SALVATION OF ANIMALS

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keithr

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Did you LEARN God CREATED a “particular” PLACE “FOR” particular beings?

A reminder…
Rev 12:
[10] And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
[14] And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
[15] And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Revelation is full of symbolism. A reminder, Revelation 1:1 (KJV):

(1) The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:​

The revelation was told in signs and symbols, with literal descriptions being the exception and only used when unavoidable, or to explain the symbolism. The "lake of fire and sulphur" was a symbol of utter destruction and death. The symbol is clearly explained in verse 14 - it represents death - the second death that some people will experience, and it is an eternal death and destruction for there will not be a second sacrifice to redeem them (Jesus was dead, but now he is immortal and lives forever - Revelation 1:18 - so he cannot and will not sacrifice his life again).

Just as the lake of fire is symbolic, so is the beast that is thrown into it symbolic. That beast is described in Revelation 17:

(3) He carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness. I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet-colored beast, full of blasphemous names, having seven heads and ten horns.

The beast will be destroyed, Revelation 17:8-18 (WEB):

(8) The beast that you saw was, and is not; and is about to come up out of the abyss and to go into destruction. Those who dwell on the earth and whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will marvel when they see that the beast was, and is not, and shall be present.​

So the casting of the beast into the lake of fire is symbolic of the beast being destroyed. The beast is symbolic (as is the woman that sits on the beast), so it can't go to a literal place:

(9) Here is the mind that has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits.​
(10) They are seven kings. Five have fallen, the one is, the other has not yet come. When he comes, he must continue a little while.​
(11) The beast that was, and is not, is himself also an eighth, and is of the seven; and he goes to destruction.​
(12) The ten horns that you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority as kings, with the beast, for one hour.​
(13) These have one mind, and they give their power and authority to the beast.​
(14) These will war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings, and those who are with him are called chosen and faithful.”​
(15) He said to me, “The waters which you saw, where the prostitute sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations, and languages.​
(16) The ten horns which you saw, and the beast, these will hate the prostitute, will make her desolate, will strip her naked, will eat her flesh, and will burn her utterly with fire.​
(17) For God has put in their hearts to do what he has in mind, to be of one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God should be accomplished.​
(18) The woman whom you saw is the great city, which reigns over the kings of the earth.”​

God Himself IS Present EVERYWHERE, there IS a possibility for REDEMPTION of Gods created Beings TO BECOME MADE “redeemed”….

Evil……shall BE WITHOUT God, Wherever He IS NOT.
You just said that God is everywhere, so there is nowhere where "he is not"! You're effectively saying that evil will no longer exist, which is correct. :dusted:
 
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Peterlag

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That is not in harmony with what Paul taught. 1 Corinthians 15:51 (WEB):

(51) Behold, I tell you a mystery. We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,​

He describes those Christians that have died as being asleep, not awake in heaven.

1 Corinthians 15:17-18 (WEB):
(17) If Christ has not been raised, your faith is vain; you are still in your sins.​
(18) Then they also who are fallen asleep in Christ have perished.​

If Jesus had not been resurrected (restored to life) then that would have meant that the sacrifice of his life was not accepted by God, because Jesus must have sinned, and the penalty for sin is death. That is why Jesus was so stressed in the garden of Gethsemane that he sweated blood. He knew that if he had sinned in any way that he would go into eternal death, into extinction of life. He also knew it would have meant eternal death for all mankind too, hence Paul says that all Christians that have died will also have perished, because they would not be resurrected (restored to life) at a later time.

1 Corinthians 15:20 (WEB):
(20) But now Christ has been raised from the dead. He became the first fruits of those who are asleep.​

Resurrection is a rising up from being dead. Those who are asleep are dead, i.e. they are not living, and they have no thoughts. (Psalms 146:4, WEB, "His spirit departs, and he returns to the earth. In that very day, his thoughts perish".)

1 Corinthians 15:22-23 (WEB):
(22) For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.​
(23) But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, then those who are Christ’s, at his coming.​

Jesus was the first fruits, the first to be resurrected. The whole of the Christian church will be resurrected "at his coming", when Jesus returns for the church. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 (WEB):

(15) For this we tell you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will in no way precede those who have fallen asleep.​
(16) For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with God’s trumpet. The dead in Christ will rise first,​
(17) then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. So we will be with the Lord forever.​

As Paul said in the first verse I quoted above, not all Christians will die and sleep in death waiting for the resurrection. Those that are still living when Jesus returns will not die but they will be instantly changed to be like those resurrected saints. Those that have died are not in heaven, they are dead - they're in a dormant state (sleeping) and have no thoughts.
I put this on 3 different Facebook Christian sites and also sent it to a few of my friends. I sent it with this heading...

How did the Churches miss this?

I did not write any of this, but saw it today online.
 

Taken

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Revelation is full of symbolism.

If you are seeing “symbolisms” in Revelations….But KNOW NOT what the “symbolism” compares to such OTHER LIKENESS AND it’s EFFECTS on the OTHER LIKENESS…

What do YOU DO with such things you Call “symbolism’s” in a Book expressly called…
REVELATIONS, which means to REVEAL?


A reminder, Revelation 1:1 (KJV):

(1) The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:​

Well aware of the SOURCE of WHO is REVEALING, and in what MANNER, being by God (Source), TO His Word (Jesus), TO His Power (Christ), TO His Servant (John), TO all who have freely CHOSEN to BE Servants OF God….and personally that INCLUDES ME…TO HAVE EXPRESSLY REVEALED KNOWLEDGE…that IS WHAT TO YOU…?
All you have said is “symbolism”, AS IF a dismissive side note.

A Powerful Message FROM God REVEALING things that MUST and SHALL come to pass…
I take very seriously.

The revelation was told in signs and symbols, with literal descriptions being the exception and only used when unavoidable, or to explain the symbolism.

Nothing new…An EXPLANATION…is the key to a CONCLUSION of UNDERSTANDING….

Nothing new…signs and symbols are repeatedly used in the KNOWLEDGE in Scripture….

