ROMANS 3:28 JUSTIFIED BY FAITH

[reformed1689]

Paul applies because as I stated:
Yes it would if the "great commission" was given to the church today, the body of Christ, but nowhere does Paul apply this to the church in his epistles. We are ambassadors for Christ according to 2 Corinthians 5:20 and have the word of reconciliation.

The "great commission" was given to the eleven disciples to obey not the body of Christ or Paul would have given commands from Christ for the church to obey it.

It was given to the 11 disciples and us because they were to command us to observe them. The fact that you can't grasp this astounds me. Paul's epistles have nothing to do with this conversation and whether or not the GC applies to us today. Just admit you are wrong and move on.

 

[Doug]

It was given to the 11 disciples and us because they were to command us to observe them. The fact that you can't grasp this astounds me. Paul's epistles have nothing to do with this conversation and whether or not the GC applies to us today. Just admit you are wrong and move on.

You say:
"It was given to the 11 disciples and us because they were to command us to observe them."

You are mixing up the Gentile nations in the 1000year kingdom on earth with the Gentiles today. They were to be a light to the Gentiles and teach the Gentiles in the Davidic kingdom.

Just saying Paul does not apply does not negate the fact that it most certainly does; show me in his epistles to the body where we are to fulfil the "great commission" .....or in fact show me in the gospels where the body of Christ was even formed.

 

[justbyfaith]

Let me respectfully answer you.

Please look at this verse:
Luke 18:22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

If this is to be applied to you you would have to obey and sell all you have. Have you sold all and if not why not?

Because scripture interprets scripture. And the load is lightened elsewhere:

1Ti 6:17, Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;
1Ti 6:18, That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;
1Ti 6:19, Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

Which is not to say that I am wealthy by any standard. Compared to most people in the United States I am dirt poor. But compared to people in third-world countries I am actually quite wealthy.

I have left everything behind to follow Him on not a few occasions; I was considered to have a mental illness because of it. And also, the people in my family prayed that I would return and because of that, I am back with them and the possessions that I had before.

If you cannot escape your possessions, I don't think that God requires you to forsake them again and again. There comes a point where you realize that what He really wanted was your heart; and that because He has that, it does not make a lick of difference to Him if you have possessions: because they don't possess you.

Also, in context of the passage that you speak of, Jesus said that it is hard for those who trust in riches to enter in to the kingdom of God. So the context indicates that it is an issue of trust.

And it is not that God only speaks it to the rich young ruler: for the context makes it clear that He is speaking to anyone who is trusting in their riches to help them when they are in a bind instead of the Lord.

 

[reformed1689]

You say:
"It was given to the 11 disciples and us because they were to command us to observe them."

You are mixing up the Gentile nations in the 1000year kingdom on earth with the Gentiles today. They were to be a light to the Gentiles and teach the Gentiles in the Davidic kingdom.

Just saying Paul does not apply does not negate the fact that it most certainly does; show me in his epistles to the body where we are to fulfil the "great commission" .....or in fact show me in the gospels where the body of Christ was even formed.

Ok clearly you live on a different planet. I'm done.

 

[Doug]

Because scripture interprets scripture. And the load is lightened elsewhere:

1Ti 6:17, Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;
1Ti 6:18, That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;
1Ti 6:19, Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

Which is not to say that I am wealthy by any standard. Compared to most people in the United States I am dirt poor. But compared to people in third-world countries I am actually quite wealthy.

I have left everything behind to follow Him on not a few occasions; I was considered to have a mental illness because of it. And also, the people in my family prayed that I would return and because of that, I am back with them and the possessions that I had before.

If you cannot escape your possessions, I don't think that God requires you to forsake them again and again. There comes a point where you realize that what He really wanted was your heart; and that because He has that, it does not make a lick of difference to Him if you have possessions: because they don't possess you.

Also, in context of the passage that you speak of, Jesus said that it is hard for those who trust in riches to enter in to the kingdom of God. So the context indicates that it is an issue of trust.

And it is not that God only speaks it to the rich young ruler: for the context makes it clear that He is speaking to anyone who is trusting in their riches to help them when they are in a bind instead of the Lord.

We are not commanded to sell all....I was just trying to show we have to determine if a verse applies to us or not.

 

[justbyfaith]

We are not commanded to sell all....I was just trying to show we have to determine if a verse applies to us or not.

Of course the context will reveal whether something is for us to obey or not. For the most part, every moral precept in the Bible is to be obeyed.

And I do not find much in the word where it can be said that it does not apply to us at some point in our lives.

Scriptures on hell applied to us before we came to faith in Christ: now that we are redeemed they no longer apply since that is not our destination any more.

However, my point was that all scripture is inspired of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness (2 Timothy 3:16).

Making arguments from the Bible that this is not the case, you will find yourself pitting scripture against scripture: and rather than argue with you over the apparent contradiction I would rather challenge you to explain it (for there is always an answer) and also pray that the Lord will open your eyes as to the reality of the matter.

 

[Doug]

Of course the context will reveal whether something is for us to obey or not. For the most part, every moral precept in the Bible is to be obeyed.

And I do not find much in the word where it can be said that it does not apply to us at some point in our lives.

Scriptures on hell applied to us before we came to faith in Christ: now that we are redeemed they no longer apply since that is not our destination.

However, my point was that all scripture is inspired of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness (2 Timothy 3:16).

Making arguments from the Bible that this is not the case, you will find yourself pitting scripture against scripture: and rather than argue with you over the apparent contradiction I would rather challenge you to explain it (for there is always an answer) and also pray that the Lord will open your eyes as to the reality of the matter.

You said:
"However, my point was that all scripture is inspired of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness (2 Timothy 3:16)."

Now with this I totally agree with....now I see where you are coming from.

 

[Doug]

Because scripture interprets scripture. And the load is lightened elsewhere:

1Ti 6:17, Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;
1Ti 6:18, That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;
1Ti 6:19, Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

Which is not to say that I am wealthy by any standard. Compared to most people in the United States I am dirt poor. But compared to people in third-world countries I am actually quite wealthy.

I have left everything behind to follow Him on not a few occasions; I was considered to have a mental illness because of it. And also, the people in my family prayed that I would return and because of that, I am back with them and the possessions that I had before.

If you cannot escape your possessions, I don't think that God requires you to forsake them again and again. There comes a point where you realize that what He really wanted was your heart; and that because He has that, it does not make a lick of difference to Him if you have possessions: because they don't possess you.

Also, in context of the passage that you speak of, Jesus said that it is hard for those who trust in riches to enter in to the kingdom of God. So the context indicates that it is an issue of trust.

And it is not that God only speaks it to the rich young ruler: for the context makes it clear that He is speaking to anyone who is trusting in their riches to help them when they are in a bind instead of the Lord.

You said
"If you cannot escape your possessions, I don't think that God requires you to forsake them again and again. There comes a point where you realize that what He really wanted was your heart; and that because He has that, it does not make a lick of difference to Him if you have possessions: because they don't possess you."

You are totally right......well said.......God does not want you to forsake family or possessions.

 

[justbyfaith]

You are totally right......well said.......God does not want you to forsake family or possessions.

Although He may call on you to do it as a test of what is in your heart.

 

[Doug]

Although He may call on you to do it as a test of what is in your heart.

I think he knows that already

 

[justbyfaith]

I think he knows that already

So that you may know it.

 

[Doug]

So that you may know it.

I see your point