Reviving Biblical Christianity (The Way) Part 2

[Lizbeth]

So you are now saying that you telling me that you left the system churches 25 years ago was just a ploy...??? That you are actually an under-cover agent for American Christianity and the Protestant reformation???? Could the mask need some re-adjustment?

While the foundations were correct, one major area where the protestant evangelical churches fail is the lack of leaving the foundation, as it were, and "going on to perfection".......FINISHING the building of the tower, as Jesus put it in that parable. This is one reason I'm sure why people don't grow in churches and remain as babes. It is simply not preached or taught or expected. When I received Christ, I had about a year long joyous honeymoon with the Lord and then all hell broke loose in my life. I was on my own with it, just shocked and bewildered .and frightened...there was no teaching to help or encourage me in the churches I was attending, nothing about "be not surprised at the painful trial", nothing about being chastised as sons that we might partake of His holiness, nothing about carrying our cross, etc.

It's not that the foundation was incorrect, people get saved on that foundation.....the problem is that they wouldn't leave it to go on to perfection. Like the Israelites were led to leave the shore of the Red Sea to continue on to the Promised Land.

Luk 14:28
For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?

 

[marks]

LOL Playing innocent as you troll and accuse. You wipe your mouth and say...I have done nothing wrong. All anyone has to do is go back a little ways and read your contribution to this discussion. And where is the "much love" sign off that you like to prop up your posts with?

You've not changed a whit!

 

[Episkopos]

You've not changed a whit!

I am holding fast what He has given me till He comes~ :)

Much love

 

[MostlyConfused]

...and she was....God brought her out...she was alone, she was weaned of the Catholic practices, God made it impossible for her to be able to receive the practices Catholics receive, and the Catholic authorities rejected, persecuted, were evil to her, and imprisoned her, and cast her out of their diocese. She loved with such a great, all-encompassing love that God used her to draw the simple folk to the kingdom of God. She also talked to and drew Fenelon and some monks to the kingdom of God. She caused a big stir in the Cathoic organization. She and Fenelon were cast down within the Catholic structure. However, the man-made structured religion could not stop her because God was with her. She also wrote a little book on how to pray...it was and is still very helpful.
Madame Guyon was Catholic in the sense that it means universal...open to all (who have a heart). She did not pray to Mary. She taught people how to pray. Her book is called: The Simple Way of Prayer (A Method of Union with Christ) by Madame Jeanne Guyon.
I'm just amazed that you asked about books about saints and I give you one and there is such a reaction against!! Drop it...I was trying to be helpful, but it's ridiculous how many hoops one must jump through to be helpful to you. You are NOT open, and I'm not interested in jumping through your hoops. You are either open to God and His ways, or you are not. I think it is very plain to see which.

Peace, ...and may God open your eyes, ears and heart.

It’s funny that I was recommending Fenelon to you some days ago and then began reading the thread finally from the very beginning to see you have most probably already read him! Or maybe it was someone else I recommended to. I get confused if I don’t limit myself on what I focus on. Too many directions dissipates my vigor.

 

[MostlyConfused]

Any spirit that requires unquestioning conformity and tries to bludgeon or subtly intimidate people into conforming....is not of God

Those who are of a wrong spirit are threatened by testing or challenge and rise up to protect their idols, instead of examining anything.

people will often automatically reject and can often misrepresent anything they don't understand or haven't experienced for themselves

Oh I fought with myself so strenuously to leave it alone! I think I need to get my hearing checked…

 

[Laurina]

It’s funny that I was recommending Fenelon to you some days ago and then began reading the thread finally from the very beginning to see you have most probably already read him! Or maybe it was someone else I recommended to. I get confused if I don’t limit myself on what I focus on. Too many directions dissipates my vigor.

I believe you were were talking to Lizbeth about Fenelon, but I saw your post...yes, Fenelon is a very good read!!

 

[MostlyConfused]

As for walking in the Spirit...that is a lot more rare than people may think. What is more common is to be led by the Spirit at various times. Long before someone is caught up into the kingdom walk, there are times of touches from God...as samples of His grace. The worst thing a person can do is then to justify themselves by these encounters with God. Otherwise why would those who say Lord Lord and had done miraculous things still be rejected as not knowing the Lord?

