Reviving Biblical Christianity (The Way) Part 2

[bdavidc]

It's appalling to me how Epi is treating the death of Jesus. His death on the cross was mankind's atonement for sin (for whosoever would receive it).....how can there be justification and mercy without it? We are to walk in His resurrection life, yes, but that wouldn't be possible apart from Jesus dying on the cross.........and Paul wrote about carrying about in his body the death of Jesus that the life of Jesus would be manifested in his body.

The point Epi is making about people wanting justification without mercy I think is valid only if it isn't taken too far in dividing the one from the other Many take their salvation for granted and haven't learned for themselves yet the reality of just how lost and sinful they are without the Lord, how much in need of His mercy we are, that in our flesh is truly no good thing....we learn that as we grow, if we grow.

The saints of the old testament who God justified are shown to all have faith as the new testament records.......they had works of righteousness too, but they also had sin....and the Lord wrote about some of their sins/shortcomings in the bible, that we would learn from them. Imputation of righteousness means that one's sins are not being imputed to them...and that was made possible by the cross, which reaches back into history so to speak.

I agree with you. That is exactly the issue I am trying to get at. You cannot separate justification from the cross as though Christ’s death were somehow secondary to His life. Scripture says plainly, “being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him” (Romans 5:9).

And you are right about the Old Testament saints. Romans 4 uses Abraham and David specifically to show that God “justifieth the ungodly” through faith and “imputeth righteousness without works” (Romans 4:5-6). Their works were evidence of faith, but their works were never the basis of their justification.

I also agree that nobody should treat grace lightly or presume upon God’s mercy. But the answer to that problem is not to blur justification by faith with justification by works. Paul leaves no room for that: “if by grace, then is it no more of works” (Romans 11:6).

That is why Epi’s statement that justification comes from Christ’s life “not His death” is so serious. Scripture does not give us that option. Without the shedding of blood there is no remission (Hebrews 9:22), and without the cross there is no resurrection life for us to walk in.

 

[bdavidc]

What is truly appalling is how you massacre the word as you filter it through your carnal "mind temple." Jesus redeemed the WORLD back to God...not individuals ...through His death. It is paid for...it is finished....the payment. God has His world back. False religionists seek to STEAL that redemption away for themselves and deny it to others...based on their whim and lack of mercy.

Jesus was raised for our justification. That is on an individual basis. We are not individually saved by Christ's death....but we are individually saved by entering into His resurrection life....in victory over sin.

So the modern religious scheme is to CLAIM Jesus as being exclusive for them while consigning all others to hell. But God is wiser...He will reject those who claim Him in exclusivity and give mercy to the meek...and NON-claimers.

And your....believe it and receive it is just another name it claim it, blab it grab it scheme you want to overlay on the bible that says quite the opposite. You are trying to save yourself based on your own self-interest. You have to let God get involved on a personal basis. You can't steal for yourself what is meant for all. You are looting. And looters will invariably be shot.

This is not a minor disagreement. You just said, “We are not individually saved by Christ’s death,” and then claimed God will give mercy to “NON-claimers.” Both statements directly contradict Scripture.

Paul says, “being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him” (Romans 5:9). Peter says we were redeemed “with the precious blood of Christ” (1 Peter 1:18-19). Revelation says Christ “redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation” (Revelation 5:9). That is people being redeemed by His blood, not merely some impersonal redemption of “the world.”

Yes, Romans 4:25 says Jesus “was raised again for our justification,” but the same verse says He “was delivered for our offences.” You are creating a division Scripture does not make. The cross and resurrection are not competing doctrines.

And your claim about God giving mercy to “NON-claimers” is even worse. “He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life” (1 John 5:12). “He that believeth not is condemned already” (John 3:18). “Neither is there salvation in any other” (Acts 4:12).

You are not correcting Lizbeth here. You are contradicting Paul, Peter, John, and Jesus Christ. Telling people they can receive saving mercy apart from having the Son, while denying that Christ’s blood saves individuals, is false teaching about the gospel itself.

Paul already gave the warning: “If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed” (Galatians 1:9).

Stop attacking people for believing what Scripture plainly says. Repent of teaching another gospel.

 

[bdavidc]

At some point, arguing can become pointless and even spiritually unprofitable.