Nothing new…the meanings, the understandings of the meanings of Scriptural Knowledge…
* IS … SUPPOSED to be a MYSTERY to THOSE who STAND AGAINST GOD.
* IS … SUPPOSED to be a Wonderment to THOSE who STAND WITH GOD…so much a wonderment … SUCH individuals ACTUALLY ASK GOD HIMSELF what is HIS UNDERSTANDING!


DO YOU? Or do you guess, Or do you simply dismiss signs AS Symbolism AS oh well?

It is but a FEW men who are still ALIVE in their flesh body’s, WHO HAVE BEEN MADE, wholly, whole….Body, Soul, Spirit…WHO have expressly DIRECT access Communication WITH God, and can ASK ANYTHING OF HIM.

I would gander a guess…OF the FEW WHO ARE MADE wholly, whole…A very SMALL percent are ASKING GOD for HIS Understanding of His Own Word…

Like uh, why bother, when commentators and books are so readily available from “other men” ….why directly ask God for THAT, when what men REALLY WANT…is Wealth, Power, Control, Health, big house, new car, win the lotto, pass a test, blah, blah….and thus that is what people routinely ASK (pray for)…. NOT His Understanding!

I read, studied, learned HOW and WHAT it meant, to submit unto God.
I read, studied, learned WHAT is Gods expectation FOR His adopted people to BE and DO and KNOW and UNDERSTAND….and HOW to accomplish THAT, which IS pleasing unto God.

Failing to to understand the signs and symbolism IS IGNORANCE.
God does NOT desire His people, His adopted people, to be IGNORANT.

The "lake of fire and sulphur" was a symbol of utter destruction and death.

SULPHUR is a putrid gagging odor, of which such odor is revealed in small amounts for men on the face of the earth, to readily experience, to KNOW and BE AWARE of its putrid VERY unpleasant odor.

Every Unsaved departed living soul SENT to hell, HAS BEEN and IS to this day, Experiencing the continual SMELL of SULPHUR, as one of their consequences FOR freely choosing to STAND AGAINST GOD.

Regarding the LAKE OF FIRE…
It is an eternal FIRE IN Hell.
* Body’s of human men (NOT made whole,)VOID of its Life (blood) shall be throw in, the Lake of Fire and burned.
* Departed unsaved souls of human men, (whose soul was NOT restored/saved), such souls SHALL become VOID of their LIFE (Gods Breath), which shall RETURN to God, the the LIFELESS SOUL be thrown into the Lake of Fire and burned.
* Angels who exercised their FREE WILL to STAND AGAINST GOD….ARE Spirits, who CAN NOT DIE…or BE DESTROYED…THEY shall be thrown into the LAKE of FIRE and continually burn, without ever dying, or being destroyed. FOREVER the SMOKE generated from their continual burning SHALL RISE UP TO the FACE of the Earth.

Rev 14:
[11] And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Destroyed IS what existed, exists not.
The Lake of Fire exists and continues to exist burning what is thrown into it, for ever generating smoke.

The Earth was once DESTROYED…
Because Earth IS DRY LAND…Once it was covered with WATER, the Earth was NOT Dry Land.
The Earth remained DESTROYED, Until God Himself assuaged the Water from covering the Earth.

The symbol is clearly explained in verse 14 - it represents death - the second death that some people will experience, and it is an eternal death and destruction for there will not be a second sacrifice to redeem them (Jesus was dead, but now he is immortal and lives forever - Revelation 1:18 - so he cannot and will not sacrifice his life again).

Well aware there IS mortal death, being secession of LIFE of a mortal body….
AND spiritual death, which simply means SEPARATION from God.

Umpteen mortal men are Physically ALIVE, yet Spiritually Dead (Separated) from God.

Reminder…
Christ Jesus does NOT SAVE the SAVED…He saves the Physically ALIVE, who are DEAD in their sins..(aka those having been AGAINST GOD…and making their plea of confession of Standing WITH God.)

Just as the lake of fire is symbolic, so is the beast that is thrown into it symbolic. That beast is described in Revelation 17:

Again…tossing around “symbolism” without understanding the “symbolism” leaves a gaping hole in the TRUTH and UNDERSTANDING thereof…God Desires HIS PEOPLE to NOT BE IGNORANT OF.

You just said that God is everywhere, so there is nowhere where "he is not"! You're effectively saying that evil will no longer exist, which is correct. :dusted:

The Secrets of God are His…until such time HE reveals them to mankind.

If you believe God is EVERYWHERE….”AND” is DISAPPOINTED, even ANGRY with what HE SEES EVERYWHERE….and FORETELLS of A CHANGE that WHERE He shall be, WHAT He shall see….WILL INCLUDE the SAME that has disappointed and angered Him…

I adamantly Disagree.
God absolutely HAS a PLAN for removing, discarding, covering, whatever you want to call it…EVERY retched, disgusting, wicked, evil thing ( that is passed the option of redemption ) …. FROM His Presence, FROM His Sight.

If you think God has some INTENT TO CONCLUDE HIS OWN VICTORY by Remaining present, watching over, observing that which is thrown in the LAKE OF FIRE…past the window/era of redemption.

Please share that REVELATION…and the PURPOSE thereof.

Glory to God,
Taken
 
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Ronald Nolette

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That is not in harmony with what Paul taught. 1 Corinthians 15:51 (WEB):

(51) Behold, I tell you a mystery. We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,​

He describes those Christians that have died as being asleep, not awake in heaven.

1 Corinthians 15:17-18 (WEB):
(17) If Christ has not been raised, your faith is vain; you are still in your sins.​
(18) Then they also who are fallen asleep in Christ have perished.​

If Jesus had not been resurrected (restored to life) then that would have meant that the sacrifice of his life was not accepted by God, because Jesus must have sinned, and the penalty for sin is death. That is why Jesus was so stressed in the garden of Gethsemane that he sweated blood. He knew that if he had sinned in any way that he would go into eternal death, into extinction of life. He also knew it would have meant eternal death for all mankind too, hence Paul says that all Christians that have died will also have perished, because they would not be resurrected (restored to life) at a later time.

