Originally Posted by winsome View PostWhere have I focussed entirely on the symbol rather than what it is meant to symbolise?Here?“Baptism – water baptism – is what incorporates us into the New Covenant. It is the equivalent of circumcision under the Abramic covenant. Through baptism we are freed from sin and reborn as children of God.”
(SealedEternal;51205)
The problem is that this opinion of yours is not taught in scripture. Scripture says that immersion of God's Spirit into our hearts is what brings us into the New Covenant, and frees us from our enslavement to sin, and that the ritual of washing dirt from the flesh was to prepare the way for the true immersion and bring people to repentance, but the ritual itself has nothing to do with salvation except to teach the greater truth.
I am going away for a few days and don't have time to go through the whole of your post so I think we are going to have to just disagree on this. But I would just like to go into this one bit and leave it there.You say this "opinion" is not taught in scripture. There are three things I said here regarding what happens when we are baptised:1. This is how we enter the New Covenant3. We are freed from sin.2. We are reborn as children of God1. This is how we enter the New Covenant Baptism makes us members of the Body of Christ “There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope of your calling, one Lord, one faith, one baptism….” (Eph 4:4-5)“For in the one Spirit we were all baptised into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.” (1Cor 12;13)“Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ?” (1Cor 6:15)Baptism brings us into the New Covenant. When a Gentile wished to become a Jew (& hence into the Old Covenant(s) a male underwent circumcision and a mikvah, a female a mikvah. At the Council of Jerusalem (Acts 15) the requirement for (physical) circumcision was dispensed with. This left the mikvah, that is baptism.“In him also you were circumcised with a spiritual circumcision, by putting off the body of the flesh in the circumcision of Christ; when you were buried with him in baptism, you were also raised with him through faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.” (Col 2:11-12) This clearly links a “spiritual circumcision” with baptism, again a link from baptism to the covenant, not through physical circumcision but a spiritual one.2.We are freed from sinAt Pentecost Peter says “Repent, and be baptised every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins may be forgiven;” (Acts 2:38)When recalling his baptism Paul reports Ananias to him “And now why do you delay? Get up, be baptised, and have your sins washed away, calling on his name.’” (Acts 22:16)“let us approach with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean [sin removed] from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water [baptism with water]”. (Heb 10:22)3. We are reborn as children of God“for in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith." (Gal 3:26)How do we become “in Christ” Paul continues“As many of you as were baptised into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is no longer Jew or Greek, there is no longer slave or free, there is no longer male and female; for all of you are one in Christ Jesus.” (Gal 3:27-28) “he saved us, not because of any works of righteousness that we had done, but according to his mercy, through the water of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit. This Spirit he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Saviour, so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.” (Ti 3:5-7)You see it is through baptism, “the water of rebirth” that we become heirs – by the renewal of the Holy Spirit
(SealedEternal;51205)
The problem is that this opinion of yours is not taught in scripture. Scripture says that immersion of God's Spirit into our hearts is what brings us into the New Covenant, and frees us from our enslavement to sin, and that the ritual of washing dirt from the flesh was to prepare the way for the true immersion and bring people to repentance, but the ritual itself has nothing to do with salvation except to teach the greater truth.
I am going away for a few days and don't have time to go through the whole of your post so I think we are going to have to just disagree on this. But I would just like to go into this one bit and leave it there.You say this "opinion" is not taught in scripture. There are three things I said here regarding what happens when we are baptised:1. This is how we enter the New Covenant3. We are freed from sin.2. We are reborn as children of God1. This is how we enter the New Covenant Baptism makes us members of the Body of Christ “There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope of your calling, one Lord, one faith, one baptism….” (Eph 4:4-5)“For in the one Spirit we were all baptised into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.” (1Cor 12;13)“Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ?” (1Cor 6:15)Baptism brings us into the New Covenant. When a Gentile wished to become a Jew (& hence into the Old Covenant(s) a male underwent circumcision and a mikvah, a female a mikvah. At the Council of Jerusalem (Acts 15) the requirement for (physical) circumcision was dispensed with. This left the mikvah, that is baptism.“In him also you were circumcised with a spiritual circumcision, by putting off the body of the flesh in the circumcision of Christ; when you were buried with him in baptism, you were also raised with him through faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.” (Col 2:11-12) This clearly links a “spiritual circumcision” with baptism, again a link from baptism to the covenant, not through physical circumcision but a spiritual one.2.We are freed from sinAt Pentecost Peter says “Repent, and be baptised every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins may be forgiven;” (Acts 2:38)When recalling his baptism Paul reports Ananias to him “And now why do you delay? Get up, be baptised, and have your sins washed away, calling on his name.’” (Acts 22:16)“let us approach with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean [sin removed] from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water [baptism with water]”. (Heb 10:22)3. We are reborn as children of God“for in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith." (Gal 3:26)How do we become “in Christ” Paul continues“As many of you as were baptised into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is no longer Jew or Greek, there is no longer slave or free, there is no longer male and female; for all of you are one in Christ Jesus.” (Gal 3:27-28) “he saved us, not because of any works of righteousness that we had done, but according to his mercy, through the water of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit. This Spirit he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Saviour, so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.” (Ti 3:5-7)You see it is through baptism, “the water of rebirth” that we become heirs – by the renewal of the Holy Spirit
