Sabbath-Keeping

[Keeth]

For anyone interested in the history behind this topic I have recently found a short book published in 1657 and available on Google docs. You can find it by searching...

"The seventh day sabbath sought out (1657)"
By Thomas Tillman - a minister of the gospel.

(Sorry I couldn't find the actual link)
The Author is responding to a "Mr Aspinwal" so he "may recieve a full answer to his piece against the sabbath"

I recommend this reading to those on both sides of the fence. I am in the midst of reading this now, so cannot give a full review, suffice to say that the author writes with power on all the points of contention still being discussed even here on this thread 358 Years later. And it is shorter at 109 pages than the 354 posts now on this thread.

God bless you all in your earnest searching of the scriptures.

http://www.sealingtime.com/resources/online-library/books/other/thomas-tillam/the-seventh-day-sabbath-sought-out-thomas-tillam-1657

 

[Raeneske]

We can argue all day. But the Bible has given us a plain thus saith the Lord. It cannot be controverted. Exodus 20:8-11 is plain. Those who continue to exalt Sunday will continue to see the movements to see Sunday being enforced worldwide. May the truth then grasp the minds of those who are disagreeing.

As of recent, Arizona State Senator Sylvia Allen has spoken of the enforcement of Sunday as a mandatory church day as a way to deal with moral corruption. On March 3rd the European Sunday Alliance brought together 50 people to discuss how they can get EU Legislation to respect Sunday. As of April 18, the Lord's Day Alliance has called Sunday the mark of Christian unity (mark of the beast!) and that we should "reclaim for ... God". All is going forth as prophesied. God will be glorified.

 

[Phoneman777]

We can argue all day. But the Bible has given us a plain thus saith the Lord. It cannot be controverted. Exodus 20:8-11 is plain. Those who continue to exalt Sunday will continue to see the movements to see Sunday being enforced worldwide. May the truth then grasp the minds of those who are disagreeing.

As of recent, Arizona State Senator Sylvia Allen has spoken of the enforcement of Sunday as a mandatory church day as a way to deal with moral corruption. On March 3rd the European Sunday Alliance brought together 50 people to discuss how they can get EU Legislation to respect Sunday. As of April 18, the Lord's Day Alliance has called Sunday the mark of Christian unity (mark of the beast!) and that we should "reclaim for ... God". All is going forth as prophesied. God will be glorified.

Hear hear! Christians know it is inconsistent to say that we can break the Sabbath but must still keep the other nine, so instead of accepting the Sabbath, they have devised all sorts of ridiculous arguments from Scripture to explain why we are no longer obligated to observe the Ten Commandments, but these confused believers adamantly refuse to publicly declare that we may commit wholesale adultery, theft, idolatry, Satan worship, etc.

 

[UppsalaDragby]

Well unless any of you guys can demonstrate, with scripture, that the 10 commandments were given to "us", then the old "9 out of 10" argument is totally worthless, don't you think?

Scripture teaches us that those who are saved and who follow the spirit are no longer under the law.

Why are you ignoring that?

Can anyone of you answer these questions - with scripture?

Anyone???

 

[zeke25]

Well unless any of you guys can demonstrate, with scripture, that the 10 commandments were given to "us", then the old "9 out of 10" argument is totally worthless, don't you think?

Scripture teaches us that those who are saved and who follow the spirit are no longer under the law.

Why are you ignoring that?

Can anyone of you answer these questions - with scripture?

Anyone???

Upp,

Nope. They cannot answer. On page 8 of this thread, post #226, phoneman admitted that he had no Scriptural support whatsoever for his fantasy doctrines. Yet he continues to preach his false message from some other source, because it certainly doesn't come from the Bible. I guess it makes him happy.

Zeke25

 

[Raeneske]

Upp,

Nope. They cannot answer. On page 8 of this thread, post #226, phoneman admitted that he had no Scriptural support whatsoever for his fantasy doctrines. Yet he continues to preach his false message from some other source, because it certainly doesn't come from the Bible. I guess it makes him happy.

Zeke25

Yet I have made no such notion. Refer back to my previous posts if you wish.

