Revival is the Baptism By fire

[Eternally Grateful]

Baptize is not even a native english word. It is a transliteration of the greek word baptizo. Which means to plunge. To immerse, to Dye (A baptized in roman culture was.a man who dyed garments. A baptism was the act of covering garments with a dye)

Baptism in fire means exactly that. To immerse or plunge in fire.

The 3rd century church pagan is Ed the word and made it a symbolic term not a literal act.

Its sad.

 

[theefaith]

I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: (Matthew 3:11)

And the sight of the glory of the LORD was like devouring fire on the top of the mount in the eyes of the children of Israel. (Exodus 24:17)

All throughout scripture God is Pictured as a devouring fire, a pillar of fire etc. The Picture of the Baptism by fire is the presence of the LORD coming upon the church as is so frequently described in those who have experienced revival.

Revival is a fundamentalist construct not found in scripture

the fire you refer to is the love of God

Rom 5:5

 

[theefaith]

No Sunday school
Prayer meeting
Or 1st Sunday communion in the Bible either

 

[David H.]

Revival is a fundamentalist construct not found in scripture

the fire you refer to is the love of God

Rom 5:5

The Catholic church is not worth reviving as it is so corrupt. That is why they do not know what Revival is.

 

[theefaith]

The Catholic church is not worth reviving as it is so corrupt. That is why they do not know what Revival is.

Scripture???

Matt 16:18-19

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

SHALL NOT PREVAIL!

 

[David H.]

No Sunday school
Prayer meeting
Or 1st Sunday communion in the Bible either

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. (2 Corinthians 3:17)

And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: (Galatians 2:4)

 

[David H.]

Scripture???

Matt 16:18-19

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

The "rock in this passage is not Peter, But Peter's confession of who Christ is. The Church is Built On Jesus Christ not a man

 

[Curtis]

The "rock in this passage is not Peter, But Peter's confession of who Christ is. The Church is Built On Jesus Christ not a man

Jesus indeed did not tell Peter that the church would be built on him:


Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.


Jesus spoke of two different rocks: Peter is Petros in the Greek - small rock - and the rock the church is built on is Petra - bedrock.


In the Greek Jesus said: thou art PETROS, and upon this PETRA I will build my church.


The language God chose for the New Testament to be written in, explicitly states there are two different rocks there.


Also, the Greek word for church , kuriakos ,is not found in Matthew 16:18 - the word used is ekklesia, meaning a congregation of people assembled together - it does not mean a church organization of Pope, cardinals, bishops, and priests, as the Roman sect wants us to believe.


And in fact the church of Christ isn’t built on any single individual apostle or prophet:


Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;


Built on the foundation of apostles, PLURAL, and prophets, PLURAL - not on Peter alone.


In Matthew 16:19 Jesus gives Peter keys (authority) and the power to bind and loose - yet 2 chapters later when He met the other apostles, Jesus gives the same power of binding and loosing to them, too, in Matthew 18:18 - so Peter has no special authority beyond what the 12 shared.


Peter was not a Bishop, or Pope in the Roman church - ever.


Linus was the first bishop/pope of the Roman church, according to the Orthodox Church.

 

[Stumpmaster]

Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. (2 Corinthians 3:17)

And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: (Galatians 2:4)

Any comments about the following:

Quote: Toronto Blessing - Wikipedia

The Toronto Blessing, a term coined by British newspapers, refers to the Christian revival and associated phenomena that began in January 1994 at the Toronto Airport Vineyard church (TAV), which was renamed in 1996 to Toronto Airport Christian Fellowship (TACF) and then later in 2010 renamed to Catch the Fire Toronto. It is categorized as a neo-charismatic evangelical Christian church and is located in Toronto, Ontario, Canada.[1][need quotation to verify] The revival impacted charismatic Christian culture through an increase in popularity and international reach and intensified criticism and denominational disputes. Criticism primarily centered around disagreements about charismatic doctrine, the latter rain movement, and whether or not the physical manifestations people experienced were in line with biblical doctrine or were actually heretical practices.

The Toronto Blessing is also reported[by whom?] as having influenced the Brownsville Revival (1995 – c. 2000) and the Lakeland Revival (2008) that occurred later in Florida, and which included similar styles of worship, ministry and reputed supernatural manifestations.

 

[David H.]

Any comments about the following:

Any true revival involves Brokenness and tears and repentance as the dross is burned off of the believer in the presence of a Holy God.

Was this the case with the Toronto Blessing, or the Brownsville revival or the Lakeland revival? I have not studied them enough to make that judgment. I do know that Physical manifestations such as uncontrolled laughter, barking like dogs etc, are not what revival looks like. These manifestations likely come from demonic spirits and not the Holy Spirit. That being said there are physical manifestations in true revival. But they are of the Godly sorrow kinds of manifestations that produce tears and lamentations coupled with the Joy of the LORD.

