BreadOfLife said:
I’m not a “skilled lawyer”. I’m just a Catholic who prefers to debate FACTS instead of preconceives prejudices.
YOU obviously don’t.
Sounds like something a lawyer would say.
When I called you a ”nominal” former Catholic – it wasn’t meant as an insult. It was merely based on my observation of your perception of what you believe the Catholic Church teaches. Even your use of the “Roman Catholic Church” is flawed, as there is NO such thing. “Roman” refers to the Liturgical Rite that I belong to. There are about TWENTY others including the Maronite, Byzantine, Alexandrian, Melkite, Coptic and others. NONE of them are “Roman” Catholics – but they are ALL Catholics. The official name of the Catholic Church is – “The Catholic Church”.
The word "Catholic" simply means "universal." So you are saying there is more than one "Catholic" church?
The Catholic Church doesn’t “mix” anything that the Bible doesn’t. YOUR idea that we don’t have to cooperate with God’s grace in order to be saved is what is anti-Biblical. This was a 16th century invention of your Protestant Fathers – and NOT a teaching of Jesus or the Apostles.
The Roman Catholic church has "added" non-canonical books and tradition to the Bible. Placing our faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation is cooperating with God's grace. For by grace you have been saved through faith.. (Ephesians 2:8) Having been justified by faith.. (Romans 5:1) We have access by faith into grace.. (Romans 5:2) Works salvation is not cooperating with God's grace and is anti-Biblical. (Romans 4:5-6; 11:6; Ephesians 2:8-9; 2 Timothy 1:9).
Tell me – in the Lesson of the Sheep and the Goats (Matt. 25:31-46) – WHO makes it into Heaven?
The Goats, that didn’t cooperate – or the Sheep that DID??
The lesson of the sheep and the goats is not salvation by works. After a casual reading of the sheep and goats (Matthew 25:31-46), these verses "on the surface" may seem to suggest that salvation is the result of good works. Yet all Scripture proves itself right and non-contradictory when compared with the totality of Scripture. Jesus was not advocating salvation by works. That would be contrary to Romans 4:4-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; 2 Timothy 1:9; Titus 3:5 etc... One's works are an effect of (and therefore indication of) one's salvation status, rather than being a cause of one's salvation.
The good deeds mentioned in Matthew 25:35-36 is the fruit that is manifest in the lives of the sheep. Those who are placed at Christ's right hand are not there based on the merits of their good deeds, but because of the
imputed righteousness of God which is by faith (Romans 4:5-6; Philippians 3:9). When works are mentioned in association with salvation, the works are always the
result of and not the means of basis of, receiving salvation. The stress is on works as a manifestation of one's faith (or lack thereof) and not simply on faith from which these works "follow." So it is understandable that in this context, Matthew would stress the works done in love (faith works through love - Galatians 5:6) which are a manifestation of
faith by which one receives eternal life.
What does Jesus warn in Matt 7:21? That whoever calls on His name will be saved, as stated in Rom. 10:13 – or ONLY the one who DOES the will of the Father (Gal. 5:6)??
Whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. I believe Romans 10:13. When you call on the Lord to save you it is that you trust in him to come to your aid. Inherent in your calling upon Jesus is the essential faith that he can and will save you. So, in essence, to call on the name of the Lord unto salvation is to believe in Christ as Lord and Savior, that He alone is the ALL-sufficient means of your salvation and will provide for you eternal life. These many people in Matthew 7:21-23 did not do the will of the Father. They were trusting in their works for salvation and not in Christ alone.
Jesus never knew them which means they were never saved. *John 6:40 - For
my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and
believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
According to Paul – WHO will reap glory, honor and immortality? The one who DOES the will oif God – the one who doesn’t (Rom. 2:6-8)??
There is a difference between doing God's will IN ORDER TO BECOME SAVED (John 6:40) and doing God's will AFTER WE HAVE BEEN SAVED. (1 Thessalonians 5:14-18) In regards to Romans 2:6-8, those who teach salvation by faith AND works confuse 'descriptive' passages of scripture with 'prescriptive' passages of Scripture. If one reads Romans 2:6-8 in isolation from the rest of the book of Romans, one might conclude that Paul was teaching salvation by works. However, it's imperative to keep in mind that these verses do not describe how one becomes saved, but the way the saved (and unsaved) conduct their lives. These good deeds done are the result of, not the means or basis of receiving eternal life.
So patient continuance in well doing, seeking for glory, honor, and immortality; (vs. 7) is not at all set forth as the means of their procuring eternal life, but as a
description of those to whom God does render life eternal. *Notice that
ALL who receive eternal life are
described as such,
everyone who does good (vs. 10). Good deeds flow from a heart that is saved and evil deeds flow from a heart that is unsaved. Verse 8 - but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath. *Notice that
ALL who do not receive eternal life are
described as such,
everyone who does evil (vs. 9).
What those passages convey is though our deeds are judged by God, it's not the good deeds themselves which are the basis or means by which we obtain salvation, but the type of deeds expose whether our heart was saved, or not. These good deeds done out of faith are the fruit, not the root of our salvation. If Paul wanted to teach that we are saved by works, then he would have clearly stated that we are saved through faith
and works in Ephesians 2:8 and that we are justified by faith
and works in Romans 5:1 but that is clearly NOT what Paul said. Also see (Romans 4:2-6; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..).
CONTINUED...