Sabbath Keeping - I would have been stoned

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Adventageous

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I tend to think those who keep repeating ''We must obey the TC'' sound like they are looking to an external law, that was old covenant wasn't it? Under the new covenant applicable law is written in the mind and placed on the heart of every believer. It is in their most inward parts, part of their spiritual dna in Christ so to speak. If you know in your mind how God wants you to live and desire in your heart to live that way(for that is where the law now is), why would you constantly need to be told you must obey this or that law?
In my experience the law within will always convict of sin to a far greater degree than an external written down law ever will.
When I reached puberty, I often heard people say ''You must obey the TC'' And when I heard that, my thoughts always turned inward to my impure thoughts and I felt much guilt. I didn't know at that time through reading the words of the TC, they covered impure thoughts/lust, but I instinctively knew in my heart and mind. Thus in my view, the more reliable witness of conviction comes from the internal law, not external
The "TC" (sic) are each & all promises of God in the eternal covenant. Most people just look at them incorrectly, or with the eye of condemnation. The "TC" (sic) are written by the Holy Ghost (same who wrote them on stone) upon the fleshy tables of the human heart / mind (the human brain when looked at from a frontal perspective, shows 2 'tables', 2 hemisphere at the frontal lobe, the place of reasoning, prayer, communication with God, etc). Therefore, in the eternal everlasting covenant, one is not looking to the external so much (though it is still useful in a way), but that same law written upon the heart by the Holy Spirit.

In other words, the individual commandments (Exo. 20:1-17) are to be considered as God's promises of what God will bring a person to, in Christ Jesus (who was perfect, and sinned not, and without sin), by the Holy Ghost.

So "Thou shalt not commit adultery" (&c.), instead of simply being an external harsh 'DO NOT DO THIS!" (action on human, "All that the LORD hath spoken we will do"; Exo. 19:8 KJB), becomes in the eternal covenant, "I, God, promise to bring you to such a condition that "Thou shalt not commit adultery" ever again ("saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people." Jer. 31:33 KJB). The Father did this, by sending the gospel (Son - Jesus), and the Holy Ghost. Thus as the NT states, God works IN, and we work OUT (that which comes from withIN):
Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.​
Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.​

I hope that this has been helpful to you. Several places in the NT (and OT) state these things.
2Co 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.​

Here is a chart (image) on this chapter, for you - 2 Corinthians 3 Vs 7 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
Or you can see it here, more clearly - The 7th Day The Sabbath - The Rest Of His Eternal Story (by Aaron Earnest) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

In other words, the Christian becomes not of the dead-stoney-heart, but becomes lively (living) stones of God's commandments, a walking law of God (as Jesus is), and God places each 'brick in the wall' of New Jerusalem:

1Pe_2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.​
 

saved by grace 101

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The "TC" (sic) are each & all promises of God in the eternal covenant. Most people just look at them incorrectly, or with the eye of condemnation. The "TC" (sic) are written by the Holy Ghost (same who wrote them on stone) upon the fleshy tables of the human heart / mind (the human brain when looked at from a frontal perspective, shows 2 'tables', 2 hemisphere at the frontal lobe, the place of reasoning, prayer, communication with God, etc). Therefore, in the eternal everlasting covenant, one is not looking to the external so much (though it is still useful in a way), but that same law written upon the heart by the Holy Spirit.

In other words, the individual commandments (Exo. 20:1-17) are to be considered as God's promises of what God will bring a person to, in Christ Jesus (who was perfect, and sinned not, and without sin), by the Holy Ghost.

So "Thou shalt not commit adultery" (&c.), instead of simply being an external harsh 'DO NOT DO THIS!" (action on human, "All that the LORD hath spoken we will do"; Exo. 19:8 KJB), becomes in the eternal covenant, "I, God, promise to bring you to such a condition that "Thou shalt not commit adultery" ever again ("saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people." Jer. 31:33 KJB). The Father did this, by sending the gospel (Son - Jesus), and the Holy Ghost. Thus as the NT states, God works IN, and we work OUT (that which comes from withIN):
Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.​
Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.​

I hope that this has been helpful to you. Several places in the NT (and OT) state these things.
2Co 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.​

Here is a chart (image) on this chapter, for you - 2 Corinthians 3 Vs 7 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
Or you can see it here, more clearly - The 7th Day The Sabbath - The Rest Of His Eternal Story (by Aaron Earnest) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

