Revelation 12 walk through

[Davy]

Davy, none of the translations you posted say "MID-point".

I'm not going to allow you to go into that play-on-words stupidity with me again.

I showed enough Bible versions that point out that the AOD will happen at the HALF-WAY point of that 7 years. Now if you don't have enough common sense to know that HALF of 7 years equals 3.5 years (i.e., 1260 days), then I feel sorry for you.

 

[Douggg]

I'm not going to allow you to go into that play-on-words stupidity with me again.

I showed enough Bible versions that point out that the AOD will happen at the HALF-WAY point of that 7 years. Now if you don't have enough common sense to know that HALF of 7 years equals 3.5 years (i.e., 1260 days), then I feel sorry for you.

Davy, none of the bible translation have the word "point" in Daniel 9:27. You are coming up with "point" in your mind.

The abomination of desolation statue image setup that begins the great tribulation will be destroyed on the day that Jesus returns - not 30 nor 45 days later.

 

[TribulationSigns]

All one has to do is simply read your post #3 where you SPECULATE that half of the Daniel 9 symbolic "one week" is about your convoluted Jewish history of Israel...

“Convoluted Jewish history of Israel?!” LOL. You have no clue what I am actually teaching.
Listen carefully: the woman is not “Old Testament national Israel” herself, and she is not “the New Testament Church” herself either. The woman is COVENANT Israel—the congregation of all the elect from the Old Testament and the New Testament together. She is the Bride of Christ. Get it?

In the Old Testament, the Jewish nation merely represented this woman from Abel to the Cross. But when Christ came, He took the kingdom representation away from national Israel and gave it to the New Testament Church, with whom He confirmed the covenant in His blood and empowered by the Holy Spirit to bring the gospel to the nations. That is the covenant week—and it belongs to the Church, not national Israel.

When Scripture says that “blindness in part” happened to Israel, it means only this: some Jews will be grafted into covenant Israel alongside Gentile believers until the fullness of the Church is complete. And then “all Israel shall be saved”—meaning the covenant people of God. There is no separate salvation plan for national Israel. None. Period.

As for Daniel 9:27, the final week is not a literal seven-year countdown. It is divided into 1,260, 1,290, and 1,335 days as spiritual signposts spanning from the Cross—when Christ confirmed the covenant—to the Consummation at His Second Coming and the Last Trump. These are not literal dates you can scribble on a calendar. They mark the flow of God’s redemptive plan.

• The 1,260 days = the testimony of the New Testament Church preaching salvation.
• The Two Witnesses, like Christ, are killed so their testimony is silenced for a symbolic 3½ days.
• The 1,290 days = the abomination of desolation in God’s congregation.
• Blessed are those who endure to the 1,335th day, for they shall see Christ return.

Now here’s the rebuke: stop trying to play calendar games or chart with God’s timeline. We do not know when the witnesses will finish their testimony. We do not know when the Beast rises from the pit. We do not know when the last Elect is sealed. We do not know the exact hour of Christ’s return. These are times appointed by God alone.

What we are given are the signs—clear enough for the faithful to discern the nearness of Christ’s coming. That is all. Nothing more.

You said:

"After Christ ascends to Heaven to the throne of God, the Dragon (Satan) wants to destroy this woman, but she is given two wings of a great eagle (Symbolizing the care and protection of the Lord God) and she flies into the wilderness where she has a place prepared for her where God "feeds" and nourishes her there for 1260 days. The 1260 days is symbolical time. It equates to time, times, and a half (see verse 14). That is to say, the entire time that this congregation of the Lord has a testimony to give in the wilderness of the world. She is nourished from the face of the serpent. In other words, Satan cannot come near to harm her. He has been bound or restrained by the cross of Christ that He cannot harm the woman (the children of God) so they can go forth with the true gospel that many are saved. The Lord provides bread for the Church for the time that she is fed in the wilderness, which is symbolically typed as 1260 days. It's not literally 1260 days (3 1/2 years) but spiritually it is.​

​

This is intimately identified with when The Lord God freed Israel from bondage of Egypt and they had to spend time in the wilderness before they entered into their promised land. This woman, now representing the Church in the New Testament after the Cross, must spend time in the wilderness (Commemorated by the week of the Feast of Tabernacles) after she is freed from bondage to sin before she can enter the promised land. But God will protect her and keep her from harm. That is what the language of giving her two wings of an Eagle symbolizes. God did the same thing for Old Testament Israel as He brought them out of Egypt."​

​

You treat the 1st half of the Daniel 9:27 "one week" as a symbolic time, which it will not be.

