Roots of Rapture - Origins of the Rapture Theory

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toddsumrall.com

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Not in the Bible....Christians will be here during the great tribulation. The pre-trib rapture theory is a western concept that was devised in the 1800s (see below). The Bible clearly shows that during the great tribulation, Christians and Jews are going to be martyred.Paul went so far as to say that the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ would not happen until there is a great falling away and the antichrist, man of sin, son of perdition be revealed.Christians in Sudan, Iran, Saudi Arabia and other Muslim countries, (some non Muslims countries too) think the rapture theory is a joke. Actually, they know that the western church is deceived. They die for their faith this very day. For a Muslim to convert to Christianity, or a Christian try to lead a Muslim to Christ, it is a death sentence, in Muslim Sharia law.Coptic Christians in Egypt are so persuaded that tribulation is coming, they tattoo a cross on the inside of their right wrist so that they will not be able to deny the Lord that bought them, in the worst moments of torture.2Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come the falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;If you think Christians will escape tribulation, even though Christ talked about a multitude in Revelations, that "loved not their lives unto death" then I suggest you visit this website:persecution.comIt was a soothsayer, a false prophet, that came up with the rapture theory (see below). Christians on earth at the time of His coming will be changed in a twinkling of the eye, not raptured. Saints in heaven already will come with Christ and will join the saints on the earth.Unfortunately, many will withdraw from Christ and become bitter, when they figure out there will not be a pre, mid or post rapture.The Origin of the Pretribulation Rapture Teaching (1)Whenever a Christian encounters a doctrine that has not been taught by anyone in any branch of Christ’s church for over eighteen centuries, one should be very suspect of that teaching. This fact in and of itself does not prove that the new teaching is false. But, it should definitely raise one’s suspicions, for if something is taught in Scripture, it is not unreasonable to expect at least a few theologians and exegetes to have discovered it before.The teaching of a secret pretribulation rapture is a doctrine that never existed before 1830. Did the pretribulation rapture come into existence by a careful exegesis of Scripture? No. The first person to teach the doctrine was a young woman named Margaret Macdonald. Margaret was not a theologian or Bible expositor but was a prophetess in the Irvingite sect (the Catholic Apostolic Church). Christian journalist Dave MacPherson has written a book on the subject of the origin of the pre-tribulation rapture. He writes: “We have seen that a young Scottish lassie named Margaret Macdonald had a private revelation in Port Glasgow, Scotland, in the early part of 1830 that a select group of Christians would be caught up to meet Christ in the air before the days of Antichrist. An eye-and-ear witness, Robert Norton M.D., preserved her handwritten account of her pre-trib rapture revelation in two of his books, and said it was the first time anyone ever split the second coming into two distinct parts or stages. His writings, along with much other Catholic Apostolic Church literature, have been hidden many decades from the mainstream of Evangelical thought and only recently surfaced. Margaret’s views were well-known to those who visited her home, among them John Darby of the Brethren. Within a few months her distinctive prophetic outlook was mirrored in the September, 1830 issue of The Morning Watch and the early Brethren assembly at Plymouth, England. Early disciples of the pre-trib interpretation often called it a new doctrine.”John Nelson Darby (1800-1882), who was the leader of the Brethren movement and the “father of modern Dispensationalism, ” took Margaret Macdonald’s new teaching on the rapture, made some changes (she taught a partial rapture of believers while he taught that all believers would be raptured) and incorporated it into his Dispensational understanding of Scripture and prophecy. Darby would spend the rest of his life speaking, writing and traveling, spreading the new rapture theory. The Plymouth Brethren openly admitted and were even proud of the fact that among their teachings were totally new ones which had never been taught by the church fathers, medieval scholastics, Protestant Reformers or the many commentators.The person most responsible for the rather widespread acceptance of Pretribulationalism and Dispensationalism among Evangelicals is Cyrus Ingerson Scofield (1843-1921). C. I. Scofield published his Scofield Reference Bible in 1909. This Bible, which espoused the doctrines of Darby in its notes, became very popular in Fundamentalist circles. In the minds of many a Bible teacher, fundamentalist pastor and multitudes of professing Christians, Scofield’s notes were practically equated with the word of God itself. If a person did not adhere to the Dispensational, Pretribulational scheme he or she would almost automatically be labeled a modernist.Today there is a whole plethora of books advocating the pretribulation rapture theory and the Dispensational understanding of the end times. Given the fact that among professing Christians the pre-trib rapture is still wildly popular, a comparison of this theory with scriptural teaching is warranted. We will see that the typical arguments offered in favor of this theory are in conflict with the Bible.(1)Dave MacPherson, The Incredible Cover-Up: The True Story of the Pre-Trib Rapture (Plainfield, NJ: Logos International, 1975), p. 93. The following scholars are cited by MacPherson who agree with MacPherson’s contention that pre-tribulationism is a fairly modern doctrine that originated in or around 1830: Samuel P. Tregelles, Alexander Reese, Floyd E. Hamilton, Oswald T. Allis, D. H. Kromminga, George E. Ladd and J. Barton Payne. MacPherson also cites several Dispensational, pre-trib scholars who admit that the pre-trib theory is in fact a new doctrine: W. E. Blackstone, H. A. Ironside, Charles C. Ryrie, Gerald B. Stanton and John F. Walvoord.
 