 

[Keeth]

Well unless any of you guys can demonstrate, with scripture, that the 10 commandments were given to "us", then the old "9 out of 10" argument is totally worthless, don't you think?

Scripture teaches us that those who are saved and who follow the spirit are no longer under the law.

Why are you ignoring that?

Can anyone of you answer these questions - with scripture?

Anyone???

You will not regard or accept any answer, from scripture or otherwise. You refuse and deny the most obvious of scripture with your false theories and your false gospel of the Gentiles. Acting and preaching as though there is one gospel for the Jew, and another for the Gentile. As though they each have different problems which the Lord came to address in different manners for each of them. You deny the Sabbath existed before there ever was a Jew, which the scriptures clearly state. You deny it should be kept now when it will be kept even in the new heaven and new earth, which the scriptures clearly state. You also deny that any reference to keeping the ten commandments in the new testament is refering to the ten simply because it teaches that love is the fulfillment of the law. Even though the old testament says the same thing many times over, but it never meant that the ten were abolished. You claim that giving the new commandments of loving God and your neighbor negate the ten, without any scriptural evidence to that effect. Thus you will of course ignore the following upon these false grounds.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

That's right, admonished to keep the commandments of God right up to the last book and chapter of the bible. Go ahead, maintain your denial of the truth of scripture right in front of your face.

 

[Jun2u]

The Bible is a historical as well as a spiritual book yet majority of people read and critique it like it is an ordinary book.

God has given us the principles and methodology by which we can understand the deeper meanings of difficult passages in Scripture, 2Ti 3:16 and 1Co 2:14.

God spoke in parables and without a parable He did not speak, Mr 4:34. A parable is an earthly story with a spiritually/heavenly meaning and in this manner, this makes the Bible a parable since it is God's story book to mankind.

I've skimmed through some of the posts but have not found anyone really understanding the meaning of the whole matter of the Seventh Day Sabbath!

Some could probably answer a question or two posted below but not all. For example:

1 What is the significant and purpose of resting on the Seventh day or Sabbath?

2 Was the Sabbath enacted in Genesis or in Exodus?

3 Why was the punishment of working on the Sabbath so severe as to be stoned to
death like the man who picked up sticks in Numbers 15:35.

4 What is the correlation between the sabbath rest and the rest in Hebrews 4?

5 There are those (especially SDAs) who contend that the Sabbath has not been
changed to another day, where is their proof text? I on the other hand, can produce
prove that God changed it from Saturday Sabbath to Sunday Sabbath.

6 Is the keeping of the Sabbath essential for the people of today?

7 Does the keeping of the Sabbath essential to salvation?

All the questions above are not chronological in order but must be answered in order to understand the import of the Sabbath.

If anyone have questions, please ask and do not assume.

To God Be The Glory

 

[zeke25]

Yet I have made no such notion. Refer back to my previous posts if you wish.

I'm glad to see that Martin Luther finally learned the truth. But that is not a private club.

The Bible is a historical as well as a spiritual book yet majority of people read and critique it like it is an ordinary book.

God has given us the principles and methodology by which we can understand the deeper meanings of difficult passages in Scripture, 2Ti 3:16 and 1Co 2:14.

God spoke in parables and without a parable He did not speak, Mr 4:34. A parable is an earthly story with a spiritually/heavenly meaning and in this manner, this makes the Bible a parable since it is God's story book to mankind.

I've skimmed through some of the posts but have not found anyone really understanding the meaning of the whole matter of the Seventh Day Sabbath!

Some could probably answer a question or two posted below but not all. For example:

1 What is the significant and purpose of resting on the Seventh day or Sabbath?

2 Was the Sabbath enacted in Genesis or in Exodus?

3 Why was the punishment of working on the Sabbath so severe as to be stoned to
death like the man who picked up sticks in Numbers 15:35.

4 What is the correlation between the sabbath rest and the rest in Hebrews 4?

5 There are those (especially SDAs) who contend that the Sabbath has not been
changed to another day, where is their proof text? I on the other hand, can produce
prove that God changed it from Saturday Sabbath to Sunday Sabbath.

