Reviving Biblical Christianity (The Way) Part 2

[MostlyConfused]

Not only is your first paragraph utterly truthful, it is true also even apart from religion, in a family system, in politics, in the whole world - EVEN when someone doesn't know God but they tell the truth. If someone, anywhere, feels the truth makes them look bad, or even less than perfect, they want to ruthlessly destroy the reputation of the person who tells the truth and refuses their false narrative.

I can't even be contrite and say I'm sorry because if I'd been silent, you wouldn't have so graciously said what you did and I would not have obtained the wider view of this that I now have.

 

[Lizbeth]

Ouch. Was this good for you? I think it harms you.
i joined maybe 10 or 12 days ago and found a pretty righteous man (I think his name was shepherds word) and so I wanted to read a bit of him, which led me to you and so I wanted to read some of what you had to say too. So I have seen more than you might know.
Do you think it is possible to shake dust from your feet quietly and without a word (or just a few blandly polite words) if any word would avail nothing good?
I beg you to not be mad at me and maybe I shouldn’t have said anything. I have been enjoying your videos and have wanted often to comment but did not because I saw you are followed by some who want to fight and dispute who would pile in(and also because I think I talk too much and seek conversation for approval for my flesh, which I try to starve whenever it’s in my power to do so.)
Now I feel like I am the one pontificating, (a word I had to look up. Interesting origin.)

Not to mention it harms the one being insulted and maligned.....? And more than that it brings the gospel into disrepute....?

I seem to be seeing that self is the focus here......hyper-vigilant self-policing and don't harm your "self"........is that what the gospel and holiness is all about? Self? Self is a new age pursuit, and I've seen it before and where it leads. Beware of counterfeits.

True holiness doesn't cause us to focus on self, but to forget self and focus on Jesus which leads to freedom from self. Like the beautiful old hymn..."Be Thou my vision". This isn't a self improvement pursuit but a pursuit of following Christ is it not...?....we are HIS workmanship and to HIM be the glory. I don't believe anyone can surrender their will to Him apart from His Spirit either, no more than we could save ourselves in the beginning.....He is both the beginning and end of our faith.

 

[MostlyConfused]

Oh my gosh...

 

[Episkopos]

Not only is your first paragraph utterly truthful, it is true also even apart from religion, in a family system, in politics, in the whole world - EVEN when someone doesn't know God but they tell the truth. If someone, anywhere, feels the truth makes them look bad, or even less than perfect, they want to ruthlessly destroy the reputation of the person who tells the truth and refuses their false narrative.

I can't even be contrite and say I'm sorry because if I'd been silent, you wouldn't have so graciously said what you did and I would not have obtained the wider view of this that I now have.

We interact through dialogue. That's how we make progress. Most don't know the difference between debate and deliberation. Debate seeks for a win over another. But deliberation means we tarry over an idea so that progress is made in understanding and knowledge. We also progress through participation...hence the church meetings being fully participatory....unlike the system that binds people into being receivers only, NOT contributors. ...think, indoctrination.

 

[Laurina]

Oh my gosh...

Welcome to the Forum!! :)

 

[MostlyConfused]

I think I might know what discernment is. I sometimes used to think I could see someone’s bad motive only to later find out I was thinking some ill of them that was just a mix up in communication or a misread or false assumption on my part.

But I think discernment is entirely different. You can SEE what they are doing, you aren’t guessing or assuming at all. It’s as if they are broadcasting what they are doing, have done or plan to do. They say or do a thing and then they accuse someone else of doing the thing and it’s very blatant. It’s like they try to convince others that their own bad is someone else’s character and that persons good is their own character.

The most bizarre part of it is that Im pretty sure they do NOT know they do it. I guess that’s “deceiving and being deceived.”
Do they ever escape it?

And if you point it out, boy, they will never, ever forgive you for what they have done to you!

I don’t even know how they get away with it since it is so blatant and unashamed…it’s like Kaa from Junglebook.

 

[Episkopos]

I think I might know what discernment is. I sometimes used to think I could see someone’s bad motive only to later find out I was thinking some ill of them that was just a mix up in communication or a misread or false assumption on my part.

But I think discernment is entirely different. You can SEE what they are doing, you aren’t guessing or assuming at all. It’s as if they are broadcasting what they are doing, have done or plan to do. They say or do a thing and then they accuse someone else of doing the thing and it’s very blatant. It’s like they try to convince others that their own bad is someone else’s character and that persons good is their own character.

The most bizarre part of it is that Im pretty sure they do NOT know they do it. I guess that’s “deceiving and being deceived.”
Do they ever escape it?

And if you point it out, boy, they will never, ever forgive you for what they have done to you!

I don’t even know how they get away with it since it is so blatant and unashamed…it’s like Kaa from Junglebook.

You are blessed to see that AND yet be a believer. In many cases these are mutually exclusive. To be indoctrinated means a leaving behind of honesty and critical thinking. Only then can you lay claim to a glory that is not your own...stealing the promises of God for yourself.

