Role of women in church and the household

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

RaddSpencer

New Member
Mar 28, 2008
285
0
0
44
(Red_Letters88;48438)
No Radd, I think I read it the correct way from her. I find that many many many females feel Pauls teachings should be changed- because it doesnt line up with todays society. Its not a matter of whos closer to God- its a matter of roles. Women were taken from man, for man. Not the other way around. Man is the IMAGe and glory of God, woman is the glory of man. Its a hard teaching for most females of our society to accept.
I don't agree with the part where she says that God is neither male nor female. However I do agree with her about women also being in God's image.I think you are misunderstanding the concept of image. For exampleIf someone took a picture of you -- they would be taking a 3D body, and crushing it down to 2 dimensions -- right?God did the same thing with humanity during the creation. He (being in an infinite amount of dimensions) "took a picture -- so to speak" and crushed Himself down to 4 dimensions. (and thus Adam came to life). This is why Adam and Eve carried on conversations with God in the garden. Two of them were finite versions (aka images) of the infinite God. This is why both women and men can know God and have a relationship. We are all made in God's image.
 

Wakka

Super Member
Jun 4, 2007
1,461
4
0
33
(RaddSpencer;48457)
I don't agree with the part where she says that God is neither male nor female. However I do agree with her about women also being in God's image.I think you are misunderstanding the concept of image. For exampleIf someone took a picture of you -- they would be taking a 3D body, and crushing it down to 2 dimensions -- right?God did the same thing with humanity during the creation. He (being in an infinite amount of dimensions) "took a picture -- so to speak" and crushed Himself down to 4 dimensions. (and thus Adam came to life). This is why Adam and Eve carried on conversations with God in the garden. Two of them were finite versions (aka images) of the infinite God. This is why both women and men can know God and have a relationship. We are all made in God's image.
I read somewhere that it's not the physical image, but the image of God's soul. Yet again, Jesus was a Man, and we look like Jesus (who is God).
 

koulourakia_girl

New Member
Apr 21, 2008
44
0
0
43
(RaddSpencer;48368)
Other than calling Himself "He" in the bible and the three parts of the trinity being:Father:Son:Holy Spirit:When God decided to dwell among us. He decided to be the SON of Man as well as the SON of God.http://christiananswers.net/q-eden/son-of-man.htmlHe came to earth as a man. He could have chosen to be either sex right. However, He decided to be male rather than female. He didn't have both genitalia either. This is significant, and it has to do with His desire towards the church.
God is pure Spirit. He is not a physical being. He is beyond the distinction of gender. There are reasons that masculine pronouns are used throughout to designate God...and the fact that Jesus came as a MAN does not necessitate God Himself being male....Jesus came as a Man, and not a Woman because of the hierarchy that was put in place after the Fall....The Son coming was the logical step....the fact does not have anything to do with God's gender.I never said God had both genitalia! God has neither! He's beyond the physical! God exists without sexual distinction. Judaism has always maintained that God has what are, at times, referred to as both masculine and feminine Attributes – although He is beyond both distinctions. God is no more male than a table or chair, both of which are masculine nouns....and it should also be noted that Hebrew does not have a 'neuter' voice, only Masc and Fem....and to totally understand the non-genderness of God, one only need look to the creation of haAdam....prior to the creation of Woman.
 

koulourakia_girl

New Member
Apr 21, 2008
44
0
0
43
(Red_Letters88;48438)
No Radd, I think I read it the correct way from her. I find that many many many females feel Pauls teachings should be changed- because it doesnt line up with todays society. Its not a matter of whos closer to God- its a matter of roles. Women were taken from man, for man. Not the other way around. Man is the IMAGe and glory of God, woman is the glory of man. Its a hard teaching for most females of our society to accept.
Wow...if I only had five cents every time accused me of being a 'feminist'....man I'd be rich! The main mistake so many people make when reading Scripture, is to understand that the New Testament, in particular, are letters to particular new Churches.....there are things to be found within those pages that are not universal statements, but contextual statements. To read certain verses in the light you are implying, would make Paul a hypocrite.Woman in the glory of Man - and she's also in the glory of God. This statement is talking about social hierarchy, not creation.
 