In other words, the Christian becomes not of the dead-stoney-heart, but becomes lively (living) stones of God's commandments, a walking law of God (as Jesus is), and God places each 'brick in the wall' of New Jerusalem:

1Pe_2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.​
Thanks for that
I just instinctively know in my mind God does not want me to steal, commit adultery, covet, bear false witness, take the Lords name in vain, and in my heart(the flesh is another matter) I don't want to do those things for that is where applicable law now is. No condemnation, because:
Their sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more
I like Paul's words. If gentiles had never known of biblical law they can show the requirements(not some of the requirements) of the law are written in their hearts, obviously by the way they act.(Rom2:14&15) As I testified to, I understood what the tenth commandment entailed without understanding through reading the letter of it
Incidentally, I went to an sda church for a while to please a friend. I was impressed with the minister, he told me he never argued/debated over differences in belief, it wasn't productive, it never got anywhere
And, he knew I came from an evangelical background, so when one women preached one day and said ''we don't have crazy talk in our church'' he looked at me apologetically. Nice man
 
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bro.tan

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Let me keep the law and become like... Reverend Polar Bear! The deadest preacher this side of the Rocky mountains!

But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. - 2 Corinthians 11:3

I believe such teachings as being taught in this thread lead to spiritual coldness.... And in the words of the minister below @29:00, "Folks are coming into the church, and they are coming for something, but it is so dead and cold in our churches, until you can ice-skate down to the pulpit! And whose standing behind that pulpit yawl? Rev Polar Bear! Cold as ice! The first church of frigid-air! No deliverance! No Life! No Holy Ghost!"

So how do you know you are in the incorrectness of a church? Just examine the spirituality! And to add a thought of the minister....People are coming to the church looking like totem poles!

Let me explain the basics that a church should teach, according to the Bible. A church should teach the uncut word of God according to the Prophets (Old Testament) and the Apostles (New Testament). They should observe the Lord’s Sabbath Day, the Lord’s Feast Days (as outlined in Leviticus 23rd chapter), and the Lord’s Dietary Law (as outlined in Leviticus 11th chapter). They should teach and observe the Royal Law, which is the Ten Commandments.

We also believe in the resurrection and that Jesus is the King of Israel who will rule over the House of Jacob forever. We believe Jesus is the God of all people and his house “shall be a house of prayer for all people”. (Isaiah 56:7)

The wises man to ever live says in Ecclesiastes 12: 8 Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher; all is vanity. 9 And moreover, because the preacher was wise, he still taught the people knowledge; yea, he gave good heed, and sought out, and set in order many proverbs. 10 The preacher sought to find out acceptable words: and that which was written was upright, even words of truth. 11 The words of the wise are as goads, and as nails fastened by the masters of assemblies, which are given from one shepherd. But Let’s skip down to verse 13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
 

Aunty Jane

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Yes,the ideas of men turned Jesus into their ideal. A mere man. Which meant he was born in sin. Which means those men ignore the old testament and now follow a false idol.
Jesus was never a mere man....nor was he born in sin as his origin was heavenly not earthly.

Jesus could not carry a single strand of Adam’s DNA because the life he lost for his children was sinless and no human born from sinful Adam could pay the set price of redemption, but a sinless man. Hence Jesus had to come from heaven and be born of a human woman without any of Adam’s DNA being involved.
He was God’s Son who came into the world through a human agency....Mary.

He was born sinless to pay Adam’s debt. God’s law demanded justice, in that a life taken had to be atoned for by a life given in recompense. As ‘in Adam all must die, so in Christ all can be made alive’....but it’s not automatic....you have to accept Christ as your savior and serve the God that he served. (Acts 4:27, 30)
It means becoming an imitator of Christ. (1 Pet 2:21)
They're damned.
Yet,convinced they're right.
No one is damned....they simply make the wrong choice as Adam and his wife did under the influence of someone who had already separated himself from his God the moment he entertained a desire to be worshipped. (James 1:14-15) The only way to do that was to tempt them to eat the fruit that he knew would incur a serious penalty....one that he lied about. “You surely will not die” is still believe by the majority of humans in some form or another. All false religion teaches this lie. The Bible does not. There is no immortal soul taught in the Bible. (Ezekiel 18:4)

Even perfect creatures have free will and that can be abused.....the rebellion could never have taken place without it.....and as we see in every evil act perpetrated in this world...all are an abuse of free will....and come from a heart alienated from God.

