Revelation 12 walk through

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Davy

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Huh? You just made the point I was making all along. The woman of Revelation 12 is Israel in Christ, a body of the Old and New Testament Saints!

NO, because I showed that the symbolic "woman" of the SPECIFIC Revelation 12:1-2 verses was about OLD TESTAMENT Israel, and NOT the New Testament Church!

The link to the New Testament Church does not come into the Rev.12 subjects until verse 6! and particularly verse 17.

And you KNEW that's how I covered that, but you instead want to twist and fib about that??


Your just another one that TRIES to make folks here think you know more than you actually do. The reality is that you never even knew... about that dream Joseph had per the Genesis 37 Chapter until I pointed it out, which is where those Rev.12:1 symbols of the sun and moon and eleven stars originated!
 

Davy

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Davy, in Daniel 12:11-12, there are 1290 days and 1335 days associated with the AOD.

You haven't gotten past that Daniel 9:27 symbolic "one week" timing yet. So why are you trying... to jump to Dan.12 about the 1290 and 1330 days that happen AFTER... the "one week"?

The latter HALF of the Dan.9:27 "one week" of 1260 days is also covered in Dan.7:25,

Daniel 12:7 even declares after the latter 1260 days the prophecy shall be finished...


Dan 12:7
7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by Him That liveth for ever
that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.
KJV

That "time, times, and an half" is the 1260 day latter half of the symbolic "one week" of Daniel 9:27. WHY IS IT YOU HAVE FAILED TO COVER THAT PERIOD?


And I certainly do not need your FAKE CHART to figure out the timings shown by those Daniel Scriptures.
 

Douggg

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You haven't gotten past that Daniel 9:27 symbolic "one week" timing yet. So why are you trying... to jump to Dan.12 about the 1290 and 1330 days that happen AFTER... the "one week"?
Davy, you had said that the abomination of desolation would be set up on the exact midpoint of the 7 years of Daniel 9:27.

I pointed out that the problem with that position is it would mean that the abomination of desolation statue image would still be standing on the temple mount 30 to 45 days after Jesus has returned. Something that Jesus would not allow.

So your exact midpoint position is incorrect.

That "time, times, and an half" is the 1260 day latter half of the symbolic "one week" of Daniel 9:27. WHY IS IT YOU HAVE FAILED TO COVER THAT PERIOD?

I show the time, times, and half time of Daniel 12:7 as being the second half of the 7 years on my chart. The time, times, half time end the day of Jesus's return. As do the 1335 days of Daniel 12:12 end the day of Jesus's return.

time frames 5a.jpg
 

Douggg

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And I certainly do not need your FAKE CHART to figure out the timings shown by those Daniel Scriptures.
Davy, if you don't like my charts, then you make and present a timeline chart of the 7 years, the 1260 days, and the 1290 days and 1335 days of Daniel 12:11-12.
 
D

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Davy, you had said that the abomination of desolation would be set up on the exact midpoint of the 7 years of Daniel 9:27.

I pointed out that the problem with that position is it would mean that the abomination of desolation statue image would still be standing on the temple mount 30 to 45 days after Jesus has returned. Something that Jesus would not allow.

So your exact midpoint position is incorrect.



I show the time, times, and half time of Daniel 12:7 as being the second half of the 7 years on my chart. The time, times, half time end the day of Jesus's return. As do the 1335 days of Daniel 12:12 end the day of Jesus's return.

View attachment 69776
ah yes the locust .who then are the locust ?
 

Davy

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Davy, you had said that the abomination of desolation would be set up on the exact midpoint of the 7 years of Daniel 9:27.

Not ME saying that, the actual DANIEL 9:27 verse says that.

Dan 9:27
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many, in one week: and in the half of the week the victim and the sacrifice shall fall: and there shall be in the temple the abomination of desolation: and the desolation shall continue even to the consummation, and to the end.
Douay-Rheims



For those who CAN do basic math...