This is terrifying beyond words

 

[Stumpmaster]

While the foundations were correct, one major area where the protestant evangelical churches fail is the lack of leaving the foundation, as it were, and "going on to perfection".......FINISHING the building of the tower, as Jesus put it in that parable. This is one reason I'm sure why people don't grow in churches and remain as babes. It is simply not preached or taught or expected. When I received Christ, I had about a year long joyous honeymoon with the Lord and then all hell broke loose in my life. I was on my own with it, just shocked and bewildered .and frightened...there was no teaching to help or encourage me in the churches I was attending, nothing about "be not surprised at the painful trial", nothing about being chastised as sons that we might partake of His holiness, nothing about carrying our cross, etc.

It's not that the foundation was incorrect, people get saved on that foundation.....the problem is that they wouldn't leave it to go on to perfection. Like the Israelites were led to leave the shore of the Red Sea to continue on to the Promised Land.

Luk 14:28
For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?

Indeed. Much to ponder @Lizbeth

 

[MostlyConfused]

The higher walk is supported by the character (tamim) of dependence and humility....obedience. Offering a pure sacrifice ...without blemish... involves having no guile no calculation. If I was always in the higher walk I would not have the same opportunities to relate the truth to others. I would not be on the forum, for example. I would not be doing a podcast. I would not have written a book. I also believe that Paul was not in the Spirit when he wrote the letters he did. I say that because he could look back on things...whereas in the Spirit there is no self-reflection. There is an immediacy to walking in God. A spontaneous life.

This does not seem it could be right. You did say those walking in the Spirit are usually in some kind of ministry. And this is your ministry. So how do you know He would not have you do any of the things you are currently doing? And you could say you are walking completely in your own power but I don’t think I can quite believe that.
I’ve never walked in the Spirit. I don’t have a ministry. But I am not walking completely in my own power but am being kept and directed or moved in some way that’s hard to explain. I have become aware that something I keep thinking about or coming back to is my steps being guided somehow. It feels almost as if He is purposely hiding that from me but sometimes I catch Him and realize He was setting something up, like a lesson through circumstance or…I don’t know, sort of like that.

Another strange thing is if I have to go out into the world because of some necessity, I go, do the thing, come back, even find that people seem to bend over backwards to help me, everything in me operating normally. But if I go out into the world for something that is more related to boredom or to obtain something I don’t really of necessity need, I’m like a little kitten dodging traffic. Like, even with phone GPS giving me step by step voice directions, I keep getting lost over and over because I’m somehow not operating correctly. Or I’ll be listening to someone telling me how to obtain what I came for and I almost can’t even understand a word they are saying. Often, I give up trying to do what I went out to do and just go back home, having accomplished nothing but the use of some gas and a bewildered state that I might be getting Alzheimer’s.
So I don’t go out much and only if it’s necessary because I think God must want me here because I can’t think of anything else this must be. It seems if I try to act of my own volition, without any necessity involved, I am helpless. That doesn’t seem like walking completely in my own power but rather that if I DO try to walk in my own power or by my own will I can’t seem to function correctly.

Im not greatly disturbed by this, though I don’t know what it’s about or what it means. But it doesn’t appear that I’m walking completely in my own power. Not COMPLETELY. In fact, full trust and a complete surrender seems to necessarily mean I DO believe He is doing His will in me, on me, to me, with me, even if all is strange confusion at times.

Im thinking you will say that’s being led, but still walking completely in your own power, but if that was the case it wouldn’t explain the situation I’ve described, would it…?

 

[shepherdsword]

Yes, I see this a lot, but not in a good way.


I don't see this, I see something very dark, having read his threads for over the past 10 years.

I've seen him mercilessly needle and insult and provoke others, even rather gentle people, until they finally crack, and misspeak (even in a minor way) to see him pounce like a tiger on it's prey, this is NOT Christianity.

Everyone sees what they see . . . I've seen this consistently over the years.

He is very practiced at what he does.

Much love!

