to and entered into Jerusalem "on the tenth day of the First Month", five days "before the Feast days" of eating ulb.

So you're saying Jesus arrived at Lazarus on Saturday and then entered into Jerusalem on Sunday. OK. This is what is taught.
I guess when you get right down to it, it doesn't really matter what John 12:12 says. The problem I have is this:
The commandment says to keep holy the Sabbath. That's Saturday.
It's a commandment just like all the other ones we're supposed to keep.
It changed to Sunday, as far as I can understand, to combat the pagan worship of the sun god on Sunday...so IOW, the Christians "stole" Sunday away from the pagans. The reason for this could be because pagans were so used to Sunday worship and it might have made it easier to convert them. After Constantine Christianity was accepted and spread all over Europe.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

You're asking me as if I knew Greek. I'm not the one who knows it, but a friend of mine.

I am asking you if you think that the KJV, saying that the people "that were come to the feast when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem", says that they came TO the feast BEFORE the feast... not on it?

 

[brakelite]

I hope you didn't turn on a light switch this past Friday night

If you can show me from scripture how turning a light switch on desecrates Sabbath, I'll listen. And even if it does, how does that excuse you in doing the same?

 

[GodsGrace]

I am asking you if you think that the KJV, saying that the people "that were come to the feast when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem", says that they came TO the feast BEFORE the feast... not on it?

Yes. I've read several bibles, including an Italian one.
I believe it means on the day of the feast, the crowd gathered to see Jesus.
The Italian bible says it like this:
"The day after the crowd had gathered for the feast, having heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem, took palms and went to meet Him."

So it sounds to me that it was the day of the feast when the crowd gathered to meet Jesus.

P.S. The day after...the day after Jesus had dinner at the house of Lazarus.

 

[brakelite]

So you're saying Jesus arrived at Lazarus on Saturday and then entered into Jerusalem on Sunday. OK. This is what is taught.
I guess when you get right down to it, it doesn't really matter what John 12:12 says. The problem I have is this:
The commandment says to keep holy the Sabbath. That's Saturday.
It's a commandment just like all the other ones we're supposed to keep.
It changed to Sunday, as far as I can understand, to combat the pagan worship of the sun god on Sunday...so IOW, the Christians "stole" Sunday away from the pagans. The reason for this could be because pagans were so used to Sunday worship and it might have made it easier to convert them. After Constantine Christianity was accepted and spread all over Europe.

I think you would be partly correct in the above...the dynamics of the change took place over several centuries, many influences came into play. The Jewish uprising against Rome and Rome's easy recognition of Jews because of their Sabbath keeping....the Catholic church's change from passover to easter (one of the many pagan compromises in the early church, including the trinity and Sunday sacredness) after which Sunday keeping was emphasized...and papal Rome's hatred of the Sabbath because it was a sign of rejection of papal authority.
As for what day Jesus rose and what day He entered Jerusalem and what day Pentecost...all essentially irrelevant. Once Jesus died...once His blood confirmed the covenant and no word from Him had changed anything, then that sealed the deal. No apostle, no church, no council then had the right to change the testament. Any change was a usurpation of authority.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

I guess when you get right down to it, it doesn't really matter what John 12:12 says. The problem I have is this:

The commandment says to keep holy the Sabbath. That's Saturday.

It's a commandment just like all the other ones we're supposed to keep.

It changed to Sunday, as far as I can understand, to combat the pagan worship of the sun god on Sunday...so IOW, the Christians "stole" Sunday away from the pagans. The reason for this could be because pagans were so used to Sunday worship and it might have made it easier to convert them. After Constantine Christianity was accepted and spread all over Europe.

Surely when you get down right to the foundations of this historic fulfilment by Jesus of the Passover of Yahweh, it really matters what "ALL the Scriptures concerning the Christ, HOW THAT HE HAD TO SUFFER" it, have to say. The problem though, I can see, is:

The commandment says to keep holy the Sabbath. That's "the day The Seventh Day GOD, from ALL, HIS, WORKS, RESTED" “having raised Christ from the dead” ON IT.


The Sabbath did not of itself 'change to Sunday'. It not at all 'changed to Sunday'. As far as recorded history is concerned, to combat the pagan worship of the no-god sun-god the sun on Sunday, Justin was forced to steal Jesus’ Resurrection— as he thought, for the sake of Christianity—, away from the Sabbath in order to bestow upon the pagan day of worshipping the sun some semblance of being (“also”), a Christian value or ‘custom’. The reason for this was indeed as you say, ‘because pagans were so used to Sunday worship and it might have made it easier to convert them’ to Christianity if only Christians were prepared to disallow the Sabbath’s ONLY Christian virtue and reason for being, namely, the Resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead ON IT, and to place their worship “on the day of the sun” instead.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Yes. I've read several bibles, including an Italian one.
I believe it means on the day of the feast, the crowd gathered to see Jesus.
The Italian bible says it like this:
"The day after the crowd had gathered for the feast, having heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem, took palms and went to meet Him."

So it sounds to me that it was the day of the feast when the crowd gathered to meet Jesus.

P.S. The day after...the day after Jesus had dinner at the house of Lazarus.

I think you meant to say that it was when the crowd gathered to meet Jesus as He entered Jerusalem, the Sunday the day after the day Jesus was served a meal in the house of Lazarus before the feast...?

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

the dynamics of the change took place over several centuries, many influences came into play. The Jewish uprising against Rome and Rome's easy recognition of Jews because of their Sabbath keeping....the Catholic church's change from passover to easter (one of the many pagan compromises in the early church, including the trinity and Sunday sacredness) after which Sunday keeping was emphasized...and papal Rome's hatred of the Sabbath because it was a sign of rejection of papal authority.

One hundred percent AGREED! But none of these things by itself or together can constitute the heart of what the contention is over. The HEART is on which day of the week, "on the Sabbath", or, 'on the day of the Sun after the day of Saturn' CHRIST ROSE FROM THE DEAD!?

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

brakelite said: ↑
Not meaning to be picky, but it is important to know that the commandment is not about worship. It is about keeping the day holy. Yes, worship is in line with keeping the day holy, but we can worship on any day can't we, and do. So, it is more about maintaining the holiness of a day already made holy by a holy God. Regardless of what you find in Matthew 28, there will be nothing about God removing His blessing and sanctity from the day. Nothing.

Yes. I mis-spoke. I agree with you of course; that it's about keeping the day holy.
We can worship every day and should worship God every day and every moment.
Anyway, how can we be sure Jesus did not resurrect at the end of the Sabbath?
The tomb was already empty when the Marys got there on Sunday.

Both of you speak of and about the Sabbath as if it is man and man's doings or not doings and man's will and choice over and about the Sabbath, and not God's or God's will and decision over and about it; as if man and not the Lord of the Sabbath has sovereignty over "the Lord's Day", "Sabbath OF THE LORD GOD". For WHO is 'maintaining the holiness' of the Sabbath other than the "Son of Man", "Lord of the Sabbath", Jesus Christ, the "Son of God"?

NEVER in the Scripture does one encounter ANYTHING NEAR concerning Sunday, 'the day of the lord Sun'!

 

[Jun2u]

Really? Please provide a source.

My source of reference is Strongs Greek Concordance #3342 and is only found in Acts 13:42. This piece of evidence not only confirms that the Gentile believers already have started to worship on Sundays, but it also confirms that Matthew 28:1 was definitely pointing to Sunday Sabbaths “as it began to dawn towards the first of the Sabbaths.”

I hope this helps



To God Be The Glory