koulourakia_girl

New Member
Apr 21, 2008
44
0
0
43
(kriss;48439)
The problem here is that instead of really understanding what these verses mean we tend to read them with an assumption In every flesh body resides the true soul/spirit of the person the flesh means little the fact woman was made from man gives her a different role in the flesh notice I said differnt not less important her spirit/soul is the same value as a mans. Men were given certain attributes women others it is for this reason when they become one (as in marriage)they are whole. Man is supposed to be over woman but he is also supposed to conduct himself like Christ.
Kriss, I love you lol you hit the nmail right on the head...I think people are misunderstanding what I'm saying on here...I am totally understanding the social structure (man over woman) that God has put in place due to Eve's act of disobedience, however, I do believe that there are way too many people out there who are mis-reading some of Paul's statements, out of context, and without looking at what he PRACTISED...Man and Woman are different, but they are both created in God's Image (not physical Image though). They have their own special tasks and gifts, attributed to each gender, and when they come together and form one flesh, together, with those different attributes, they comprise the whole structural "Image" of God! It's that simple!
 

treeoflife

New Member
Apr 30, 2008
601
0
0
41
(koulourakia_girl;48501)
Kriss, I love you lol you hit the nmail right on the head...I think people are misunderstanding what I'm saying on here...I am totally understanding the social structure (man over woman) that God has put in place due to Eve's act of disobedience, however, I do believe that there are way too many people out there who are mis-reading some of Paul's statements, out of context, and without looking at what he PRACTISED...Man and Woman are different, but they are both created in God's Image (not physical Image though). They have their own special tasks and gifts, attributed to each gender, and when they come together and form one flesh, together, with those different attributes, they comprise the whole structural "Image" of God! It's that simple!
Right. The roll of a woman is not less important. What the woman offers is necessary... because God wouldn't create what is not necessary (with purpose). I don't think God would create something that didn't have a purpose behind it. In this case... he made man and woman. For some purpose, He also made man first... and woman second. So the same God that gives us purpose, purposed to make the man first. Not in importance, but in authority and leadership.The hidden belief (sometimes not so much) of a man who thinks he is more important than his wife... is that he thinks his wife doesn't have a purpose. This is obviously due to a lack of caring or knowledge about God's heart or purpose. He thinks that her reason for being is simply please him (the only one with real purpose) when he wants pleased and how he wants pleased (I don't just mean sexually).Fact is, women and men are equally important, just not in authority. Leadership is one of man's purposes... and I thank God that He saw our need to authority ahead of time. We fight about it enough as it is!Think about it... what if God didn't give man command of leadership? Don't we bicker about those sorts of things enough? If we could never go to God's Word and settle it... we would be endlessly debating who should make the decision, and it would be based of experience and opinion... oh what a mess. I'm glad that God laid it out there for us.
smile.gif
 

Wakka

Super Member
Jun 4, 2007
1,461
4
0
33
(koulourakia_girl;48500)
Wow...if I only had five cents every time accused me of being a 'feminist'....man I'd be rich! The main mistake so many people make when reading Scripture, is to understand that the New Testament, in particular, are letters to particular new Churches.....there are things to be found within those pages that are not universal statements, but contextual statements. To read certain verses in the light you are implying, would make Paul a hypocrite.Woman in the glory of Man - and she's also in the glory of God. This statement is talking about social hierarchy, not creation.
How about the fact that in the Bible God is referred to Him. God did write the Bible anyway. >.>Also, every time God appeared on earth, He was a male.
 

Jackie D

New Member
Mar 15, 2008
420
1
0
57
Yesterday, 08:27 AM treeoflife
It is important that there is order of rule, and the husband is the leader. I should love my wife, at all times, and at all times she should submit to my leadership. If this is done, what can go wrong? I believe it was said that Sarah purified herself by following Abraham's lead? Even when he was taking her into danger? I cannot recall the specific verse, but if someone else can... by all means.
I don't disagree with you here tol, however I think it is really important for us to remember the proper role of leadership by a pastor or a husband. Paul stated husbands love your wifes as Christ loves the church. Christ leads the church by example, not domination. (not saying you said this or even think this) but there are many who look at the roles of leadership within the church and marriage as being set by the spoken word verses the unspoken words of example setting. I can tell you all that it will be a very cold day when I submit to either a pastor or a man for that matter who rules (leads) without living the very way he asks or expects others to do. A good leader will be exactly as he expects others to be and those who are under his leadership will with glad hearts follow in the footsteps of that leader. Just as we who love Christ strive to follow Him by the example He placed before us. A soft, tender, gentle, kind, patient and compassionate man will get my attention and hold it. I will submit willingly to man when man is this way, just as Christ was. This is the right way to be for men and women, like Christ and His church/bride.Yesterday, 02:12 PM Red_Letters88
Tell Paul hes wrong, then write your own bible.1 Corinthians 11:7-10:7A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. 8For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; 9neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. 10For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head.
Now I love Paul and what he taught and believe that what Paul received was divinely inspired by God. I must say however that it is important to remember the customs of the time and place when Paul spoke this. Just as I believe that the reasons for Paul's teaching of roles, leadership and submission had everything to do with the times as well. We need to remember that during these days, women were nothing. They were no better than livestock in many ways. They had no voice and they too were hungry for the word of God. They had to teaching of etiquette regarding services, they wanted answers and they wanted them now. There was a lot of chaos during the ministery teachings and order needed to be maintained. I don't believe in anyway, that Paul was stating for all time women were to be seen and not heard, but that they were to maintain a modecum of respect and order during service so that all could benefit from the teaching of that moment. There are too many examples of women in leadership roles throughout the bible for me to believe that God intends for women to sit on the sidelines and gleen from their husbands or pastors when women were given brains and ability to learn and teach as well. The true sign of Authority over the head of the woman is Christ. Not man, man is man and will fall short everytime. I tell you now that if the Lord ever saw it fitting for me to lead, I would not turn it away or hand it over to my husband. I'm not a women's lib fanatic, I am a woman of God...it is God who commands the actions of men and women, we would all do well to remember this. Paul's teaching was not incomplete or inaccurate regarding these matters, but they were targeted for those days as someone else clearly stated. The letters of Paul's were to the new church to bring peace and tranquility for God is both of those. Down through the generations these things have been learned and there is no reason why they can't remain so even if the leader is a woman.blessings
 