Deceiving and being deceived as you correctly put it. The outer man religion inverts the truth in the deceived ones without the inner man raising a warning. Was the inner man ever regenerated? Or has the covering lie so enveloped the person that no truth is possible?

For these, being "under grace" is actually being under a lie.....a BIG lie. Grace is deceitful. God has sent a strong delusion to those who are not humble nor fear the Lord. The mystery of iniquity is at work in these.

My mission is to rescue fellow believers BEFORE they are sealed in the lie for future judgment. Once this sealing lie covers the soul, there is no longer any way in. At least that has been my experience so far. Although I have reached a number of people with the truth that it seems were not yet fully sealed in iniquity yet.

 

[MostlyConfused]

You are blessed to see that AND yet be a believer. In many cases these are mutually exclusive

Do you mean that unbelievers see it more than believers do? Oh wait, you mean - uh yeah, I don’t know what you mean. Unless it has to do with the vs that says the children of the world are shrewder or wiser than the children of the light? Not sure that makes sense, unless it’s to say they know how to protect themselves and see to their good versus the children of the light being very manipulable and so being harmed…

 

[MostlyConfused]

Your post recalls something I recently read (dont remember where) where someone said there is a “being on the path to iniquity” and then there is being so solidly in it that it’s doubtful you can or will ever escape it.

Ive thought about how we are all so damaged and wondered if those more horribly harmed in childhood than others will be shown more mercy than we know since they can’t seem to heal from it as it was all established by the time they were even 6 or 8.

 

[Episkopos]

Do you mean that unbelievers see it more than believers do? Oh wait, you mean - uh yeah, I don’t know what you mean. Unless it has to do with the vs that says the children of the world are shrewder or wiser than the children of the light? Not sure that makes sense, unless it’s to say they know how to protect themselves and see to their good versus the children of the light being very manipulable and so being harmed…

A non-believer has no skin in the game, as it were. So it is possible for them to see the logic that follows God's ways. They will understand that humility is more important than certainty, for example. As soon as you bring in the religious dimension the human mind tends to throw out basic logic....based on a perceived difference between this world and the next where rules don't apply. Religious people can be made to believe anything based on that. But the truth has a logic to it....an upside down logic to be sure....but it can be tracked by the honest and humble.

Yes, the children of this world are wiser in their way than the children who have been given a sample of light. A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

 

[Episkopos]

Your post recalls something I recently read (dont remember where) where someone said there is a “being on the path to iniquity” and then there is being so solidly in it that it’s doubtful you can or will ever escape it.

Ive thought about how we are all so damaged and wondered if those more horribly harmed in childhood than others will be shown more mercy than we know since they can’t seem to heal from it as it was all established by the time they were even 6 or 8.

Is it that or is it that the road to iniquity seems more seductive to those who haven't had to suffer as much???

 

[MostlyConfused]

Is it that or is it that the road to iniquity seems more seductive to those who haven't had to suffer as much???

Maybe sometimes that and sometimes the other?
I knew a person who was a terror to be around, who absolutely HAD to be in control of everyone and everything, who manipulated to get their way on even silly little things that were ridiculous. They would look at any pushback or telling the truth about what they were doing as bullying as you trying to harm them and then they would see you as evil and had to try to either destroy you or make everyone miserable enough that you would let them get their way even though their way always seemed to end in the worst chaos you can imagine (and of course always blaming someone else for the mess). Their house was visible chaos and hoarding and I often wondered if I was seeing boxes of crap or if I was just seeing their disordered mind and emotions spilling out all over into temporal space. The backyard of this person cant even be described and I thought it was a primal scream of some sort.

I found out, close to the end of their life, some things about their childhood that were heartbreaking. So I can’t deny that they were awful, bordering on evil a lot of the time, but they had been severely damaged by how they were treated. And I thought about how to harm a child it would be better for you to be drowned in the sea and thought surely God might “give them a handicap,” like in golf.

 

[MostlyConfused]

I’d very much like to hear anything you care to relate about it or any relevant Vss or what I am not seeing or even that I’m a weak and fearful snowflake who lacks courage about judgement. I will listen.

 

[Lizbeth]

There is no such a thing as a progressive holiness. One is either holy or not. One is either a sinner or delivered from sin. You are looking for loopholes where none exists.

Your own testimony bears me out on this Epi. Are you not holy since you are not walking in the Spirit right now? Were you not holy in between those two experiences you had? You said yourself you still needed to learn and grow more or words to that effect, to be able to remain in that "higher walk". Even the children where one parent is believing and the other non-believing are called holy by God. I've experienced various degrees (or depths/heights?) of being in the Spirit and for varying lengths of time.

An heir is called an heir as soon as he/she is "born", not only after receiving the inheritance and starting to use it.

 

[MostlyConfused]

Maybe sometimes that and sometimes the other?
I knew a person who was a terror to be around, who absolutely HAD to be in control of everyone and everything, who manipulated to get their way on even silly little things that were ridiculous. They would look at any pushback or telling the truth about what they were doing as bullying as you trying to harm them and then they would see you as evil and had to try to either destroy you or make everyone miserable enough that you would let them get their way even though their way always seemed to end in the worst chaos you can imagine (and of course always blaming someone else for the mess). Their house was visible chaos and hoarding and I often wondered if I was seeing boxes of crap or if I was just seeing their disordered mind and emotions spilling out all over into temporal space. The backyard of this person cant even be described and I thought it was a primal scream of some sort.