The symbolic "one week" of Dan.9:27 = 7 years. (the Hebrew just uses the idea of a 'seven').
The HALF way point or middle of 7 is 3.5 (3.5 X 2 = 7).
Using the 'week' symbol for the 7, each 3.5 period = 1260 days.
The total period of "one week" represents 2520 days (1260 X 2).

The HALF way point of the 2520 days is 1260 days.
Per the Dan.9:27 verse, the "abomination of desolation" is to be placed inside the temple after 1260 days into the symbolic "one week" of 7 years.

EASY PEASY.
 

Davy

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Davy, if you don't like my charts, then you make and present a timeline chart of the 7 years, the 1260 days, and the 1290 days and 1335 days of Daniel 12:11-12.

Nor do I follow the dictates of those like you that can't even stay with the Bible Scripture 'as written'.
 

Douggg

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ah yes the locust .who then are the locust ?
The locust in Revelation 9:2-11 are some locust like creatures that sting men who do not have the seal of God in their forehead. Their sting will be similar to a scorpion's sting.

Maybe you should begin a new thread on the locust, if one does not already exist.
 

Douggg

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Nor do I follow the dictates of those like you that can't even stay with the Bible Scripture 'as written'.
Davy, it is that particular translation that you are using that is leading you astray. The 1290 days and 1335 days of Daniel 12:11-12 are longer than 1260 days, right ?

If you start working on making timeline charts, it will help you organize events into their proper order. Are you reluctant because you don't want to take the time and effort to learn how to use a graphics program like Corel Paintshop Pro ? If so, let me say, actually, it can be fun to learn and use.
 

Douggg

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The symbolic "one week" of Dan.9:27 = 7 years. (the Hebrew just uses the idea of a 'seven').
The HALF way point or middle of 7 is 3.5 (3.5 X 2 = 7).
Using the 'week' symbol for the 7, each 3.5 period = 1260 days.
The total period of "one week" represents 2520 days (1260 X 2).

The HALF way point of the 2520 days is 1260 days.
Correct. But the 1290 days and the 1335 days of Daniel 12:11-12 have to fit within the 7 years.

Per the Dan.9:27 verse, the "abomination of desolation" is to be placed inside the temple after 1260 days into the symbolic "one week" of 7 years.
There's the problem. The translation that you are using is misleading you.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. kjv
 

TribulationSigns

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NO, because I showed that the symbolic "woman" of the SPECIFIC Revelation 12:1-2 verses was about OLD TESTAMENT Israel, and NOT the New Testament Church!

Nope. You’ve completely misunderstood the text.

The woman of Revelation 12:1 is Covenant Israel—the Bride of all the Elect gathered from both the Old and the New Testaments.

Revelation 12:2–5 makes it unmistakable: the Old Testament congregation was that Woman, groaning until the promised Messiah came forth. Christ’s birth, baptism, ministry, and sacrificial death all occurred within that Old Testament covenant framework. And at the Cross, the kingdom representation was taken from unbelieving Israel—just as Christ declared in Matthew 21:43: “The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.”

Then, after Christ ascended to His throne in heaven, Revelation 12:6 shows the Woman now representing the New Testament Church, fleeing into the wilderness of the world—where she is preserved by God to proclaim the gospel among the nations. This is the body to whom the kingdom representation was handed!

Revelation 12:7–11 further describes the spiritual war—Christ and His true believers against the Pharisees, scribes, and all the Jews who rejected Him within the Old Covenant congregation. They were cast out—no longer the representatives of the kingdom of heaven. Their house was left desolate (Matthew 23:38). With Christ confirming the new covenant (Daniel 9:27; Luke 22:20), the kingdom was established in the true rebuilt temple: the New Testament Church, the temple made without hands. Salvation belongs to those who overcome “by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony” (Revelation 12:11).

So stop twisting the Scriptures. The Covenant Israel of Revelation 12:1 never changes—it is one people of God across both covenants. What changed was the kingdom representation: from Old Testament Israel to the New Testament Church. To cling to a carnal, nationalistic Israel is to deny Christ’s finished work and to blind yourself to the true bride, the true Israel of God (Galatians 6:16).