RaddSpencer

New Member
Mar 28, 2008
285
0
0
44
(koulourakia_girl;48499)
God is pure Spirit. He is not a physical being. He is beyond the distinction of gender. I never said God had both genitalia! God has neither! He's beyond the physical! God exists without sexual distinction.
Not really. Are you saying that Jesus isn't God? He is not ONLY Spirit."And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."John 1:14"Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:"Whether we like it or not. Jesus Christ portrays Himself, as a guy. And He is the great "I am".Jesus has appeared to the old-testament patriarchs, once again, as a guy.To Abraham: Gen 19To Jacob: Gen 32:24-32 24Then Jacob was left alone, and a man wrestled with him until daybreak. 25When he saw that he had not prevailed against him, he touched the socket of his thigh; so the socket of Jacob's thigh was dislocated while he wrestled with him. 26Then he said, "Let me go, for the dawn is breaking." But he said, "©I will not let you go unless you bless me." 27So he said to him, "What is your name?" And he said, "Jacob." 28(D)He said, "Your name shall no longer be Jacob, but Israel; for you have striven with God and with men and have prevailed." 29Then Jacob asked him and said, "Please tell me your name." But he said, "Why is it that you ask my name?" And he blessed him there. 30So Jacob named the place Peniel, for he said, "I have seen God face to face, yet my life has been preserved." 31Now the sun rose upon him just as he crossed over Penuel, and he was limping on his thigh. 32Therefore, to this day the sons of Israel do not eat the sinew of the hip which is on the socket of the thigh, because he touched the socket of Jacob's thigh in the sinew of the hip. Jacob wrestled with a strong, male opponent. Who just happened to be God.
 

treeoflife

New Member
Apr 30, 2008
601
0
0
41
(Jackie D;48514)
I can tell you all that it will be a very cold day when I submit to either a pastor or a man for that matter who rules (leads) without living the very way he asks or expects others to do. A good leader will be exactly as he expects others to be and those who are under his leadership will with glad hearts follow in the footsteps of that leader. Just as we who love Christ strive to follow Him by the example He placed before us. A soft, tender, gentle, kind, patient and compassionate man will get my attention and hold it. I will submit willingly to man when man is this way, just as Christ was. This is the right way to be for men and women, like Christ and His church/bride.
Maybe you should move to Iowa... we have very cold days here.
smile.gif
Really, we are talking about a husband so... as far as husbands are concerned, I believe it is best to respect and submit to him regardless of how he is acting. There are extremes, where a husband is doing things to you that may end your life, or is being sexually unfaithful... and then we can talk about those. However, for everything else... I think I ought to love my wife regardless of what she is doing, and likewise she ought to respect me regardless of what I am doing (or what we think the other is doing).Your husband might say, "Well, it will be a cold day before I love the woman who won't respect and submit to me like she should."You then say, "Well, it will be a cold day before I respect and submit to a man who won't love me like he should."You are now in a deadlock. Someone will have to die to themselves in order to move on. So, how do we decide who it should be? The answer is whoever is more spiritual. We don't love because we are loved, or respect because we are respected. We do what is right because God tells us it is right, and we are accountable to him for our own actions, not the actions of others.Fact is, I have to love my wife in spite of how she is respecting me or honoring, or submitting to me. If I say, "She really isn't respecting me today... I'm going to stop loving her." I have now become the offender. Whereas before I was blameless, now I am not. I made a promise to God to do that and I need to love her, really in spite of herself. What she is or isn't doing is inconsequential. I made a promise, and I am accountable to my own word, to God Himself, that I will love her.It goes both ways too. So then... should the wife first respect and submit to their husband first? Or, should the husband love and protect his wife first? Who should be the first one to keep their promise? Well, I guess the answer is whoever is more spiritual, and whoever is more obedient to God.Sarah is an excellent example of this.
 