2 Timothy 2:24
New King James Version
24 And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient,

Titus 3:10
King James Version
10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;

@Lizbeth There is merit in letting the argument go. The Bible doesn't encourage us to keep arguing with those we disagree with on spiritual matters. We don't have to convince anyone of anything. You've been arguing on these threads for a while now. Why not move on and be at peace?

@TitusTwoWife, you just quoted Titus 3:10 and then applied it to the wrong people.

Paul said, “A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject” (Titus 3:10). He did not say, “Tell the people exposing the heretic to be quiet while allowing the heretic to keep teaching.”

Read what Paul says just a chapter earlier about false teachers: “There are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers...whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not” (Titus 1:10-11). Then Paul says, “Wherefore rebuke them sharply” (Titus 1:13).

That is Scripture.

This is not simply people “disagreeing on spiritual matters.” Episkopos has publicly said, “We are not individually saved by Christ's death,” when Scripture says, “being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him” (Romans 5:9). He has said God will give mercy to “NON-claimers,” while Scripture says, “He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life” (1 John 5:12).

That is false teaching about the gospel.

Paul did not tell believers to make peace with another gospel. He said, “If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed” (Galatians 1:9). Jude said we are to “earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints” (Jude 3).

And 2 Timothy 2:24 does not overturn any of that. Yes, the servant of the Lord is not to be quarrelsome. But the same Paul repeatedly exposed false teachers, named them, warned the churches about them, and commanded that false teaching be stopped.

So if the staff wants to apply Titus correctly, then apply it to the man persistently teaching another gospel. After repeated correction, reject him.

The Bible obviously does not use the modern word “ban” because internet forums did not exist, but on a Christian forum the practical application is not difficult to understand. If a man repeatedly teaches serious error about Christ and salvation after being warned, stop giving him a platform to keep spreading it.

Do not rebuke the people sounding the alarm while protecting the man causing the problem.

And every one of us, staff included, needs to remember this: “So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God” (Romans 14:12).

If this is supposed to be a Christian forum, then protect people from false teaching instead of telling the people exposing it to move on.

 

[Episkopos]

I agree with you. That is exactly the issue I am trying to get at. You cannot separate justification from the cross as though Christ’s death were somehow secondary to His life. Scripture says plainly, “being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him” (Romans 5:9).

And you are right about the Old Testament saints. Romans 4 uses Abraham and David specifically to show that God “justifieth the ungodly” through faith and “imputeth righteousness without works” (Romans 4:5-6). Their works were evidence of faith, but their works were never the basis of their justification.

I also agree that nobody should treat grace lightly or presume upon God’s mercy. But the answer to that problem is not to blur justification by faith with justification by works. Paul leaves no room for that: “if by grace, then is it no more of works” (Romans 11:6).

That is why Epi’s statement that justification comes from Christ’s life “not His death” is so serious. Scripture does not give us that option. Without the shedding of blood there is no remission (Hebrews 9:22), and without the cross there is no resurrection life for us to walk in.

I am talking to you as one who has walked in holiness in the kingdom realm without sin for extended periods of time ...and you are trying to correct me on the finer points of bible exegesis? I speak in understatements here even as people attack me with rebelliously inflated egos.

 

[marks]

I am talking to you as one who has walked in holiness in the kingdom realm without sin for extended periods of time

So you say. But there is no evidence. The heart is revealed in one's words, and you have revealed yourself countless times.

 

[marks]

I am talking to you as one who has walked in holiness in the kingdom realm without sin for extended periods of time ...and you are trying to correct me on the finer points of bible exegesis? I speak in understatements here even as people attack me with rebelliously inflated egos.

John 9:34 KJV
They answered and said unto him, Thou wast altogether born in sins, and dost thou teach us? And they cast him out.

 

[bdavidc]

There are different levels of God's peace. Even just reading the bible can cleanse a conscience so that it brings peace. The problem is in what we DO after that.

The is a cleansing of the Lord that lasts all day IF we retain a humble and submitted stance by allowing the inner man to lead...at the expense of the outer man and his desires. So we can have perfect peace if our hearts are stayed on Him. Of course most forget what they look like in the inner man and by noon have become so filthy that they need to be re-cleansed. Rinse and repeat.