In the great scheme of things I see deception running rampant. Who am ,I to think I am not deceived as well? Every single person that is deceived thinks he has the truth. Am I in that club? Are you? To be honest, Epi has shaken me up and caused me to fear for my standing at the judgement seat of Christ. My only hope is God's mercy. I look righteous to others on the the surface but when measured by the Holiness of God I am vile and despicable. I have been a believer in Christ for many years. My progress has been slow and painful, full of tears and loneliness, backsliding and renewal. My life hangs on by a thread and I feel spiritually I am hanging on by my fingernails. The only relief I receive are the times when the Lord refreshes me with His presence. I sometimes make two steps forward and three back. In anguish and pain I cry out with my entire being. I am all but housebound and what ministry I have seems to be ineffective. My entire existence seems to be a failure. I find little solace in religious cliches, slogans and dogma. I need to experience the living God and have the life that only true fellowship with Him can bring. A man in my state doesn't view Epi the same way you do. You measure him the same way the Pharisees measured Jesus. He APPEARED to violate the sabbath and the law by their understanding. I think you are doing the same with Epi. I am not trying to insult you it's just that I think you are doing the guy a disservice. I don't agree with everything he says but I do note this. In all my years I have never heard anyone talk like this guy. I think it would be an injustice to ignore him with a causal dismissal based on snap judgements. I know you have been dealing with him for over 10 years but it's been about 15 for me. I was a mod at another forum and when this guy showed up it shook the entire leadership. All he did was post a few scriptures and give his take on them. The responses were intense and hateful. While his words did have a ring of truth to me I didn't agree with them all but recognized he had something. I became his friend. I have never been personally insulted by him. My beliefs, however, have been challenged. Some can't handle that. I just realize that I am no great thing and sometimes need correction. I am nothing...Jesus is all.

Blessings

 

[Episkopos]

This does not seem it could be right. You did say those walking in the Spirit are usually in some kind of ministry. And this is your ministry. So how do you know He would not have you do any of the things you are currently doing? And you could say you are walking completely in your own power but I don’t think I can quite believe that.

There is a big difference between being in the Spirit and being led by the Spirit....or by understanding of the Spirit. I am convinced that Paul wrote those letters when he was not in the Spirit...but he still was informed by the spiritual knowledge and understanding he had gained. Ministering to people does not require being in the Spirit. Ministering to God does.

I’ve never walked in the Spirit. I don’t have a ministry. But I am not walking completely in my own power but am being kept and directed or moved in some way that’s hard to explain. I have become aware that something I keep thinking about or coming back to is my steps being guided somehow. It feels almost as if He is purposely hiding that from me but sometimes I catch Him and realize He was setting something up, like a lesson through circumstance or…I don’t know, sort of like that.

Agreed. Being led by the Spirit...guided by the Spirit either directly or indirectly.

Another strange thing is if I have to go out into the world because of some necessity, I go, do the thing, come back, even find that people seem to bend over backwards to help me, everything in me operating normally. But if I go out into the world for something that is more related to boredom or to obtain something I don’t really of necessity need, I’m like a little kitten dodging traffic. Like, even with phone GPS giving me step by step voice directions, I keep getting lost over and over because I’m somehow not operating correctly. Or I’ll be listening to someone telling me how to obtain what I came for and I almost can’t even understand a word they are saying. Often, I give up trying to do what I went out to do and just go back home, having accomplished nothing but the use of some gas and a bewildered state that I might be getting Alzheimer’s.
So I don’t go out much and only if it’s necessary because I think God must want me here because I can’t think of anything else this must be. It seems if I try to act of my own volition, without any necessity involved, I am helpless. That doesn’t seem like walking completely in my own power but rather that if I DO try to walk in my own power or by my own will I can’t seem to function correctly.

This is a good thing. We are all unique individuals...what is good for one may not be good for another. Each according to God's will. We are the servant of God or we are doing our own thing.

Im not greatly disturbed by this, though I don’t know what it’s about or what it means. But it doesn’t appear that I’m walking completely in my own power. Not COMPLETELY. In fact, full trust and a complete surrender seems to necessarily mean I DO believe He is doing His will in me, on me, to me, with me, even if all is strange confusion at times.

Each according to the measure of faith.

Im thinking you will say that’s being led, but still walking completely in your own power, but if that was the case it wouldn’t explain the situation I’ve described, would it…?

I'm not saying completely in my own power...but I'm drawing a distinction between a normal walk and a walk that is no longer "I" at all.

 

[MostlyConfused]

Thank you for clarifying.
Im very interested in your next video. I don’t remember what you said the topic will be but when I read it I thought it would be of very great help.