Jackie D

New Member
Mar 15, 2008
420
1
0
57
(treeoflife;48516)
Maybe you should move to Iowa... we have very cold days here.
smile.gif
I'm not saying we shouldn't use descernment, but the example we have of Sarah is not what you just suggested.Your husband might say, "Well, it will be a cold day before I love the woman who won't respect and submit to me like she should."You then say, "Well, it will be a cold day before I respect and submit to a man who won't love me like he should."You are now in a deadlock. We don't love because we are loved, or respect because we are respected. We do what is right because God tells us it is right, and we are accountable to him for our own actions, not the actions of others.
REALLY? How many times do we hear I love Christ because He first loved me? I could not have loved Him had He not wooed me and patiently drew me toward Him. I have a husband and I submit to my husband, because I love and respect him because he loves and respects me. The word submit is often misused (as your posts also confirm) as a means of control and manipulation verses by living example as Christ performed and performs today. I submit to Christ because I respect Him, but you know what? He respects me and treats me with respect in every way....So I have to disagree, I could no more (willingly and with a glad heart as I should) submit to Christ, man, employer or anyone else for that matter if they did not respect me. Respect is earned and it is earned through the consistent showing of integrity, patience, compassion and the willingness to perform the very deeds that are being asked of me, just as Christ did/does and just as my husband does. That is not to say that I will go around being willful and disobedient because someone is not showing me respect for I understand that to get through life we must do things we don't like to do and be around people we really have no liking or respect for. I can tell you this much though. I don't do it for them, I do it for the Lord as that is what He asks of me and I love and respect Him.
Fact is, I have to love my wife in spite of how she is respecting me or honoring, or submitting to me. I made a promise to God to do that and I need to love her, really in spite of herself. What she is or isn't doing is inconsequential. I made a promise, and I am accountable to my own word, to God Himself, that I will love her.
Rightly so. There is much to be said for a man who sees this and is obedient to the Lord in this way. You are rare in this world and your wife is very fortunate. We are all accountable to our word. The things I know about this topic have come from the teaching of God through His guidance and through my husband. The husband God chose for me, is the most submissive man to God and the order of family that I have ever in all of my life seen. I have much love and respect for him. When we first met I watched him very closely though, for the title "man of God" and the "role of women" have been used as tools of control and manipulation against me many times and I was not nor am I about to fall so easily into the trap of the enemy to attempt to destroy what God has built up in me. Does that make sense to you? We are to submit yes, but we are not to be fools and anyone who would blindly follow without testing the spirit of someone and watching closesly their fruits is being very very foolish.
It goes both ways too. So then... should the wife first respect and submit to their husband first? Or, should the husband love and protect his wife first? Who should be the first one to keep their promise? Well, I guess the answer is whoever is more spiritual, and whoever is more obedient to God.
God places gifts and responsiblity how He places it. Both men and women are responsible to keep these promises, I don't worry that my husband is not keeping his word to the Lord or to me, nor does he worry if I am for we know one another and are secure in our relationship regarding all that you have brought up.blessings
 

Hope

New Member
May 5, 2008
21
0
0
58
Hello!!I am new around here. I have read the post and I just wanted to share some information with all of you.Isaiah 30 1 Woe to the rebellious children, saith the LORD, that take counsel, but not of me; and that cover with a covering (4541), but not of my spirit, that they may add sin to sin: There is a lot of wisdom in that verse, for those with "eyes to see".Word COVERING #4541 (Strong's Hebrew Lexicon), maccekah mas-say-kaw' from 5258; properly, a pouring over, i.e. fusion of metal (especially a cast image); by implication, a libation, i.e. league; concretely a coverlet (as if poured out):--covering, molten (image), vailNow, over Corinthia it was common for women to cover their heads. But why?. It was a way of saying that they where not available. But on the other hand, some men were getting instrucctions from Jews who practiced Judaísm. That is why 1 Corinthians 11:7 says: "For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man". Let see something more:Genesis 126 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.If you did not understand yet, as it is, I am sure in time you will.Now, did women shaved their? YES!. Why? It had to do with paganism and prostitution. Maybe you would like to learn a little more.(I cannot post links yet, but I will post them next time)You may also be able to learn from history that some women would go into the church claiming they spoke "in languages" and claiming they could "prophesy" because they wanted to be like Pythia. In a way they thought they would get "respect" from man. Romans 122 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
 