I found out, close to the end of their life, some things about their childhood that were heartbreaking. So I can’t deny that they were awful, bordering on evil a lot of the time, but they had been severely damaged by how they were treated. And I thought about how to harm a child it would be better for you to be drowned in the sea and thought surely God might “give them a handicap,” like in golf.

This will NOT leave me. It just WON’T. No amount of frivolous extracurricular distraction will take me from it for more than a few minutes. So I sat to think and am almost convinced this is not me pressing it on me. I’m pretty sure reasoning won’t help me but I’m also pretty sure God will.
I feel like the black keys are not holding your sword back from blood and the white keys are please forgive them, they don’t KNOW what they’re doing, and I’m banging on one and you (episco) are banging on the other and its discordant and wrong. I can’t think of what to do but ask God to put it in tune and take a nap, so my pillow needs me.

 

[Episkopos]

Your own testimony bears me out on this Epi. Are you not holy since you are not walking in the Spirit right now?

Not holy. Learning righteousness and seeking God from my soul....collecting the dew in the morning.

Were you not holy in between those two experiences you had?

Not holy, but led by the Spirit.

You said yourself you still needed to learn and grow more or words to that effect, to be able to remain in that "higher walk".

The higher walk is supported by the character (tamim) of dependence and humility....obedience. Offering a pure sacrifice ...without blemish... involves having no guile no calculation. If I was always in the higher walk I would not have the same opportunities to relate the truth to others. I would not be on the forum, for example. I would not be doing a podcast. I would not have written a book. I also believe that Paul was not in the Spirit when he wrote the letters he did. I say that because he could look back on things...whereas in the Spirit there is no self-reflection. There is an immediacy to walking in God. A spontaneous life.

Even the children where one parent is believing and the other non-believing are called holy by God.

That aspect of holiness is about covering...spiritual covering. Just like the faithful brethren although not saints themselves, are covered by those who are holy. Holiness chases away evil. In the church the holiness of the leaders makes the whole church holy. When the leaders chase away prophets and those who preach holiness, then the whole congregation is apostate...as we see in the system churches of today.

From a family perspective, the father covers his family....under the umbrella of his authority. A woman who is holy covers her children. Even before the disciples were holy themselves the words of Jesus cleansed them. But unless people submit to that authority, there can be no covering. An example of this is Judas who was indeed covered until he exercised his free will to NOT be in submission to Christ.

I've experienced various degrees (or depths/heights?) of being in the Spirit and for varying lengths of time.

This is the first I hear of this. But you defend the flesh far more than any pursuit of holiness...always learning but never coming to the knowledge of the truth. I would question your assessment of what you think being in the Spirit entails. Can you describe such as a testimony?

Do you understand that grace is deceitful (for the carnal believer)? Do you know how important being crucified is to the holy life?

An heir is called an heir as soon as he/she is "born", not only after receiving the inheritance and starting to use it.

All creation pines for the revealing of the sons of God. The Jews were heirs until they were rejected. And MANY Christians will be likewise rejected because many are called but few are chosen. The Christian calling is a race that most will fail. Most fail grace completely. Burying their talent and mischaracterizing their calling as a fait accompli as opposed to a calling to surrender and die in Christ. Who seeks God's face? Who seeks first the kingdom of God? Any????

 

[Episkopos]

This will NOT leave me. It just WON’T. No amount of frivolous extracurricular distraction will take me from it for more than a few minutes. So I sat to think and am almost convinced this is not me pressing it on me. I’m pretty sure reasoning won’t help me but I’m also pretty sure God will.
I feel like the black keys are not holding your sword back from blood and the white keys are please forgive them, they don’t KNOW what they’re doing, and I’m banging on one and you (episco) are banging on the other and its discordant and wrong. I can’t think of what to do but ask God to put it in tune and take a nap, so my pillow needs me.

There is a time for everything. Resistance to the truth needs to be countered with instruction and warnings. I have been on this site for quite a while. The fact that I'm still here shows that I believe that no one is outside of God's love and forgiveness. All can be turned to the truth. Actions are more articulate than words. I am not a drive-by poster. Stick around here for 10 years or so...and we'll talk! ;) <><

PS: The key of F# has 5 "black keys" and 2 "white keys" :) <>< Is there discordance in the key of F#????

 

[MostlyConfused]

2036 then. It’s a deal!

 

[Episkopos]

2036 then. It’s a deal!

LOL Until then you can play the white keys and I will play the black keys...hopefully in harmony. :)

 

[MostlyConfused]

Okay, I’ll play the white keys as long as you promise not to hold back if you see me falling for a scam wrapped up in fake virtue for fear you’ll hurt my soft forehead. And I will let you play the black keys and try not to interrupt you or try to soften your forehead.