 

[theefaith]

The "rock in this passage is not Peter, But Peter's confession of who Christ is. The Church is Built On Jesus Christ not a man

Why is the name of peter even mentioned?

Why does Christ give him the keys of jurisdictional authority that the prime minister holds under the king to administer the kingdom?

How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?

How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)

How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?


also have to explain
Isa 22:21-22 jurisdictional authority of the keys and called father
Matt 28:19 go teach baptize
Jn 20:21-23 same mission power and authority as christ
Eph 2:20 church built on the apostles
Matt 23 successors of Moses have the jurisdictional authority and the power to bind and loose which Christ says must be obeyed, then taken from them matt 21:43 given to Peter and the apostles and their successors

 

[David H.]

Why is the name of peter even mentioned?

Read comment number 28 by @Curtis.....

 

[bbyrd009]

Why is the name of peter even mentioned?

we arent in “unorthodox forum” anymore, dorothy?

 

[Curtis]

Any true revival involves Brokenness and tears and repentance as the dross is burned off of the believer in the presence of a Holy God.

Was this the case with the Toronto Blessing, or the Brownsville revival or the Lakeland revival? I have not studied them enough to make that judgment. I do know that Physical manifestations such as uncontrolled laughter, barking like dogs etc, are not what revival looks like. These manifestations likely come from demonic spirits and not the Holy Spirit. That being said there are physical manifestations in true revival. But they are of the Godly sorrow kinds of manifestations that produce tears and lamentations coupled with the Joy of the LORD.

Just like the possessed woman who follow Paul around, demons show up everywhere including in revivals, apparently the pastors running the revival Didn’t realize that they should have commanded anyone barking like a dog to be quiet in the name of Jesus. Such a manifestations do not disapprove that there is a genuine revival there, in fact they probably prove that there was a move of God going on and the devil wanted to interrupt.

 

[Curtis]

Any comments about the following:

Quote: Toronto Blessing - Wikipedia

The Toronto Blessing, a term coined by British newspapers, refers to the Christian revival and associated phenomena that began in January 1994 at the Toronto Airport Vineyard church (TAV), which was renamed in 1996 to Toronto Airport Christian Fellowship (TACF) and then later in 2010 renamed to Catch the Fire Toronto. It is categorized as a neo-charismatic evangelical Christian church and is located in Toronto, Ontario, Canada.[1][need quotation to verify] The revival impacted charismatic Christian culture through an increase in popularity and international reach and intensified criticism and denominational disputes. Criticism primarily centered around disagreements about charismatic doctrine, the latter rain movement, and whether or not the physical manifestations people experienced were in line with biblical doctrine or were actually heretical practices.

The Toronto Blessing is also reported[by whom?] as having influenced the Brownsville Revival (1995 – c. 2000) and the Lakeland Revival (2008) that occurred later in Florida, and which included similar styles of worship, ministry and reputed supernatural manifestations.

Since Galatians is all about not being under the law of Moses and having to circumcise, the Galatians two passage is talking about Jewish Christians who were insisting that they and all Christians need to keep the law of Moses and be circumcised, so the Context of the passage is about that and not about demonic spirits manifesting in a revival today, and has nothing at all to do with demonic or spiritual manifestations, but about those wanting to put Christians under the law.

 

[Curtis]

Why is the name of peter even mentioned?

Why does Christ give him the keys of jurisdictional authority that the prime minister holds under the king to administer the kingdom?

How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?

How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)

How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?


also have to explain
Isa 22:21-22 jurisdictional authority of the keys and called father
Matt 28:19 go teach baptize
Jn 20:21-23 same mission power and authority as christ
Eph 2:20 church built on the apostles
Matt 23 successors of Moses have the jurisdictional authority and the power to bind and loose which Christ says must be obeyed, then taken from them matt 21:43 given to Peter and the apostles and their successors

The only church government authorized in the Bible is putting elders in charge of their own local congregations, and Jesus is the head of the church, not some pope claiming authority he doesn’t have.

 

[theefaith]

Read comment number 28 by @Curtis.....

only Peter receives the keys of jurisdictional authority Isa 22:21-22
And all my other questions

 

[theefaith]

The only church government authorized in the Bible is putting elders in charge of their own local congregations, and Jesus is the head of the church, not some pope claiming authority he doesn’t have.

Jesus indeed did not tell Peter that the church would be built on him:


Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.


Jesus spoke of two different rocks: Peter is Petros in the Greek - small rock - and the rock the church is built on is Petra - bedrock.


In the Greek Jesus said: thou art PETROS, and upon this PETRA I will build my church.


The language God chose for the New Testament to be written in, explicitly states there are two different rocks there.


Also, the Greek word for church , kuriakos ,is not found in Matthew 16:18 - the word used is ekklesia, meaning a congregation of people assembled together - it does not mean a church organization of Pope, cardinals, bishops, and priests, as the Roman sect wants us to believe.