Christina

New Member
Apr 10, 2006
10,885
101
0
15
I Corinthians 11:1 "Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ."Paul is telling us to be followers of him, and in the Greek tongue it is "mimetes" (Strong's #3402) from which we get the English world "imitators". Paul is giving us the details of how we are to act under all conditions, and he himself follows these words. Now he is telling us to do them also. I Corinthians 11:2 "Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you."The word "ordinances" in the Greek text is "paradosis, and it is always translated as traditions elsewhere that it is used. It has been used twelve other times in Paul's letters and this is the only place that it is called ordinances. Paul is urging us to follow the real true Christian traditions, such as Passover, and we are to keep them. I Corinthians 11:3 "But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God."This is a chain of order to things as God would have it for our lives. At the top is God, and the order of obedience is woman to man, man to Christ and Christ to the Father God. As woman and man are used in this verse, it is in reference to a husband and wife relationship. It is talking about a marriage tie, and all men that are in Christ are part of the bride of Christ. Remember what God said in Genesis:Genesis 2:21 "And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and He took one of his ribs, and close up the flesh instead thereof;"Adam was made in the image of God, and the angels, however, Adam is about to have surgery to change something. Does this mean that man is one rib short? Of course not. The word "rib" in the Hebrew text is "tsela", and Strong's Hebrew dictionary # 6763 says it is from the prime root, #6760, "to curve". What that surgery did has many people guessing, However, we know that Eve was formed from something from Adam taken in that surgery. Now days we know this was most likely DNAGenesis 2:24 "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh."As a man and woman replenish the earth, they both become one flesh through their offspring. Spiritually they are one flesh anyway, for "what God has brought together, let no man put assunder." The greatest gift that God gave to man, was a woman to be his helpmate. They are not one spirit, for they are still separate spirits, two souls, but only one flesh. At the death of one of the souls, they no longer are tied together as one flesh and the bond of the flesh is separated. The living may marry and become one flesh with another mate of the other sex. God is very much against those who would pervert this bond and join male to male and female to female, for that bonding of sodomy is an abomination to the Lord. Remember that the reason for the bonding into one flesh is to replenish the earth. To have children and raise a family. The two ways to remarry with the blessings of God, is by death under the old law, or by repentance under the present. It is the "law of liberty" set forth within Jesus Christ.
 

bullfighter

New Member
Jan 21, 2008
269
0
0
64
(kriss;48528)
I Corinthians 11:1 "Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ."Paul is telling us to be followers of him, and in the Greek tongue it is "mimetes" (Strong's #3402) from which we get the English world "imitators". Paul is giving us the details of how we are to act under all conditions, and he himself follows these words. Now he is telling us to do them also. I Corinthians 11:2 "Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you."The word "ordinances" in the Greek text is "paradosis, and it is always translated as traditions elsewhere that it is used. It has been used twelve other times in Paul's letters and this is the only place that it is called ordinances. Paul is urging us to follow the real true Christian traditions, such as Passover, and we are to keep them. I Corinthians 11:3 "But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God."This is a chain of order to things as God would have it for our lives. At the top is God, and the order of obedience is woman to man, man to Christ and Christ to the Father God. As woman and man are used in this verse, it is in reference to a husband and wife relationship. It is talking about a marriage tie, and all men that are in Christ are part of the bride of Christ. Remember what God said in Genesis:Genesis 2:21 "And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and He took one of his ribs, and close up the flesh instead thereof;"Adam was made in the image of God, and the angels, however, Adam is about to have surgery to change something. Does this mean that man is one rib short? Of course not. The word "rib" in the Hebrew text is "tsela", and Strong's Hebrew dictionary # 6763 says it is from the prime root, #6760, "to curve". What that surgery did has many people guessing, However, we know that Eve was formed from something from Adam taken in that surgery. Now days we know this was most likely DNAGenesis 2:24 "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh."As a man and woman replenish the earth, they both become one flesh through their offspring. Spiritually they are one flesh anyway, for "what God has brought together, let no man put assunder." The greatest gift that God gave to man, was a woman to be his helpmate. They are not one spirit, for they are still separate spirits, two souls, but only one flesh. At the death of one of the souls, they no longer are tied together as one flesh and the bond of the flesh is separated. The living may marry and become one flesh with another mate of the other sex. God is very much against those who would pervert this bond and join male to male and female to female, for that bonding of sodomy is an abomination to the Lord. Remember that the reason for the bonding into one flesh is to replenish the earth. To have children and raise a family. The two ways to remarry with the blessings of God, is by death under the old law, or by repentance under the present. It is the "law of liberty" set forth within Jesus Christ.
that people pick and choose there verses to stand .on then they some way or another invalidate other clear verses.i hope you all do the love of god to each other and not just when you think someone deserves it.love your enemy .it says submit not if.and this remarry thing you might as well thro the bible out if you go around making up your own words.we can live in sin everyday if we remarry when our first spouce is still alive and be forgived .but it does not say we can go get married over and over again with our spouces alive ..[and where does it say woman should talk in the church]
 

