Salvation really?

[TruthSeeker2012]

Jesus de-sacrelized the world by bringing true holiness. Nothing is holy of itself. So a rock can no longer be called holy. You are stuck in a world that excludes the present reality. In Christ everything becomes holy. That is to the one who is in Him.

Episkopos, you are teaching a Catholicism definition for "holy" who teaches that holy means "pure" etc.

But Holy in Bible can mean SEPARATE! For example the Holy Mountain was separate from all the other mountains, the Sabbath day is Holy because it's separate from all the other days. The day is the same as all the other days per se, but God has separated it from the other 6 days and asks His children to keep it set aside for Him.

Ask your Pastor, unless his Catholic, to explain it to you. Or better yet, do a internet word search through the entire Bible and study every place the word Holy appears and read those verses to get a proper understanding what Holy can mean in Scripture.

And may I ask you to answer this question: Can a person who says they have faith in Jesus and are saved by faith + grace, be doing God's Will, be saved, inherit eternal life and be accepted by God if they refuse to repent of their sins and continue to willfully commit sins like adultery and stealing? Yes or No?

God bless.

 

[Rach1370]

Now, where have I read this before not once, not twice, not three times but umpteen times.

Take this advice even if you ignore mine. The fire will go out if you don't put wood on it.

Hey guys. This is one of the funniest posts I have done. It is the gospel according to truth seeker (sic) makes for interesting reading don't you think. Not one entry has been invented. All genuine TS comments, even those repeated 30times. Perhaps we could start a poll and ask the question HOW MANY THINK THAT TRUTH SEEKER(SIC) IS A BIT SOFT IN THE HEAD?

then answer me this question...

I have some questions for you:

Do you willfully break this Commandment?

Do you willfully break this Commandment?

Do you willfully break this Commandment?

Do you willfully break this Commandment?

Do you willfully break this Commandment?

Do you willfully break this Commandment?

Do you willfully break this Commandment?

Do you willfully break this Commandment?

Do you willfully break this Commandment?

My intuition told me that you would run and hide from my questions, because you don't want to answer my questions

I KNEW you would sidestep and run and hide.

As soon as I ask too hard and too challenging questions that you realise will contradict your statements, you run and hide

As soon as I ask too hard and too challenging questions that you realise will contradict your statements, you run and hide

debating is only for the humble and strong who can handle it without running off and hiding.

You have falsely accused me yet again

Show me any question you have asked me and I will answer it as I have always done.

I have never left a question unanswered, so please for your own sake, stop making false accusations against thy neighbour.

Ask me any question about salvation, and then answer all my questions.

Fair is fair, so stop sidestepping and trying to change topics.

Stop being afraid to answer my questions.

Please answer this question

Please answer this question

can you please address this

Do you willfully break this Commandment and believe we are free to willfully disobey this Commandment under the New Covenant?

Do you willfully break this Commandment and believe we are free to willfully disobey this Commandment under the New Covenant?

Do you willfully break this Commandment and believe we are free to willfully disobey this Commandment under the New Covenant?

Do you willfully break this Commandment and believe we are free to willfully disobey this Commandment under the New Covenant?

Do you willfully break this Commandment and believe we are free to willfully disobey this Commandment under the New Covenant?

Do you willfully break this Commandment and believe we are free to willfully disobey this Commandment under the New Covenant?

Do you willfully break this Commandment and believe we are free to willfully disobey this Commandment under the New Covenant?

Do you willfully break this Commandment and believe we are free to willfully disobey this Commandment under the New Covenant?

Do you willfully break this Commandment and believe we are free to willfully disobey this Commandment under the New Covenant?

So instead of once again sidestepping my question, just please give a direct answer

I have always answered every question

but he refuses to answer my questions because my questions frighten him, so this is part of his revenge on me by trying to turn others against me

God knows and I encourage you to repent of your hatred for me
you sidestepped my question AGAIN. When will I get an answer from you?

Firstly, let me address your erroneous and false accusations against Jesus

Now...please also answer my original questions that you sidestepped..

you did the famous sidestep shuffle again, why is that?

Why are you so frightened to give me a direct answer?

Why do you use the old "red flag" excuse strategy to run and hide from my question?

Why is every single person on this forum so frightened to go through these and answer honestly?

Not a single person has been brave enough to answer these.