6 Is the keeping of the Sabbath essential for the people of today?

7 Does the keeping of the Sabbath essential to salvation?

All the questions above are not chronological in order but must be answered in order to understand the import of the Sabbath.

If anyone have questions, please ask and do not assume.

To Keep Be The Glory

Jun2u,

You missed post 81 on page 3. All of your answers are there. In fact, there is enough material there to destroy any pretense of any sabbath keeper here. None, absolutely none, have refuted even one Scripture in post 81. Most are simply too lazy to even read it, their meager attention spans cannot grasp it. Besides, it is of no value to them since they have no intention of changing their minds about anything.

The sabbath wasn't given until Exodus 16:23. God never changed the sabbath from where it is to another day of the week - I'd like to see your Scriptures that show otherwise. No one has to keep the sabbath anymore, not Jews, not Gentiles, no one. Sabbath Keeping has nothing to do with salvation.

Zeke25

You will not regard or accept any answer, from scripture or otherwise. You refuse and deny the most obvious of scripture with your false theories and your false gospel of the Gentiles. Acting and preaching as though there is one gospel for the Jew, and another for the Gentile. As though they each have different problems which the Lord came to address in different manners for each of them. You deny the Sabbath existed before there ever was a Jew, which the scriptures clearly state. You deny it should be kept now when it will be kept even in the new heaven and new earth, which the scriptures clearly state. You also deny that any reference to keeping the ten commandments in the new testament is refering to the ten simply because it teaches that love is the fulfillment of the law. Even though the old testament says the same thing many times over, but it never meant that the ten were abolished. You claim that giving the new commandments of loving God and your neighbor negate the ten, without any scriptural evidence to that effect. Thus you will of course ignore the following upon these false grounds.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

That's right, admonished to keep the commandments of God right up to the last book and chapter of the bible. Go ahead, maintain your denial of the truth of scripture right in front of your face.

Keeth,

Come on Keeth. There is no such thing as the gospel of the Gentiles. Hmmm, that would mean there is a gospel of the nations. Doesn't compute.

I must have missed it. I didn't see Upp claim that there were two different gospels.

The Scriptures do not clearly state that there was a sabbath prior to Moses. I'd like to see your Bible. What translation are you using? You might want to save up and buy a good one.

There is no Scripture that states the sabbath will be kept in the New Heaven and Earth. In fact, it has already transpired. You were sleeping, you missed it.

As far as Revelation 12:17, 14:12, and 22:14 is concerned, Keeth, you need to do some Bible study without your helps from your denomination. Do some real Bible study. These verses in Revelation do not state that the sabbath is one of the commandments. Where do you find God's commandments? I know, you don't know. You only think you know. Well, here is one for you that you don't know about: John 6:29 KJV, "[Yahoshua] answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."

Zeke25

 

[Phoneman777]

Upp,

Nope. They cannot answer. On page 8 of this thread, post #226, phoneman admitted that he had no Scriptural support whatsoever for his fantasy doctrines. Yet he continues to preach his false message from some other source, because it certainly doesn't come from the Bible. I guess it makes him happy.

Zeke25

I have demonstrated that the Ten Commandments existed BEFORE Sinai and since the Sabbath was created in Eden, it stands to reason that it was also included as one of the "commandments, statutes, and laws" of God which Abraham (and all other believers) observed.

Your position is as pathetic as was the Israelites at Carmel who tried to worship both the Lord and Baal. Why don't you publicly declare that Christians may freely break all Ten Commandments as freely as you claim we may ignore the Sabbath, if you truly believe your rhetoric that the Ten Commandments don't apply to Christians? C'mon, Zeke, tell us that we may kill, steal, lie, sleep with one another's wife, worship Satan, will you? Stop all this cowardly double talk and put your money where your mouth is. If we are not obligated to keep the Ten Commandments, either declare to us that we may break them or stop accusing others of false teaching.

 

[zeke25]

I have demonstrated that the Ten Commandments existed BEFORE Sinai and since the Sabbath was created in Eden, it stands to reason that it was also included as one of the "commandments, statutes, and laws" of God which Abraham (and all other believers) observed.