And in fact the church of Christ isn’t built on any single individual apostle or prophet:


Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;


Built on the foundation of apostles, PLURAL, and prophets, PLURAL - not on Peter alone.


In Matthew 16:19 Jesus gives Peter keys (authority) and the power to bind and loose - yet 2 chapters later when He met the other apostles, Jesus gives the same power of binding and loosing to them, too, in Matthew 18:18 - so Peter has no special authority beyond what the 12 shared.


Peter was not a Bishop, or Pope in the Roman church - ever.


Linus was the first bishop/pope of the Roman church, according to the Orthodox Church.

Why is the name of peter even mentioned?

Why does Christ give him the keys of jurisdictional authority that the prime minister holds under the king to administer the kingdom?

How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?

How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)

How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?


also have to explain
Isa 22:21-22 jurisdictional authority of the keys and called father
Matt 28:19 go teach baptize
Jn 20:21-23 same mission power and authority as christ
Eph 2:20 church built on the apostles
Matt 23 successors of Moses have the jurisdictional authority and the power to bind and loose which Christ says must be obeyed, then taken from them matt 21:43 given to Peter and the apostles and their successors

 

[theefaith]

The only church government authorized in the Bible is putting elders in charge of their own local congregations, and Jesus is the head of the church, not some pope claiming authority he doesn’t have.

Peter is already administering the kingdom

Already acting in the person of Christ even acting as mediator

It is Jesus Christ who identifies peter with himself!

Matt 17:24 And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?

25 He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?

26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.

27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.

It is Jesus Christ who identifies peter with himself!

Jesus Christ gives the keys of the kingdom to peter matt 16:18-19 making him prime minister applying Isa 22:21-22 to peter

It’s Christ who does this

Why is the name of peter even mentioned?

Why does Christ give him the keys of jurisdictional authority that the prime minister holds under the king to administer the kingdom?

How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?

How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)

How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?


also have to explain
Isa 22:21-22 jurisdictional authority of the keys and called father
Matt 28:19 go teach baptize
Jn 20:21-23 same mission power and authority as christ
Eph 2:20 church built on the apostles
Matt 23 successors of Moses have the jurisdictional authority and the power to bind and loose which Christ says must be obeyed, then taken from them matt 21:43 given to Peter and the apostles and their successors


Applies only to Peter as “prince of the apostles”!

Peter and his successors are the Leader of the apostles and the head of the church until Christ returns!

Matt 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter,

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Lk 22:32 Christ prayed for Peter!

Peter is head of the church!

Isa 22:21-22 21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.

22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

Matt 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Matt 23:1 power and authority of the kingdom known in the keys and binding and loosing, Matt 21:43 kingdom shall be taken from you given to another who will bear fruit. (Peter the apostles in holy church Lk 22:29)

Matt 17:27 Jesus identified peter with himself.

Matt 16:17 Peter alone received revelation from the Father

Lk 22:32 Peter to strengthen his brethren (the apostles)

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep

Peter exercises his authority over the apostles and the church!

Acts 1:15
Acts 3:4
Acts 5:5 5:10
Acts 15:7

ONLY TO PETER CHRIST SAID: THOU ART PETER AND UPON THIS ROCK I WILL BUILT MY CHURCH, AND THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT!Matt 16:18

Peter is the prime minister, father, and head of the church on earth until Christ returns Isa 22:21-22

Seat of peter Until Christ returns

Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.



How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?

How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)

How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?


also have to explain
Isa 22:21-22
Matt 16:18
Matt 28:19
Jn 20:21-23
Eph 2:20
Matt 23

Jn 21:17
Peter commanded to Feed my sheep:

2 Tim 3: 8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

 

[theefaith]

The only church government authorized in the Bible is putting elders in charge of their own local congregations, and Jesus is the head of the church, not some pope claiming authority he doesn’t have.

ONLY TO PETER CHRIST SAID: THOU ART PETER AND UPON THIS ROCK I WILL BUILT MY CHURCH, AND THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT!Matt 16:18

Peter is the prime minister, father, and head of the church on earth until Christ returns Isa 22:21-22

Seat of peter remains Until Christ returns
Matt 28:19-20

Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

4 important questions:

1) How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?

2) How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)

3) How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?

4) why did Christ give the keys to Peter (and only to Peter) keys of jurisdictional authority. Isa 22:21-22 why even bother to mention Peter if he is not involved?

Explain Jn 20:21 Peter and the apostles and their successors have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! “As the father sent me, so I send you”!

Matt 28:19 christ communicates his authority to peter and the apostles to teach all nations, baptize all disciples!
Jn 20:21-23 apostles even have authority to forgive sins
Eph 2:20 church built on the apostles
Matt 23 the authority and power of the successors of Moses required to be obeyed are taken from them and given to Peter and the apostles

Jn 21:17
Peter commanded to Feed my sheep: