Reviving Biblical Christianity (The Way) Part 2

[Episkopos]

No, I don't want anyone or myself to be only half right

In my experience with you I would say that is untrue.

....that is why I've been trying very hard to rightly divide everything.

I believe you do try very hard, but you are relying on your own understanding, which is futile. Your cleverness will never attain to Christ.

You are calling the foundations of the Christian faith the strong delusion

This is untrue (and you are falsely accusing me to get support from the crows). The foundation of the Christian faith is Christ...not some doctrine that Luther or other charlatans have come up with.

I just read a man's statement that said that his faith is based on scripture alone (sola scriptura). Well that's YOUR kind of foundation, not mine. A man whose sole foundation is the bible is lost. Turn to Christ instead.

.........and you are offended that anyone would want to test and examine that? Oh my.

More lies. I start these threads to discuss serious matters. It is the accusers that change the tone from deeper dialogues to personal attacks against me. If I correct a person who is trying to teach a lie on the thread, I have every right in the Lord to call them out. If they persist then I rebuke them.

 

[Episkopos]

Works salvation people ALWAYS try to take away our liberty in Christ and put the believer back in bondage.

You have been indoctrinated by men. The bible says that works salvation is accepted with God. What you are saying goes against the words of God.

I’ve even seen them say Paul wasn’t saved when he wrote Romans because of the freedom Paul teaches in Romans.

You seem to have seen a lot in your time. However, I don't think you know what you are talking about. Freedom in Christ is freedom from sin...not freedom from responsibility from sin. Can you perceive the difference? Now read the bible again with that kind of freedom in mind...not a lawless salvation, but a lawful one. Would you agree that you have advanced to the point where you now embrace a lawless salvation?

(Now I see why you agree with Lizbeth)

 

[IndianaRob]

This is the actual opposite of what the verse says. You are looking for forgiveness IN your sins. But the cross of Christ is not about forgiveness...it is an instrument of death that is VERY unforgiving.

You say what I said is the opposite of what the verse says. Here’s the verse from the King James. Can you point out in that verse where it says anything about “in your sin”?

Does the translation your using “in your sins”?

Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

 

[IndianaRob]

You have been indoctrinated by men. The bible says that works salvation is accepted with God. What you are saying goes against the words of God.

You seem to have seen a lot in your time. However, I don't think you know what you are talking about. Freedom in Christ is freedom from sin...not freedom from responsibility from sin. Can you perceive the difference? Now read the bible again with that kind of freedom in mind...not a lawless salvation, but a lawful one. Would you agree that you have advanced to the point where you now embrace a lawless salvation?

(Now I see why you agree with Lizbeth)

What makes you different than these folks?

Gal 2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

 

[Episkopos]

What makes you different than these folks?

Gal 2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

The difference is that you are a hammer looking for a nail. Are you just reacting to a sermon you heard on Sunday (or on line)? Now you are looking for people who hate freedom? Do you realize that Paul was speaking about the Jews who were trying to convert Christians to Judaism? Judaizers. Have you heard of them?

Again...how are you different from the lawless ones who have a lawless salvation? Jesus doesn't condemn Judaizers per se...but He does reject lawless believers. Have you been taught that? Have you read the bible all the way through yet?

 

[Episkopos]

You say what I said is the opposite of what the verse says. Here’s the verse from the King James. Can you point out in that verse where it says anything about “in your sin”?

Does the translation your using “in your sins”?

Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

What you are not seeing is that this is about serving God...not ignoring works. Do you realize that serving the living God involves works?

 

[Lizbeth]

He is not leaving out mercy. Gods’ mercy IS to be merciless with our outer man in order to free us from his totalitarian rule. He SEES more than you and he literally treats you and your outer man as he would want to be treated if he were in your condition. If he treats his own flesh roughly and did not do the same for you, he would be harming you. You are literally, but without knowing it, asking others to harm you!

I know that sister, and faithful are the wounds of a Friend. But that is not the only way God is merciful. Epi said the kingdom of God is a meritocracy.....that is taking it way too far.

 

[Lizbeth]

Works salvation people ALWAYS try to take away our liberty in Christ and put the believer back in bondage.

I’ve even seen them say Paul wasn’t saved when he wrote Romans because of the freedom Paul teaches in Romans.

I'm not a believer in OSAS brother......but it is interesting how Paul gets called into question whenever his writing doesn't agree with their theology.

 

[MostlyConfused]

@shepherdsword , I wanted to say something else and forgot.
When my trial was at the worst it had ever been or maybe I should say the hardest it had ever been, I sometimes would turn on some mindless tv show from the 60’s to distract me from my misery for a bit, which in my case included an uncomfortable feeling and somewhat painful of a heavy weight pressing and squeezing my heart in waves that would go on for awhile. I maybe shouldn’t have included that part because all may not feel it. Probably don’t.

But I would wonder if I was doing something wrong or trying to escape whatever God was doing but I still did so when it became too much for me. Later I read from one of the mystics on my shelf (cant tell you which one) that during an extremely hard or particularly heavy trial, it would not hurt us to sometimes take a harmless distraction,so I stopped worrying if I was doing wrong and didn’t let it bother me again and just took my hands off of it. In fact, I thought it might be similar to Paul telling Timothy to take a bit of wine for his anxious stomach sometimes or like teaching a woman a certain breathing technique/distraction from the pain of giving birth by focusing on the breathing. I even thought to refuse the distraction might be like crazy oleLuther whipping himself!

