Renewable Salvation

[Charlie24]

@Charlie24

According to your doctrine, God kills and harms poor humans with a sin nature.

He demands the impossible from man and then murders them for their inevitable failure.

You’re comfortable with that?

No!!! God did not give man the sin nature, God told man "if you eat of this tree you will surely die."

In all of the Garden of Eden, God told man of ONE SINGLE tree not to eat from, but man did not believe God and did it anyway.

When that man and woman fell, with the death sentence now in force, all the descendants born from that man and woman are born with that fallen nature. God holds to the Laws He has made, and He abides by the Laws, and once more, He makes sure that man has access to the knowledge of those Laws. And we have them in His Word!

Because man is stupid, and now has fallen into this awful mess of the sin nature from disobedience, God has reached out with Mercy, and Grace, toward man, that we may have a way to come back in relationship with Him.

He did that by giving His Son, to do what we could not do for ourselves, living a perfect life, fulfilling the righteousness of the Law, that by faith, and only through faith we can become righteous before God within the boundaries of His Laws.

It's called Grace, and only possible by Grace, there is not other way that God will accept.

 

[amigo de christo]

1 John 1:8 - if we say that we have no sin, (present tense) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, (past tense) we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

 

[mailmandan]

BreadOfLife said:
I’m not a “skilled lawyer”. I’m just a Catholic who prefers to debate FACTS instead of preconceives prejudices.
YOU obviously don’t.

Sounds like something a lawyer would say.

When I called you a ”nominal” former Catholic – it wasn’t meant as an insult. It was merely based on my observation of your perception of what you believe the Catholic Church teaches. Even your use of the “Roman Catholic Church” is flawed, as there is NO such thing. “Roman” refers to the Liturgical Rite that I belong to. There are about TWENTY others including the Maronite, Byzantine, Alexandrian, Melkite, Coptic and others. NONE of them are “Roman” Catholics – but they are ALL Catholics. The official name of the Catholic Church is – “The Catholic Church”.

The word "Catholic" simply means "universal." So you are saying there is more than one "Catholic" church?

The Catholic Church doesn’t “mix” anything that the Bible doesn’t. YOUR idea that we don’t have to cooperate with God’s grace in order to be saved is what is anti-Biblical. This was a 16th century invention of your Protestant Fathers – and NOT a teaching of Jesus or the Apostles.

The Roman Catholic church has "added" non-canonical books and tradition to the Bible. Placing our faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation is cooperating with God's grace. For by grace you have been saved through faith.. (Ephesians 2:8) Having been justified by faith.. (Romans 5:1) We have access by faith into grace.. (Romans 5:2) Works salvation is not cooperating with God's grace and is anti-Biblical. (Romans 4:5-6; 11:6; Ephesians 2:8-9; 2 Timothy 1:9).

Tell me – in the Lesson of the Sheep and the Goats (Matt. 25:31-46) – WHO makes it into Heaven?
The Goats, that didn’t cooperate – or the Sheep that DID??

The lesson of the sheep and the goats is not salvation by works. After a casual reading of the sheep and goats (Matthew 25:31-46), these verses "on the surface" may seem to suggest that salvation is the result of good works. Yet all Scripture proves itself right and non-contradictory when compared with the totality of Scripture. Jesus was not advocating salvation by works. That would be contrary to Romans 4:4-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; 2 Timothy 1:9; Titus 3:5 etc... One's works are an effect of (and therefore indication of) one's salvation status, rather than being a cause of one's salvation.

The good deeds mentioned in Matthew 25:35-36 is the fruit that is manifest in the lives of the sheep. Those who are placed at Christ's right hand are not there based on the merits of their good deeds, but because of the imputed righteousness of God which is by faith (Romans 4:5-6; Philippians 3:9). When works are mentioned in association with salvation, the works are always the result of and not the means of basis of, receiving salvation. The stress is on works as a manifestation of one's faith (or lack thereof) and not simply on faith from which these works "follow." So it is understandable that in this context, Matthew would stress the works done in love (faith works through love - Galatians 5:6) which are a manifestation of faith by which one receives eternal life.

What does Jesus warn in Matt 7:21? That whoever calls on His name will be saved, as stated in Rom. 10:13 – or ONLY the one who DOES the will of the Father (Gal. 5:6)??

Whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be saved. I believe Romans 10:13. When you call on the Lord to save you it is that you trust in him to come to your aid. Inherent in your calling upon Jesus is the essential faith that he can and will save you. So, in essence, to call on the name of the Lord unto salvation is to believe in Christ as Lord and Savior, that He alone is the ALL-sufficient means of your salvation and will provide for you eternal life. These many people in Matthew 7:21-23 did not do the will of the Father. They were trusting in their works for salvation and not in Christ alone. Jesus never knew them which means they were never saved. *John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

According to Paul – WHO will reap glory, honor and immortality? The one who DOES the will oif God – the one who doesn’t (Rom. 2:6-8)??

There is a difference between doing God's will IN ORDER TO BECOME SAVED (John 6:40) and doing God's will AFTER WE HAVE BEEN SAVED. (1 Thessalonians 5:14-18) In regards to Romans 2:6-8, those who teach salvation by faith AND works confuse 'descriptive' passages of scripture with 'prescriptive' passages of Scripture. If one reads Romans 2:6-8 in isolation from the rest of the book of Romans, one might conclude that Paul was teaching salvation by works. However, it's imperative to keep in mind that these verses do not describe how one becomes saved, but the way the saved (and unsaved) conduct their lives. These good deeds done are the result of, not the means or basis of receiving eternal life.

So patient continuance in well doing, seeking for glory, honor, and immortality; (vs. 7) is not at all set forth as the means of their procuring eternal life, but as a description of those to whom God does render life eternal. *Notice that ALL who receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does good (vs. 10). Good deeds flow from a heart that is saved and evil deeds flow from a heart that is unsaved. Verse 8 - but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath. *Notice that ALL who do not receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does evil (vs. 9).

What those passages convey is though our deeds are judged by God, it's not the good deeds themselves which are the basis or means by which we obtain salvation, but the type of deeds expose whether our heart was saved, or not. These good deeds done out of faith are the fruit, not the root of our salvation. If Paul wanted to teach that we are saved by works, then he would have clearly stated that we are saved through faith and works in Ephesians 2:8 and that we are justified by faith and works in Romans 5:1 but that is clearly NOT what Paul said. Also see (Romans 4:2-6; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..).

CONTINUED...

 

[mailmandan]

BreadOfLife said:
Does Peter teach that we will be judged merely by our belief – or by how we conduct ourselves (1 Pet. 1:17)??

In John 3:18, Jesus said - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. In Acts 10:43, Peter said - Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins. In Acts 16:30, the jailer asked the question - "Sirs, what must I do to be saved? Acts 16:31 - They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Believers are not judged and condemned with unbelievers and there works will be judged in regards to receiving rewards and loss of rewards. (1 Corinthians 3:11-15)

In Rev. 20:12 – HOW are the people being judged? By their belief – or by their behavior??

This judgment is for the dead, whose names are not found written in the book of life. Notice in verse 13 that death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them. (Revelation 20:12-15) Judged according to their works and some will receive greater condemnation, like these scribes and Pharisees here for example. (Matthew 23:14)

As James taught – if ALL you do is “believe” – then you’re NO better off than the DEMONS who do the same (James 2:19).

In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe in/have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe in/on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Big difference. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

YOUR problem – as is the problem with ALL anti-Catholics is that you erroneously teach that Catholic believe that the works we do are of our OWN. As I already told you – we teach that these are works prepared FOR us in advance by GOD (Eph. 2:10). We either cooperate with Him then – or we don’t.

Whether on our own or in cooperation with God, we are not saved by works in general. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9) The saved by "these" works and just not "those" works bogus argument is a desperate attempt to get around the truth. If you were standing at the gates of heaven right now and Jesus Christ asked you why He should let you into heaven, what would be your answer? Your answer to that question will demonstrate what you have truly placed your faith in/what you are truly trusting in for salvation.

 

[mailmandan]

Interesting video but I'm not sure why you responded to my post with this video. I've been keeping an eye on the coming (not so) great reset.

 

[amigo de christo]

Interesting video but I'm not sure why you responded to my post with this video. I've been keeping an eye on the coming (not so) great reset.

I sent it for one reason and one alone . TO REMIND us and to show us what is occuring and that this was FORETOLD
in a book most reject , THE BIBLE . NIGH TWO thousand years ago
a revelation was given to a christain named john to give unto the churches .
Their own words , NO BUY NO SELL . ITS RIGHT THERE for all to see
and a fancy key chain , or i should say CHIP by which to wear it . DOES any of that sound familiar .
Or how bout this meta verse thing they WEF is so huge on .
A land of images whereby all is controlled by digital identity .
I watch a lady on stage , then i seen her IMAGE appear by her , IT , not she , IT SPOKE
and it can speak in and give a message IN ANY LANGAGUE .
And he had power to give life unto the image that it could SPEAK ....................THIS STUFF WAS ALL FORETOLD
with pin point accuracy and yet folks continue to mock the bible as though its outdated or false . My advice ,
CLING TO JESUS and stay well dug in that bible . I just sent it as a reminder . I had a hunch you already knew all of this .