Your position is as pathetic as was the Israelites at Carmel who tried to worship both the Lord and Baal. Why don't you publicly declare that Christians may freely break all Ten Commandments as freely as you claim we may ignore the Sabbath, if you truly believe your rhetoric that the Ten Commandments don't apply to Christians?

Phoneguy,

You're not listening. You've asked me another question without answering one for me yet. Remember, this is supposed to be a two-way conversation, you haven't got the hang of that yet.

Answer my question and I'll answer one of yours.

Furthermore, you can demonstrate all you want. But demonstrating doesn't establish the 10 commandments prior to Sinai nor does it have the sabbath start in Eden. Scripture is our authority, not your demonstrations.

Zeke25

 

[Phoneman777]

Phoneguy,

You're not listening. You've asked me another question without answering one for me yet. Remember, this is supposed to be a two-way conversation, you haven't got the hang of that yet.

Answer my question and I'll answer one of yours.

Furthermore, you can demonstrate all you want. But demonstrating doesn't establish the 10 commandments prior to Sinai nor does it have the sabbath start in Eden. Scripture is our authority, not your demonstrations.

Zeke25

"How long halt ye between two opinions?" Only a coward tries to talk out of both sides of his mouth. If we can freely break the rest of the Ten Commandments as freely as you claim we may break the Sabbath commandment, then pluck up some courage and publicly declare it. Stop trying to walk down both sides of the street.

 

[UppsalaDragby]

You will not regard or accept any answer, from scripture or otherwise.

Totally incorrect! Don't make assertions that you cannot support.

You refuse and deny the most obvious of scripture with your false theories and your false gospel of the Gentiles.

What "false gospel of the Gentiles" are you referring to?

And what "theories" have I presented here that lack scriptural support?

If anything I have written here deviates from scripture then please point it out, with scripture, instead of simply labeling it as something it is not. I have done you, and all other sabbatarians here the courtesy of backing up my claims with biblical evidence, so why can't you respond accordingly?
To me it seems as though this discussion is deteriorating into rhetoric, rather than what it should be - cases presented by both sides that can be scrutinized against our common authority - scripture!

Now please USE scripture, or simply admit, if indeed you profess to maintain the level of honesty that righteousness requires, that you CANNOT!

Acting and preaching as though there is one gospel for the Jew, and another for the Gentile. As though they each have different problems which the Lord came to address in different manners for each of them.

I do NOT preach anything of the sort! What do you base that notion on??? In fact I left a forum where I was a moderator in PROTEST because I argued against the site owner that there was only ONE gospel given to all, rather than two. I can give you the link if you want!

You deny the Sabbath existed before there ever was a Jew, which the scriptures clearly state.

Well you show me exactly where the scriptures state that the sabbath existed before there was a Jew and I will show you where scripture explicitly proves that it was not given to the Jews, nor known to any of the patriarchs before Sinai... how about that?

Do you accept the challenge, or do you not?

You deny it should be kept now when it will be kept even in the new heaven and new earth, which the scriptures clearly state.

No they do NOT! I expect you are referring to Isaiah 66. Am I right or am I right??

The word "sabbath" is used there as a measurement of TIME, just as is the "new moon" used in that context. Surprisingly, we don't see many SDAs adamently argueing that there will be new moon festivals in the new earth!

Perhaps you should consider whether or not you should claim that new moon festivals are part of the "ceremonial" laws .. in order to defend your doctrine!

You also deny that any reference to keeping the ten commandments in the new testament is refering to the ten simply because it teaches that love is the fulfillment of the law.

Really?? Any reference??? show me the so-called "reference" and explain excatly what you think I am denying.

Even though the old testament says the same thing many times over, but it never meant that the ten were abolished.

That is nothing more than a strawman.

Firstly, I NEVER claimed that the Mosaic law was "abolished", did I? The fact that it no longer applies to those who are in Christ does not mean that they have been abolished. Please acknowledge this!

Secondly, scripture teaches us that NOTHING in the OT has been abolished, which includes circumcision, trimming beards, stoning law-breakers, or anything else you falsely claim is part of the so-called "ceremonial" law.