Wrong. The WHOLE final week of Daniel is a symbolic time. Yes it already has. End of discussion.

I get your association with old Israel and the Old Testament wilderness connection

And you're still in denial?

, but the Rev.12:6 verse is about the the first half of the Daniel 9:27 final "one week" that is yet to be fulfilled at the END of this world, thus it does... represent a LITERAL PERIOD, and is not just symbolic only.

Rev 12:6
(6) And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Rev 11:3
(3) And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.


The woman and the Two Witnesses—representing the Elect Church after the Cross—fled into the world from Jerusalem. But do not twist this into the false notion that Daniel’s final week has been “postponed” until a few years before the end of the world. That is a classic premillennial error.

The 1,260 days do not represent a literal countdown. They symbolize the period beginning at Pentecost, when the Church was sent into the world to preach the gospel, and lasting until the last elect is sealed (Revelation 7:1–4). This is the covenant span of the Church age, not some seven-year “gap theory” invented by man.

So no, it is not a literal 1,260 days you can mark on a calendar. It is the appointed gospel age of the Church, secured and governed by Christ Himself.

One should easily know that just by looking at the fulfillment of the events prophesied for the previous 69 weeks. Therein lay your error, you relying more on symbology than understanding that God's Word often uses symbology to represent a LITERAL EVENT. That's something that comes from following men's traditions, especially man's false Amill tradition.

The error, or the lack of understanding, belongs to YOU!

1.) The 70 weeks are about the Messiah's work with his People, "COVENANT ISRAEL", not national Israel's calendar.
2.) Everything in verse 24 was fulfilled in CHrist's First Coming (Cross), and His Church age, not in a future seven-year tribulation.
3.) The Covenant was confirmed at the Cross. This was fulfilled when Christ's death tore the temple veil (Mattehw 27:51; Hebrews 9:27; Hebrews 10:14-18).
4.) That means the FINAL WEEK started at the Cross with Christ confirmed the Covenant in his Blood (Luke 22:20).

It will not be confirmed by your "evil prince" or future antichrist with peace treaty which is absurd and man-made theories.

Furthermore, Apostle Peter showed in 1 Peter 5:8 that Satan is NOT YET bound today, for Peter said Satan as a roaring lion still walks about seeking whom he may devour (i.e., deceive).

LOL!! Wrong! Christ did bind Satan FOR THE SAKE OF THE ELECT, so that the church could build. Not for the sake of rest of the world where Satan is STILL the prince of the air and works through these people who tries to stop the church from growing. Selah!

Satan was NOT bound at the time of Jesus' crucifixion, that lie is only a development from men's false Amill doctrine in order to get the deceived to believe Revelation 20:1-3 already was history prior... to Christ's 2nd coming.

That is your problem. You have not been enlightened to know this truth. Praying for you, Davy!

The Rev.20:1-3 Scripture about Satan being 'bound' in his pit prison is for the day of Christ's future return, and not before.

Sigh!!! Can't you read Matthew 12:22-37?? You need to ask God for wisdom!

 

[TribulationSigns]

Post your timeline chart that has the great tribulation on it.

You cannot pinpoint the Great Tribulation to some exact day or hour. Stop pretending you can. The Elect have endured tribulation ever since the Cross, and when Satan is finally loosed, it will only intensify. It is the SAME tribulation, only greater! But here’s the truth you keep ignoring: we do not know when Satan is loosed, therefore we cannot know when the Great Tribulation begins.

Selah!

 

[Douggg]

• The 1,260 days = the testimony of the New Testament Church preaching salvation.
• The Two Witnesses, like Christ, are killed so their testimony is silenced for a symbolic 3½ days.
• The 1,290 days = the abomination of desolation in God’s congregation.
• Blessed are those who endure to the 1,335th day, for they shall see Christ return.

Now here’s the rebuke: stop trying to play calendar games or chart with God’s timeline.