Christina

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Great Article Todd if only the American church would awake to this lie of men God's Word never taught this Rapture lie ,Christ never taught it,the Apostles never taught it is a based on twisted scripture and false doctrines of men The famine of the End Times is truly the lack of God Truths.
 

toddsumrall.com

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Thanks. You know one of the hardest things for western Christians to do is to look at the bible with an eastern focus instead of a western focus. The bible is primarily about Israel. Thank God for Paul teaching, or we gentiles would be completely left out. The end-times prophecies are primarily about Israel. The troubles in the world that bring forth the Antichrist is mostly about Israel. God makes Israel a burden to the entire world. We see this so clearly today. God will soon make Israel a trembling cup to the entire world as well, but especially to the Islamic nations that surround her.Jesus Christ is coming back because of Israel. We see that in:Joel 3:1 For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring back the captives of Judah and Jerusalem,Joe 3:2 I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will enter into judgment with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and have divided up my land.The 2nd coming is not about the church even though the church is involved. It is about Israel. It is because of the treatment of the Jews and the dividing up of the land of God. Once we understand that, then this false doctrine of a pretrib rapture will fall off naturally.Do I believe we get caught up in the air? Yes, to meet Jesus on his way to the Mount of Olives. We meet him and we get our redeemed bodies and we will fight with him for Israel.
 

Christina

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Well I agree that most takes place in Israel but you have to be careful when talking prophecy because the Term Israel can mean all twelve tribes only the Tribe of Judah is current Day Israel in prophecy The ten so called lost tribes were the ones that left Jerusalem crossed the Caucasus Mt's into Scotland, then Britain and eventually the U.S.the Christian nations are the ten lost tribes often called Ephraim in prophecyYou can read of this in the history of Jacobs Pillar the stone used for his pillow(Stone of Scone) traveled with them when they left Jerusalem and Now sits under the Throne in Scotland after being returned a few years ago by England. This is the meaning of the verse in Ez. that Judah (modern Jews) and Christains(ephriam)will be rejoined together under Christ the sticks (branches joined together) as Israel (12 tribes/sometimes called Jacob)Eze 37:16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and [for] all the house of Israel his companions: Eze 37:17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand. Eze 37:19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which [is] in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, [even] with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.Have you ever read "Jacob's Pillar" by E. Raymond Capt?http://members.aol.com/Skyelander/stone.htmlWe have several studies on this here entitled Jacobs Pillar and or the ten lost tribes if you do a search some better than others
 

toddsumrall.com

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The twelve tribes are not lost anymore. They are coming into Israel from over 100 nations in a massive ALIYAH, that is Jewish homecoming. From Ethiopia, to Russia to Britain, to America. They are not just of the tribe of Judah. I strongly disagree about the Christian nations being the lost tribes. This is a heretical replacement theology that says the church replaced Israel and is very dangerous to promulgate.
 

Christina

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Yes they are all tribes but according to Bible prophecy and who is called whom, in prophecy your thoughts are not biblical Ephriam is not Just the tribe of Ephraim either but representative of the ten tribes as Judah is representative of today's Jews this is how Gods word separates the two in prophecy. This is his terminology not mine.Read the above verse in Ez.I do not believe in Church replacement theology the Church has never replaced Israel but you are ignoring the inheritance/birthright and promise to AbrahamYou can not exclude the church anymore than you can replace Israel. I never said nor agree to any replacement theory but what scripture says is that there are two branches that will be joined together one Judah(Jews) and one Ephraim(Christians) that makes up all The whole House of Israel that is what the Bible says and proved in history.[url="http://www.christianityboard.com/im-hungry-sell-me-your-birthright-t5119.html]http://www.christianityboard.com/im-hungry...ight-t5119.html[/url]
 

tim_from_pa

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Yes, I concur with Kriss regarding the tribes of Israel. Americans, British and Europeans of sorts descended from the house of Israel. In other words, if one could do a genealogy long enough, many individuals would find that they physically descended from one of the tribes such as Ephraim, Manasseh, Gad, Simeon, etc, etc, and as such are Israelites and are allowed to claim the land with the Jew. Jews are primarily from two tribes, not 12. (Ezra 10:9).As for the Rapture doctrine being a new one, that may be true. However, if I do not believe in it, the reason I don't believe in it has nothing to do with how long its been taught. The fact that the church did not teach it by itself does not prove to me that it does not exist. I would have to go by scripture instead. The reason I say this is because historically speaking, the belief in the lost tribes of Israel as being other nations is fairly new relatively speaking, but that does not mean it is not true. It simply means that the church was blind to it all these years (as the bible says would be the case).
 

toddsumrall.com

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Lost tribes of Israel are semetic, decended from Shem, which BTW are no longer lost as they are flooding into Israel from over 100 nations even now. Europe is mostly decended from Japheth. Ya'll believe some funky stuff.
 