The link to the New Testament Church does not come into the Rev.12 subjects until verse 6! and particularly verse 17.

Congratulations.

The New Testament Church started at Revelation 12:6 as I explained in red bold above. It is all about the congregation representative. Not the woman herself.

And you KNEW that's how I covered that, but you instead want to twist and fib about that??

Because you got the Woman of Revelation 12:1 wrong. She did not represent solely Old Testament Israel. She represents all Elect in Christ.

about that dream Joseph had per the Genesis 37 Chapter until I pointed it out, which is where those Rev.12:1 symbols of the sun and moon and eleven stars originated!

Sigh… you’re still missing it. The woman clothed with the sun, the moon under her feet, and crowned with twelve stars (Revelation 12:1) is not some fanciful allegory of national Israel apart from Christ. She "IS" the congregation of Israel—Covenant Israel—the people of God. This begins with Old Testament Israel and continues with the New Testament Israel, the Church of Jesus Christ. There is one Bride, one Body, one Covenant people (Ephesians 2:14–16; Galatians 3:28–29).


Christ Himself affirms this in Matthew 24:29–31:

Mat 24:29-31
(29) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
(30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
(31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

This is not about national Israel. This is the New Testament Congregation going apostate. That’s why the imagery of sun, moon, and stars collapsing is used: it signifies the outward, visible external congregation being judged. The external church—once clothed in glory—will by that time have degenerated into a harlot (Revelation 17), aligning herself with the world. By the end, she is unmasked as Babylon the Great:

Rev 18:2
(2) And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

Do you see it? The sun, moon, and stars are darkened because the visible church has forsaken her light and whored after the world. That’s why judgment comes. For anyone to deny this and keep clinging to some carnal vision of ethnic Israel is to mock the cross of Christ and blind themselves to what Scripture plainly teaches: the kingdom has already been taken from unbelieving Jews who represented the Old Testament congregation at the Cross and given to the Church (Matthew 21:43), three days later, who produce fruits!

The woman of Revelation 12 never ceases to be Covenant Israel—she is the one Bride made up of all Elect from both congregations in CHRIST.
 

Douggg

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Then, after Christ ascended to His throne in heaven, Revelation 12:6 shows the Woman now representing the New Testament Church, fleeing into the wilderness of the world—where she is preserved by God to proclaim the gospel among the nations. This is the body to whom the kingdom representation was handed!
Do you hold to Covenant theology which believes the promises made to Israel in the old testament have been transferred to the church ?
 

TribulationSigns

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The locust in Revelation 9:2-11 are some locust like creatures that sting men who do not have the seal of God in their forehead. Their sting will be similar to a scorpion's sting.

Seriously? You take these locusts to be literal stinging insects? Sigh—no. That’s exactly the mistake people make when they read these passages without a spiritual understanding of what locusts symbolize and how they affect people.

I could write an entire study on this, but here’s a brief, clearer summary:
  1. In Exodus the physical locusts were commanded to eat “every herb of the land” and “all the fruit of the trees,” so that nothing green remained in Egypt. That event happened literally, yet it also carries spiritual meaning.
  2. In Revelation 9 and 11 the Lord is depicting the New Testament church as spiritually Sodom and Egypt. In that symbolic picture God uses locusts as a judgment against the unfaithful within the congregation. The locusts do not harm the elect (those sealed by God); instead they affect those inside the church who lack God’s seal. These are the ones who are deceived.
So what are the “locusts of the Bottomless Pit”? They represent false prophets and false christs — people empowered by the spirit of Satan to deceive those in the congregation who lack God’s seal. This is exactly what Matthew 24 warned about, and sadly it appears to be happening today with so many false prophets and teachers in the church. Selah.
 
D

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creatures
creatures? no they are not creatures . it actually describes a certain group of people organized to correctly preach the good news of the kingdom . there are peoples of the earth that despise them ,even as Jesus was hated so are they .
nationalism all but did them in, they were in effect dead for three years . its when they were then let out of the abyss of prison did they then begin to torment any that would appose the work they had taken on .