Then there is entering INTO the Spirit. This does NOT require a daily washing by the word...because blood is thicker than water, so to speak. We are washed in the blood (life) of Christ as we enter into Him. And that is at different depths too. So a person can be IN the Spirit and yet not see the kingdom realm. They are on the edge of it....not sinning...empowered but not to the level of the eyes....because even the smallest amount of God's grace is enough for victory over sin. His grace is SUFFICIENT for that purpose. There is a profound peace even at that level...and real ministry can take place there. But the deepest place in the Spirit is reserved for prophets. God judges the false prophets in that....they have seen nothing. It is in the seeing that one gets the full picture of what the gospel is about....in FULL resolution. What grace is about in FULL resolution.

From there if one doesn't minister the truth to others...then that one, like a watchman, is responsible for the deviations in the body of Christ. If they hear...then they will be saved. If they don't then their judgment is on them.

This is exactly the kind of teaching that sounds deep until you hold it up to the Bible.

You talk about different levels of peace, different depths in the Spirit, people standing on the edge of the kingdom, believers reaching a place where they are not sinning, and then some deeper prophetic level where a man finally sees the gospel in “FULL resolution.”

Show me that in Scripture.

The Bible does not teach some spiritual ladder where ordinary Christians are down here and a special class of prophets climbs high enough to finally see what the gospel really means. Paul says, “if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his” (Romans 8:9). He says believers have “all been made to drink into one Spirit” (1 Corinthians 12:13).

Then you take “My grace is sufficient for thee” from 2 Corinthians 12:9 and turn it into proof that even a small amount of grace gives someone victory over sin. That is not what the passage says. Christ was answering Paul about his thorn in the flesh. You are pulling a sentence out of its context and building your own doctrine on it.

And this talk about prophets seeing the gospel in “FULL resolution” is where this gets dangerous. The gospel was not left blurry until somebody had a mystical experience and finally saw it clearly. Paul preached it. The apostles delivered it. Jude says the faith was “once delivered unto the saints” (Jude 3). Paul said, “though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you...let him be accursed” (Galatians 1:8).

We do not need your spiritual levels, your inner realms, your special seeing, or your private experiences to understand the gospel. We need the Word of God.

Paul even warned about men “intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind” (Colossians 2:18).

You keep dressing your own spiritual system up in Bible language and calling it deeper Christianity. It is not deeper. It is false, and you are adding things God never said.

If this teaching is from God, then open the Bible and prove it. If you cannot, stop passing your own experiences and theories off as biblical truth.

 

[bdavidc]

I am talking to you as one who has walked in holiness in the kingdom realm without sin for extended periods of time ...and you are trying to correct me on the finer points of bible exegesis? I speak in understatements here even as people attack me with rebelliously inflated egos.

Epi, you just proved the problem again. Instead of answering Romans 5:9, Romans 4:5-6, Romans 11:6, and Hebrews 9:22, you appeal to your own supposed spiritual experience and tell us you have walked “without sin for extended periods of time.”

That does not make you an authority over Scripture.

God says, “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us” (1 John 1:8). Scripture also says, “For in many things we offend all” (James 3:2), and, “There is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not” (Ecclesiastes 7:20).

So no, I do not accept your claim of extended sinlessness simply because you say you experienced it. Your experience must bow to the Word of God.

And holiness is not boasting about some “kingdom realm” you claim to have entered. Holiness means walking according to God’s truth. Jesus prayed, “Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth” (John 17:17). Yet you continue teaching things that directly contradict what God has plainly written about justification, Christ’s blood, grace, and salvation.

That is not holiness. That is defiance of God’s Word.

You say you have walked without sin, yet you keep resisting correction from Scripture and placing your own experiences above what is written. The Bible has something to say about that too: “God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble” (James 4:6), and, “Let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall” (1 Corinthians 10:12).

And because you are teaching these things publicly, James gives another warning: “My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation” (James 3:1).

You need to stop boasting about your spiritual level and start answering the Bible.

Romans 5:9 still says we are “justified by his blood.” Romans 4:5 still says God “justifieth the ungodly” through faith. Romans 11:6 still says grace and works cannot be mixed. Hebrews 9:22 still says, “without shedding of blood is no remission.”

Your claimed experiences do not overturn one word of that.