Christina

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No we have researched it as you should you are going against scripture and history it is not biblical instead of just talking explain Ez to me show me in scripture where the christian(gentile) fits I have backed up what I said with scripture and history you are just giving an opinion not based in fact what does Shem have to do with anything we are talking the scatting after 70 AD Joseph of Armenthia and the daughters and remants of the ten lost tribes that married into the ruling Kings and queens of Scotland
 

Christina

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Do you disagree that the ten lost tribes scattered across Europe?? Well where do you think the first American colonists, Candians,ect came from if not Europe???
 

toddsumrall.com

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(kriss;31983)
Do you disagree that the ten lost tribes scattered across Europe?? Well where do you think the first American colonists, Candians,ect came from if not Europe???
You sound like a Mormon. They believe similar. I will not belabor the point, but when the earth was divided up, Japheth was given Europe. Shem the Levant. What does Shem have to do with it? Abraham was descended from Shem. Yes, the lost tribes were scattered in Europe, but the Germanic, Celtic, Finnish, Swedes, Francs, etc, that make up white Europe were not descended from Shem, but rather decended from Japheth which makes the original colonization of America a Japheth and not Semitic settlement. But believe what you want... Like I said it is funky stuff borderlining on beliefs of Mormons and replacement theology. Dangerous in my opinion.
 

Christina

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Well you are wrong I am certainly no Mormon not do I buy any replacement theory I just study the bible and history I will believe what if it doesn't go with scripture it is not from God and this is the time of the gentiles and if you don't call the people in scripture who they are you will never understand it. I have said before where do you think the people of the Ten lost tribes traveled to they have forgotten who they were.If you would stop making accusations and give me scripture to back anything you have said or do you just listen to men?? In the bible when God speaks of Judah he is talking about modern day Israel when he prophecies about Ephraim and Manasha he is talking about the US ,Britain (christian nations) this is scripture as I showed you. And both christians and Jews will be joined together the two sticks joined just as Ez saysand as was told to AbrahamGen 17:5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee. what nations do you think he is talking about but his Jewish nation and his Christain nations
 

Christina

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By using the two sticks, God is symbolizing the division between Israel, and Judah, or in terms of today; Christian and Jew.Ezekiel 37:17 "And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand."This joining of the two sticks will not happen until the first day of the Millennium age, when our Lord Jesus Christ returns.Ezekiel 37:18 "And when the children of thy People shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?"When Ezekiel performs the joining of these two sticks, and is questioned by the Israelites, this is what God instructed him to say.Ezekiel 37:19 "Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in Mine hand."They will be joined as one people, and one nation, just as they were in the days of Jacob, Moses, David and Solomon: before the nation split into two nations. This will be a great day, and it will happen when our Lord Jesus Christ returns.Ezekiel 37:20 "And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes."This is the symbolic joining together of the whole house, all the tribes. It is to show us that God will and does always keep His word. Though we think we know who we are, in that day there will be no doubt. This time has not happened yet, and when the appointed time comes, God knows where each "kernel of His grain", each of "His own children" is. Not one soul is lost from God.Ezekiel 37:21 "And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be one, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:"Ezekiel 37:22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:"Ezekiel 37:23 "Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions:"
 

toddsumrall.com

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When God refers to any tribe he is referring to Jews from the loins of Abraham that make up the nation or Israel, physical Israel. Judah and the northern tribes make up Israel. Two nations from the loins of one Jacob. When God speaks of Ephraim and Manasseh he speaks of the physical tribes of Israel, not Britain and the US. That is one long stretch to get that conclusion!Two nations are Judah with Benjamin and Levi included as 1/2 and the other 1/2 are the tribes that broke off after Solomon. That is the only sound understanding the Bible gives on this matter. The two nations are coming together now in ALIYAH.
for a father of many nations have I made thee what nations do you think he is talking about but his Jewish nation and his Christian nations
That would be incorrect. Abraham is the father of the Jews/Jacob, Arabs/Ishmael, Edomites/Esau, Those people made up many nations. Ishmael himself had 12 kings and kingdoms from his loins. These are the many nations he is the father of. Not so-called Christian nations.Christian gentiles are a spiritual heir of Abraham and not a fleshly heir. The US and Britain are for the most part gentile.I've said my piece about this, you are free to believe what you want. I don't see any point in discussing this any further.
 