1 Corinthians 15:20 (WEB):
(20) But now Christ has been raised from the dead. He became the first fruits of those who are asleep.​

Resurrection is a rising up from being dead. Those who are asleep are dead, i.e. they are not living, and they have no thoughts. (Psalms 146:4, WEB, "His spirit departs, and he returns to the earth. In that very day, his thoughts perish".)

1 Corinthians 15:22-23 (WEB):
(22) For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.​
(23) But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, then those who are Christ’s, at his coming.​

Jesus was the first fruits, the first to be resurrected. The whole of the Christian church will be resurrected "at his coming", when Jesus returns for the church. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 (WEB):

(15) For this we tell you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will in no way precede those who have fallen asleep.​
(16) For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with God’s trumpet. The dead in Christ will rise first,​
(17) then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. So we will be with the Lord forever.​

As Paul said in the first verse I quoted above, not all Christians will die and sleep in death waiting for the resurrection. Those that are still living when Jesus returns will not die but they will be instantly changed to be like those resurrected saints. Those that have died are not in heaven, they are dead - they're in a dormant state (sleeping) and have no thoughts.
YOu confuse the death of the body as cessation of identity and consciousness.

Physical death is described as sleep. But we also see that the aspirit and soul go to be with the Lord once the body "sleeps".

Hebrews 12:23
To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

Luke 16:20-27

Revelation 19

King James Version

19 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:
2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.
3 And again they said, Alleluia And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.
4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.
5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.
6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

Taking the whole counsel of the state of the dead, we know the body sleeps in death and the soul and spirit go to be with the Lord.
 

keithr

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Failing to to understand the signs and symbolism IS IGNORANCE.

SULPHUR is a putrid gagging odor, of which such odor is revealed in small amounts for men on the face of the earth, to readily experience, to KNOW and BE AWARE of its putrid VERY unpleasant odor.

Every Unsaved departed living soul SENT to hell, HAS BEEN and IS to this day, Experiencing the continual SMELL of SULPHUR, as one of their consequences FOR freely choosing to STAND AGAINST GOD.
It is a lake of fire and sulphur. Burning sulphur creates sulphur dioxide which is poisonus and will kill people. From Fire and Brimstone: SO2 as a Chemical Weapon in History:

Sulfur dioxide (SO2), a colorless, nonflammable gas produced by the burning of materials that contain sulfur, poses a significant risk to human health. Over long-term exposure, it is associated with an increased risk of adverse cardiopulmonary events, ischemic cerebrovascular events, and oxidative damage. Increases as little as 100 µg/m3 in the ambient environment are associated with increased mortality. Sulfur dioxide can be fatal in acute doses as well. In a high enough inhaled concentration, it will rapidly deposit on the mucus membrane of the upper respiratory tract. A highly soluble substance, SO2 is rapidly hydrated into a mix of sulfite, bisulfite, sulfonate, and hydrogen ions that easily diffuse into the bloodstream. Those affected experience burning of the airways, chest tightness, dyspnea, severe airway obstruction, sloughing of the respiratory mucosa, bronchial plugging, and hemorrhagic pulmonary edema, often leading to death secondary to asphyxia. Even air that contains approximately 500 ppm of SO2 may debilitate a subject in an irresistible fit of coughing. If the patient survives their initial exposure, they may be at a risk of chronic sequelae, including pneumonia, for months.​

From Canadian Centre for Occupational Health and Safety:
  • Inhalation: VERY TOXIC, can cause death. Can cause severe irritation of the nose and throat. At high concentrations: can cause life-threatening accumulation of fluid in the lungs (pulmonary edema). Symptoms may include coughing, shortness of breath, difficult breathing and tightness in the chest. A single exposure to a high concentration can cause a long-lasting condition like asthma. If this occurs, many things like other chemicals or cold temperatures can easily irritate the airways. Symptoms may include shortness of breath, tightness in the chest and wheezing. [Reactive Airways Dysfunction Syndrome (RADS)].
  • Skin Contact: CORROSIVE. The gas irritates or burns the skin. Permanent scarring can result. Direct contact with the liquefied gas can chill or freeze the skin (frostbite). Symptoms of mild frostbite include numbness, prickling and itching. Symptoms of more severe frostbite include a burning sensation and stiffness. The skin may become waxy white or yellow. Blistering, tissue death and infection may develop in severe cases.
  • Eye Contact: CORROSIVE. The gas irritates or burns the eyes. Permanent damage including blindness can result. Direct contact with the liquefied gas can freeze the eye. Permanent eye damage or blindness can result.
When God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah with burning sulphur it even left the land desolate:

Deuteronomy 29:23 (WEB):
(23) and that all of its land is sulfur, salt, and burning, that it is not sown, doesn’t produce, nor does any grass grow in it, like the overthrow of Sodom, Gomorrah, Admah, and Zeboiim, which Yahweh overthrew in his anger, and in his wrath;​
Deuteronomy 32:32 (WEB):
(32) For their vine is of the vine of Sodom, of the fields of Gomorrah. Their grapes are poison grapes. Their clusters are bitter.​
Zephaniah 2:9 (WEB):
(9) Therefore as I live, says Yahweh of Armies, the God of Israel, surely Moab will be as Sodom, and the children of Ammon as Gomorrah, a possession of nettles, and salt pits, and a perpetual desolation. The remnant of my people will plunder them, and the survivors of my nation will inherit them.​

If the fire doesn't kill you first then the burning sulphur will. As I said, fire and brimstone is symbolic of death and destruction.

Regarding the LAKE OF FIRE…
It is an eternal FIRE IN Hell.
That can't be true, because hell is thrown into the lake of fire (symbolically, but you say literally ;)) - Revelation 20:14 (KJV):

(14) And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.​

Well aware there IS mortal death, being secession of LIFE of a mortal body….
AND spiritual death, which simply means SEPARATION from God.
Please quote at least one Bible verse where it says that. I can't find any.

If you believe God is EVERYWHERE….”AND” is DISAPPOINTED, even ANGRY with what HE SEES EVERYWHERE….and FORETELLS of A CHANGE that WHERE He shall be, WHAT He shall see….WILL INCLUDE the SAME that has disappointed and angered Him…
I don't believe that. You seem to think that God will eternally torture people that he is not happy with, that don't come up to His required standards, and then add that He won't go there to watch it happening, even though it will require Him to eternally perform a miracle to make it happen (to continuously burn bodies yet prevent them from being consumed). How can you believe that?