You claim that giving the new commandments of loving God and your neighbor negate the ten, without any scriptural evidence to that effect.

No I don't! Please don't use arguments you cannot support.

Thus you will of course ignore the following upon these false grounds.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

I haven't "ignored" anything. What commandments do Revelation 12 refer to? Does the word "ten" exist in the text? If not, then why assume that the author (John) forgot to put it there? This is what JOHN himself wrote concering this:
"And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us."

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Exactly!

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Again, exactly!

That's right, admonished to keep the commandments of God right up to the last book and chapter of the bible. Go ahead, maintain your denial of the truth of scripture right in front of your face.

And once again, exactly.... unless of course you are trying to imply that what I advocate is that we should NOT keep the commmandments of God.

I have demonstrated that the Ten Commandments existed BEFORE Sinai and since the Sabbath was created in Eden, it stands to reason that it was also included as one of the "commandments, statutes, and laws" of God which Abraham (and all other believers) observed.

Phoneman777

No you haven't!!! There is nothing in scripture that you can point to that supports such an idea.

I can prove you wrong, and I will. Care to take up the challenge?

If you do, then, as the asserter here, start off by showing me where scripture tells us that the 10 commandments existed before Sinai (hint: it doesn't).

 

[Keeth]

Keeth,

Come on Keeth. There is no such thing as the gospel of the Gentiles. Hmmm, that would mean there is a gospel of the nations. Doesn't compute.

I must have missed it. I didn't see Upp claim that there were two different gospels.

The Scriptures do not clearly state that there was a sabbath prior to Moses. I'd like to see your Bible. What translation are you using? You might want to save up and buy a good one.

There is no Scripture that states the sabbath will be kept in the New Heaven and Earth. In fact, it has already transpired. You were sleeping, you missed it.

As far as Revelation 12:17, 14:12, and 22:14 is concerned, Keeth, you need to do some Bible study without your helps from your denomination. Do some real Bible study. These verses in Revelation do not state that the sabbath is one of the commandments. Where do you find God's commandments? I know, you don't know. You only think you know. Well, here is one for you that you don't know about: John 6:29 KJV, "[Yahoshua] answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."

Zeke25

Like I said, denial, denial, denial. Now, the new heaven and new earth have already been created, and countless billions of people don't even know it, how about that.

Rev 21:1 ¶ And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. 5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. 6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. 7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. 8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. 9 ¶ And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb’s wife. 10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, 11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; 12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: 13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates. 14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. 15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof. 16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal. 17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel. 18 And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass. 19 And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald; 20 The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst. 21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass. 22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. 23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. 24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. 25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. 26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it. 27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

Most of us seem to have forgotten, just exactly when did the above already happen again?

As far as the two gospels, are you saying there are two gospels, or denying it? If the Jews still have to keep the law, but Gentiles don't, then there are two different gospels.

The scriptures do absolutely and conclusively state that the seventh day Sabbath was established at creation in a yet perfect world. You simply deny this and all other scripture which does not fit what you have chosen to beleive and promolgate.

 

[zeke25]

"How long halt ye between two opinions?" Only a coward tries to talk out of both sides of his mouth. If we can freely break the rest of the Ten Commandments as freely as you claim we may break the Sabbath commandment, then pluck up some courage and publicly declare it. Stop trying to walk down both sides of the street.

Phoneguy,

Let me get this straight. You constantly engage in personal attacks, rather than debate the doctrine. Yet you continue, in your sophomoric manner, to engage in personal slander and call me a coward.

You refuse to have a two-way conversation. Yet I'm supposed to be the coward.

You refuse to answer my two questions to bring transparency to this conversion. Yet I'm supposed to be the coward.
In case you forgot, here are my two questions: (1) Do you recommend that we follow the teachings of the Apostle Paul? (2) Do you recommend that we follow the teachings of Ellen G. White?

Your response had four sentences and each was a lie. There is nothing truthful that you have said in this post. Liars are afraid to debate the doctrine, so they make up lies. Yet I'm supposed to be the coward.