Christina

New Member
Apr 10, 2006
10,885
101
0
15
Now you must rightly divide the Word here the subject changes hereI Corinthians 11:4 "Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head."Many people by their tradition say this refers to hair. However, what this is talking about in the word "veil", is a spiritual veil. Man and his wife are two in one flesh body, but the spiritual body of the man needs no covering. The reason is that man does not need protection from the subject that Paul is about to enter in this chapter. Remember this chapter is addressing the end times, and in the end times Satan and the angels will be right here on earth. Revelation 12:9 "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."Those angels that are going to be cast out with Satan onto the earth are male in origin for they are in angelic form. They are not human as you and I are, but spiritual and angelic in form. That "veil" that separates them from us is Christ Himself. So, in other words, if some man is standing up and preaching the Word, and one of these angels come along, we are to take the power and authority and throw them out. I Corinthians 11:5 "But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven."For a woman to be "shaven" is a mark of "xurao" in the Greek and it shows mourning or shame. When a woman is standing up and teaching God's Word, she should be bold and forthright and not as one in shame. This is where Paul is saying that if a woman is speaking out in the congregation, and she is prophesying, then let her speak boldly. Paul is saying that a woman can speak out in church and teach, but let her do it with authority and understanding. Lets look at the word "prophesieth" as it is in the Strong's concordance. It is # 4395 in the Strong's Greek dictionary. "propheteuo, from 4396, to foretell events, divine, speak under inspiration, to exercise the prophetic office." You ladies, don't you ever let some one verse Charlie who is trying to protect his job tell you that women are not to teach and prophesy in church. Just by stating such a thing, he is showing you his ignorance of the Word. God made it very clear that in the final generation both sons daughters will prophesy. It happened on the day of Pentecost, and Peter stated that what those in Jerusalem were seeing was a sample of what Joel the prophet was talking about in Joel 2:28, 29.The whole idea that "woman were to remain silent in church" came from the traditional thought that "woman chatter all the time", well pal, if you haven't noticed, so do men. It is time to stop chattering in church no matter if you are a man or woman. When God's Word is being taught that is not a time for anyone to chatter, but a time to pay attention. So why would one sex feel so weak that they must cut another sex down for doing the same thing that they are doing. Why are men so weak that they must feel afraid of a woman speaking under the inspiration of the Almighty God, through the Son, through the veil. God does use the ladies to teach His Word under the anointing and the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, under the veil of our our Lord Jesus Christ.It is God that gives the gifts to both men and women, and if God has given a gift to a woman then no man has the right to prevent that person from using that gift to the glory of God. If a woman has the gift of teaching and prophesying, then it is that woman's duty to God to use that gift and teach. To force her to keep silent and not speak is to hinder the work of God from going forward. No matter how high you think that you are in your denomination, if you try to take that gift away from anyone that God has placed within that woman, is to bring down God's curses on your head. We are living in a generation where you had better stop playing church anymore. I Corinthians 11:6 "For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered."When Jesus Christ returns to this earth at the seventh trumpet, He is coming back for His bride. The "bride of Christ" takes in both genders, male and female, man and woman. Once again keep this in the proper text, for it is not right for any of "the bride of Christ" to speak when they are not covered in the "veil", Which is the wisdom of His Word. If a woman does not have that veil of Christ over her, then it is a sign that she is going through a very bad time. It is a time of mourning and if you decide that you were going to teach God's Word without the veil of Christ and His wisdom in your mind, it would be a sad thing also. I Corinthians 11:7 "For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man."The woman is the glory of man, for his wife is the best gift that any man can receive. God created man and woman whereby the man and his wife become one. Without that oneness in the bonding of your marriage, you are not a whole, but only a half a person. However on a deeper level here, Christ is the groom, and the His church is the woman. In as much as Christ is the warrior, spiritually speaking, He is the head and the one that gives His bride direction. But at the same time, from the very beginning it is given that the man is to protect the woman when there is danger present. Many times however the woman knows how to protect herself very well. I Corinthians 11:8 "For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man."I Corinthians 11:9 "Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man."This is not aimed to put superiority in this, but the man and the woman were created as a team to work together. God created each for the other. The woman was created for for the man, and the man for the protections and well being of the woman.
 