John 3:16 (WEB):
(16) For God so loved the world {mankind}, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life.​
(Note it says that those who don't believe in Jesus would perish, not live forever and be tortured.)

1 John 4:8 (WEB):
(8) He who doesn’t love doesn’t know God, for God is love.​
1 John 4:16 (WEB):
(16) We know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and he who remains in love remains in God, and God remains in him.​
2 Peter 3:9 (WEB):
(9) The Lord is not slow concerning his promise, as some count slowness; but is patient with us, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.​

God is love and He loves us more than we can imagine. He would not condemn anybody to be tortured in fire and sulphur for all eternity. God condemned the Israelites for causing their children to be sacrificed in fire - Jeremiah 32:35 (WEB):

(35) They built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through fire to Molech; which I didn’t command them. It didn’t even come into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.”​

God considered that an abomination, and something that never came into His thoughts. He certainly wouldn't have said that knowing that He was planning to do far worse to millions of people.

Leviticus 18:21 (WEB):
(21) “‘You shall not give any of your children as a sacrifice to Molech. You shall not profane the name of your God. I am Yahweh.​

Believing that God will cause millions of people to live forever being tormented in fire profanes the name of God.

If you think God has some INTENT TO CONCLUDE HIS OWN VICTORY by Remaining present, watching over, observing that which is thrown in the LAKE OF FIRE…past the window/era of redemption.

Please share that REVELATION…and the PURPOSE thereof.
I most certainly don't think that. Do you really think that for God, out of site is out of mind? Again, I consider that an insult to the good name of God.
 
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Cassandra

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Two different events.

Jesus’ soul was in paradise on HIS bodily death day.

Jesus’ body had not been killed, when Lazarus died, when rich man died.

You mention “parable”… BECAUSE?

What do you believe “THAT PARABLE Jesus spoke about Lazarus MEANT”?

Fake story…or LITERAL event?

God Bless you.

Glory to God,
Taken
I think I wrote it upthread Do you want me to recopy it?
As for the Rich Man and Lazarus
Jesus is speaking of the Jewish nation---they had Moses and the Prophets, but they didn't pay any attention to them.
Here are the 5 brothers. Pharisees Essenes, , Saducees and Herodians and Zealots
From the parable:
Luke 18:27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ (Doesn't God forbid the living speaking to the dead, so why would he ask Lazarus to go to his brothers?)
29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’
30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’
31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

. They still were not convinced when Lazarus was resurrected.
John 11: 11-14
11 After he had said this, he went on to tell them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I am going there to wake him up.”
[12] Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. [13] Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. [14] Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

And when He arrived , He saw Martha who said:
20 Then Martha, as soon as she heard that Jesus was coming, went and met Him, but Mary was sitting in the house. 21 Now Martha said to Jesus, “Lord, if You had been here, my brother would not have died. 22 But even now I know that whatever You ask of God, God will give You.”23 Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.” 24 Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

So Jesus said He was going to awaken Lazarus, and Martha said she knew he would be resurrected on the last day.!!!!

If I had been Lazarus, I would've been madder than a wet hen if I'd been pulled out of the Kingdom to come back here, but he wasn't brought back from Heaven. Jesus awoke him like He said He was going to , and not a word from Lazarus about Heaven.
 

Cassandra

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You're wrong about paradise. The scriptures say it IS the third heaven.

2 Cor:2-4

2I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. 3And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) 4How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
Jesus had not ascended to His Father until after the resurrection.

Also no one is immortal but God--you are mortal. You have an endng. If it is the will of God that you are granted eternal life, you will be.
It was Satan that told Eve "Ye shall not surely die." God said If you eat of the tree, you will die. Eternal suffering is not death --it is eternal suffering. Look at John 3:16

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

So that means those that don't believe in Him shall perish, not be in an eternal state of perishing.

And punctuation was placed in the Bible --it wasn't there in the Greek.
 
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keithr

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YOu confuse the death of the body as cessation of identity and consciousness.
I find it confusing that you don't think that a person's thoughts perishing (dictionary meanings: to be destroyed, ruined, or wiped out; to pass from existence) doesn't mean loss of consciousness. Psalms 146:4 (WEB):

(4) His spirit departs, and he returns to the earth. In that very day, his thoughts perish.​

Hebrews 12:23
To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
To quote the whole sentence - Hebrews 12:22-24 (WEB):

(22) But you have come to Mount Zion, and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable multitudes of angels,​
(23) to the festal gathering and assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,​
(24) to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better than that of Abel.​

He is looking forward to the future when all Christians have been resurrected and are in heaven. He is not claiming that as soon as a Christian dies that he is resurrected and goes to heaven. When he said to those living, that they had come to the heavenly Jerusalem, he was obviously not implying that they were in heaven now, nor was he implying that those that had died were there now. All Christians are resurrected at the same time, in the twinkling of an eye (that's way faster than a blink of an eye!)- 1 Corinthians 15:52 (WEB):

(52) in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed.​

Luke 16:20-27
The story of a rich man and a poor man named Lazarus is a parable, not a real life description of people continuing to live after they've died.

Revelation 19:1-8
Again, it is a revelation of future events that will take place after the first resurrection. It is irrelevant to the state of people who have died before that time, who remain unconscious until they are restored to life at Jesus' coming again.

Taking the whole counsel of the state of the dead, we know the body sleeps in death and the soul and spirit go to be with the Lord.
You seem to be ignoring the plain verses of Scripture about the state of the dead, rather than "taking the whole counsel". The body doesn't sleep - it decomposes back to dust! Death is not life!
 
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Cassandra

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Ecc 9:5,6 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun

Ecc9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
 

Taken

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It is a lake of fire and sulphur. Burning sulphur creates sulphur dioxide which is poisonus and will kill people.From Fire and Brimstone: SO2 as a Chemical Weapon in History:

A Person is a body with it’s soul IN it.
Dead body’s “believers or not” are buried.
Unsaved souls are sent to hell.