<--- Do you willfully break this Commandment and believe we are free to willfully disobey this Commandment under the New Covenant? Yes or No?

<--- Do you willfully break this Commandment and believe we are free to willfully disobey this Commandment under the New Covenant? Yes or No?

<--- Do you willfully break this Commandment and believe we are free to willfully disobey this Commandment under the New Covenant? Yes or No?

<--- Do you willfully break this Commandment and believe we are free to willfully disobey this Commandment under the New Covenant? Yes or No?

<--- Do you willfully break this Commandment and believe we are free to willfully disobey this Commandment under the New Covenant? Yes or No?

<--- Do you willfully break this Commandment and believe we are free to willfully disobey this Commandment under the New Covenant? Yes or No?

<--- Do you willfully break this Commandment and believe we are free to willfully disobey this Commandment under the New Covenant? Yes or No?

<--- Do you willfully break this Commandment and believe we are free to willfully disobey this Commandment under the New Covenant? Yes or No?

<--- Do you willfully break this Commandment and believe we are free to willfully disobey this Commandment under the New Covenant? Yes or No?

<--- Do you willfully break this Commandment and believe we are free to willfully disobey this Commandment under the New Covenant? Yes or No?

can I please ask you a question as I am interested in your answer.

please leave the personal attacks out of it, please only focus on the topic.

Now...let me explain and clarify

So tell me, which of the 10 Commandments do you believe we are free to willfully break?

And I better explain Col 2 to you as well as you have completely misunderstood it.

The truly entertaining bit comes when you realise just how many of ^^^^^ those comments come after someone has answered his questions! So funny!

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

The truly entertaining bit comes when you realise just how many of ^^^^^ those comments come after someone has answered his questions! So funny!

Rach, now that you have had your entertainment at my expense and making fun off me and mocking me, can I please ask you to answer this question for me, which is back on topic.

Can a person who says they have faith in Jesus and are saved by faith + grace, be doing God's Will, be saved, inherit eternal life and be accepted by God if they refuse to repent of their sins and continue to willfully commit sins like adultery and stealing? Yes or No?

God bless.

 

[Episkopos]

Episkopos, you are teaching a Catholicism definition for "holy" who teaches that holy means "pure" etc.

But Holy in Bible can mean SEPARATE! For example the Holy Mountain was separate from all the other mountains, the Sabbath day is Holy because it's separate from all the other days. The day is the same as all the other days per se, but God has separated it from the other 6 days and asks His children to keep it set aside for Him.

Ask your Pastor, unless his Catholic, to explain it to you. Or better yet, do a internet word search through the entire Bible and study every place the word Holy appears and read those verses to get a proper understanding what Holy can mean in Scripture.

And may I ask you to answer this question: Can a person who says they have faith in Jesus and are saved by faith + grace, be doing God's Will, be saved, inherit eternal life and be accepted by God if they refuse to repent of their sins and continue to willfully commit sins like adultery and stealing? Yes or No?

God bless.

It is not what a person says about themselves or thinks or believes about God that carries any weight. Does the person who thinks they are Christian walk in the power of Christ? Or not?

Trying to not be a sinner is just another form of sinning. Especially when we consider that Jesus Christ has provided a new life where ALL THINGS are become new. The new Covenant is come.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

It is not what a person says about themselves or thinks or believes about God that carries any weight. Does the person who thinks they are Christian walk in the power of Christ? Or not?

Trying to not be a sinner is just another form of sinning. Especially when we consider that Jesus Christ has provided a new life where ALL THINGS are become new. The new Covenant is come.

Episkopos, once I came to Christ 12 years ago, and began thinking and believing about God and who He is etc, it carried a lot of weight in my life and helped carry me emotionally, psychologically and spiritually and helped me immensely to turn away from my sins, and I was at that stage living a very evil sinful life. You can read my testimony if you want which will help you understand where I came from before I came to Christ.

So I believe that once I began to think as myself a Christian, I began having power from the Holy Spirit to walk in Christ's footsteps more than I ever could without it. It's made a huge impact on me and I really needed that help as I suffer from psychological damage and illness from what I did in my life before I became a Christian.

You can read my testimony here if you want:

http://www.biblejesu...g/about-me.html

God bless.

 

[Episkopos]

Episkopos, once I came to Christ 12 years ago, and began thinking and believing about God and who He is etc, it carried a lot of weight in my life and helped carry me emotionally, psychologically and spiritually and helped me immensely to turn away from my sins, and I was at that stage living a very evil sinful life. You can read my testimony if you want which will help you understand where I came from before I came to Christ.