Calendar games - such as saying the 1260 days of Revelation 11:3 and Revelation 12:6 are "symbolic" ?

I think what you meant to say was....
"Now here’s the rebuke: stop trying to play calendar games or chart with @TribulationSigns's symbolic timeline."
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The time frames are not symbolic. They are literal and fit within the 7 years.

 

[Douggg]

You cannot pinpoint the Great Tribulation to some exact day or hour. Stop pretending you can. The Elect have endured tribulation ever since the Cross, and when Satan is finally loosed, it will only intensify. It is the SAME tribulation, only greater! But here’s the truth you keep ignoring: we do not know when Satan is loosed, therefore we cannot know when the Great Tribulation begins.

Selah!

Post your "symbolic" time line for the 15 time of the end time frames given in the bible.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Post your "symbolic" time line for the 15 time of the end time frames given in the bible.

For the fifteenth time, NO!

 

[TribulationSigns]

Calendar games - such as saying the 1260 days of Revelation 11:3 and Revelation 12:6 are "symbolic" ?

Indeed, the 1,260 days should be understood symbolically, commencing with Christ’s empowerment of His Church to proclaim the Gospel.”

Rev 11:3
(3) And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

This confirmed what Luke (not Peter) wrote:

Act 1:8
(8) But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

It started at Pentecost! No question about it.

However, when will 1,260 symbolic days end?

Rev 11:7
(7) And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Douggg, tell me—what day and year did the beast crawl out of the bottomless pit? Oh wait, you don’t know. Why? Because the beast cannot even emerge until after Christ seals all of His people FIRST (Revelation 7:1–4)! Do you happen to know when the very last Elect whom God plans to seal has been sealed? Of course not. We ALL will never know.

The only clue we’re given about how near Christ’s return is lies in the signs of the sun, moon, and stars, which point to the judgment of the whore. And no, the signs in the sun, moon, and stars are not your literal, Hollywood-style disaster scenario. Sorry to disappoint.

So put the calendar away, silly. You won’t crack God’s timeline with guesswork and literal speculations.

 

[Douggg]

So put the calendar away, silly. You won’t crack God’s timeline with guesswork and literal speculations.

You are confusing calendars with timelines. Calendars show the particular months, such as June, July, August... and the day of each of those months.

My timeline charts does not show any particular calendar month, day, nor year - such as, August 31, 2025.

Now post your timeline of the 15 time of the end time frames given in bible. Don't try to tell me all 15 are symbolic.

Douggg, tell me—what day and year did the beast crawl out of the bottomless pit? Oh wait, you don’t know. Why?

First of all, I don't project calendar dates. Secondly, even on a timeline, it is not known precisely when the spirit of the beast ascends out of the bottomless pit.

 

[TribulationSigns]

You are confusing calendars with timelines. Calendars show the particular months, such as June, July, August... and the day of each of those months.

My timeline charts does not show any particular calendar month, day, nor year - such as, August 31, 2025.

Your so-called timelines are nothing but months, days, and hours you imagine to be literal. That’s not exegesis—that’s you inventing a man-made "calendar" by sneaking in a 2,000-year fantasy gap after 69 weeks of Daniel and then tacking on 7 years at the end without dates. You can try to disguise it all you want, but it’s still false, still unbiblical, and still wrong.

Now post your timeline of the 15 time of the end time frames given in bible. Don't try to tell me all 15 are symbolic.

Oh, sure—because Revelation clearly handed us a literal stopwatch for the “15 end-time frames,” right? Reality check: the book of Revelation is drenched in symbolism. Those “time frames” are not literal months days, hours, or years —they are symbolic representations of God’s unfolding plan. Trying to make them literal is like reading a painting with a ruler and expecting to measure the colors.

Secondly, even on a timeline, it is known precisely when the spirit of the beast ascends out of the bottomless pit.

LOL!!!!!!!! Show me the Scripture that exactly says this. When did Satan actually bind according to Scripture? I bet that you got the 1,000 year period in the wrong place!

 

[Douggg]

However, when will 1,260 symbolic days end?

Rev 11:7
(7) And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

There is no such thing as 1260 symbolic days. Also, after the two witnesses are killed, there will be the great tribulation saints witnessing about Jesus.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

 

[Douggg]

LOL!!!!!!!! Show me the Scripture that exactly says this. When did Satan actually bind according to Scripture? I bet that you got the 1,000 year period in the wrong place!