Christina

New Member
Apr 10, 2006
10,885
101
0
15
I Corinthians 11:10 "For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels."It is for this reason that the woman ought to have the power, which is the authority of that God gives to each of us, when we are in Christ. This again is written to the end generation, and our power and authority come from the Word of God. That knowledge and wisdom that is in the Word of God is where our power comes from, and we must have that wisdom in our mind or we will not stand in the day of the deception. This goes way back to Genesis 6, and it pertains to what the angels did when they came to earth. It was for this reason that the flood of Noah came to be, for Satan could not destroy the Seed, so he tried to destroy the coming of Christ through Eve's daughters. Genesis 6:1 "And it came to pass, when the men began to multiply one the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,"So the subject that we are trying to learn is why does a woman today ever have to protect herself from angels? Got the subject here? Daughters are born to men.Genesis 6:2 "That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.""Sons of God" are the "Nephilim" or "fallen angels". They are the angels that have committed themselves to Satan in his fall in the first earth age. These fallen angels saw that the daughters of flesh men were very beautiful, and they wanted to take them for their wives. Remember that flesh man was created from the dust of the earth, and the woman was created just like the man, also from the dust of the earth as a companion for each other. These fallen angels sought to have the things of flesh man, and their experiences of marriage, without being born of woman. Angels are supernatural beings of a different form and dimension, and these fallen angels took for themselves the daughters that they wanted. This went directly against God's plan of our flesh age. They have the power and the supernatural wisdom to take what they wanted from flesh man. Genesis 6:3 "And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years." Remember that in Adams day the life span of man was set at one thousand years, and now God has shortened that life span to one hundred and twenty years. Why? Because of what was happening to flesh man that God had created. The human race was now becoming hybrids of half flesh man, and half angelic. Genesis 6:4 "There were (giants) in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same become mighty men which were of old, men of renown."These "Giants", or Nephyil" as stated in the Hebrew text, were the offspring of the fallen angels [Nephilim], and the offspring that were born through these daughters of flesh man are called the "children" in the translation to English, but in the Strong's Hebrew dictionary there is no number given. This is because these offspring of the union between the fallen angels and the daughters of men could not be labeled in the category of human children. These creature offspring did exist, and the sexual union is possible.
 

RaddSpencer

New Member
Mar 28, 2008
285
0
0
44
(kriss;48531)
NThe whole idea that "woman were to remain silent in church" came from the traditional thought that "woman chatter all the time", well pal, if you haven't noticed, so do men. It is time to stop chattering in church no matter if you are a man or woman. When God's Word is being taught that is not a time for anyone to chatter, but a time to pay attention. So why would one sex feel so weak that they must cut another sex down for doing the same thing that they are doing. Why are men so weak that they must feel afraid of a woman speaking under the inspiration of the Almighty God, through the Son, through the veil. God does use the ladies to teach His Word under the anointing and the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, under the veil of our our Lord Jesus Christ.
HEHEHE, well I don't know about that but uh.I've noticed that women in this thread have the idea that church is so male dominated that it isn't even funny. I disagree with that. Every church that I have attended (on the mainland US) seems to be overwhelmingly female-dominated.1. There are more women2. The music is "girly-man" music
biggrin.gif
3. The sermons seem heartfeltI don't know, maybe I am not seeing it right. But it seems like church is more welcoming to women than men.
 