So was givng us free will a mistake?
Jesus is the word of God.
What do you think that title means?
The “word of God” has to be distinguished from “The Word of God” (ho logos)

Context determines which is which, so “the word of God” can be written or spoken...but “The Word of God” as a title for Jesus means that he was a spokesman for his God and Father. He is the “one mediator between God and men” which makes him the go-between, or facilitator of communication between two estranged parties.....God and man....he cannot therefore be one of the parties.
 

Gottservant

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I have often thought, especially as I burn my own firewood.... That I would have been that guy!

32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
35 And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses. - Numbers 15
I have thought about this too - there was a time when we had a fireplace and we would be cold on Sunday, and I would be like "its against the rules to collect firewood, but Mum says 'go collect firewood' and the Bible says to honour your father and mother!"

Bear in mind the Devil will make you feel bad about it, even long after you have ceased to do it!
 

Adventageous

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Jesus was never a mere man....nor was he born in sin as his origin was heavenly not earthly.

Jesus could not carry a single strand of Adam’s DNA because the life he lost for his children was sinless and no human born from sinful Adam could pay the set price of redemption, but a sinless man. Hence Jesus had to come from heaven and be born of a human woman without any of Adam’s DNA being involved.
He was God’s Son who came into the world through a human agency....Mary.

He was born sinless to pay Adam’s debt. God’s law demanded justice, in that a life taken had to be atoned for by a life given in recompense. As ‘in Adam all must die, so in Christ all can be made alive’....but it’s not automatic....you have to accept Christ as your savior and serve the God that he served. (Acts 4:27, 30)
It means becoming an imitator of Christ. (1 Pet 2:21)
As stated before, the WTS / JW error (borrowed somewhat from Catholicism, though rejecting it in other parts), removes Jesus from being able to be the substitute and/or example for any of humanity.

Jesus came in "the likness of sinful (fallen) flesh" (nature), as per Romans 8:3

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:​

Where was "sin condemned"? "in the flesh". In the "flesh" of who? "God['s] "own Son" (aka Jesus). In other words, Jesus was able to "condemn sin" because He as "God ... manifest in the flesh" (1 Tim. 3:16) lived a life in "sinful flesh" and yet was "without sin" (Heb. 4:15 KJB) in that perfect life. He is the substitute and also example, that each of us, who live in the same flesh, sinful (fallen) flesh can live by the same Spirit He lived in, being the Holy Spirit (of which His mind was born of; Luk. 1:35 KJB). Do not confuse the two, "flesh" and "spirit" (mind), as Jesus in John 3 is clear about that separation. See this chart (pages 121-122) - The 7th Day The Sabbath - The Rest Of His Eternal Story (by Aaron Earnest) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

The Psalms (of David, the type of Christ) says the same thing:

Psa_51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.​

This Psalm (51), as other scriptures, point to the real David, or Jesus (Jer. 30:9; Eze. 34:23-24, 37:24-25; Hos. 3:5 KJB, see Jhn. 5:39; Luk. 24:27; Act. 3:18 KJB, &c.). To be born with sinful flesh, is not to be born a sinner. Sin is the transgression of the Ten Commandments / Law of JEHOVAH Elohiym (1 Jhn. 3:4; Rom. 7:7,14; Jam. 2:80-13 KJB, &c.) not simply being born (that is a Roman Catholic ideology, comes through "Original Sin" dogma, which is why they needed "Immaculate Conception" (Mary needed to be sinless by her mother 'Anne') dogma, and later "Impeccability" dogma, &c.). Sin is a trangression (commission or omission).

To deny that Jesus came in that "sinful (fallen) flesh" nature of Adam, after sin, is the ideology of "antichrist":

1Jn_4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.​
2Jn_1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.​

It means, that Jesus could not save any person born with sinful (fallen) flesh nature, since the WTS / JW, and others like Roman Catholicism strip Jesus of that attribute. Salvation means nothing then, since there was no salvation from anything, since the "sinful (fallen) flesh" of Jesus is removed from Him.

Yet scripture is clear:

Heb_2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.​

Angelic beings, have an unfallen flesh nature. Jesus did not take that nature in becoming human. He instead took on "the seed of Abraham", and "seed" has a specific DNA structure / profile. Abraham was a sinner. Thus Abraham's physical descendants, as Jesus was, is also physically of that same fallen nature in His humanity.