So I believe that once I began to think as myself a Christian, I began having power from the Holy Spirit to walk in Christ's footsteps more than I ever could without it. It's made a huge impact on me and I really needed that help as I suffer from psychological damage and illness from what I did in my life before I became a Christian.

You can read my testimony here if you want:

http://www.biblejesu...g/about-me.html

God bless.

Becoming a Christian in modern culture is not the same as abiding in Christ. When we abide in Christ we cannot sin because it is no longer we who are doing the living...it is Christ in us.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Becoming a Christian in modern culture is not the same as abiding in Christ. When we abide in Christ we cannot sin because it is no longer we who are doing the living...it is Christ in us.

So you never sin anymore, ever?

God bless.

 

[Episkopos]

So you never sin anymore, ever?

God bless.

I never said that. Abiding in Christ does this.

What commandment (s) do you willfully break?

I like this statement...

"The Law helps us recognize our condition because it gives us a tangible standard that our dead beings can actually understand."

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

I never said that. Abiding in Christ does this.

What commandment (s) do you willfully break?

I like this statement...

"The Law helps us recognize our condition because it gives us a tangible standard that our dead beings can actually understand."

But what then did you mean when you said, "When we abide in Christ we cannot sin because it is no longer we who are doing the living"? Can you please clarify and explain and elaborate what you meant by that statement and when you said "we cannot sin.."?

And to answer your question, I do not willfully break any of God's 10 Commandments, do you?

God bless.

 

[Episkopos]

But what then did you mean when you said, "When we abide in Christ we cannot sin because it is no longer we who are doing the living"? Can you please clarify and explain and elaborate what you meant by that statement and when you said "we cannot sin.."?

And to answer your question, I do not willfully break any of God's 10 Commandments, do you?

God bless.

Talk to a pastor...

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Talk to a pastor...

I don't want a Pastors answer, I want your answer Episkopos. Can you please answer my questions?

God bless.

 

[goodshepard55]

Let see truthseeker....hmmmmm.....so do you stone people for not keeping the sabbath Holy? Darling I do not sin ....Jesus died for my sins ...ALL of them....past ..present...future...He does not codemn me for what I do or don't do...in fact in Jesus I have Freedom to be me, whom He has created...He loves me warts and all...I am righteous because He says I am righteous...I am perfect in the eyes of Jesus...LOL...I do love it when people try to condemn others for their beliefs, instead of removing the tree from their own eyes...so blessings to you and I see what you are, so just so you know darling, that spiritual pride will be so heavy you will not walk in the freedom you have....You are so fast to try to be so righteous, but there is only one way...That is with the truth of what Jesus did for you...He cleansed you when He got on the cross, He was the sacafice that God called for in the OT...The goat is not needed anymore to carry my sins or any others sins out of the city...before the lamb was slaughtered.....Jesus carried them to the cross...Jesus was the perfect Lamb of God that shed His blood for me...If fact...get this...did not Jesus die for the sins of the World?.....If so then sin ceased on the cross...it is only sins when we make them a sin....Chew on that awhile and tell me how wrong I am and so unrighteous and so filled with crap....Love you Truthseeker.....May God invade your heart and open it up to the Truth of Him...May the Holy Spirit fill you with fire and cleanse the lies of the enemy from your heart....

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Let see truthseeker....hmmmmm.....so do you stone people for not keeping the sabbath Holy? Darling I do not sin ....Jesus died for my sins ...ALL of them....past ..present...future...He does not codemn me for what I do or don't do...in fact in Jesus I have Freedom to be me, whom He has created...He loves me warts and all...I am righteous because He says I am righteous...I am perfect in the eyes of Jesus...LOL...I do love it when people try to condemn others for their beliefs, instead of removing the tree from their own eyes...so blessings to you and I see what you are, so just so you know darling, that spiritual pride will be so heavy you will not walk in the freedom you have....You are so fast to try to be so righteous, but there is only one way...That is with the truth of what Jesus did for you...He cleansed you when He got on the cross, He was the sacafice that God called for in the OT...The goat is not needed anymore to carry my sins or any others sins out of the city...before the lamb was slaughtered.....Jesus carried them to the cross...Jesus was the perfect Lamb of God that shed His blood for me...If fact...get this...did not Jesus die for the sins of the World?.....If so then sin ceased on the cross...it is only sins when we make them a sin....Chew on that awhile and tell me how wrong I am and so unrighteous and so filled with crap....Love you Truthseeker.....May God invade your heart and open it up to the Truth of Him...May the Holy Spirit fill you with fire and cleanse the lies of the enemy from your heart....