If what you are teaching contradicts what God has written, then your teaching is wrong, no matter how holy you claim to have been. “Let God be true, but every man a liar” (Romans 3:4).

You do not need another mystical experience. You need to repent and submit your teaching to the Word of God.

 

[Episkopos]

@TitusTwoWife, you just quoted Titus 3:10 and then applied it to the wrong people.

Paul said, “A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject” (Titus 3:10). He did not say, “Tell the people exposing the heretic to be quiet while allowing the heretic to keep teaching.”

You think you are in place of leadership over the international church? That just begins to show how mentally unstable you are. Are you in an institution? Do you abuse certain substances? You have a huge ego so I know you go to or have gone to a decoy church...and listened to pulpiteers that inflated you ego. But you should be speaking to yourself. You are the heretic. You can't hear anything deeper than what justifies you in your sin...just like so many here.

Read what Paul says just a chapter earlier about false teachers: “There are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers...whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not” (Titus 1:10-11). Then Paul says, “Wherefore rebuke them sharply” (Titus 1:13).

That is Scripture.

I rebuke you...am I not sharp enough??? The pretenders here think I'm too sharp.

This is not simply people “disagreeing on spiritual matters.” Episkopos has publicly said, “We are not individually saved by Christ's death,” when Scripture says, “being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him” (Romans 5:9). He has said God will give mercy to “NON-claimers,” while Scripture says, “He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life” (1 John 5:12).

That is false teaching about the gospel.

I tried explaining to you how that the blood of Jesus is not the dead corpse of Jesus...but His LIFE. The irony is that you quote me a verse that says exactly that and you think I'm the one needing correcting. You're a real piece of work...like a comedy act.

Paul did not tell believers to make peace with another gospel. He said, “If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed” (Galatians 1:9). Jude said we are to “earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints” (Jude 3).

That's why I try saving the indoctrinated ones...from being rejected on judgment day. But people like you have neither humility nor the fear of the Lord, not charity, nor honesty...and people could care less. So they deserve what's coming.

And 2 Timothy 2:24 does not overturn any of that. Yes, the servant of the Lord is not to be quarrelsome. But the same Paul repeatedly exposed false teachers, named them, warned the churches about them, and commanded that false teaching be stopped.

You are quarrelsome.

So if the staff wants to apply Titus correctly, then apply it to the man persistently teaching another gospel. After repeated correction, reject him.

Leave my thread, PLEASE! I reject you.

The Bible obviously does not use the modern word “ban” because internet forums did not exist, but on a Christian forum the practical application is not difficult to understand. If a man repeatedly teaches serious error about Christ and salvation after being warned, stop giving him a platform to keep spreading it.

Do not rebuke the people sounding the alarm while protecting the man causing the problem.

Why then do you do it? I am the one sounding the alarm here.

And every one of us, staff included, needs to remember this: “So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God” (Romans 14:12).

If this is supposed to be a Christian forum, then protect people from false teaching instead of telling the people exposing it to move on.

Well your empire seems to be crumbling. I don't think the "staff" here think you have the power of excommunication. Maybe they didn't get the memo?

The hypocrites here won't correct you because you are just like them...just on meth.

 

[Episkopos]

This is exactly the kind of teaching that sounds deep until you hold it up to the Bible.

You talk about different levels of peace, different depths in the Spirit, people standing on the edge of the kingdom, believers reaching a place where they are not sinning, and then some deeper prophetic level where a man finally sees the gospel in “FULL resolution.”

Show me that in Scripture.

Ask the Lord to show you that in reality....not just in bible words.

 

[TitusTwoWife]

@TitusTwoWife, you just quoted Titus 3:10 and then applied it to the wrong people.

Paul said, “A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject” (Titus 3:10). He did not say, “Tell the people exposing the heretic to be quiet while allowing the heretic to keep teaching.”

Read what Paul says just a chapter earlier about false teachers: “There are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers...whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not” (Titus 1:10-11). Then Paul says, “Wherefore rebuke them sharply” (Titus 1:13).

That is Scripture.

This is not simply people “disagreeing on spiritual matters.” Episkopos has publicly said, “We are not individually saved by Christ's death,” when Scripture says, “being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him” (Romans 5:9). He has said God will give mercy to “NON-claimers,” while Scripture says, “He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life” (1 John 5:12).