You quoted me. And when I read the quote, I realized I made a typo - leaving out the "not". So I went back and edited my post to read...

"Secondly, even on a timeline, it is not known precisely when the spirit of the beast ascends out of the bottomless pit."

 

[TribulationSigns]

There is no such thing as 1260 symbolic days.

Yep! It is a faithful witness of the Church from Pentecost to the Last Elect when their testimony for the purpose of salvation is finished. Selah!

Also, after the two witnesses are killed, there will be the great tribulation saints witnessing about Jesus.

Yes, but tell me—what exactly do you think the Great Tribulation will look like for the saints? Hmmm? It certainly isn’t for some imaginary group of “future tribulation saints” who supposedly missed the rapture, as you claim. The living and remaining saints will still be here until the Second Coming, when the rapture actually takes place. Sorry, but your theory

 

[Douggg]

Your so-called timelines are nothing but months, days, and hours you imagine to be literal. That’s not exegesis—that’s you inventing a man-made "calendar" by sneaking in a 2,000-year fantasy gap after 69 weeks of Daniel and then tacking on 7 years at the end without dates. You can try to disguise it all you want, but it’s still false, still unbiblical, and still wrong

You are making a false statement. I don't show calendar dates on my timelines. For example....where do you see a calendar year on this chart, such as 2025, 2026, 2027, 2028, etc. ? Where do you see a calendar month on this chart, such as January, February, March, etc. ?

 

[TribulationSigns]

"Secondly, even on a timeline, it is not known precisely when the spirit of the beast ascends out of the bottomless pit."

But the Bible did. Find the verses that tell you.

 

[TribulationSigns]

You are making a false statement. I don't show calendar dates on my timelines.

Read what I say again, moron.

"Your so-called timelines are nothing but months, days, and hours you imagine to be literal. "

I am clearly addressing your attempt to take 1,260 days, 1,290 days, 1,335 days, 42 months, etc. as literal “timeframes” that you insist will play out without actual date settings.

No—it will NOT be some neat little 7-year period with your so-called 15 literal frames squeezed into it.

If you want to see it biblically, try this: stretch your “7 years” so that Day 1 begins at the Cross and Day 1,335 ends at the Second Coming. Then figure out where the 1,260 days end after Day 1 and where the 1,290 days begin within that span until the 1,335th day. That is what the final covenant week actually looks like.

And let’s be blunt—there is zero Scripture support for your made-up “2,520 days.” You fabricated it.

 

[Douggg]

If you want to see it biblically, try this: stretch your “7 years” so that Day 1 begins at the Cross and Day 1,335 ends at the Second Coming. Then figure out where the 1,260 days end after Day 1 and where the 1,290 days begin within that span until the 1,335th day. That is what the final covenant week actually looks like.

Show a timeline chart having that construction.

No—it will NOT be some neat little 7-year period with your so-called 15 literal frames squeezed into it.

You have yet to produce a timeline chart that has the 15 time of the end time frames featured as to their correct fit.

 

[Bladerunner]

My response to Douggg's erroneous interpreation will be lengthy, so it will be divided into several posts due to the size of the posts.

(Part One - Response to Revelation 12:1-4)

First, in verse one, the woman in Revelation 12 symbolizes the CONGREGATION OF GOD, COVENANT ISRAEL, which nation Israel represented in the Old Testament before the Cross and the Church represented in the New Testament after the Cross. The symbolism in Revelation 12 is of what took place with her both before Messiah came, and then after His ascension to the Throne after the Cross. The heaven here symbolizes the Kingdom of Heaven where the congregation dwells. Selah!

The verse two was talking about the Covenant Israel gave birth to our Lord and Saviour. He is the "SEED" of this woman who was prophesied to come from the very beginning in Genesis 3:15, was the prophecy established! Christ is that Seed of the woman (not nation Israel, but COVENANT ISRAEL), prophesied from teh beginning to bruise the head of Satan that Old Serpent. So Christ had to come forth from teh congregation Israel, as the seed of this woman! God NEVER said that the woman in the beginning is National Israel. She is covenant Israel that represents ALL ELECT from old and new testament that Christ came to save. Selah! The nation of Israel in the Old Testament as a kingdom representative of God's Kingdom was only a representation of that woman at that time!