Per Judgement Day for a “Dead body and it’s departed Living unsaved soul”;

The body is raised, from the grave, to hell.
The living soul is returned to it’s (natural, ie Not Glorified) body, in hell.
The body, (without it’s BLOOD LIFE), but with it’s living soul IN it, rises up (IN Hell) to stand before the JUDGE, to receive it’s Judgement.
That body, with it’s soul, SEES the Judge, Christ Jesus, and BELIEVES, bows down in Worship to Him. Books of Evidence are opened. Mans Name does not appear. Sentence is carried out.
Life in the Soul, (Gods Breath), returns to God.
Lifeless (No Blood), body…
Lifeless (No Gods Breath), soul…
IS thrown into the “Lake of Fire” thus
DESTROYED.

The Lake of Fire, the Sulfur does NOT KILL the man…
The Lake of Fire, the Sulfur “DESTROYS” the Lifeless…body and Lifeless soul.

Sure we can comprehend the chemical reaction of sulfur, and conclude A dissolving effect. But that is a guesswork of general conclusion of the means the Lord God uses to DESTROY a Lifeless body and Lifeless soul, that it no longer exists in the form it was once created and made.

Point being, you seem to be of the opinion it is the SULFUR that literally KILLS a person.
If that be your point; I disagree.

You can not kill that which IS (without Life).
It is a LIFELESS body and soul that is Destroyed.

Angels ARE Spirits, they CAN NOT Die. Angels thrown into the Lake of Fire, Continue to burn, while LIFE remains IN them.
 

Taken

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That can't be true, because hell is thrown into the lake of fire (symbolically, but you say literally ;)) - Revelation 20:14 (KJV):

(14) And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.​


I do not find an elementary one-liner.
Much of the Knowledge in Scripture is scattered bit by bit, increase by increase…
Thus it requires a study.

For a quick review…Hell has been a place for centuries that “held”, or otherwise was “inhabited”, BY;
Departed Living souls, having been departed OUT OF DEAD Body’s….
Both “SAVED” and “UNSAVED” Souls for an era of 4,000 years…
Thereafter…for the last 2,000 + years, “ONLY UNSAVED” departed souls were “SENT” to Hell.

Point one SHOULD grasp from a Study…IS:
Departed Living Souls…Historically could be SENT TO HELL….AND LEAVE HELL.
( Even After the Killing of Jesus’ body, and men burying Jesus’ body…Jesus’ Departed Living soul, went to Hell…Departed Hell and Returned to His Body. )

Point one SHOULD grasp from a Study…IS:
Departed Living Souls…DID IN FACT go to hell and were able to Leave Hell….

In a point in time (according to Gods Word)…
Hell Itself, SHALL be thrown INTO the Lake of Fire.

Since HELL has historically been and IS a PLACE…that PLACE being thrown into the Lake of Fire, SHOULD notify you, THAT PLACE no longer exists. No longer does a “PLACE”, a “HABITAT”, an “ESTATE” exist for ANY (saved or unsaved) “living departed souls”…

Hell becomes MOOT…unnecessary…
 

Ronald Nolette

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I find it confusing that you don't think that a person's thoughts perishing (dictionary meanings: to be destroyed, ruined, or wiped out; to pass from existence) doesn't mean loss of consciousness. Psalms 146:4 (WEB):

(4) His spirit departs, and he returns to the earth. In that very day, his thoughts perish.
At the time of that writing, many things had not been revealed yet. among them was the tripartite nature of man
To quote the whole sentence - Hebrews 12:22-24 (WEB):

(22) But you have come to Mount Zion, and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable multitudes of angels,(23) to the festal gathering and assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,(24) to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better than that of Abel.
He is looking forward to the future when all Christians have been resurrected and are in heaven. He is not claiming that as soon as a Christian dies that he is resurrected and goes to heaven. When he said to those living, that they had come to the heavenly Jerusalem, he was obviously not implying that they were in heaven now, nor was he implying that those that had died were there now. All Christians are resurrected at the same time, in the twinkling of an eye (that's way faster than a blink of an eye!)- 1 Corinthians 15:52 (WEB):
No, for it is written in the present. Just like thei9s verse is in the present:

Ephesians 2:6
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

There are things that are ture that defy human logic- we must accept them by faith.
The story of a rich man and a poor man named Lazarus is a parable, not a real life description of people continuing to live after they've died.
No. all parables contain a comparative term such as: "such as," like, is as, can be compared to. The Lazarus account names names which no parable does. Jesus also said there was a man, so there was a man.

If it is a parable then please explain the meaning, for Jesus used comparisons of earthly things to describe spiritual things.
Again, it is a revelation of future events that will take place after the first resurrection. It is irrelevant to the state of people who have died before that time, who remain unconscious until they are restored to life at Jesus' coming again.
Wrong this event is shown before the first resurrection. Jesus is not a sloppy inspirer. He has this placed before His return and before the first resurrection, and before the battle of Armageddon. He doesn't need human editors to say He meant to show it was after. He knows that a normal usual reading , a believer would place this before He returns.
You seem to be ignoring the plain verses of Scripture about the state of the dead, rather than "taking the whole counsel". The body doesn't sleep - it decomposes back to dust! Death is not life!
Not in the least.

I take account of when they were written and what had been revealed to that point. I take into account that Paul writes that when one is absent from the body, they are present with the Lord. so a person has more than a body and when they are absent from the body, they are present with the Lord. that is why I knoe that Lazarus is true, Abrahams bosom is true(paradise where the soul+spirit of the penitent thief went with Jesus.

I take into account the church has to pass through the Bema judgment to have each individuals works done in HIs name tried by fire and reward or loss given. that is why iin Rev.19 before Jesus returns shows that teh church is ready and is in heaven.

Also in rev. 19 a great crowd shouts. also the martyred souls of the trib cry out for justice and tolsd to rest- they can't do that if they are nonexistent.
 

Taken

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I don't believe that.

My comment was preceded by “IF”.

You seem to think that God will eternally torture people that he is not happy with,

I didn’t speak to “eternal torture”, or “Gods Happiness.” So not sure how you concluded what “I think”.