Jordan

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Genesis 17:5 - Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.Is not the US a nation? Is not UK a nation? Abraham is not promised to be a father of a selected nation. But He is promised by God to be a father of many nations. I have to agree with Kriss. Jews and Christians will be in His Hand. I will say that God takes care of His children, when His children relys on Him.
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JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
 

tim_from_pa

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("toddsumrall.com")
Lost tribes of Israel are semetic, decended from Shem, which BTW are no longer lost as they are flooding into Israel from over 100 nations even now. Europe is mostly decended from Japheth. Ya'll believe some funky stuff.
Well, if you think we believe in funky stuff regarding the lost tribes, then you're in the wrong place because this board is riddled with us British Israel types, why we are coming out of the woodwork.
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("toddsumrall.com")
That would be incorrect. Abraham is the father of the Jews/Jacob, Arabs/Ishmael, Edomites/Esau, Those people made up many nations. Ishmael himself had 12 kings and kingdoms from his loins. These are the many nations he is the father of. Not so-called Christian nations.
I agree that the prophecy of many nations are actual nations as you mention here..... but the nations you speak of are not the promised ones. The promise of many nations goes with the birthright. That was passed to Isaac, for in ISAAC his seed shall be called. Then it went to Jacob. So, then we get to Genesis 35:11 where Jacob's seed are promised to be a nation and company of nations. That narrows it down to one of his 12 sons. Then after all that, in Genesis 48:19 the promise of a nation and many nations goes to Joseph's sons.One can see by applying basic genealogy that Ishmael, Esau, and whoever else does not fit this bill. These are UNCLES, not children to Joseph who had the promises. It is very dangerous to take the blessings of God and apply them to an unblessed lineage!
 

Jordan

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I agree with you 100% tim_from_pa.
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It's like saying this, "Take God and apply it to Satan. *sigh*JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
 

Christina

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You know Todd I agree with you that westerners make the Bible to much about thembut your being the flip side of the same coin making it all about Israel and the east.God is no religion but neither is he west nor east he is the God of all the World and its prophecys and the word are about the whole world Anyone trying to limit them to the West or to the East is are never going to understand his plan as far as I can see all your doing is trying to take a more Eastern point of view replace the Western view The ONLY right view is the WORD and if any veiw doesnt aligin with the Word its wrong no matter east or west left or right. And sense your veiw doesnt align with scripture its just another veiw. We are not trying to be argumentive with you I get you are set in your veiw. But we are set in Gods veiw only and we can not throw out Gods Word for Western views nor Eastern veiwsSo guess we have to agree to disagree
 

Alanforchrist

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Some Christians will go through the tribulation, because the Bible says, Jesus is coming for those that love Him, Some who are in a backsliden state will have to go through the tribulation. But I am going in the first rapture, You can stay if you want.Lets look at 2 Thess 2:3, "That day will not come, except ther come a falling away first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition".There are two ways to look at here, first, there has already been a falling away, among some Christians, and the way they have fallen from biblical truths.But what 2 Thess 2:3, means is, This is how the Greek has it and some Bible scolars agree. "Falling away" [A catching away, a withdrawing] "The rapture". Then and then only can the Devil be revealed, Are you saying the devil is greater then the greater one in you.Look at v 7--8, v7, "The mystery of iniquity doth already work, only he The [church] holds it back untill he [the church] is taken out of the way.v8, "then shall the wicked one be revealed" "When the church is raptured the devil can be revealed".
 

Jordan

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(Alanforchrist;32076)
Some Christians will go through the tribulation, because the Bible says, Jesus is coming for those that love Him, Some who are in a backsliden state will have to go through the tribulation. But I am going in the first rapture, You can stay if you want.Lets look at 2 Thess 2:3, "That day will not come, except ther come a falling away first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition".There are two ways to look at here, first, there has already been a falling away, among some Christians, and the way they have fallen from biblical truths.But what 2 Thess 2:3, means is, This is how the Greek has it and some Bible scolars agree. "Falling away" [A catching away, a withdrawing] "The rapture". Then and then only can the Devil be revealed, Are you saying the devil is greater then the greater one in you.Look at v 7--8, v7, "The mystery of iniquity doth already work, only he The [church] holds it back untill he [the church] is taken out of the way.v8, "then shall the wicked one be revealed" "When the church is raptured the devil can be revealed".
Some Christians will go through the tribulation? Wrong answer. It is ALL Christians will go through the Tribulation. (John 16:33)Whether one is a Christian, or a Jew, or a nonbelievers, Every single souls still alive will go through the Tribulation as ALL people will make a choice between Satan or Christ, as Christ is coming at the seventh trumpet. (I Corinthians 15:50-54, I Thessalonians 4:16-17, Revelation 11:15)JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.