That is false teaching about the gospel.

Paul did not tell believers to make peace with another gospel. He said, “If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed” (Galatians 1:9). Jude said we are to “earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints” (Jude 3).

And 2 Timothy 2:24 does not overturn any of that. Yes, the servant of the Lord is not to be quarrelsome. But the same Paul repeatedly exposed false teachers, named them, warned the churches about them, and commanded that false teaching be stopped.

So if the staff wants to apply Titus correctly, then apply it to the man persistently teaching another gospel. After repeated correction, reject him.

The Bible obviously does not use the modern word “ban” because internet forums did not exist, but on a Christian forum the practical application is not difficult to understand. If a man repeatedly teaches serious error about Christ and salvation after being warned, stop giving him a platform to keep spreading it.

Do not rebuke the people sounding the alarm while protecting the man causing the problem.

And every one of us, staff included, needs to remember this: “So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God” (Romans 14:12).

If this is supposed to be a Christian forum, then protect people from false teaching instead of telling the people exposing it to move on.

Im afraid you've missed the point. I said nothing about which side has correct doctrine. The Scriptures were about knowing when to move on when the correction isn't landing.

 

[Grailhunter]

This is not a minor disagreement. You just said, “We are not individually saved by Christ’s death,” and then claimed God will give mercy to “NON-claimers.” Both statements directly contradict Scripture.

Paul says, “being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him” (Romans 5:9). Peter says we were redeemed “with the precious blood of Christ” (1 Peter 1:18-19). Revelation says Christ “redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation” (Revelation 5:9). That is people being redeemed by His blood, not merely some impersonal redemption of “the world.”

Yes, Romans 4:25 says Jesus “was raised again for our justification,” but the same verse says He “was delivered for our offences.” You are creating a division Scripture does not make. The cross and resurrection are not competing doctrines.

And your claim about God giving mercy to “NON-claimers” is even worse. “He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life” (1 John 5:12). “He that believeth not is condemned already” (John 3:18). “Neither is there salvation in any other” (Acts 4:12).

You are not correcting Lizbeth here. You are contradicting Paul, Peter, John, and Jesus Christ. Telling people they can receive saving mercy apart from having the Son, while denying that Christ’s blood saves individuals, is false teaching about the gospel itself.

Paul already gave the warning: “If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed” (Galatians 1:9).

Stop attacking people for believing what Scripture plainly says. Repent of teaching another gospel.

I am thinking Episkopos is some sort of Calvinist and does not believe in free-will. It is a corrupt belief. On the other hand we are all here talking about Christion theology. It is all fruitful because it is as important to know what is the wrong Gospel as it is to know the right Gospel.

Yeshua saves if we are willing. Be good and do good. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 2nd Corinthians 5:10
The Johnny Appleseed of Truth.

 

[Episkopos]

Im afraid you've missed the point. I said nothing about which side has correct doctrine. The Scriptures were about knowing when to move on when the correction isn't landing.

I don't know how many notice that people hound my threads with accusations and obfuscations from an OBVIOUS indoctrination...having no charity, honesty, humility or fear of God.

I rarely go to other threads, and never to argue with a person's position. Just like I would never go to a church service and disrupt it because I think they are teaching garbage. No, I just walk out. And I suggest that, unless people have a question or a humble challenge....they should get their ego fix somewhere else. I suggest to many here who hate reproof and rebuke...go to the "happy Thread". You can find the kind of comfort you are looking for there.

I don't expect many to understand the higher walk in holiness. But I do expect people to stop condemning the righteous.

 

[bdavidc]

You think you are in place of leadership over the international church? That just begins to show how mentally unstable you are. Are you in an institution? Do you abuse certain substances? You have a huge ego so I know you go to or have gone to a decoy church...and listened to pulpiteers that inflated you ego. But you should be speaking to yourself. You are the heretic. You can't hear anything deeper than what justifies you in your sin...just like so many here.


I rebuke you...am I not sharp enough??? The pretenders here think I'm too sharp.


I tried explaining to you how that the blood of Jesus is not the dead corpse of Jesus...but His LIFE. The irony is that you quote me a verse that says exactly that and you think I'm the one needing correcting. You're a real piece of work...like a comedy act.