God IS JUST. His BIG PICTURE IS simple.
Trust to BELIEVE (Heartfully, being via your natural spirit in your Heart, ie your natural Truth), and Confess your express (“natural Heartful” Truth)….and by, through, of Christ Jesus, Before ones Physical Bodily death, (ie crucified with Jesus) they will be soul save and spirit born again….THEN, while they remain Physically Bodily Alive.

Believe the same in one’s Heart, (but make NO confession)…and at the time OF their Physical Death…AND they DO SO, heartfully Believe…
(God Himself searches their Heart, for WHAT they BELIEVE)…and IF they be discovered they DID Heartfully Believe….THEN at the moment of their Physical Death…their soul is saved and their spirit born again.

Those TWO methods of Salvation have been Revealed IN Scripture and Applied to manKind for Centuries.

The simplicity…regarding an Individual man…
Is effected by the individual man’s OWN FREEWILL….which establishes…the individual’s BELIEVE or REJECTION of BELIEF…period.
 

Taken

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Believing that God will cause millions of people to live forever being tormented in fire profanes the name of God.
.

So? I never said people live forever being tormented.


I most certainly don't think that. Do you really think that for God, out of site is out of mind? Again, I consider that an insult to the good name of God.

that don't come up to His required standards, and then add that He won't go there to watch it happening, even though it will require Him to eternally perform a miracle to make it happen (to continuously burn bodies yet prevent them from being consumed). How can you believe that?

I didn’t say…”won’t GO THERE to WATCH it Happening”…

I said: TO CONCLUDE HIS OWN VICTORY by Remaining present, watching over, observing that which is thrown in the LAKE OF FIRE…past the window/era of redemption.

Remaining is Continuing to WATCH and OBSERVE. No, I do not believe the Lord Remains, Eternally, Continually watching over the Lake of Fire.
 

Taken

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I think I wrote it upthread Do you want me to recopy it?
As for the Rich Man and Lazarus
Jesus is speaking of the Jewish nation---they had Moses and the Prophets, but they didn't pay any attention to them.

Recopy not necessary.

Curious question…regarding the Rich Man and Lazarus, called a Parable.

Do you believe THOSE words of Jesus…
Called a Parable…

ARE in their entirety TRUE Facts…?
Or
An untrue story to illustrate a moral or religious Lesson…?


Glory to God,
Taken
 

Dan Clarkston

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Animals do not need salvation since they are soul and body only and do not liver eternally like man does because man has a spirit having been created in God's image.

Those claiming animals can be saved are wasting everyone's time and are being used by the enemy to create this diversion that takes people away from the things of the Lord.

You know, your pet died... boo hoo hoo, now get over it... the pet is gone so go get you a new one!



Believing that God will cause millions of people to live forever being tormented in fire profanes the name of God.

Saying cessationism is true is calling Jesus Christ a liar!
 

keithr

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You can not kill that which IS (without Life).
It is a LIFELESS body and soul that is Destroyed.
A lifeless body returns back to dust. Why would God bother to destroy something that is lifeless? How is that a punishment?

Revelation 20:15 (WEB):
(15) If anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.​

How do you get from the above verse that the living person, "he", is separated from from his human body and and only his lifeless body is thrown into the fire? If a person is not written in the book of life how can he continue to have life?

Angels ARE Spirits, they CAN NOT Die.
Where in Scripture does it say that angels are immortal? Paul said that it used to be that only God was immortal - 1 Timothy 6:16 (WEB):

(16) who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light; whom no man has seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and eternal power. Amen.​

but that Jesus revealed the possibility of humans (Christians only) becoming immortal (when they are resurrected in the future) - 2 Timothy 1:10 (WEB):

(10) ... our Savior, Christ Jesus, who abolished death, and brought life and immortality to light through the Good News.​

You've written a lot of gobbledygook without a single reference or quote from the Bible, so not only is it difficult to understand what you have written, but you offer no Biblical support to what you claim, so anybody would be foolish to believe anything you write. And yet you haven't answered the simple, short questions that I've asked, like (from post #245) where does it say in the Bible that "spiritual death" "simply means SEPARATION from God"? Where in the Bible does it say anything about being separated from God?

Death means no life, not continuing to live "spiritually" separated from God. Jesus said, Matthew 7:13-14 (WEB):

(13) “Enter in by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter in by it.​
(14) How narrow is the gate, and restricted is the way that leads to life! Few are those who find it.​

i.e. the narrow path leads to eternal life, the broad path leads to destruction - to no life at all for eternity.

You also say "Hell Itself, SHALL be thrown INTO the Lake of Fire", after you had said (in post #243) that the lake of fire "is an eternal FIRE IN Hell". How can hell, which you say contains the lake of fire, be thrown into the lake of fire? That's nonsense! You're making confusing statements with no Biblical evidence - like a wolf in sheep's clothing! Matthew 7:15 (WEB):

(15) “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravening wolves.​
 

keithr

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At the time of that writing, many things had not been revealed yet. among them was the tripartite nature of man
2 Timothy 3:16 (TLV):

(16) All Scripture is inspired by God and useful for teaching, for reproof, for restoration, and for training in righteousness,​

No, for it is written in the present. Just like thei9s {this?} verse is in the present:

Ephesians 2:6
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Just because it is written in the present tense, to indicate it is a done deal, doesn't mean that it is literally referring to the present time and not to the promised future events. It takes only a tiny amount of common sense to realise that the early Christians, and us today, are not in the heavenly Jerusalem or in heavenly places. He meant that because of our belief in the Gospel we are reckoned as citizens of the heavenly Jerusalem, and we will one day (after our resurrection) reside there. Similarly, Philippians 3:20-21 (WEB):

(20) For our citizenship is in heaven, from where we also wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;​
(21) who will change the body of our humiliation to be conformed to the body of his glory, according to the working by which he is able even to subject all things to himself.​

We will reside in heaven but we have to wait for Jesus to return and resurrect/change us to have a similar spiritual body to his. Only then is it possible for us to get into heaven, for it is a spiritual place, not part of the physical universe in which we currently live.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (WEB):
(16) For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with God’s trumpet. The dead in Christ will rise first,​
(17) then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. So we will be with the Lord forever.