 

[IndianaRob]

In the great scheme of things I see deception running rampant. Who am ,I to think I am not deceived as well? Every single person that is deceived thinks he has the truth. Am I in that club? Are you? To be honest, Epi has shaken me up and caused me to fear for my standing at the judgement seat of Christ. My only hope is God's mercy. I look righteous to others on the the surface but when measured by the Holiness of God I am vile and despicable. I have been a believer in Christ for many years. My progress has been slow and painful, full of tears and loneliness, backsliding and renewal. My life hangs on by a thread and I feel spiritually I am hanging on by my fingernails. The only relief I receive are the times when the Lord refreshes me with His presence. I sometimes make two steps forward and three back. In anguish and pain I cry out with my entire being. I am all but housebound and what ministry I have seems to be ineffective. My entire existence seems to be a failure. I find little solace in religious cliches, slogans and dogma. I need to experience the living God and have the life that only true fellowship with Him can bring. A man in my state doesn't view Epi the same way you do. You measure him the same way the Pharisees measured Jesus. He APPEARED to violate the sabbath and the law by their understanding. I think you are doing the same with Epi. I am not trying to insult you it's just that I think you are doing the guy a disservice. I don't agree with everything he says but I do note this. In all my years I have never heard anyone talk like this guy. I think it would be an injustice to ignore him with a causal dismissal based on snap judgements. I know you have been dealing with him for over 10 years but it's been about 15 for me. I was a mod at another forum and when this guy showed up it shook the entire leadership. All he did was post a few scriptures and give his take on them. The responses were intense and hateful. While his words did have a ring of truth to me I didn't agree with them all but recognized he had something. I became his friend. I have never been personally insulted by him. My beliefs, however, have been challenged. Some can't handle that. I just realize that I am no great thing and sometimes need correction. I am nothing...Jesus is all.

Blessings

It’s sounds like Epi has just made you feel guilty and made your depression worse. Christ came to set us free that.

Christianity is about a relationship with Jesus, not performing for him.

 

[shepherdsword]

It’s sounds like Epi has just made you feel guilty and made your depression worse. Christ came to set us free that.

Christianity is about a relationship with Jesus, not performing for him.

To this we must take heed

2 Co 5:10-11 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

The religious dogma of the Babylonian system tells us we have nothing to fear. The bible says otherwise. This is why we must be lowly and humble and not assume we are something we are not. Nor should we deal with matters that are over our head:

Ps 131:1 Lord, my heart is not haughty, nor mine eyes lofty: neither do I exercise myself in great matters, or in things too high for me.

 

[Episkopos]

It’s sounds like Epi has just made you feel guilty and made your depression worse. Christ came to set us free that.

Free from bondage to sin....not freedom from bad feelings. Those "bad feelings" are required in order to surrender ourselves fully to the Lord to get freedom and comfort from Him. Too many believers comfort themselves and never know eternal rest.

The body of Christ is there....not to push away the sense of failure that brings humility. No, the Publican was justified in his disgust of himself. Again, most are like the Pharisee that see nothing wrong with their supposed relationship with God.....of course until they actually meet God on judgment day. Then the bad feelings will kick in. Wisdom is in the house of mourning, not jubilation.

Christianity is about a relationship with Jesus, not performing for him.

This is what you have been taught. But I have not found any who say that that have an actual relationship with Christ. It's just a ploy. The kingdom of God is a meritocracy. Those whom God loves He comforts???? Not at first. Those whom He loves He whips and rebukes.


This whole life is a performance before the Lord. He judges, not we. We can't judge ourselves to be justified or approved of God...unless we are living as we read in Acts...by the power of God. THEN we can declare that we are in relationship with the living God. We know it by works...not beliefs and indoctrination.

Do you realize that someone on drugs who thinks he can fly...never can!!!!??? Beliefs don't give us any power except to deceive.

 

[Episkopos]

To this we must take heed

2 Co 5:10-11 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

The religious dogma of the Babylonian system tells us we have nothing to fear. The bible says otherwise. This is why we must be lowly and humble and not assume we are something we are not. Nor should we deal with matters that are over our head:

Ps 131:1 Lord, my heart is not haughty, nor mine eyes lofty: neither do I exercise myself in great matters, or in things too high for me.

Wise sayings brother. Hardly anyone seeks approval from God these days. They are happy thinking they are in a "personal relationship" with a deity. What isn't clear is which deity...