That's why I try saving the indoctrinated ones...from being rejected on judgment day. But people like you have neither humility nor the fear of the Lord, not charity, nor honesty...and people could care less. So they deserve what's coming.


You are quarrelsome.


Leave my thread, PLEASE! I reject you.


Why then do you do it? I am the one sounding the alarm here.

Well your empire seems to be crumbling. I don't think the "staff" here think you have the power of excommunication. Maybe they didn't get the memo?

The hypocrites here won't correct you because you are just like them...just on meth.

You keep saying we are not individually saved by Christ’s death, and then you try to separate His blood from His sacrificial death. But Romans 5 says we are “justified by his blood” and then immediately says we were “reconciled to God by the death of his Son” (Romans 5:9-10). Scripture joins the blood and the death together. Your teaching pulls apart what God joined together.

That is contrary to the gospel Paul preached. “If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed” (Galatians 1:9).

You call the man exposing your error a heretic, mentally unstable, and “on meth,” while you yourself have been repeatedly confronted with Scripture and refuse the correction. Titus 3:10 says, “A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject.” Titus 1 says false teachers are “teaching things which they ought not” and commands, “rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith” (Titus 1:11, 13).

That is what Scripture says to do with serious doctrinal error. The Word is not confirming your teaching. It is exposing it.

You claim you are the one sounding the alarm, yet you reject anyone who shows that your teaching contradicts justification by the blood of Christ. And your claim about God giving saving mercy to “NON-claimers” does not survive 1 John 5:12: “He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.”

Stop dressing error in spiritual language and attacking the people who are holding you to the faith “which was once delivered unto the saints” (Jude 3).

The Bible has already settled this.

 

[Episkopos]

I am thinking Episkopos is some sort of Calvinist and does not believe in free-will. It is a corrupt belief. On the other hand we are all here talking about Christion theology. It is all fruitful because it is as important to know what is the wrong Gospel as it is to know the right Gospel.

Yeshua saves if we are willing. Be good and do good. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 2nd Corinthians 5:10
The Johnny Appleseed of Truth.

LOL What you and others here don't yet understand is that I teach as the bible teaches, that's why you don't understand me. Calvinism is only correct in regards to saints...not the righteous. The righteous could be described more from an Arminian perspective. But the truth holds both those extremes together.

What makes me wonder is that some here think I'm too inclusive...and others think I'm too exclusive. ...not realizing that as a follower of Christ.....I'm going to get the same kind of contradictory accusations leveled against me as Jesus did. So I'm in the best company possible. Those who condemn me do so to my benefit...but to their detriment.

 

[Grailhunter]

LOL What you and others here don't yet understand is that I teach as the bible teaches, that's why you don't understand me. Calvinism is only correct in regards to saints...not the righteous. The righteous could be described more from an Arminian perspective. But the truth holds both those extremes together.

What makes me wonder is that some here think I'm too inclusive...and others think I'm too exclusive. ...not realizing that as a follower of Christ.....I'm going to get the same kind of contradictory accusations leveled against me as Jesus did. So I'm in the best company possible. Those who condemn me do so to my benefit...but to their detriment.

What you teach is dead wrong. Simple as that. But I believe people need to see false teachers so they know what to beware of.

 

[bdavidc]

Im afraid you've missed the point. I said nothing about which side has correct doctrine. The Scriptures were about knowing when to move on when the correction isn't landing.

No, I am not missing the point. But I do think in biblical terms you may be missing the point.
I understand your point about knowing when to stop arguing with someone who will not receive correction. Scripture does say, “A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject” (Titus 3:10).

But here is the part that cannot be ignored: rejecting the false teacher does not mean Christians are commanded to remain silent while he continues publicly teaching error to everybody else.

Jude says, “ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints” (Jude 3). Paul says, “have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them” (Ephesians 5:11). Romans 16:17 says, “mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.”

So yes, there comes a point where I stop trying to convince Epi personally. But if he is still being allowed to publicly teach another gospel on a Christian forum, believers who know what Scripture says are not obligated to sit down and be quiet while other people read it.

At that point the purpose of answering changes. It is no longer about convincing him. It is about warning everybody else.