1 Corinthians 15:50 (WEB):
(50) Now I say this, brothers, that flesh and blood can’t inherit God’s Kingdom; neither does the perishable inherit imperishable.​

We can only inherit, and share in God's heavenly kingdom, after we have been changed, and not while we are still flesh and blood (human).

There are things that are ture that defy human logic- we must accept them by faith.
They only defy logic if you don't understand them. You've misunderstood what Paul wrote.

No. all parables contain a comparative term such as: "such as," like, is as, can be compared to. The Lazarus account names names which no parable does.
Where in the rule book of parables does it say that nobody in a parable story is allowed to have a name? I can give you an example - Luke 16:19-31!

Jesus also said there was a man, so there was a man.
Yes, he said, Luke 16:19 (WEB):

(19) “Now there was a certain rich man, and he was clothed in purple and fine linen, living in luxury every day.​

Just like in other parables, e.g. :

Luke 12:16 (WEB):
(16) He spoke a parable to them, saying, “The ground of a certain rich man produced abundantly.​
Luke 16:1 (WEB):
(1) He also said to his disciples, “There was a certain rich man who had a manager. An accusation was made to him that this man was wasting his possessions.​

They were not real men - Jesus made up the story!

If it is a parable then please explain the meaning, for Jesus used comparisons of earthly things to describe spiritual things.
It's too lengthy to go into it in detail here. The context is that he was talking to the Pharisees - Luke 16:14-15 (WEB):

(14) The Pharisees, who were lovers of money, also heard all these things, and they scoffed at him.​
(15) He said to them, “You are those who justify yourselves in the sight of men, but God knows your hearts. For that which is exalted among men is an abomination in the sight of God.​

As Barnes Notes says:

The “design” of the narrative is to be collected from the previous conversation. He had taught the danger of the love of money Luk_16:1-2; the deceitful and treacherous nature of riches Luk_16:9-11; that what was in high esteem on earth was hateful to God Luk_16:15; that people who did not use their property aright could not be received into heaven Luk_16:11-12; that they ought to listen to Moses and the prophets Luk_16:16-17; and that it was the duty of people to show kindness to the poor. The design of the parable was to impress all these truths more vividly on the mind, and to show the Pharisees that, with all their boasted righteousness and their external correctness of character, they might be lost.​

Wrong this event is shown before the first resurrection. Jesus is not a sloppy inspirer. He has this placed before His return and before the first resurrection, and before the battle of Armageddon. He doesn't need human editors to say He meant to show it was after. He knows that a normal usual reading , a believer would place this before He returns.
Christians, represented symbolically in Revelation by the 24 elders, have been resurrected and are up in heaven in chapter 4. They witness Jesus take the book (scroll) from the hand of God and open the seven seals, and the events that follow. Chapter 19 is one of the events that follow. It describes the 24 elders (resurrected Christians) in heaven before God's throne, and then of the marriage supper of Jesus and the Church. Jesus doesn't marry his bride and then return to the earth for his bride. This is clearly describing events after the resurrection of the Church.

I take into account that Paul writes that when one is absent from the body, they are present with the Lord.
You obviously don't understand there's a long unconscious sleep (death) in between the two. He does not say that as soon as we die that we are given our new body; he merely states that we will be given a new body, which he elsewhere states occurs in the future, at the first resurrection. All Christians are resurrected and caught up to be with Jesus as the same time, so clearly we are not resurrected at the moment that we die. But as death is an unconscious sleep, our next conscious thought after our death will be when we are resurrected, so it will seem to us like going to sleep at night and then waking in the morning; we won't have to endure waiting around for hundreds of years. But it is evident that while we are in our human body that we are absent from being with Jesus. Being with Jesus is a future event that we look forward to, which wil occur after the resurrection of the body of Christ (the Church).

2 Corinthians 5:1-9 (WEB):
(1) For we know that if the earthly house of our tent is dissolved, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal, in the heavens.​
(2) For most certainly in this we groan, longing to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven;​
(3) if so be that being clothed we will not be found naked.​
(4) For indeed we who are in this tent do groan, being burdened; not that we desire to be unclothed, but that we desire to be clothed, that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life.​
(5) Now he who made us for this very thing is God, who also gave to us the down payment of the Spirit.​
(6) Therefore we are always confident and know that while we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord;​
(7) for we walk by faith, not by sight.​
(8) We are courageous, I say, and are willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be at home with the Lord.​
(9) Therefore also we make it our aim, whether at home or absent, to be well pleasing to him.​

so a person has more than a body and when they are absent from the body, they are present with the Lord. that is why I knoe that Lazarus is true, Abrahams bosom is true(paradise where the soul+spirit of the penitent thief went with Jesus.
But in the parable the poor man, Lazarus (which means, 'whom God helps'), was not in heaven with Jesus. He was within earshot of the rich man who was in hell. He was with Abraham, not Jesus.

Also in rev. 19 a great crowd shouts. also the martyred souls of the trib cry out for justice and tolsd to rest- they can't do that if they are nonexistent.
That does not occur in chapter 19, it happens after the fifth seal is opened - the Church has already been resurrected before any seals are opened. Don't forget that it is symbolic, just as Abel's blood calling to God was symbolic, not real - Genesis 4:10 (WEB):

(10) Yahweh said, “What have you done? The voice of your brother’s blood cries to me from the ground.​
 
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Taken

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You've written a lot of gobbledygook without a single reference or quote from the Bible, so not only is it difficult to understand what you have written, but you offer no Biblical support to what you claim, so anybody would be foolish to believe anything you write.

Knowledge comes from Gods Word.
You Hear, YOU go search the Scriptures to see IF that what you hear is TRUE!

Why expect me to SEARCH the Scriptures FOR you?

Acts 17:
[11] These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Understanding OF the Word of God Comes from God. God who is SPIRIT, gives the born again spirit of man, Gods Spiritual UNDERSTANDING of HIS WORD.

Why have an expectation of Gods UNdERSTANDING, to come to YOU from me?
I am NOT God!

If a man IS NOT “with” God…Ya think, God gives that man Gods Understanding?