1. The 10 Commandments do not order me to stone anyone for breaking the Sabbath. But if someone wants to willfully break the 4th Sabbath Commandment, then they are willfully breaking Heb 4:9 and will answer to God for their willful sinning.

2. Amen, once we come to Christ by faith, we are counted as righteous and perfect because we are "In Christ" and imputed and credited with Jesus' righteousness and perfection. So even though we realistically sin, in God's eyes we do not sin and have been justified which means "Just as if we had never sinned". Is that why you say you never sin, for if that is the reason then I agree with you.

3. Who has condemned you for your beliefs, certainly not me, as I have never condenmed you for being lost, only God knows that. But I do know that if a person willfully sins, that they are not doing God's will, and if someone is not doing God's will, they will never inherit heaven, Matthew 7:21.

4. I have no spiritual pride, in fact due to humility I fell at the feet of Jesus 12 years ago and asked for forgiveness and mercy and grace. However, once I was saved, I do not willfully break God's 10 Commandments, do you?

5. Do you believe a person can inherit eternal life and do God's will if they continue to willfully break any of God's 10 Commandments? Yes or No?

6. Amen, I 100% agree with you, through Jesus' blood I am saved. But my point is once we are saved, should we not keep God's Commandments and be obedient? Yes or No? Or do you believe that once we are saved by Jesus' righteousness and blood that we should now willfully begin breaking God's 10 Commandments? Yes or No?

7. I love you too, and I only mean well, and I hope to meet you one day in heaven

God bless.

 

[goodshepard55]

When we walk in Christ the ten are no longer there...we walk in His ways..I do not live under the law...too time consuming to worry about...I walk with Jesus...Never give the ten a thought...when we do it takes us from Christ and His thoughts

 

[Episkopos]

I don't want a Pastors answer, I want your answer Episkopos. Can you please answer my questions?

God bless.

You have yet only scratched the surface of what Christianity is...and gone down a rabbit trail that denies the power of the gospel. We cannot have more than one focus. If you are focused on laws you cannot be focused on Christ. Only Christ fulfills the law. If we abide in Christ He fulfills the law through us. The law is there to show up a walk that is without Christ.

The end of the matter is this...the law is for those who are without Christ. A saint is one who is being perfected through the Spirit.

When we walk in Christ the ten are no longer there...we walk in His ways..I do not live under the law...too time consuming to worry about...I walk with Jesus...Never give the ten a thought...when we do it takes us from Christ and His thoughts

Exactly! This is a Christian understanding.

 

[Jake]

Jake, you did the famous sidestep shuffle again, why is that? Why are you so frightened to give me a direct answer? Why do you use the old "red flag" excuse strategy to run and hide from my question?
Thank you Jake.

God bless.

Because your question doesn't make any sense to me.

God places His Spirit within us, which gives us the power to obey Him, as we follow the Spirit we are able to obey God perfectly and the requirement of the law is met in us, it's like we are set free to obey. I follow the Spirit and not the law, there is no power in the law. Following the law leads to death, but the Spirit gives life.

peace-

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

When we walk in Christ the ten are no longer there...we walk in His ways..I do not live under the law...too time consuming to worry about...I walk with Jesus...Never give the ten a thought...when we do it takes us from Christ and His thoughts

But Shep, you do not willfully break any of God's 10 Commandments on your natural walk after Jesus, do you? It comes naturally to walk in loving obedience and keeping God's Commandments, wouldn't you agree?

God bless.

You have yet only scratched the surface of what Christianity is...and gone down a rabbit trail that denies the power of the gospel. We cannot have more than one focus. If you are focused on laws you cannot be focused on Christ. Only Christ fulfills the law. If we abide in Christ He fulfills the law through us. The law is there to show up a walk that is without Christ.

The end of the matter is this...the law is for those who are without Christ. A saint is one who is being perfected through the Spirit.
.....

1. I agree, the more I read my Bible the more I realise how little I know. Don't you agree? Or do you believe you have already reached perfect and complete interpretation and perfect understanding of entire Scripture?