When it speaks of her "travailing in birth", it is talking about the pains that the congregation was going through at the time before Christ was born. Israel was in a state of trouble. Her paths were crooked (meaning that they weren't taking the straight and narrow), and the prophets and priests were all gone out of the way. We read that the Kingdom of heaven suffered violence until John the Baptist and the violent take it by force (Matt. 11:12). John prophesied of making the crooked straight and prepared the way for the Lord. This was a time of great Apostasy and trouble in Israel and they pained to be delivered (Jeremiah 4:31). This Child's birth is the Only thing that could deliver her so that her joy could be fulfilled.

Selah!

The Dragon in verse three, meaning a serpent of sight (as if something to gaze or wonder after) is symbolic of Satan (verse 9 confirms this). I am not going into details on the meaning of his heads, horns, and crowns as I have explained before many times. He is adversarial spirit that works through men who attack Christ and His Saints.

Satan's tail in verse four is used as a synonym for false prophets who come to hurt and deceive the Children of God. The tail is the DECEPTION from the head. It is what follows the authority of the head and does it bidding. The symbolism of the tail is those under the authority of Satan who do his bidding. For example, they follow the authorty of the head. For example, take a look at Revelation chapter 9 where it speaks about the bottomless pit being opened and the plague of locusts that had "tails" like scorpions coming forth:

Revelation 9:10

• "And had TAILS like unto SCORPIONS, and there were stings in their tails: and their POWER was to hurt men five months."

This is symbolic language to indicate that they are the emissaries of Satan. The tail to "signify" they are under the Authority of the serpent or scorpion. Satan is symbolized in scripture as the scorpion and the Serpent, and likewise those who are of satan. Again, note later on in that same chapter of Revelation we read of the horsemen who had been bound, and were loosed from Euphrates:

Revelation 9:19

• "for their POWER is in their mouth, and in their TAILS: for their TAILS were like unto SERPENTS, and had heads, and with them they do hurt."

Again, we see the symbolism of power of the tail to hurt people, this time, not as of a scorpion, but as a serpent. You see they "both" represent the people who come under the power and authority of Satan. Both the Scorpion and the Serpent are symbolic of Satan. The servants of Satan come with his power to hurt, and that's the symbolism of the tail of the Dragon casting down the stars (messengers) of the Kingdom of heaven. Satan works out his power to Hurt men through his false prophets under his authority as the head. They are the tail.

In Revelation 12 the illustration is that Satan was attacking and bringing down the Congregation of Israel with great violence and warfare, casting Israel's Messengers down. This is what is recorded in:

Matthew 11:12

• "and from the days of John the Baptist until now, the Kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force".

This is the violence in view. This is the Woman in the Kingdom of Heaven having her stars cast down to the earth. Satan is the accuser of the Brethren. That's what Isaiah 40:1 means when speaking of the Coming of Jesus, saying, "Comfort ye Jerusalem, that her warfare is accomplished, the Voice of him that crieth in the Wilderness!" In other words, when John came, he heralded the news that the warfare, the violence in the Kingdom would be completed, because Christ would bring Peace to Jerusalem. The Violence that the Kingdom suffered because of Satan will come to an end!

(End of Part One, Revelation 12:1-4)

seems to me you are saying that GOD hath said AFTER you tell us what it means. Covenant theology is an erroneous theology.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Show a timeline chart having that construction.

Not happening here.

You have yet to produce a timeline chart that has the 15 time of the end time frames featured as to their correct fit.

No need to create countless charts like you do. If you do not have the spirit of Christ to spiritually discern what the Scripture talks about, you will not receive the love of the truth that my charts may show. Not going to do it here, as I told you before. You are too blind with your carnal premillennial interpreation.

 

[TribulationSigns]

seems to me you are saying that GOD hath said AFTER you tell us what it means. Covenant theology is an erroneous theology.

Romans 16:18

• "For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple."

The theology of the Kingdom is Covenant theology, the Biblical theology. Unfortunately, the theology you are coming with is a variant of what the Apostle Paul called, Jewish Fables.