Paul told Titus that there were false teachers “whose mouths must be stopped” because they were “teaching things which they ought not” (Titus 1:11). If those responsible for this forum will not stop it, then do not expect Christians who recognize the error to pretend nothing is happening.

You can tell us to stop arguing with him personally. Fine. Scripture supports rejecting a man after repeated admonition.

But as long as he is given a public platform to keep teaching false doctrine about the gospel, there is still a biblical responsibility to mark it, expose it, and contend for the truth so others are not deceived.

People need to stop fooling themselves into thinking casual Christianity is biblical. It isn’t. When this life ends, we will answer for what we did and did not do. Just thinking one is saved doesn't mean we are; it is what comes out of our mouths that exposes who we are.

The cleanest way to end the endless argument is simple: stop giving persistent false teaching a Christian platform.

 

[bdavidc]

I don't know how many notice that people hound my threads with accusations and obfuscations from an OBVIOUS indoctrination...having no charity, honesty, humility or fear of God.

I rarely go to other threads, and never to argue with a person's position. Just like I would never go to a church service and disrupt it because I think they are teaching garbage. No, I just walk out. And I suggest that, unless people have a question or a humble challenge....they should get their ego fix somewhere else. I suggest to many here who hate reproof and rebuke...go to the "happy Thread". You can find the kind of comfort you are looking for there.

I don't expect many to understand the higher walk in holiness. But I do expect people to stop condemning the righteous.

This is not your private living room. Neither is YouTube nor any other public media. You are publicly teaching doctrine on a Christian forum. When false teaching is put out publicly, believers are not commanded to quietly walk away and leave others exposed to it. Jude says to “earnestly contend for the faith” (Jude 3), and Paul warned about men “speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them” (Acts 20:30).

You keep calling yourself righteous, talking about your “higher walk,” and then treating biblical correction like persecution. Scripture says, “Let another man praise thee, and not thine own mouth” (Proverbs 27:2). Your claims do not make you untouchable. They make your doctrine something that must be tested even more carefully.

And your doctrine keeps failing that test. You said individuals are not saved by Christ’s death, yet Romans 5:9-10 says we are “justified by his blood” and “reconciled to God by the death of his Son.” Stop telling people to leave your thread when they expose what you are teaching. If you teach error publicly, expect it to be rebuked publicly.

 

[Episkopos]

This is not your private living room. Neither is YouTube nor any other public media. You are publicly teaching doctrine on a Christian forum. When false teaching is put out publicly, believers are not commanded to quietly walk away and leave others exposed to it. Jude says to “earnestly contend for the faith” (Jude 3), and Paul warned about men “speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them” (Acts 20:30).

You keep calling yourself righteous, talking about your “higher walk,” and then treating biblical correction like persecution. Scripture says, “Let another man praise thee, and not thine own mouth” (Proverbs 27:2). Your claims do not make you untouchable. They make your doctrine something that must be tested even more carefully.

And your doctrine keeps failing that test. You said individuals are not saved by Christ’s death, yet Romans 5:9-10 says we are “justified by his blood” and “reconciled to God by the death of his Son.” Stop telling people to leave your thread when they expose what you are teaching. If you teach error publicly, expect it to be rebuked publicly.

Unlike people here, I don't claim to be righteous. When I speak of the righteous I'm speaking of the meek of the earth. I am just an unprofitable servant.

 

[TitusTwoWife]

I don't know how many notice that people hound my threads with accusations and obfuscations from an OBVIOUS indoctrination...having no charity, honesty, humility or fear of God.

I rarely go to other threads, and never to argue with a person's position. Just like I would never go to a church service and disrupt it because I think they are teaching garbage. No, I just walk out. And I suggest that, unless people have a question or a humble challenge....they should get their ego fix somewhere else. I suggest to many here who hate reproof and rebuke...go to the "happy Thread". You can find the kind of comfort you are looking for there.

I don't expect many to understand the higher walk in holiness. But I do expect people to stop condemning the righteous.

People don't seem to realize that they are lending you credit the more they relentlessly criticize. By being so determined, they're silently acknowledging you as a threat. That and so many notifications going to your thread reminding me of your content.

That's why they say there's no such thing as bad press.

That's just one reason why there's wisdom in a one-time sharp rebuke or correction versus doing so repeatedly.