Christina

New Member
Apr 10, 2006
10,885
101
0
15
(RaddSpencer;48545)
HEHEHE, well I don't know about that but uh.I've noticed that women in this thread have the idea that church is so male dominated that it isn't even funny. I disagree with that. Every church that I have attended (on the mainland US) seems to be overwhelmingly female-dominated.1. There are more women2. The music is "girly-man" music
biggrin.gif
3. The sermons seem heartfeltI don't know, maybe I am not seeing it right. But it seems like church is more welcoming to women than men.
Maybe Im judging by my husband he's worse than any teen age girl
smile.gif
only difference is he says its important stuff he chatters about
 

RaddSpencer

New Member
Mar 28, 2008
285
0
0
44
(Jackie D;48517)
REALLY? How many times do we hear I love Christ because He first loved me? I could not have loved Him had He not wooed me and patiently drew me toward Him. I have a husband and I submit to my husband, because I love and respect him because he loves and respects me. The word submit is often misused (as your posts also confirm) as a means of control and manipulation verses by living example as Christ performed and performs today. I submit to Christ because I respect Him, but you know what? He respects me and treats me with respect in every way....So I have to disagree, I could no more (willingly and with a glad heart as I should) submit to Christ, man, employer or anyone else for that matter if they did not respect me. Respect is earned and it is earned through the consistent showing of integrity, patience, compassion and the willingness to perform the very deeds that are being asked of me, just as Christ did/does and just as my husband does. That is not to say that I will go around being willful and disobedient because someone is not showing me respect for I understand that to get through life we must do things we don't like to do and be around people we really have no liking or respect for. I can tell you this much though. I don't do it for them, I do it for the Lord as that is what He asks of me and I love and respect Him. Rightly so. There is much to be said for a man who sees this and is obedient to the Lord in this way. You are rare in this world and your wife is very fortunate. We are all accountable to our word. The things I know about this topic have come from the teaching of God through His guidance and through my husband. The husband God chose for me, is the most submissive man to God and the order of family that I have ever in all of my life seen. I have much love and respect for him. When we first met I watched him very closely though, for the title "man of God" and the "role of women" have been used as tools of control and manipulation against me many times and I was not nor am I about to fall so easily into the trap of the enemy to attempt to destroy what God has built up in me. Does that make sense to you? We are to submit yes, but we are not to be fools and anyone who would blindly follow without testing the spirit of someone and watching closesly their fruits is being very very foolish. God places gifts and responsiblity how He places it. Both men and women are responsible to keep these promises, I don't worry that my husband is not keeping his word to the Lord or to me, nor does he worry if I am for we know one another and are secure in our relationship regarding all that you have brought up.blessings
I think you are being too hard on us guys. I don't know who you have been talking to (or which guy(s) have/has mistreated you), but most guys aren't interested in controlling their wives like a Radio Controlled Car.I mean, come on, why does your husband have to do everything first? Why does he have to submit to God fully before you submit to him? Why can't you teach your husband how to obey God by obeying him? If you obey him, and he is disobedient to God --- he will end up feeling like a heel and change his ways. I've seen this attitude in a lot of women. The husband has to do everything right and earn respect etc... before the wife even considers obedience. This just places a heavy load on the husband, and I don't think that is fair. Maybe women should have some initiative too.Its only fair if both the husband and wife learn how to lead and follow (respectively) at the same time.
 

koulourakia_girl

New Member
Apr 21, 2008
44
0
0
43
I don't think it is so much a matter of Paul writing in a particular time, but we must look at the context in which these particular statements were written.....These early churches that Paul was 'suckling' were fraught with problems...false interpretation, disorder (particularly amongst the women who were enjoying and abusing their newly-found freedom) etc etc....these are pictures that we get when we examine each of the letters - we can see the internal problems within each of those Churches...when Paul makes statements about Women (and also other things), he is not making a blank, universal statement, but a contextual one...one that is aimed at resolving these problems. Remember these books were originally "letters" to those Churches.....Whilst it is certainly biblical for a woman to conduct herself with modesty etc etc, one must read these passages in light of context....God being Male: What is Spirit then? Spirit has no distinction. It is beyond anything we could ever comprehend...The only way in which we can know God the Father is through the ways in which He reveals Himself to us...whether it be through His Son, The Spirit, The Word, His appearances...remember Moses' experience, when he begged God to show him His Glory...all Moses got was the back view as God passed by, for no man can see His face and live. To see God in His pure form, is to be in the Spirit yourself. God may appear in any form He wishes...the fact that He has always manifested Himself, come down to us, in a male form, does NOT mean that He is essentially male! We are talking Spirit here, not physical terms....When we are told that "God is Spirit", what do you take that to mean? I take it to mean that God, in His essential form, is beyond anything we could possibly understand on our own, or from experience....We, as human beings, have that spiritual aspect to us, but we also have a physical component. God is pure Spirit...or are you saying that He is also both? That is illogical. I think you're compounding the idea of the Trinity into one single being...whilst they are one, they are also three distinct and seperate personalities....Three different and specific ways in which God is 'manifested' (I know that's not the right word, but I'm not feeling too well).