1 Cor 2:
[14] But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned


…..where does it say in the Bible that "spiritual death" "simply means SEPARATION from God"? Where in the Bible does it say anything about being separated from God?

Matt. 12:
[30] He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

Mortal Death…is Death of the BODY.
Spiritual Death…is separation from God.
Man IS CONCEIVED, IN SIN, via a mans Seed.
Man IS naturally born, IN SIN, Without God.
Ya think a mortal man CONCEIVED SIN and BORN in SIN…is “WITH” God? :rolleyes:

Man HAS the OFFERING (from God), to become MADE WITH God (by, through, of the Power of God).

Do you NOT KNOW…it is the ALIVE NATURAL LIVING MORTAL MAN…who is spiritually DEAD…BECAUSE he is NOT WITH God?


Do you NOT KNOW…even a man and a woman…who EACH Rejects the OTHER are “NOT one WITH” the Other….but are:
SEPARATED” ?

God IS LIFE….Expressly GOD IS SPIRIT LIFE…IF a man IS SEPARATED FROM GOD…
What “SPIRIT LIFE”, is ALIVE in that (mortal ALIVE BODY) of man, who HAS NOT SPIRIT LIFE, from God?

Why DOES Scripture call a Flesh ALIVE man, (WHO IS not forgiven his SIN)…..DEAD?

Col 2:
[13] And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

You can not, will not UNDERSTAND Spiritual things, by complaining SPIRITUAL UNDERSTANDING, does not make sense to your Carnal Mind.

You want UNDERSTANDING to satisfy your Carnal Mind?
Here ya go…God SAID SO.
Want to Know WHERE God SAID SO?
IN Scripture.
Want to know WHERE in Scripture.
You read and search the Scriptures.
Then YOU Decide to BELIEVE the Scriptures …OR NOT.
Believe it and want Gods Spiritual UNDERSTANDING?
Go to the SOURCE….GOD…and ASK HIM for His UNDERSTANDING.
Don’t know “IF” God will Hear you/ Answer you?

Hint, Hint…He will NOT, “IF” you are NOT WITH Him.
Want to KNOW HOW TO BE “WITH” God, and God “WITH” you?
Again…go READ, STUDY, LEARN exactly How God OFFERS mankind the OPTION to be WITH Him…and He WITH you.
Again…that KNOWLEDGE IS IN SCRIPTURE!

Absolutely…conversing with a person about Spiritual things, who is not spiritually discerned…with be received as gobbledygook.

Thanks for sharing, you do NOT understand…Read, study, Learn…WHY.

Your quoting of Scripture to disregard false prophets….”not believe them”….is TRUE…
Your implication, that applies to me…BECAUSE YOU FAIL TO UNDERSTAND…is FALSE.

I never claimed to be a prophet.
I never explored you to believe me.
Go READ the Scriptures FOR YOURSELF…
You decide IF YOU believe Gods Word …
Or NOT.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

keithr

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Why expect me to SEARCH the Scriptures FOR you?
Because you're the one that's writing things contradicting what I wrote and what I believe the Scriptures say. If you want to convince me (and others) that you are right then you need to show us the Biblical evidence. Just saying something without proof is useless and possibly deceiving. You need to show us the Bible verses that you think support what you are saying, because as is often the case people misunderstand what is written in the Bible, taking verses out of context and making incorrect assumptions.

1 Peter 3:15 (WEB):
(15) But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts; and always be ready to give an answer to everyone who asks you a reason concerning the hope that is in you, with humility and fear:​

Saying to someone, search the Bible yourself to see if what I say is right, is not giving an answer to why you believe what you believe.

Acts 17:
[11] These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
I've searched the Scriptures and could not find support for what you wrote. It's up to you to show me where you find support for what you wrote, otherwise you will not convince me or anybody else who reads what you wrote. Only fools blindly believe what others say without evidence to support what they are saying; that's why Paul commended the Bereans for not believing what people taught until after they had found support for those teachings in the Scriptures, or at least confirming that what was taught was not contradictory to the Scriptures. So we should include Biblical support with what we write, just as it descibes Paul doing in the same chapter - Acts 17:2 (WEB):

(2) And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

Why have an expectation of Gods UNdERSTANDING, to come to YOU from me?
I've read enough of your mangled, disjointed English already to not expect much understanding to come from you! :rolleyes:

Matt. 12:
[30] He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
That is not Biblical support for "spiritual death is separation from God". It's about whether or not a person works with Jesus. Jesus was answering the Pharisees accusation that he was working in league with Beelzebub, the prince of the devils. Jesus argued that if Satan casts out Satan then he is divided against himself and Satan's kingdom will not stand. He was saying that he had not united with Satan, but opposed him, so there couldn't be any league between them. The verse is saying nothing about death or separation from anybody.

If that is the best verse of Scripture that you can come up with, and it is irrelevant to your claim, then you are foolish to believe that "spiritual death is separation from God"!

Mortal Death…is Death of the BODY.
The word mortal means being subject to death, that which must eventually die. The expression "mortal death" therefore doesn't make sense. So scratch the word mortal and you have written "death is death of the body".

Spiritual Death…is separation from God.
You keep stating that, but you still haven't shown any Scritural support for that, nor defined what you mean by "spiritual death".

Why DOES Scripture call a Flesh ALIVE man, (WHO IS not forgiven his SIN)…..DEAD?

Col 2:
[13] And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
John 5:24 (WEB):
(24) “Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn’t come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

If we believe in Jesus and God, and believe their words, then we are reckoned to have eternal life, and will have eternal life if we remain faithful until we die. God forgives us for our sins and reckons us to have eternal life with Jesus, and He will give us eternal life in the first resurrection. Otherwise we will not yet have gained the right to eternal life, and we are reckoned as dead. Such will be resurrected in the second, general, resurrection, and will have an opportunity to gain eternal life during the 1,000 year reign of Christ, but until they pass that trial they are reckoned as still being destined for eternal death (hence Revelation 20:5 says, "The rest of the dead didn’t live until the thousand years were finished").

I never explored you to believe me.
What on earth does that mean? (More gobbledygook!)

Go READ the Scriptures FOR YOURSELF…
I have and I do. And what you have written is not in harmony with the Scriptures!
 
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