2. What power of the Gospel have I denied? List exactly what you mean? I teach and preach the gospel of justification and salvation by faith + grace alone. However, ONCE SAVED, I teach that God writes His law on our hearts and we walk in obedience out of love and gratitude and from the new heart God has given us. Do you disagree with this Gospel that I teach? Yes or No? If yes, then please show me my error using Scripture.

3. I focus on Jesus and the obedience comes naturally because God has changed me. Before I came to Christ I had no conscience about obedience or Jesus, but now I do and I lovingly obey Jesus naturally, it comes naturally. Doesn't that happen to you as well? Has God written His Law on your heart? Yes or No?

4. You then ended your comments by saying, "the law is for those who are without Christ", so I want to ask you to explain these verses to me and contextualize them for me please:

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

There Jesus says He came to fulfill the law, however, He also said he had not come to destroy it. What did Jesus mean by that?

Luke 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

Acts 6:13 And set up false witnesses, which said, This man ceaseth not to speak blasphemous words against this holy place, and the law:

Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets

Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Romans 7:1 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.


Hebrews 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

Episkopos, what LAW does God write on our hearts?

Now don't forget, I am NOT saying we are under or saved by the Law, I am saying once we are saved by faith + grace, shouldn't we keep the Law? Yes or No? Or should we willfully break the Law once saved? Yes or No?

God bless.

 

[Episkopos]

But Shep, you do not willfully break any of God's 10 Commandments on your natural walk after Jesus, do you? It comes naturally to walk in loving obedience and keeping God's Commandments, wouldn't you agree?

God bless.



1. I agree, the more I read my Bible the more I realise how little I know. Don't you agree? Or do you believe you have already reached perfect and complete interpretation and perfect understanding of entire Scripture?

2. What power of the Gospel have I denied? List exactly what you mean? I teach and preach the gospel of justification and salvation by faith + grace alone. However, ONCE SAVED, I teach that God writes His law on our hearts and we walk in obedience out of love and gratitude and from the new heart God has given us. Do you disagree with this Gospel that I teach? Yes or No?

3. I focus on Jesus and the obedience comes naturally because God has changed me. Before I came to Christ I had no conscience about obedience or Jesus, but now I do and I lovingly obey Jesus naturally, it comes naturally. Doesn't that happen to you as well? Has God written His Law on your heart? Yes or No?

4. You then ended your comments by saying, "the law is for those who are without Christ", so I want to ask you to explain these verses to me and contextualize them for me please:

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

There Jesus says He came to fulfill the law, however, He also said he had not come to destroy it. What did Jesus mean by that?

Luke 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

Acts 6:13 And set up false witnesses, which said, This man ceaseth not to speak blasphemous words against this holy place, and the law:

Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets

Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Romans 7:1 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.


Hebrews 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

Episkopos, what LAW does God write on our hearts?

Now don't forget, I am NOT saying we are under or saved by the Law, I am saying once we are saved by faith + grace, shouldn't we keep the Law? Yes or No? Or should we willfully break the Law once saved? Yes or No?

God bless.

Those who seek to fulfill the law themselves are not in Christ. Or else they have fallen from His grace.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Those who seek to fulfill the law themselves are not in Christ. Or else they have fallen from His grace.

But Episkoposm you failed to answer all my questions and you didn't explain all those verses to me and contextualize them for me.

Don't you want to debate these verses with me, one by one and don't you want to answer ALL my questions?

May I remind you this is a Debate Christian Forum, so why did you not address any of my questions and verses individually so we can debate them, one by one?

God bless.

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

After I put on my all cotton robe, I was standing in the mirror brushing the uncut hair on the sides of my head, and brushing my beard, I pondered about the Law. I continued thinking and praying as I tied on my phylacteries, and sat down for some Matza soup seasoned with kosher salt. I was thankful that the Lord sacrificed Himself for us. As I was preparing my meals for the Sabbath, I realized something.

The LAW! Ah, it's not abolished. It can't be abolished, and Paul said, "Yea, we establish the Law". This makes sense. Because, simply put, if the Law were abolished, there could be no atonement for sin. Jesus would've died for nothing. If the Law is abolished, there would be nothing to fullfill.

With this revelation, It's going to take me some time to warm up to a poly cotton blend, and I've always wondered what a porkchop tasted like.