Again see Question 43, and its answer - Godhead - The Eternal Heavenly Trio : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Moreover the scriptures state these same things again and again:

Rom_1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;​
Gal_4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,​
2Ti_2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:​

The law of heredity in human fallen flesh, through Mary, through David, through Abraham, through Noah, through fallen Adam (&c), is what Jesus took upon Himself in becoming a man. All children are born with sinful (fallen) flesh after Adam / Eve sinned. The very word "seed" comes from Gen. 3:15, and the nature itself also shown by that fallen "woman" and by the fallen flesh of the lambs in Gen. 3:21.

Thus "made of a woman" (Mary, descedant from Eve, the mother of all living, who came from Adam (thus "one flesh" of mankind, unfallen in the beginning, now fallen through sin):

1Co_15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.​

Jesus could not be a creature (which is already amenable to God's law and subject under it, their life not being their own). Jesus could not be with sinless flesh (since that would prove nothing, be an example for no one on earth after Adam's sin, and by no means help anyone who is with sinful flesh overcome anything, since the devil would just claim Jesus had advantage in flesh). Jesus could not be absent of Adam's DNA (as the law required a life and blood (in which is DNA), and only a life of Adam's DNA, and yet also before Adam as Head over humanity as Creator, and one of infinite life, greater than length of death (1st and 2nd)). Thus only the Alpha and Omega could redeem.

The WTS / JW 'gospel' is no gospel at all, cannot save anyone, since their flesh is differing than Jesus' flesh, and they claim not to bother with the Ten Commandments in their 'NC' anyway (in brief), and so, presently go about proclaiming a self-righteousness (apart from God's righteousness; Psa. 119:172), or a way to exist without obedience to God's ways, which is an impossibility.

2Pe_2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.​

So, the WTS/ JW will talk about "saviour", "salvation", but their definition is void of the scriptural definiton of salvation:

Mat_1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.​
Jesus did that in the likeness of sinful (fallen) flesh, and yet did not sin in that flesh by the Holy Ghost, by grace through faith! That is the victory. That is the Everlasting Gospel. Whatever it is that the WTS / JW are selling, it isn't the real gospel. I am not speaking of individual persons caught up in that system, or even of A.J. here. I am speaking of a system of belief / practices that will lead to death, and only death. They do not accept Jesus as the I AM of Exo. 3.

Joh_8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.​

Thus, while a WTS / JW member may say that Jesus is "Lord", they only mean it in such a way as like a kingly ruler, and not what the scriptures mean by it, citing OT, referring to Jesus JEHOVAH.

Php_2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.​

That "kyrios" ("Lord") is simply the NT way of Paul citing the OT Hebrew "JEHOVAH", but covering it from "Adonai" (thus translating to Kyrios, "κυριος" in the NT koine Greek) over JEHOVAH as many Jews then did at the time.

Isa 45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.​
Isa 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.​
Isa 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.​
Isa 45:24 Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.​
Isa 45:25 In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.​

In other words, at present, only a born again person will acknowledge that Jesus is the LORD- JEHOVAH. WTS / JW members will never do that because of their indoctrination to the contrary.
 
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Adventageous

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I have thought about this too - there was a time when we had a fireplace and we would be cold on Sunday, and I would be like "its against the rules to collect firewood, but Mum says 'go collect firewood' and the Bible says to honour your father and mother!"

Bear in mind the Devil will make you feel bad about it, even long after you have ceased to do it!
1. No rule in scripture against gathering firewood on 'Sunday' (colloquially, though not technically; 'first day of the week')
2. Sometimes to honour father and mother means to tell them "No, I must be about my Father's (in Heaven) business", even if they do not understand, or punish one for it, for that is truly honouring them under God. Another point is that honouring Father begins with the Father in Heaven above humanity, and mother, refers to New Jerusalem above, above humanity.

One rule of scripture is not to be made to counter another. I do not simply say "Yes mom or dad" when Scripture says not to do something contrary to their personal will. I honour them in verity / truth when I do the right thing, even if I suffer consequences of misunderstanding by others over me. The Bible also says to obey religious and even governmental leaders placed there by God. Does that mean I should obey if they order me to murder someone? No, of course not.
 
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