 

[amigo de christo]

And guess who leads in the digital five g system . THE D TEN . let that sink in a bit . The D not eight , not eleven
BUT TEN LIBERAL DEMOCRACTIC NATIONS . or maybe perhaps TEN KINGS . LOOKS like things are coming
together rather quickly . And the ten kings shall surrender unto the beast and do its will . the beast who was and is not
and yet is , and who was of the seven .

 

[mailmandan]

I sent it for one reason and one alone . TO REMIND us and to show us what is occuring and that this was FORETOLD
in a book most reject , THE BIBLE . NIGH TWO thousand years ago
a revelation was given to a christain named john to give unto the churches .
Their own words , NO BUY NO SELL . ITS RIGHT THERE for all to see
and a fancy key chain , or i should say CHIP by which to wear it . DOES any of that sound familiar .
Or how bout this meta verse thing they WEF is so huge on .
A land of images whereby all is controlled by digital identity .
I watch a lady on stage , then i seen her IMAGE appear by her , IT , not she , IT SPOKE
and it can speak in and give a message IN ANY LANGAGUE .
And he had power to give life unto the image that it could SPEAK ....................THIS STUFF WAS ALL FORETOLD
with pin point accuracy and yet folks continue to mock the bible as though its outdated or false . My advice ,
CLING TO JESUS and stay well dug in that bible . I just sent it as a reminder . I had a hunch you already knew all of this .

I see and yes I'm aware and yes, CLING TO JESUS.

 

[APAK]

In John 3:18, Jesus said - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. In Acts 10:43, Peter said - Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins. In Acts 16:30, the jailer asked the question - "Sirs, what must I do to be saved? Acts 16:31 - They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Believers are not judged and condemned with unbelievers and there works will be judged in regards to receiving rewards and loss of rewards. (1 Corinthians 3:11-15)


This judgment is for the dead, whose names are not found written in the book of life. Notice in verse 13 that death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them. (Revelation 20:12-15) Judged according to their works and some will receive greater condemnation, like these scribes and Pharisees here for example. (Matthew 23:14)


In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe in/have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe in/on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Big difference. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.


Whether on our own or in cooperation with God, we are not saved by works in general. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9) The saved by "these" works and just not "those" works bogus argument is a desperate attempt to get around the truth. If you were standing at the gates of heaven right now and Jesus Christ asked you why He should let you into heaven, what would be your answer? Your answer to that question will demonstrate what you have truly placed your faith in/what you are truly trusting in for salvation.

Well placed and understood post including your previous one.

 

[robert derrick]

I would think posting, "Whatever", first qualifies as dribble posting because one is unable to accept correction.

Whereas posting, "No.", in response simply recognized that fault as well as simply and directly addresses the falsity that persists.

Whatever is in response to failed arguments turning into petty accusations. It means your personal opinion about others is meaningless and worthless.

For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

 

[robert derrick]

And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

We have no part in forgiving ourselves from past sins, which only the Advate Jesus can do.

God then gives us part in saving ourselves, by doing His word. He does not save us without our knowledge and will.

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

We cannot be saved without confessing the Lord Jesus with our mouth, which is our part we must do once His word is sown in our hearts by hearing of faith.

And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall.

Not only do we make sure we are saved, by confessing the Lord Jesus, we also can make sure we are saved in the end, by adding to our faith and doing those things that make sure we never fall.

Faith alone with no part by man salvation is false. The man Christ Jesus is a man, and man has part in his own salvation by God.

God is creating sons, not angels. We have no part in being created and coming into the world, but we certainly are given our part with the grace of God in being created and born again to become sons of God.

Faith is sown in the heart by hearing, but we become sons of God by doing the word and obeying the faith.

By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name.

But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Faith alone is for self-justified hearers only, who have no part in their own salvation, nor body of Christ, nor the first resurrection of the dead.

That is why our salvation is renewable, and the Lord needs not die on the cross twice: Once is sufficient for the Lamb to pay the price of forgiveness of past sins. We do our part to be saved, and if we sin, we can be forgiven by confessing our sin, and do our part to be saved by confessing the Lord Jesus.

It is the mercy of God that we are given our part to save ourselves; otherwise, once we sin at all, then there is no more forgiveness by the one sacrifice of Jesus Christ. If we have no part in being cleansed, then once washed by the Lord, there is no more hope of being washed if we sin.