Zeke25

Like I said, denial, denial, denial. Now, the new heaven and new earth have already been created, and countless billions of people don't even know it, how about that.

Rev 21:1 ¶ And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. 5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. 6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. 7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. 8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. 9 ¶ And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb’s wife. 10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, 11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; 12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: 13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates. 14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. 15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof. 16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal. 17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel. 18 And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass. 19 And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald; 20 The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst. 21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass. 22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. 23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. 24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. 25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. 26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it. 27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

Most of us seem to have forgotten, just exactly when did the above already happen again?

As far as the two gospels, are you saying there are two gospels, or denying it? If the Jews still have to keep the law, but Gentiles don't, then there are two different gospels.

The scriptures do absolutely and conclusively state that the seventh day Sabbath was established at creation in a yet perfect world. You simply deny this and all other scripture which does not fit what you have chosen to beleive and promolgate.

Keeth,

So, you bring forth your unsupportable preterist doctrine. Did you notice that your verse one says there was no more sea. I live on the seacoast. It looks like plenty of it is still there to me. Come take a look, see for yourself.

The 7th day sabbath was not established at creation. And I see that you have failed to provide a Scripture to prove your point of view. But I know why. There is no Scripture that supports your point of view. Imagine that.

Zeke25

 

[Phoneman777]

Phoneguy,

Let me get this straight. You constantly engage in personal attacks, rather than debate the doctrine. Yet you continue, in your sophomoric manner, to engage in personal slander and call me a coward.

You refuse to have a two-way conversation. Yet I'm supposed to be the coward.

You refuse to answer my two questions to bring transparency to this conversion. Yet I'm supposed to be the coward.
In case you forgot, here are my two questions: (1) Do you recommend that we follow the teachings of the Apostle Paul? (2) Do you recommend that we follow the teachings of Ellen G. White?

Your response had four sentences and each was a lie. There is nothing truthful that you have said in this post. Liars are afraid to debate the doctrine, so they make up lies. Yet I'm supposed to be the coward.

Zeke25

Keeth,

So, you bring forth your unsupportable preterist doctrine. Did you notice that your verse one says there was no more sea. I live on the seacoast. It looks like plenty of it is still there to me. Come take a look, see for yourself.

The 7th day sabbath was not established at creation. And I see that you have failed to provide a Scripture to prove your point of view. But I know why. There is no Scripture that supports your point of view. Imagine that.

Zeke25

Attack? Brother, please don't confuse "attack" with "challenge" in order to play the victim and continue to sit on the fence. As long as you refuse to publicly declare that we may freely break all the other Ten Commandments as freely as you claim we may break the Sabbath, your doctrinal rhetoric stands exposed as nothing more than a cacophony of confusion.

 

[heretoeternity]

Phoneguy,

Let me get this straight. You constantly engage in personal attacks, rather than debate the doctrine. Yet you continue, in your sophomoric manner, to engage in personal slander and call me a coward.

You refuse to have a two-way conversation. Yet I'm supposed to be the coward.

You refuse to answer my two questions to bring transparency to this conversion. Yet I'm supposed to be the coward.
In case you forgot, here are my two questions: (1) Do you recommend that we follow the teachings of the Apostle Paul? (2) Do you recommend that we follow the teachings of Ellen G. White?

Your response had four sentences and each was a lie. There is nothing truthful that you have said in this post. Liars are afraid to debate the doctrine, so they make up lies. Yet I'm supposed to be the coward.

Zeke25

Keeth,

So, you bring forth your unsupportable preterist doctrine. Did you notice that your verse one says there was no more sea. I live on the seacoast. It looks like plenty of it is still there to me. Come take a look, see for yourself.

The 7th day sabbath was not established at creation. And I see that you have failed to provide a Scripture to prove your point of view. But I know why. There is no Scripture that supports your point of view. Imagine that.

Zeke25













The Holy day of rest (Sabbath) was certainly brought in at Creation, when God created the seventh day of the first week as a holy day of rest and He set it aside for Holy purchases (sanctified)...Genesis 2..God himself rested on this day, blessed the day and sanctified it...so anyone who wants to argue with God on this subject better do a reality check of their spirituality and figure out what god(s) they are following...it sure isn't the Christian God....

A true Christian knows salvation is through the Son of God, His grace and commandments, and NOT the sungod/satan and his days of sunday, dec 25th and easter, all of which are non Biblical and of pagan origin.

 

[justaname]

Attack? Brother, please don't confuse "attack" with "challenge" in order to play the victim and continue to sit on the fence. As long as you refuse to publicly declare that we may freely break all the other Ten Commandments as freely as you claim we may break the Sabbath, your doctrinal rhetoric stands exposed as nothing more than a cacophony of confusion.

Homosexuality is a sin that is not included in the ten. According to your logic, it should be able to be practiced. As well as pride...

It is not for the one who loves God to act against Him, yet the Sabbath is for the nation people of Israel.

 

[zeke25]

Phoneguy,

Let me get this straight. You constantly engage in personal attacks, rather than debate the doctrine. Yet you continue, in your sophomoric manner, to engage in personal slander and call me a coward.

You refuse to have a two-way conversation. Yet I'm supposed to be the coward.

You refuse to answer my two questions to bring transparency to this conversion. Yet I'm supposed to be the coward.
In case you forgot, here are my two questions: (1) Do you recommend that we follow the teachings of the Apostle Paul? (2) Do you recommend that we follow the teachings of Ellen G. White?

Your response had four sentences and each was a lie. There is nothing truthful that you have said in this post. Liars are afraid to debate the doctrine, so they make up lies. Yet I'm supposed to be the coward.

Zeke25

Keeth,

So, you bring forth your unsupportable preterist doctrine. Did you notice that your verse one says there was no more sea. I live on the seacoast. It looks like plenty of it is still there to me. Come take a look, see for yourself.

The 7th day sabbath was not established at creation. And I see that you have failed to provide a Scripture to prove your point of view. But I know why. There is no Scripture that supports your point of view. Imagine that.

Zeke25













The Holy day of rest (Sabbath) was certainly brought in at Creation, when God created the seventh day of the first week as a holy day of rest and He set it aside for Holy purchases (sanctified)...Genesis 2..God himself rested on this day, blessed the day and sanctified it...so anyone who wants to argue with God on this subject better do a reality check of their spirituality and figure out what god(s) they are following...it sure isn't the Christian God....

A true Christian knows salvation is through the Son of God, His grace and commandments, and NOT the sungod/satan and his days of sunday, dec 25th and easter, all of which are non Biblical and of pagan origin.

heretoeternity,

I refer you to this thread, page 3, post 81, part I, para 4 & 5, and part II, para 2 & 3. The 7th day sabbath was not instituted during Creation Week.

heretoeternity said: "so anyone who wants to argue with God on this subject better do a reality check of their spirituality and figure out what god(s) they are following...it sure isn't the Christian God...."

Zeke25 replies: Be careful in your assessment, you condemn yourself. You have made belief in the seventh day sabbath being instituted during Creation Week a litmus test for whether one is a Christian or not. The forum rules prevent me from testing your Christianity. Believe me, I would ask you questions that you would not even fathom. Repent of your litmus test approach.

Zeke25

 

[heretoeternity]

Before one can test someones "christianity", Zeke you should read the Bible carefully and pray to have your eyes opened to the truth, and to be able to understand it..it is not that complicated. But your seem to have problems understanding the basic English in the word of God...if anyone wishes to be a Christian they should get rid of all the false teachings they have endured from the Roman based mainstream "christianity", and start reading and understanding the simple word of God, as it is written...If anyone cannot understand the simple word of God, they have a spirit other than the Spirit of God leading them...
A word of advice Zeke, instead of looking for ways to get out of keeping God's Holy word and Commandments you should look for ways to repent and keep His Holy word if you truly want to walk the Christian walk....

And remember always, Salvation is through the Son of God, His grace and Commandments, and NOT the sungod/satan and his days of sunday, dec 25th and easter, all of which are non Biblical and of pagan nature.