Anyway, that’s all I wanted to say. Just in case it might help you. If it doesn’t seem good to you, by all means dismiss it and if it helps I will be glad.

 

[shepherdsword]

@shepherdsword , I wanted to say something else and forgot.
When my trial was at the worst it had ever been or maybe I should say the hardest it had ever been, I sometimes would turn on some mindless tv show from the 60’s to distract me from my misery for a bit, which in my case included an uncomfortable feeling and somewhat painful of a heavy weight pressing and squeezing my heart in waves that would go on for awhile. I maybe shouldn’t have included that part because all may not feel it. Probably don’t.

But I would wonder if I was doing something wrong or trying to escape whatever God was doing but I still did so when it became too much for me. Later I read from one of the mystics on my shelf (cant tell you which one) that during an extremely hard or particularly heavy trial, it would not hurt us to sometimes take a harmless distraction,so I stopped worrying if I was doing wrong and didn’t let it bother me again and just took my hands off of it. In fact, I thought it might be similar to Paul telling Timothy to take a bit of wine for his anxious stomach sometimes or like teaching a woman a certain breathing technique/distraction from the pain of giving birth by focusing on the breathing. I even thought to refuse the distraction might be like crazy oleLuther whipping himself!

Anyway, that’s all I wanted to say. Just in case it might help you. If it doesn’t seem good to you, by all means dismiss it and if it helps I will be glad.

wow, that is a word in due season! I know the exact feeling

 

[IndianaRob]

What you are not seeing is that this is about serving God...not ignoring works. Do you realize that serving the living God involves works?

What I see is that you avoided my question. The verse doesn’t say what you said it did and you wont address it.

 

[MostlyConfused]

wow, that is a word in due season! I know the exact feeling

Really?? You mean the squeezing on your heart?

 

[Episkopos]

What I see is that you avoided my question. The verse doesn’t say what you said it did and you wont address it.

Here is what you are looking for...

“Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;” 1 Tim 4:2

This speaks of no longer thinking sin is an issue with God...as the Babylonian system teaches.

 

[Episkopos]

I know that sister, and faithful are the wounds of a Friend. But that is not the only way God is merciful. Epi said the kingdom of God is a meritocracy.....that is taking it way too far.

You need to stop using your own understanding. But for those who have an issue with the kingdom of God being a meritocracy...
Just one example...

And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
7 If thou do well, shall you not be accepted? and if you do not well, sin lies at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him. Gen 4:6-7

Does this sound like equality of outcome or equality of opportunity?

And are you doing well to be accepted?

 

[IndianaRob]

I'm not a believer in OSAS brother......but it is interesting how Paul gets called into question whenever his writing doesn't agree with their theology.

I’m surprised to hear that. How does one lose their salvation in your opinion?

 

[IndianaRob]

Here is what you are looking for...

“Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;” 1 Tim 4:2

This speaks of no longer thinking sin is an issue with God...as the Babylonian system teaches.

You avoided my question again. Can you point out in that verse where it says anything about “in your sin”?

Look, you won’t answer the question because it isn’t there. Why not just admit it’s not there instead of trying changing the subject?

Am I being unreasonable for asking you to finish what we started before moving on?

 

[Lizbeth]

You need to stop using your own understanding. But for those who have an issue with the kingdom of God being a meritocracy...
Just one example...

And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
7 If thou do well, shall you not be accepted? and if you do not well, sin lies at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him. Gen 4:6-7

Does this sound like equality of outcome or equality of opportunity?

And are you doing well to be accepted?

I think I'll leave off talking to you for a bit. You ruin your own counsel with all your demeaning and belittling sarcasm and I can see you're on a roll again today. Sometimes I have thought you would have had a good word if only you hadn't added your flesh to it.

Leaning on our own understanding is what keeps us from being able to resolve apparent contradictions in scripture and being able to hold the truth in spirit.

 

[Laurina]

Leaning on our own understanding is what keeps us from being able to resolve apparent contradictions in scripture and being able to hold the truth in spirit.

Says you.....but the scriptures say this:

Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
Proverbs 3:5-6

So which is it...do we listen to your reasoning, or to the scriptures?!??

And I will add, that it is very apparent that you do NOT hold the truth in spirit.

 

[Episkopos]

You avoided my question again. Can you point out in that verse where it says anything about “in your sin”?

Look, you won’t answer the question because it isn’t there. Why not just admit it’s not there instead of trying changing the subject?

Am I being unreasonable for asking you to finish what we started before moving on?

I could ask you the same question...but you are not here to be honest only to regurgitate whatever form of doctrine you heard last that you liked.

But why do you think the wages of sin is NOT death for you?

 

[Episkopos]

The religious system churns out people that ape what they have been indoctrinated into. Not real believers but poster children of an ideology based on the traditions of men. But knowing an ideology does not mean one knows God. The bible does not replace God. The letter kills but the Spirit gives life.